He suffers as a human. That makes it kind of a dickish move to make him human. Also, he's a spirit. I wouldn't want a spirit to make me not-human just because he thinks it's a good idea. We are what we are and Cole is a spirit.
Yes, I drink the Solas-Aid. Sue me.
Solas disapproves of turning Cole human-like, but other than that he seems relatively fine with it, probably because he once described Cole as one whose nature is not easily defined. Cole originated as a spirit, but he's not exactly that anymore when in Thedas - he's made himself sort of a creature stuck in-between, pulled by all kinds of negative and positive influences in all kinds of different directions.
If turning Cole human was so bothersome for Solas, he'd greatly disapprove of that choice and scold us for it. He doesn't. He probably worries for Cole, because he views potential turning into full human 'a difficult road' - which it likely is, but that doesn't mean that it can't be successful. After all he did say to spirit of Command that a physical body is both a shackle and a strength. So there are both cons and pros of such decision - it will likely make a recent spirit less pure or connected to the Fade, but also one that can understand humans more and therefore help them on a deeper level.
He suffers as a human. That makes it kind of a dickish move to make him human. Also, he's a spirit. I wouldn't want a spirit to make me not-human just because he thinks it's a good idea. We are what we are and Cole is a spirit.
Yes, I drink the Solas-Aid. Sue me.
I agree; the OP is worried about Cole getting diseases and such. To make him human means that he'll be (more) human and all it's strings attached.
That's like sending in a stray cat you raised into the wilds without supervision because "s/he belongs there"
I agree; the OP is worried about Cole getting diseases and such. To make him human means that he'll be (more) human and all it's strings attached.
That's like sending in a stray cat you raised into the wilds without supervision because "s/he belongs there"
Same can be said of a spirit choice. If Cole's left without guidance, both options can end badly for him.
Also - in a way spirits can be "diseased" much easier than humans or other humanoids - they can be easily corrupted and turned into demons.
It's almost like he changed himself in a way. He went from Mercy to Compassion because it would mean he wouldn't do things like mercy killings, though he still tries at Skyhold. And during party banter he states he's a demon/spirit but would prefer to be called a spirit. Mercy is possibly a slightly more corrupted version of Compassion and if he went further he was either going to become Fear or Despair. It gets confusing at that point since it's implied he could be both. The Fade scene is where it got confusing for me. His tombstone said Despair was his fear, but the Divine said the Fear demon was possibly Compassion corrupted. Specifically the ability to forget things, but then the Command spirit calls him Compassion. Lol
I think despair is his greatest fear partly because that's what twisted him so badly in the White Spire. His own, the real Cole's and the mages he killed all contributed to his corruption there. I feel like that's also part of the reason he clung so desperately to Rhys. The man was his only lifeline when Cole was losing his grip.
And I don't think that means Nightmare couldn't be a Compassion spirit corrupted into fear. Fear and despair are similar enough concepts that both could be compassion perverted. I also think it's uneccessarily limiting to assume that a spirit can only be corrupted into one type of demon. Or that a certain type of demon can only have come from one type of Spirit. We know from Solas's personal quest that Wisdom can be warped into a pride demon. But I could also see a spirit like Command also becoming Pride.
Solas disapproves of turning Cole human-like, but other than that he seems relatively fine with it, probably because he once described Cole as one whose nature is not easily defined. Cole originated as a spirit, but he's not exactly that anymore when in Thedas - he's made himself sort of a creature stuck in-between, pulled by all kinds of negative and positive influences in all kinds of different directions.
If turning Cole human was so bothersome for Solas, he'd greatly disapprove of that choice and scold us for it. He doesn't. He probably worries for Cole, because he views potential turning into full human 'a difficult road' - which it likely is, but that doesn't mean that it can't be successful. After all he did say to spirit of Command that a physical body is both a shackle and a strength. So there are both cons and pros of such decision - it will likely make a recent spirit less pure or connected to the Fade, but also one that can understand humans more and therefore help them on a deeper level.
Banter indicates Solas is actually impressed with how Cole turns out if you make him more human. I think Solas was just afraid to see Cole lose himself. Once he knows that Cole isn't becoming a demon he's pleased with the results. No way to get the lost approval back unfortunately. 
Modifié par Deztyn, 15 mai 2015 - 11:12 .
Same can be said of a spirit choice. If Cole's left without guidance, both options can end badly for him.
Also - in a way spirits can be "diseased" much easier than humans or other humanoids - they can be easily corrupted and turned into demons.
With his amulet, he can't be forcefully bound like Solas' friend.
As a human, he'll be susceptible to human influence, desires, etc. He can make himself so real that he can bleed out and die. To lose whatever supernatural power he had because that's "human".
I agree; the OP is worried about Cole getting diseases and such. To make him human means that he'll be (more) human and all it's strings attached.
That's like sending in a stray cat you raised into the wilds without supervision because "s/he belongs there"
Also - in a way spirits can be "diseased" much easier than humans or other humanoids - they can be easily corrupted and turned into demons.
I don't know if calling it "much easier" is really fair. We see how easily humans break (and can be broken) and become evil all the time. Corruption is one of the main themes in the game. But, maybe because we are human and because there are so many human characters that it's easy to say "not all humans", we're more willing to not fret about that all the time. We've also seen quite a few demons, the nasty and dangerous side of the Fade. Meanwhile, we've met less than a handful of spirit characters, and are only exploring a positive and somewhat more in-depth look at them for the very first time. So it's easier to be wary of them and the risks attached to them -- their alien nature and little in the way of positive interactions with them don't help the anti-spirit bias, especially when humanity (which many are inclined to view as superior anyway because we are human) is the other option.
Like Sera, he's probably an elven god?
Like Sera, he's probably an elven god?
Guest_Mlady_*
I think despair is his greatest fear partly because that's what twisted him so badly in the White Spire. His own, the real Cole's and the mages he killed all contributed to his corruption there. I feel like that's also part of the reason he clung so desperately to Rhys. The man was his only lifeline when Cole was losing his grip.
And I don't think that means Nightmare couldn't be a Compassion spirit corrupted into fear. Fear and despair are similar enough concepts that both could be compassion perverted. I also think it's uneccessarily limiting to assume that a spirit can only be corrupted into one type of demon. Or that a certain type of demon can only have come from one type of Spirit. We know from Solas's personal quest that Wisdom can be warped into a pride demon. But I could also see a spirit like Command also becoming Pride.
Yeah I can easily see Cole as a Mercy/Compassion spirit that can be corrupted into a Despair/Fear demon. It all fits closely together. And Solas' comment about the Command spirit being a spirit of Pomposity was hilarious and pretty accurate, since both can go together too.
With his amulet, he can't be forcefully bound like Solas' friend.
I'm pretty sure Cole can't take the amulet with him, after he goes back to the Fade in spirit form. Inquisition won't last forever, nor will Cole be able to stay around those he cares about forever, as they won't live that long. Eventually he'd have to go back and won't be able to protect himself from binding - even as old and powerful spirits as the one who was friends with Solas could, some stupid mages just ripped her from the Fade and twisted her against her purpose.
As a human, he'll be susceptible to human influence, desires, etc. He can make himself so real that he can bleed out and die. To lose whatever supernatural power he had because that's "human".
Um, why do you think he wanted for Solas to bind him in the first place or why made Inquisitor promise that she/he will kill him if he start turning bad??? Spirit Cole is no less susceptible to human influence and desires... heck, spirits are pretty literally MADE from human/non-human influences and desires.
If there are things that can bind a spirit for hundreds or thousands of years then I'm sure that amulet - as long as it's not tampered with, can lasts just as long regardless of Inquisitor and co. dying.
Guest_Mlady_*
Cole was bound to the Inquisitor.
It being bound to a corpse wouldn't do the demon any favors nor make it overly productive.
I laughed out loud at that, but it's so true!
I laughed out loud at that, but it's so true!
Guest_Mlady_*
And now I have a horrible mental image of Cole walking around with a rotting Inky corpse in his arms... I need more coffee.
I don't know if calling it "much easier" is really fair. We see how easily humans break (and can be broken) and become evil all the time. Corruption is one of the main themes in the game. But, maybe because we are human and because there are so many human characters that it's easy to say "not all humans", we're more willing to not fret about that all the time. We've also seen quite a few demons, the nasty and dangerous side of the Fade. Meanwhile, we've met less than a handful of spirit characters, and are only exploring a positive and somewhat more in-depth look at them for the very first time. So it's easier to be wary of them and the risks attached to them -- their alien nature and little in the way of positive interactions with them don't help the anti-spirit bias, especially when humanity (which many are inclined to view as superior anyway because we are human) is the other option.
Solas explains to Inquisitor that spirits able to reflect reality (namely those with developed personality) are fairly rare, so I don't think we'd be seeing many of them. But those we know... I mean, just look what happens to both Cole in Calling and Wisdom in Inquisition. They got fairly easily twisted or at least made severely confused about their identity.
I think the game implies pretty heavily that spirits are more fragile and susceptible to corrupting (or "corrupting") influences than humans - they're creatures from realm shaped by will and emotions and so they can be very easily twisted or adapt to human expectation (as explained, again, by Solas). They are also pretty simple/naive/childlike creatures who probably just don't have defense mechanisms against such influence.
Spirit and demon motivations are also fairly simple and so are their lives, if they're left alone. They're not really interested in much aside from what they stick to - and it's Cole who said that. Even him, a more complex spirit, just dwelled in the Fade and did his thing until Cole's hurt brought him to Thedas - according to banter, he wasn't even aware of existence of Wisdom spirits, or areas of the Fade he didn't originate from (the domain of Nightmare freaked him out, seemingly not just because he entered it as... uh... semi-human).
It's different for humans and other races in Thedas - they live in a world were such simple existence is pretty much impossible. Hence they're beings who are more complex. That makes them less pure than spirits, but also less prone to total corruption or sudden shifts in one's personality. Oh sure, they're also more prone to evil or gray-area behavior, but at their core they're actually more resilient to external world as well as will of others. I also wouldn't call what we see in games as humans being "easily broken and made evil all the time". Most of them are either small-minded, desperate or do things they think are justified - while most demons (aside from those most powerful ones) just want everything destroyed or twisted around a negative thing they reflect, with little to no regard to anything else.
And now I have a horrible mental image of Cole walking around with a rotting Inky corpse in his arms... I need more coffee.
Which would probably also force him to sad existence of spirit bound to one place, unable to go anywhere 
Like spirit that wanted to help Telana and suffered greatly for it.
Guest_Mlady_*
Which would probably also force him to sad existence of spirit bound to one place, unable to go anywhere
OMG I never thought of that! You're right!
Solas disapproves of turning Cole human-like, but other than that he seems relatively fine with it, probably because he once described Cole as one whose nature is not easily defined. Cole originated as a spirit, but he's not exactly that anymore when in Thedas - he's made himself sort of a creature stuck in-between, pulled by all kinds of negative and positive influences in all kinds of different directions.
If turning Cole human was so bothersome for Solas, he'd greatly disapprove of that choice and scold us for it. He doesn't. He probably worries for Cole, because he views potential turning into full human 'a difficult road' - which it likely is, but that doesn't mean that it can't be successful. After all he did say to spirit of Command that a physical body is both a shackle and a strength. So there are both cons and pros of such decision - it will likely make a recent spirit less pure or connected to the Fade, but also one that can understand humans more and therefore help them on a deeper level.
I would say Solas' disapproval of making Cole more Human comes from his own low opinion of Humans and worries that Cole would eventually become like them. He's relieved that Cole still wants to help people after he becomes more Human.
Guest_Mlady_*
I would say Solas' disapproval of making Cole more Human comes from his own low opinion of Humans and worries that Cole would eventually become like them. He's relieved that Cole's still wants to help people after he becomes more Human.
And Varric's disapproval of making him more Spirit is because Varric looks at it as Cole chose to become Human, so he feels it should be embraced. As he says at the end "he could have been a person" and I think Varric grew attached to him in a fatherly/brotherly way too. In a way making him Human is selfish since he would stay and be with everyone who wanted him around and grew close to him, but making him a Spirit means letting him go and be free, and letting him decide if he wants to return or not. And letting someone go came be the hardest thing to do, so we hold on in any way we can, even if it's not fair to the person.
I would say Solas' disapproval of making Cole more Human comes from his own low opinion of Humans and worries that Cole would eventually become like them. He's relieved that Cole's still wants to help people after he becomes more Human.
If there are things that can bind a spirit for hundreds or thousands of years then I'm sure that amulet - as long as it's not tampered with, can lasts just as long regardless of Inquisitor and co. dying.
I have to wander how a spirit can wear an amulet. Isn't he invisible? Does it mean that the amulet will turn invisible, too, or will everyone be seeing it floating in midair? That would be quite inconspicuous 
I've been amused the same way whenever donning a new armor on Cole. His original clothes he conjured on his own, but this... is it like a walking suit of armor , or is he capable of transfroming physical things into a spirit-like form?
But best of all I loved how our char interacted with Cole in Val Royeux, when noone is supposed to see him. Hello, char, don't you think it was a little bit weird for you to talk to an invisible person aloud? Others will surely take note of your newfound insanity...
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