200 réponses à ce sujet

[Felis Menari]

AW is actually fun nowadays with stone fist builds, granted dmg is less, post patch -you can no longer text on your phone, surf the web, and eat doritos while holding down the sb button all the while extract in zone 5.

Spirit Blade pre-nerf plain and simply was not good enough on its own to maintain barriers at all times. It was not a god skill, perfect for all combat situations. It blasted barriers and guard, but against health it didn't do drastically more damage than what it currently does. You still had to make use of the other skills at your disposal, or you were going to have a problem.

[Cryos_Feron]

AW can tank just fine without the blade - literally, without even having it between your skills. And if I, with crap promotions, can play the "new" AW, while not even being a main class for me (I really like the Legio more), then I`m sure people that have it as a "main" can do better. As a tank it is still invincible. If you are hell bent on using the sword, well... get the Legio. 

 

For me, it is now between 2 choices of tanks - melee (Legio) and ranged (AW). 

 

The only drawback I see in here is that it doesn`t dance, sing AND bake while tanking anymore. It really depends what you are after, I guess.

 

I can verify that,

because I saw him yesterday handling a perilous dragon completely on his own - while we were all long dead... :-(

[DrKilledbyDeath]

It is common, but it's not an absolute truth. Your comment "You're doing it wrong." comes off as blanket statement, that you think the AW is infallible, incapable of being bested. If that was your intent, then the statement is incorrect, and so I felt the need to correct it.

I don't think the AW is infallible, I know he is. Level 20 AW with my gear level and promotion can not be killed unless I do something stupid. This is with 22/32/30 promotions, so just imagine what it's like with 50 of each or higher and dragon weapons (I use mindchill staff). You can put a 20 AW alone in any map, against any faction and win every time with ease. The same can't be said for other classes, this is why the AW is an unstoppable killing machine.  

[Ploidz]

Spirit Blade pre-nerf plain and simply was not good enough on its own to maintain barriers at all times. It was not a god skill, perfect for all combat situations. It blasted barriers and guard, but against health it didn't do drastically more damage than what it currently does. You still had to make use of the other skills at your disposal, or you were going to have a problem.

 

Yeah he's exaggerating too much. With his attitude and avatar it seems like he's in full troll mode. Like the comment on 100 easy promotions, that took a lot of patience and endurance. 100 promotions takes a while even if he only had to walk through the zones without having to fight anything, deal with loading, and not being discouraged by the crap loot. I was in easy mode with my keeper and archer but the loot and other things made me figure my time was better playing other games. Easy? Conveniently is the word I bet he's thinking of.

 

For me the only thing solo AW solved was having to deal with the problems with the way the game behaved when match making, and it would feel like it took me way too long to find a game. The worst for me was when quick play would spit me back to the main menu because it failed to connect to lobby (it still does this though rarely, and it's quite annoying because it has to load before going to the  main MP menu). Playing with a party was faster, and gave me more gold. I learned to start games solo no matter what class I play and let the room fill up or not, at least I'd get things done.

 

I'll do your reply for you guy with QQ avatar.

 

"No it was easy, I tied a rubber band to my controller and the game played itself with spiritblade. The next thing I knew I was at 120 promotions a few days seconds later." (trollface)

[Felis Menari]

I don't think the AW is infallible, I know he is. Level 20 AW with my gear level and promotion can not be killed unless I do something stupid. This is with 22/32/30 promotions, so just imagine what it's like with 50 of each or higher and dragon weapons (I use mindchill staff). You can put a 20 AW alone in any map, against any faction and win every time with ease. The same can't be said for other classes, this is why the AW is an unstoppable killing machine.  

Hyperbole much? The smell of wrong coming off of this post is almost nauseating. If gear and other factors are necessary to achieve this infallibility that you speak of, then the class itself is not infallible. Not everyone has the same gear or promotion levels, which means making a blanket statement such as "I don't think the AW is infallible, I know he is." is a logical fallacy.

[nibyl]

Hyperbole much? The smell of wrong coming off of this post is almost nauseating.

What are you even trying to argue about? Sure, AW can be killed if the player is bad. Pre-patch all you needed to survive was fade cloak and blade, maybe the occasional chain lightning. Post-patch it's cloak, blade, stonefist, restorative veil. It's really simple, I don't know what kind of build you've been playing with if you have trouble staying alive with him.

 

Sorry if I sound rude but I really don't understand why you are arguing against AW's survivability.

[DrKilledbyDeath]

It isn't though. I can solo FC perilous + high dragon as an AW, can't do it with anyone else at this point in time.

 

Last night I promoted my AW again, but before that I put my last skill point in (yes I do this even if I promote 5 seconds later). I usually pick the same skills every time and this time I couldn't for the life of me figure out which I missed. I eventually realized it was the 100% barrier on death. I die so infrequently that I never even noticed not having it. You may not have yet unleashed the full potential of the AW but I am in no way exaggerating how much of a killing machine they are.

[capn233]

Post-patch it's cloak, blade, stonefist, restorative veil....

 

Maybe it is my relative inexperience talking, but I am having a hard time seeing what spirit blade actually brings to the table npw, even in a setup with stonefist.  SF and Restorative Veil do indeed give you some good mana to go spirit blade more, but it seems to me that the blade really isn't mana efficient for the damage it does relative to how easily it is blocked.

 

Chain lightning, cloak, and stone fist in a cycle is like having infinite mana and spreads sleep pretty easily and nobody blocks it.  When they are asleep it is easy to get unblocked hits with SB, but when I was fooling around with this guy it seemed more productive to just hit everyone with cloak, lightning and SF again.

 

For reference, when I attack a perilous mook it seems like it takes a decloaking blast plus something like three unblocked swipes of SB to actually kill it.  Not sure if that's average for people or if willpower should improve that much.  Or someone can explain what I am doing wrong with it.

[DrKilledbyDeath]

Maybe it is my relative inexperience talking, but I am having a hard time seeing what spirit blade actually brings to the table npw, even in a setup with stonefist.  SF and Restorative Veil do indeed give you some good mana to go spirit blade more, but it seems to me that the blade really isn't mana efficient for the damage it does relative to how easily it is blocked.

 

Chain lightning, cloak, and stone fist in a cycle is like having infinite mana and spreads sleep pretty easily and nobody blocks it.  When they are asleep it is easy to get unblocked hits with SB, but when I was fooling around with this guy it seemed more productive to just hit everyone with cloak, lightning and SF again.

 

For reference, when I attack a perilous mook it seems like it takes a decloaking blast plus something like three unblocked swipes of SB to actually kill it.  Not sure if that's average for people or if willpower should improve that much.  Or someone can explain what I am doing wrong with it.

I use Stonefist, Fade Cloak and Step and Chain Lightning. I can't say for sure how long it takes me to kill an individual mook because the more that are surrounding you the better.

 

What I do is start off with chain lightning. I have the 30% damage ring, so that with promotions (32 willpower) and gear (Mindchill staff + superb attack ring) I usually get full barrier off that initial shot. It can crit over 1k sometimes. I then use stonefist to weaken and put them to sleep. If I am far away I will fade step into them, if I am close by I will use some auto attacks to decrease cooldown and hopefully the mind blast proc goes off and it hits enemies with nightmare.

 

To be honest, Fade Cloak is my "Oh ****" move. If I see shadows near me, if I get stunned or if my barrier is dropping below half way I use it. I spam CL and SF more than other moves. It's always fun to use FC, then fade step into someone and have FC go off as I fly through them.

 

On threatening I almost never even use FC, I just stand still and auto attack, using SF/CL over and over since the cooldown gets lowered with each auto attack. Perilous I make more use of the abilities but you always need to think a few seconds ahead. You don't want FS and FC both on cooldown if shadows are lurking.

[capn233]

I use Stonefist, Fade Cloak and Step and Chain Lightning. I can't say for sure how long it takes me to kill an individual mook because the more that are surrounding you the better.

 

What I do is start off with chain lightning. I have the 30% damage ring, so that with promotions (32 willpower) and gear (Mindchill staff + superb attack ring) I usually get full barrier off that initial shot. It can crit over 1k sometimes. I then use stonefist to weaken and put them to sleep. If I am far away I will fade step into them, if I am close by I will use some auto attacks to decrease cooldown and hopefully the mind blast proc goes off and it hits enemies with nightmare.

 

To be honest, Fade Cloak is my "Oh ****" move. If I see shadows near me, if I get stunned or if my barrier is dropping below half way I use it. I spam CL and SF more than other moves. It's always fun to use FC, then fade step into someone and have FC go off as I fly through them.

 

On threatening I almost never even use FC, I just stand still and auto attack, using SF/CL over and over since the cooldown gets lowered with each auto attack. Perilous I make more use of the abilities but you always need to think a few seconds ahead. You don't want FS and FC both on cooldown if shadows are lurking.

 

Thanks.  I sort of meant what was the best way to use Spirit Blade, though.

 

The build I am running on this promote cycle has Chain Lightning, Cloak, Stone Fist and Spirit Blade.  I have ended up mostly doing what you do save the fade step and blade ends up being more like a novelty if there are maybe 3 or more sleeping targets nearby, or if I just want to hack an archer because they deserve it.

[yarpenthemad21]

I use Stonefist, Fade Cloak and Step and Chain Lightning. I can't say for sure how long it takes me to kill an individual mook because the more that are surrounding you the better.
 
What I do is start off with chain lightning. I have the 30% damage ring, so that with promotions (32 willpower) and gear (Mindchill staff + superb attack ring) I usually get full barrier off that initial shot. It can crit over 1k sometimes. I then use stonefist to weaken and put them to sleep. If I am far away I will fade step into them, if I am close by I will use some auto attacks to decrease cooldown and hopefully the mind blast proc goes off and it hits enemies with nightmare.

1k damage from CL? maybe on Fear demon, impossible on normal ones. It's 300% and with those stats you should have around 100-120 autoattack so CL around 300-400, crit is 140%.

That order you've used has 1 major flaw. Weakened is wasted after you pull mobs to sleep. So bonuses for weakened are wasted.
I would say that good AW should avoid setting sleep effect. If you reverse order, start with stone fist it should get you to full mana, next CL would keep you at full mana. Great when you want to use PotA or use SB. Targets still have weakened and all bonuses from it.
Setting on sleep should be considered if someone can detonate it frequently. Best would be either immolate ele with good communication/reflex or some mindblast spammer.

[DrKilledbyDeath]

1k damage from CL? maybe on Fear demon, impossible on normal ones. It's 300% and with those stats you should have around 100-120 autoattack so CL around 300-400, crit is 140%.

That order you've used has 1 major flaw. Weakened is wasted after you pull mobs to sleep. So bonuses for weakened are wasted.
I would say that good AW should avoid setting sleep effect. If you reverse order, start with stone fist it should get you to full mana, next CL would keep you at full mana. Great when you want to use PotA or use SB. Targets still have weakened and all bonuses from it.
Setting on sleep should be considered if someone can detonate it frequently. Best would be either immolate ele with good communication/reflex or some mindblast spammer.

With mana regen and my staff decreasing cooldowns I can use SF again very shortly anyways. If it was a minute or 2 before I could weaken them again it may make a difference but you can use moves so frequently I don't see it being an issue. Besides I like the nightmare combo, it procs more often than you'd think. Also keep in mind this is what I do alone, not factoring in other people who may be able to combo stuff.

[AbyssMessiah]

With mana regen and my staff decreasing cooldowns I can use SF again very shortly anyways. If it was a minute or 2 before I could weaken them again it may make a difference but you can use moves so frequently I don't see it being an issue. Besides I like the nightmare combo, it procs more often than you'd think. Also keep in mind this is what I do alone, not factoring in other people who may be able to combo stuff.

I`m using what you have - Stone Fist, Fade Step, Fade Cloak and Chain Lightning, with CL dmg ring and +10% attack ring. Was using Veil Staff, but got Dragon yesterday eventually. Will try MIndchill for combos also.

 

One noteworthy mention - with a total of 10 / 12  / 32 skills from promotions (that is to be read as zero warrior promotions, 2 mage and 22 rogue) I was tanking Perilous dragon with 3 team mates dead. I could do very low dmg, but managed to survive about 5 last phases - with her going up and dragonlings at about 25% HP and lower. 

 

It is also a class that can park anywhere in Zone 4, even stairs if you really wanted to and just yawn fest with CL and SF until everything is dead - even against archers.. a LOT of archers. From what I remember, I get very fast cooldowns also, so spamming everything is really not an issue.

[Felis Menari]

What are you even trying to argue about? Sure, AW can be killed if the player is bad. Pre-patch all you needed to survive was fade cloak and blade, maybe the occasional chain lightning. Post-patch it's cloak, blade, stonefist, restorative veil. It's really simple, I don't know what kind of build you've been playing with if you have trouble staying alive with him.

 

Sorry if I sound rude but I really don't understand why you are arguing against AW's survivability.

Spirit Blade, Stone Fist, Chain Lightning, and Fade Cloak are what I've been running since the SB nerf. The issue I take with DrKilledbyDeath's posts is the use of "infallibility" to describe the AW. The AW is not infallible, even in a capable player's hands (ever get ambushed by a RT assassin from the front, followed immediately by one from behind? Guardian Spirit got chewed through in the blink of an eye). And being out in the open on the Fereldan Castle map with ranged units all focusing on me can lead to my barriers being unable to cope with the incoming damage.

 

This is with Staff of the Dragon, Chain Lightning ring, 10% CD Amulet, and minimal promotions (1/2/10). So, I have the gear to provide top-end damage, just not the promotions. Perhaps DrKilledbyDeath's promotions are enough to allow him to tank any damage that comes his way as an AW, regardless of tactics used. I on the other hand, actually have to avoid being the center of attention at times. Wave 3 or 4, perilous Fereldan Castle, being out in the open with all archers pelting me with arrows (or RT Knights and Horrors, which can be even nastier), is not pleasant. Using LoS to block ranged attacks and funnel enemies is actually a good idea in my case, not some silly notion that can be disregarded as completely unimportant.

 

This all of course could simply come down to the fact that I use Spirit Blade, whereas DrKilledbyDeath uses Fade Step in its place. Due to the inconsistent nature of Restorative Veil (it most certainly doesn't work as the description indicates; 10% of damage done returned as mana. If it did, every single swipe of SB on weakened enemies would return ~30 mana on non crits), sometimes I end up short on mana, or bottoming out entirely when using SB. DrKilledByDeath doesn't have to deal with the downtime that can cause.

[DrakeHasNoFlow]

Yes, but all classes have to los, and position themselves. What you said applies pretty much to every single class in damp but some classes like assasin, etc get punished severely for being out of position due to archers still shooting through stealth. Most of the time it's a ohk or close.Katari, even with recent buffs still has guard and hp chewed up in perilous, arrows still ruin his day; and that's saying something since he's supposed to be a 'warrior'.

But there is no denying that AW may very well be the most lenient/forgiving class when it comes to what you have mentioned due to self generating barrier and guardian spirit. Even if you have limited number of promotions and mid level gear,an AW gets farther through zones because no other class can close distance, barrier and sustain himself through attacking pretty much at will. Katari only gets 25 hp worth of guard for any hit. Also, sb allows AW to deflect incoming ranged attacks, even massive ice balls spewed by high dragons.

It does take practice to learn aw, there is no denying that, but he's like driving a Porsche compared an to an Accord (all other classes). Pre AW was in a class all to itself and fit into any group composition, it was foolish not to bring him into perilous pugs due to how survivable, and fast he made runs due to high dps and xp accrual. Pretty much every single game had an AW carrying. At least now we are seeing more of the new classes being played.

It's only recently that we have seen successful perilous runs from other classes solo wise, this I fathom comes from acquiring high level gear and high number of promotions. AW was the first class to successfully solo perilous with hardly any promotions. Second I believe was keeper.

Most of us who criticize AW players aren't being hypocritical in saying he requires complete lack of thought or skill, because most of us still or have played him thoroughly that I can say he doesn't take the same amount of effort compared to the alchemist,assassin,reaver,even lego (now with 2 seconds less invincibility).

[Ploidz]

Well said DrakeHasNoFlow. Awesome post.

[DrKilledbyDeath]

Spirit Blade, Stone Fist, Chain Lightning, and Fade Cloak are what I've been running since the SB nerf. The issue I take with DrKilledbyDeath's posts is the use of "infallibility" to describe the AW. The AW is not infallible, even in a capable player's hands (ever get ambushed by a RT assassin from the front, followed immediately by one from behind? Guardian Spirit got chewed through in the blink of an eye). And being out in the open on the Fereldan Castle map with ranged units all focusing on me can lead to my barriers being unable to cope with the incoming damage.

This is where we disagree. I should have clarified that the AW is infallible in the right hands, not just anyone that picks them. It all comes down to situational awareness. I was ambushed by 3 or 4 of those shadows at once and yes I died instantly. The solution, always have fade step or fade cloak up on waves with shadows, and pay attention to your character on screen. Now if they come near me I pop one of the fade moves and they don't touch me, haven't died to one since. I use fade cloak as a defensive move 75% of the time. It's a get out of jail free card. If I ever go down on the AW, it isn't because the class has weaknesses, it's because I personally screwed something up whether that be I tried to revive a teammate or lost track of how high my barrier was or what skills were on cooldown. It's like shooting a gun for the first time, missing your target horribly and saying the gun isn't accurate enough.

[lJustAlexl]

Yep, AW was and still is God tier. I really enjoyed that close-range effectiveness though. I know I can just run into groups and get creative with my ranged spells, but...it's just not the same as unleashing that energy sword and taking apart waves of enemies with ease.

 

A totally reasonable nerf, but I'm going to miss that unintended hack and slash playstyle for a mage class. Ah well.

[Laforgus]

Yep, AW was and still is God tier. I really enjoyed that close-range effectiveness though. I know I can just run into groups and get creative with my ranged spells, but...it's just not the same as unleashing that energy sword and taking apart waves of enemies with ease.

 

A totally reasonable nerf, but I'm going to miss that unintended hack and slash playstyle for a mage class. Ah well.

 

You still can from time to time, now the Virtuoso turns everyone in party, into Tank-It-All Arcane Warriors. Makes you wonder how much this honey moon will last.

[yarpenthemad21]

You still can from time to time, now the Virtuoso turns everyone in party, into Tank-It-All Arcane Warriors. Makes you wonder how much this honey moon will last.

Long I would say.
There are so many bad virtouso players...some of them "try" to be offensive use some useless cold beats or run around like morons. Some think that armor song is enough for perilous and barrier is not needed. Most ignore mana regen from autoattack, many ignore mana regen from passives, too much of them use healing song when is not needed.

[capn233]

Would be nice if more would stick to hits from the original album like Hometown Anthem, Battle of the Bands and Power Chord/Front Row Seats.

[Felis Menari]

Yes, but all classes have to los, and position themselves. What you said applies pretty much to every single class in damp but some classes like assasin, etc get punished severely for being out of position due to archers still shooting through stealth. Most of the time it's a ohk or close.Katari, even with recent buffs still has guard and hp chewed up in perilous, arrows still ruin his day; and that's saying something since he's supposed to be a 'warrior'.

But there is no denying that AW may very well be the most lenient/forgiving class when it comes to what you have mentioned due to self generating barrier and guardian spirit. Even if you have limited number of promotions and mid level gear,an AW gets farther through zones because no other class can close distance, barrier and sustain himself through attacking pretty much at will. Katari only gets 25 hp worth of guard for any hit. Also, sb allows AW to deflect incoming ranged attacks, even massive ice balls spewed by high dragons.

It does take practice to learn aw, there is no denying that, but he's like driving a Porsche compared an to an Accord (all other classes). Pre AW was in a class all to itself and fit into any group composition, it was foolish not to bring him into perilous pugs due to how survivable, and fast he made runs due to high dps and xp accrual. Pretty much every single game had an AW carrying. At least now we are seeing more of the new classes being played.

It's only recently that we have seen successful perilous runs from other classes solo wise, this I fathom comes from acquiring high level gear and high number of promotions. AW was the first class to successfully solo perilous with hardly any promotions. Second I believe was keeper.

Most of us who criticize AW players aren't being hypocritical in saying he requires complete lack of thought or skill, because most of us still or have played him thoroughly that I can say he doesn't take the same amount of effort compared to the alchemist,assassin,reaver,even lego (now with 2 seconds less invincibility).

Now that, I can agree with. 

 

@DrKilledbyDeath: You must remember that my spec is not the same as yours; I don't use Fade Step with my current setup, and as I said in my other post, using Spirit Blade can cause mana shortages (even with Restorative Veil) that you may not have to deal with (at least not as often) yourself.

[Texasmotiv]

Now that, I can agree with. 

 

@DrKilledbyDeath: You must remember that my spec is not the same as yours; I don't use Fade Step with my current setup, and as I said in my other post, using Spirit Blade can cause mana shortages (even with Restorative Veil) that you may not have to deal with (at least not as often) yourself.

If you have problems because you refuse to map different skills, no one can help you. I can't believe this thread is still active.

[Felis Menari]

If you have problems because you refuse to map different skills, no one can help you. I can't believe this thread is still active.

Uh huh...so you're saying that without using what you may consider the one spec to rule them all, I am somehow not playing the AW "correctly"? If so, shame on you. It is because of comments like yours that I keep coming back to this thread. In the comment you quoted, I was simply stating a potential reason for the difference in performance between my AW and DrKilledbyDeath's. We play AW differently since I use Spirit Blade, while he does not; that's it.

[KundaliniHero]

No crying is she you complain that one character is too strong

 

 

L2D

(Learn to Dance)