276 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Incorrect?

It's the logical conclusion to their war table operation.

Both traitors were rescued by inquisition forces from the red templars that were engaging them.

When the characters in question will later say that if those forces hadn't intervened they would have died?

No.

It's simply the conclusion that occurs outside of the Inquisitor acting on it, like the Nevarran Tevinter war.

Which I also think if I recall correctly.

Has no option in the keep.

Actually, what'll happen in DA4 is that the war between Nevarra and Tevinter never will have happened regardless; at most, it will have been a few skirmishes that no one will deem important enough to talk about.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

I'd again like to point out that ONLY mages can use the RoT, so why would mages suddenly want to gimp a major source of their income?

Assuming the mages do still us the rite, I doubt they would use the rite as a punishment like the Templars did and would rather use as it was intended: only for those who volunteer for it and to avoid executin condemned mages

[Boost32]

No one, because he's not in the Shrine of Dumat if you played In Hushed Whispers. I don't think he was even bound, because Samson didn't need the binding ritual (presumably his armor would do the job, or maybe Corypheus' ability to directly control the Blight would mean that he could wrench Samson away from Mythal on his own).

I asked about Rhys, its the Inquisition who saved him from being killed. If you dont do it who saved him? And we cant know if he is trully alive, because we dont know if he is going to appear in the next game.

[Master Warder Z_]

That's like saying "if Shepard doesn't play Lair of the Shadow Broker, Liara will never be the Shadow Broker."

No.

It's like saying that a penniless, renegade dies without outside intervention.

I don't see dozens of mercenaries saving Rhys.

[Sifr]

Reversing tranquility causes immense and immediate emotional instability. They cannot objectively ask to die, just as a depressed person cannot objectively ask to die.

Frame of mind, perspective, thought beyond immediate consequence.

Those aren't present.

And then Adrian pinning the murder on her comrade to incite violence?

No.

Mercy had nothing to do with either.

It was blind ambition and indifference.

Dogma.

 

Are we really saying that objectively, someone who has endured a fate worse than death has no concept or no say in wanting to prevent themselves from undergoing that kind of tortuous existence again?

 

Sure, they might not have been in their right mind but you're conveniently forgetting that Karl's brief lucidity was only temporary and he felt himself slipping away, while Pharamond was about to be rebranded the next day... I think that their desperation to avoid that is more than enough to trump any accusation that they did so only because they were suicidal?

 

While Adrian did murder Pharamond for her own reasons and as an attempt to incite the rebellion, he had previously asked Cole to mercy-kill him that same night, which would suggest that he wanted to die and probably allowed Adrian to kill him without much of a struggle?

 

I find it amusing that you'd use the term "Dogma", when you're essentially using the same dogmatic reasons as the Templars ("maybe they're dangerous") to justify why mages should remain locked up and neutered by the Templars?

[Xilizhra]

I asked about Rhys, its the Inquisition who saved him from being killed. If you dont do it who saved him? And we cant know if he is trully alive, because we dont know if he is going to appear in the next game.

Well, whether he shows up in the next game or not won't be affected by the war table.

 

 

No.

It's like saying that a penniless, renegade dies without outside intervention.

I don't see dozens of mercenaries saving Rhys.

You say that as if nothing in the world could possibly stop a red templar squad aside from the Inquisition's soldiers.

[Master Warder Z_]

Are we really saying that objectively, someone who has endured a fate worse than death

Subjective.

Conjecture.

On that note I do believe our little talk has reached it's apex.

[The Baconer]

Assuming the mages do still us the rite, I doubt they would use the rite as a punishment like the Templars did and would rather use as it was intended: only for those who volunteer for it and to avoid executin condemned mages

 

Wouldn't that just be, essentially, a punishment?

[Master Warder Z_]

You say that as if nothing in the world could possibly stop a red templar squad aside from the Inquisition's soldiers.

I guess a giant boulder could fall from the sky and kill them all...

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

Subjective.

Conjecture.

On that note I do believe our little talk has reached it's apex.

Not when the two examples both agreed that they preferred to die than become tranquil again

[Xilizhra]

I guess a giant boulder could fall from the sky and kill them all...

One thing that I know can stop red templars, from watching it in the Emerald Graves, is giants. Giant shows up, pounds on the red templars, Rhys and Evangeline scamper away, bam, done.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

Wouldn't that just be, essentially, a punishment?

Most likely it would be rare considering the uproar the mages have if you ally with them and tranquilize anyone.

[Master Warder Z_]

One thing that I know can stop red templars, from watching it in the Emerald Graves, is giants. Giant shows up, pounds on the red templars, Rhys and Evangeline scamper away, bam, done.

Wouldn't the giants kill them too?

Their hard to outrun.

[Master Warder Z_]

Not when the two examples both agreed that they preferred to die than become tranquil again

In a state that is documented to cause prolonged and immense emotional instability.

They aren't lucid, coherent.

Perhaps permanently.

If they had said that say...ten years later.

I'd take them at their word

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Any number of things can kill Red Templars, including regular templars. If that wasn't the case it undermines the entire premise of "Champions of the Just."

[Boost32]

Well, whether he shows up in the next game or not won't be affected by the war table.

Yes I agree, so until he appers we cant say he is 100% alive or dead.

 

 

Any number of things can kill Red Templars, including regular templars. If that wasn't the case it undermines the entire premise of "Champions of the Just."

Have you read their war table? If it wasn't by the Inquisition intervention they would be dead.

http://dragonage.wik..._and_Evangeline

[raging_monkey]

Wouldn't the giants kill them too?

Their hard to outrun.

not really... Pretty easy to out run

[Xilizhra]

Wouldn't the giants kill them too?

Their hard to outrun.

Not when the giant is busy with the red templar squad.

[Master Warder Z_]

Not when the giant is busy with the red templar squad.

Why would you assume they'd start with the templars?

[Gothfather]

Do you recall that the times tranquility was cured, both former tranquils said that being made tranquil was worse than death and begged to be killed rather than be tranquil again.

Also, if tranquility is so useful, why not use it on non-mages like death row prisoners or prisoners in general? They can be useful and you don't have to bother wih them in prison or killing them since they have no emotions.

Also, I have a problem with something that results in you being okay with becoming a sex slave

 

i assume that tranquillity is not more widely used as a punishment because it isn't needed to punish mundanes. A mundane criminal is far easier to imprison than a mage, a mundane prisoner lacks the power so they can't become so desperate that they call in a demon to help them escape their punishment.  The mundane prisoner may be that desperate but they lack the power rendering a more mundane sentence like imprisonment sufficient.

 

Tranquillity is a humane way to sever the magic from the person without killing the person in the process. Is it harmless? No. It is not harmless to incarcerate people either but a punishment isn't meant to be harmless. Tranquillity is a means to render the magic inert within the mage. There is no reason to render magic inert in people who have no magic, so why bother making them tranquil?

 

I also never equated the punishment as useful, I stated that the punishment doesn't render the person a mental pygmy. They are according to the lore cognisant and their metal capacity is so obviously not impaired as they can still create magic items and conduct scientific research which both activities require creativity and imagination.

 

As a punishment it has its place, and like any punishment it can be abused. Any prisoner can be coerced into being a sex slave, that doesn't make being a prisoner inhumane it makes specific treatments of the prisoner inhumane. 

[Sifr]

Subjective.

Conjecture.

On that note I do believe our little talk has reached it's apex.

 

How on earth can you call it subjective or conjecture? Sheer and unbridled terror at being made Tranquil once more was the reaction of the people who've endured that state, in some cases for years?

 

If you wanted it from the horse's mouth, you can go no further?

[Master Warder Z_]

http://dragonage.wik..._and_Evangeline

Uh whoever wrote the champions of the just entry messed it up a bit but that's the gist of it.

She signs her last name De Barrasad or what have you.

Not her non existent knight commander title.

[Xilizhra]

Why would you assume they'd start with the templars?

Attraction to enemies in heavier armor first, but the point is that it's completely not impossible for them to survive, and if their state is to be referenced in the next game, they will have. And if their state isn't referenced in the next game, then the Tranquility cure will have gotten out in some other way, most likely, given that it's not like either one to just sit on the information.

[The Baconer]

Their fate, with or without the PC's intervention, is completely ignored by the Keep. Thus, thinking literally, they are simultaneously dead and not dead. Any arguments regarding their possible states are meaningless. In terms of narrative, they are ****ing dead. They have fallen through the cracks of time; never again shall they be relevant to any plot or make any appearance.

 

Well, I suppose it won't be final until WoT2 is released in its entirety. If the book mentions their existence beyond the war with Corypheus, we will have a definite answer (Shadow Broker'd/Leliana'd/Legacy'd). Until then, consider them effectively dead.

[Boost32]

Uh whoever wrote the champions of the just entry messed it up a bit but that's the gist of it.

She signs her last name De Barrasad or what have you.

Not her non existent knight commander title.

When I read it the first time I really tried to remember in what circle she served as Knight-Commander, but hey its at least a minor error who people will not remember, and Bioware have done worse in Inquisition (I'm looking at you Cullen).