144 réponses à ce sujet

[VelvetV]

I have an issue, though, there's no party banter in my game anymore. They kept chattering like chatterboxes before that, but now suddenly everyone is silent. I heard that such a glitch happens to some people, but I never thought my game would glitch like that after everything was alright for so long

 

Replying to myself, because that's just too funny. I just tried out all listed methods of curing a no banter bug. They didn't help. What helped is when I painfully recollected what I changed when banter disappeared and remembered that I changed the horse. I went back to Skyhold, chose a Ferelden horse, and once I mounted\dismounted, Solas and Vivienne immediately started to talk.

 

I don't know if that's a coincidence or not, but I won't be using other horses no more. A Ferelden one for the win!

[VelvetV]

Human always  fear anything different of them or think in another way ... 
you impose him to leave like you wish , to be more like you 
while he always been a spirit , he should  remain what he is and not what you want him to be 
humans are so selfish 

 

There can be a lot of reasons, not just human superiority. For me, although ultimately I chose the spirit path, human path makes sense because I still think it's a better way to help people, with more understanding. Another reason would be if you read Asunder before playing the game, not after, I imagine you'd make him human, since it was his desire in the book to be human and he feared being a spirit. First impression is usually strong, and among differences between book and game, one would stick to the book desire if it was read first, I think. And some just don't trust demons in any shape or form and make him into a human to control him, there was a funny post in this thread from such a person.

[Qun00]

The choice for Cole's future is indeed difficult although it has been very clear to me I'd choose the "human" way, right from the start.

I read Asunder (and loved it!) after playing DA:I just to learn more about Cole who's my favourite character. And it seemed to me, just as someone said, in the book he acted like a lost child. He didn't understand...almost anything, why he was here, who he was, why people couldn't see him unless he was just about to kill them, etc. His reactions towards Rhys are indeed very childish.

Game-Cole is very different, grown, he definitely knows what he wants: to help.
But there are two very important things (to me). 1: As he states himself if you choose the human path (and as someone said here too):now he understands how the human mind works better and his way of helping is more "appropriate".
And 2: in the very beginning, at the White Spire HE chose to become "human". He says in a banter with Varric that he thought that was the shape best fit to help. No spirit had done that before (or so it seems) and I think we should respect his primary choice. Making him more spirit-like would be like erasing any progress he's made in trying to understand better and improving himself in what he loves doing: helping (it's the teacher in me speaking here!!).

Also, I'm a mum, and I see his quest on the human path just as a quest for growing. I love thinking that in the future, human-Cole maybe able to learn, grow, improve, taste and enjoy food/drinks, and eventually, fall in love. As a parent you know that giving life is also giving death. That's how life is. And if Cole accepted that in the first place, at the White Spire, and made that choice, I would give him the chance to live it out.

P.S: I'm not a native English speaker either so sorry for my mistakes.

If the best shape for helping people were that of a druffalo, Cole would've chosen it instead without thinking twice.

It doesn't really matter to him.

[midnight tea]

Thanks.

 

I have an issue, though, there's no party banter in my game anymore. They kept chattering like chatterboxes before that, but now suddenly everyone is silent. I heard that such a glitch happens to some people, but I never thought my game would glitch like that after everything was alright for so long

 

What about cutscenes? Are there any choice-related cutscenes in the game, apart from Val Royeux cafe and the final cutscene I saw on youtube (on the battlements)?

 

Sadly yes, this can happen to party banter - they chatter incessantly only to stop for some inexplicable reason. After it happened to me in subsequent playthrough I just said "screw it!" and got myself cheat engine with party banter script - and if your'e using a PC version I recommend giving it a try.

Here's a link to a post in which everything is explained and linked -> http://forum.bioware...1#entry18562081

 

As for cutscenes - no there's nothing else, except for Val Royeaux and battlements.

[midnight tea]

If the best shape for helping people were that of a druffalo, Cole would've chosen it instead without thinking twice.

It doesn't really matter to him.

 

 

Only we know - and Cole seemingly is aware as well - that humanoid shape (not necessarily human) is better for helping people around. ... Although watching Cole trying to help people with their problem in druffalo shape would be pretty funny xD

 

Or like Casper. Everybody will be going "Aaaaah, a ghost!!"

[VelvetV]

Although watching Cole trying to help people with their problem in druffalo shape would be pretty funny xD

 

 

Varric (sad):

"And here I am, standing here all by myself, in this Maker-forsaken place... Oh Bianca, where are you now, and what is it that I feel? Wait... What is this that I'm trying to realize? I feel it rolling at the tip of the tongue, some important insight, some roars... no, I meant words. But I can't grasp it! Ah, dang it, I'm going home."

 

Cole (exasperated):

"RAWWWWR! RAAAAAAWWWR!"

 

Varric (puzzled):

"I still have a feeling that I'm missing something..."

[Korva]

If the best shape for helping people were that of a druffalo, Cole would've chosen it instead without thinking twice.

It doesn't really matter to him.

 

In that case, the game would end at Haven because druffalo-Cole would roflstomp Corpyheus and his dragon without breaking a sweat.

 

so no matter what choice you make, he remains having some humanity despite how much further you push him toward or away from it.

 

I'd argue that this is more a matter of being a person than of humanity. (And I really want a "person does not equal human" dialog in the game, grr). But that maybe semantics.

 

Yep, he does express that he's happy to see you, but I was comparing with a book. He's so incomparably more attached to Rhys there than to anyone in the game. He wanted to protect him all the time, he felt bad if Rhys didn't talk to him for a while. That was so very touching.

 

Hmm. If he's so broken/needy/clingy/childish in the book, I'd probably read it less as touching and more as weird. I like a more mature and equal bond. There's probably also a lot more space/words dedicated to the relationship between Cole and Rhys in Asunder, than Inquisition allows for the relationship between Cole and the Inquisitor.

 

Plus, Bioware has this old issue of making PC/NPC bonds feel awfully one-sided because we do all the emotional work and support and showing of curiosity but basically get none of that in return. Which is ... really glaring when the NPC in question is a hyper-empathic, literal embodiment of compassion who fusses over everyone else's hurts but not ours. So if the bond feels lacking at times, I blame it more on lazy video game writing.

 

However, I remember that when you turn Cole into a full spirit and come to talk afterwards, he expresses an opinion that your questions are shackles, but still he will reply, because you've been so kind. That rubbed me wrong, almost like a send-off. That doesn't sound like something a friend would say.

 

Yeah, I did a double-take at that, too, but his happiness and gratitude in one of the following lines and in the Val Royeaux scene dispelled that worry for me. He's kind of right, too -- questions can be shackles (that is what he actually says). Questions that try to pin him down and vivisect him, treating him more like a magical curiosity or a thing to be exploited than a sentient being with his own will. Questions that are more of an "I know you're a demon/monster/parasite" interrogation.

 

Plus, I kind of find "you kept me in kindness" touching. Cole's quiet voice and poetic alliterations are so bloody soothing.

 

I'm glad you think so! Now I know I'm not alone. I keep laying that quest aside, because I don't know what to do.

 

Yes, you're far from the only one! There's been quite a bit of discussion about the problems with Leliana's arc and flip-floppy personality.

 

Is there any reason for such a difference? Does that brief exchange with Corypheus influence Cole somewhat, changing the final conversation later?

 

No good reason, in my book, no. If you bring him along, that conversation at the celebration is about himself and what Corypheus tried to do to him. If you don't bring him, it's about the celebration, the mood of the people and his reaction to that. (Regardless of whether he's more-spirit or more-human.) The thing is, the game heavily implies that even the companions who aren't in your party are nonetheless present for the big story events. So they could have had both the "what happened to me" and the "how the people feel" elements in the post-victory talk, for the maximum amount of character insight. It's a bit short as it is -- more time with our friends is always good.

 

Well.. Cole can be fast. Very fast. And invisible. He could leap to the man and put a dagger in his heart within a second.

 

Yeah, but as I said, that wasn't what it apparently would have been like. It would have been a lot more ... gruesome. And a lot more drawn out.

 

A compassion\murder spirit doesn't even sound possible. Would he be bipolar? And without turning into a crazy demon? Maybe it was removed because it didn't sound logical enough.

 

Yes, I can't really see him retaining his compassion-side i.e. the core of who and what he is after willfully torturing someone to death. If there was a textbook example of how a spirit can be perverted into a demon by going against or being forced to go against its nature, that would be it.

[Korva]

Ahh, I see and agree. That is my only issue with the infamous post-Mythal cutscene, and it's a huge one. I'm fine with Cole doing what he does, but what they did with the Inquisitor is BS.

 

Spoiler

No way in hell would mine, who sees Cole as her most beloved friend and confidant aside from Cassandra, who has done her best from the beginning to understand, respect and support Cole's unique nature and learn about spirits from him and Solas, walk out on him like that as if she was thinking "whatever, weirdo". It's a huge screwup on the writers' part, especially after the Val Royeaux cutscene beautifully established that Cole recognizes and appreciates my Inquisitor's willingness to understand and believe in him. Going from that to walking out on him in a vulnerable moment is painfully jarring and character-breaking.

[midnight tea]

I think you may want to blame cinematic guys more than writers - though honestly, I wonder what IQ was supposed to do?

 

Cole just identified Cole's past as "hurt" and just... erased it. He wasn't vulnerable at this point - he grew more distant himself from humans (and non-humans) and experience that brought him on this world. We can hear it in the delivery - his voice became less emotional and he's staring at the distance, not really paying much attention to what happens around him. 

[midnight tea]

I know it doesn't last - I'm just saying that at that particular moment Cole was only vulnerable till the moment he erased Cole's memories. It was a moment of healing for himself and Inquisitor stayed till it was done. After making sure that he was alright, what else was there to be done? He didn't require staying, since at that particular moment he didn't need companionship.

[Korva]

Might want to spoiler-tag that, folks, in case VelvetV has not seen that scene yet.

 

Spoiler

It does feel like a vulnerable moment to me, because his close identification with Cole was such a major aspect of the character, so cutting that tether and the following silence and then the rather detached delivery of his last line made me feel like he's kind of ... free-falling and figuring out what he really is and what is important to him. So yes, I too would expect something, anything but her walking off like she doesn't give a whit while it feels like he's still in the process of doing that. Silently sit with him in case he needs some quiet time while he sorts himself out. Talk to him. Thank him for staying. Show that her own understanding, support and respect for him hasn't changed.

 

It hurts that the writers/animators/whatever didn't even try to do that, and creates a really bad imbalance between the human and the spirit path -- when you look at various Cole-theads, this one scene is often cited as the reason for an anti-spirit stance. A better reaction from the Inquisitor that doesn't leave you wondering if their friendship means nothing anymore would have made a huge difference, IMO.

 

I'm glad the scene worked for you, though. Your impression is the one I really wanted to come away with! And probably, hopefully, the impression they intended to give. I just wish they'd made it clearer, ended it with ... at least some brief moment of "togetherness" instead of him staring into the distance and her walking out with a look that I too read as cold.

Modifié par Korva, 15 mai 2015 - 08:46 .

[midnight tea]

Let me just say that I'm an obsessively detail-oriented person, so I totally get where you're both coming from. But I also tend not to hang of these details for too long, but rather incorporate them into a larger picture. Games especially taught me to do that, since game-play elements or some still-lingering limitations of the medium oftentimes trump storytelling or realistic elements of the game - if I hung on everything that clashes with my over-analyzing nature, I'd have to stop playing games altogether

 

This is a cinematic of course, so it requires harsher judgment - why did they chose to show Inquisitor that way is probably a question to cine-designer or creative director. Maybe it's just a matter of poor timing? It would also help if animation was different - they used the default male gait, which so many times makes female character look awkwardly hilarious.

[Korva]

Let me just say that I'm an obsessively detail-oriented person, so I totally get where you're both coming from. But I also tend not to hang of these details for too long, but rather incorporate them into a larger picture. Games especially taught me not to do that, since game-play elements or some still-lingering limitations of the medium oftentimes trump storytelling or realistic elements of the game - if I hung on everything that clashes with my over-analyzing nature, I'd have to stop playing games altogether

 

Yes, that is a good point and probably wise. I can normally manage my own tendency to overanalyze in the same way, but some scenes get under my skin too much ... especially when they give me whiplash from being a complete opposite of what I was expecting or hoping for, or of what my character would do.

 

This is a cinematic of course, so it requires harsher judgment - why did they chose to show Inquisitor that way is probably a question to cine-designer or creative director. Maybe it's just a matter of poor timing? It would also help if animation was different - they used the default male gait, which so many times makes female character look awkwardly hilarious.

 

Goodness, the female posture in this game ... either you're slouching like a sulky teenager, or you're sticking your T&A out! Not to mention the ass-swaying run. But that's a topic for another rant (which I actually made a few months back on the non-spoiler forum, heh).

 

But I think my problem is two-fold --

 

Spoiler

First, the Inquisitor walking off wordlessly. Any friendly word, any friendly reaction to Cole's line would have helped. Second, Cole spends the whole scene basically pulling away from you, not looking at you. At first it's as if he's too distressed to accept comfort ... and then as if he doesn't care anymore. So from a cinematic POV, it would have changed the whole feel if they had simply looked at each other at last. Sitting with him like you do on the more-human path would have been even better -- he may not need it, strictly speaking, but wanting to show "I'm here for you" is always good anyway.

[Korva]

Spoiler

Yes! That would have been enough to make the scene work for me. That way they could have made the Inquisitor leave without giving me that "I don't care" impression. Or she could have walked over to him and stood silently with him as they look down at Skyhold where the people they're protecting and caring for are safely asleep. Just standing together in companionable, comfortable silence on the battlements and in the little chapel works very well to end two of Cullen's friendship scenes, I love quiet moments like that.

[Deztyn]

I honestly find both choices have some terrible implications.

Cole is basically someone with a massive case of PTSD. He is so broken by the original Cole's death that he actually convinces himself that he IS Cole in order to cope with his inability to save him. In doing so he effectively obliterates his true self becoming a confused amnesiac borderline demon who haunts the White Spire and kills depressed mages because it's the only thing that makes him feel real.

 

Making him more human seems to me like encouraging him to continue erasing his real identity rather than helping him move past his trauma in a meaningful way. I find that a bit horrifying.

On the other hand, making him more spiritlike helps him become more true to himself, but also encourages him to disconnect from humanity and limits his ability for a greater understanding of people. He's a Spirit of Compassion and that's all he'll ever be. I find this less horrifying, but still a little sad.

 

When I make the choice in game, I try to think about who my Inquisitor is and what she values, and leave out the metagaming otherwise I'd probably never be able to choose.

 

 

 

Btw, I wonder what your opinion on him would be if you read the book... I found out that his character was written by two different writers in the book and the game, and it shows. There's no shred of compassion in him as a book. I prefer to think that he was just extremely corrupt, but I think that his game writer changed his concept deliberately. And that was a great decision.

 

After reading Asunder, my assumption was that Cole was a Spirit of Mercy. I'd also guessed that the reason he felt more real after killing the mages was because he was fulfilling his true purpose: delivering people from their suffering. He wasn't killing just anyone, he was drawn to the hopeless and afraid who saw no possible end to their despair. He also wanted to kill Pharamond, because Pharamond desperately wanted to die rather than be made tranquil again. He restrained himself because Rhys convinced him it was wrong to kill people. 

 

This aspect of Cole is addressed in Inquisition when he wants to kill the soldier who is suffering and dying, and your Inquisitor can either allow him to do it, or convince him that killing the soldier is premature because there's still some hope that he could recover.

 

So I don't think Cole being a Spirit of Compassion broken and twisted by trauma is far enough from Mercy to make me think his concept was changed. They're written much differently, of course, but Cole in Inquisition actually understands what he is, and why he did the things he did. While Cole in Asunder was much more lost and confused, and had forgotten his true nature.