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[d1ta]

I prefer DA:I

.. coz no more mage skirts for my protag. I'm allergic to circle mage's choice of fashion (idk why, just personal taste, i guess XD..) Viv's attire is an exception, though

[Ellana of clan Lavellan]

DA:I because it conveys a sense of romanticism, heroism, and escapism.
 
And also because the frostbite engine makes everything look nicer

 

Edit: I think the proper word would be aesthetics rather than artstyle.

 

Here's a quick lesson:

 

Modifié par Ellana of clan Lavellan, 24 mai 2015 - 09:27 .

[Amirit]

DA:O was awfully bland and generic, but I thought DA2 was just plain ugly. So DAI wins by default.

 

You know, I asked many times different people - if DOA style is "generic", could you name a couple other games sharing that "generic" look and proving there was nothing creative or memorable about it? Surprisingly, I still did not get the answer! May be it's time I can finally find out that long waited proof.

So, what other games of that generation and around share the look with DAO so much you can not tell one from another?

[Draninus]

I definitely preferred DA:O in terms of artistic style.  It would be awesome to see that style brought back to life utilizing today's technology.

[Ellana of clan Lavellan]

You know, I asked many times different people - if DOA style is "generic", could you name a couple other games sharing that "generic" look and proving there was nothing creative or memorable about it? Surprisingly, I still did not get the answer! May be it's time I can finally find out that long waited proof.

So, what other games of that generation and around share the look with DAO so much you can not tell one from another?

 

I don't think generic is the right term for DAO's aesthetics... I think its rather "unpolished", not in a way that implies that Bioware did not put much effort into DAO, but rather more in the sense of DAO looking very... muted, gloomy, dusty, unheroic, uninspiring... idk I can't quite put my finger on it, but it certainly does make people remember the color brown a lot more than it was actually present in DAO. And the fact that faces looked very artificial and sometimes outright cartoonish doesn't do DAO's aesthetic style much justice.

[KaiserShep]

I don't think generic is the right term for DAO's aesthetics...

 

The word I'd use is brown. Lots and lots of brown.

[Amirit]

I don't think generic is the right term for DAO's aesthetics... I think its rather "unpolished", not in a way that implies that Bioware did not put much effort into DAO, but rather more in the sense of DAO looking very... muted, gloomy, dusty, unheroic, uninspiring... idk I can't quite put my finger on it, but it certainly does make people remember the color brown a lot more than it was actually present in DAO. And the fact that faces looked very artificial and sometimes outright cartoonish doesn't do DAO's aesthetic style much justice.

 

THAT explanation I can understand. Still, that "brown" look for me was right in place - dark fantasy, world is in war, medieval setting - to me it sound very "brown" and "dirty". So, to me it was very well done. As the opposite DA2 and DAI look so ... Disney-ish... I had to remind myself that we are fighting here, that all these pretty bright colors around with lovely red dots on it - are remains of horrible monsters and people do indeed suffer... 

Guess, I prefer DAO as a game setting. But for my screensaver I would take a picture from DAI.

[leaguer of one]

The word I'd use is brown. Lots and lots of brown.

If ever  color was ever to used to describe a country that smelled like wet Dog....

[leaguer of one]

THAT explanation I can understand. Still, that "brown" look for me was right in place - dark fantasy, world is in war, medieval setting - to me it sound very "brown" and "dirty". So, to me it was very well done. As the opposite DA2 and DAI look so ... Disney-ish... I had to remind myself that we are fighting here, that all these pretty bright colors around with lovely red dots on it - are remains of horrible monsters and people do indeed suffer... 

Guess, I prefer DAO as a game setting. But for my screensaver I would take a picture from DAI.

Da is not medieval setting. Every character that was from outside of fereldin made it a point to say fereldin looked liked a backward pit.

 

And fereldin still kind of does.

[leaguer of one]

x

[Lethaya]

I absolutely adore a lot of the artwork in DA:I. Dem tarot cards.

 

That said, I am one of the few who apparently liked the art style in DA2... quite a bit. XD It felt the way I think Kirkwall was meant to feel - oppressive, dark, gloomy. Kirkwall was atmospheric for me, I think, though the map recycling was such a pity. If they'd had more time I'd love to have seen where that went. Still, I liked a lot of the armor sets. The introduction of the more simple (Elven?) fresco style in the slides and loading screens was nice, too.

 

But both had issues. The Qunari were far superior in DA2, for instance. But the Elves in DA2.... yeah.

 

DA:O was nice, though! The score was lovely. Overall I think DA:I would be first for me. I really, really apprectiate the hard work Bioware's art team obviously put into it, it shows. Not to say that I didn't appreciate their efforts before! But in DA:I it just seems more... obvious. Or something. Super impressed! :V

[KaiserShep]

I enjoyed DA2's art style, particularly the bits where Varric's narration was illustrated. What DA2 suffered from was a lack of detail in its environment, which seemed more obviously a sign of its short development than a deliberate design decision.

[thruaglassdarkly]

THAT explanation I can understand. Still, that "brown" look for me was right in place - dark fantasy, world is in war, medieval setting - to me it sound very "brown" and "dirty". So, to me it was very well done. As the opposite DA2 and DAI look so ... Disney-ish... I had to remind myself that we are fighting here, that all these pretty bright colors around with lovely red dots on it - are remains of horrible monsters and people do indeed suffer... 

Guess, I prefer DAO as a game setting. But for my screensaver I would take a picture from DAI.

 

I feel the same way about "Disney-ish" to describe DA:I that you feel about people who use "generic" to describe DA:O.  I don't think either word accurately describes the aesthetics of either game. Its not that I have any particular umbrage with Disney design.  I would put Kingdom Hearts up against any action RPG of the early aughts because it was damn fun to play. But the caparison is not really fair to either property.  Yes DA:I is brighter and more colorful than DA:O. I don't believe it is any less gruesome; my clothes are still covered in blood and various character models (like Envy) make my stomach churn.  That said, I would concede DA:I has less of grimy/dirty feel to its design.  Its perfectly fair to consider that brightness or colorfulness to be inferior to DA:Os muted pallet.  There is something to be gained by having a muted pallet, even if I'm not as in love with that design choice.  But DAI it is not, thematically or aesthetically, particularly similar to Disney. IMO the Disney comparison feels like a lazy an unnecessary attempt to goad those who liked DA:Is design by asserting that having more (or prettier if you like) color and less dirt somehow makes aproduct childish. DAI, for whatever it is or isn't, deserves its M rating.

 

Anyway, I've probably said enough about this and it really doesn't matter.  I'm glad you like DA:O's design.  I liked it too.  I just like DAI's more.  There's room enough for both kinds of people.

[Ellana of clan Lavellan]

THAT explanation I can understand. Still, that "brown" look for me was right in place - dark fantasy, world is in war, medieval setting - to me it sound very "brown" and "dirty". So, to me it was very well done. As the opposite DA2 and DAI look so ... Disney-ish... I had to remind myself that we are fighting here, that all these pretty bright colors around with lovely red dots on it - are remains of horrible monsters and people do indeed suffer... 

Guess, I prefer DAO as a game setting. But for my screensaver I would take a picture from DAI.

 

Oh I understand that you like a more gritty and darker aesthetic, but there's a certain "goofiness" (especially faces) to that of DAO , which doesn't necessarily impede suspension of disbelief, but will understandably not make it the most favorite aesthetic of most people. I believe that "goofiness" is a result of Bioware's - at the time's - sub par graphical prowess.... there's a certain lack of detail in textures, polygon models, etc.

[Amirit]

Oh I understand that you like a more gritty and darker aesthetic, but there's a certain "goofiness" (especially faces) to that of DAO , which doesn't necessarily impede suspension of disbelief, but will understandably not make it the most favorite aesthetic of most people. I believe that "goofiness" is a result of Bioware's - at the time's - sub par graphical prowess.... there's a certain lack of detail in textures, polygon models, etc.

 
Would never argue about pure technical stuff - you are right, there is nothing to discuss here. Low polygons, stiff faces - you name it. However, at time it was good enough.  And the games I came from had is worse, so for me "realistic" graphic at that time always meant "awful graphic" by definition, but one you can adjust to if you understand what to expect. And don't forget mods - you were able to fix graphic too (my Override directory is bigger than the game itself, I'm afraid).  
Still, with all these graphic flaws I would never mistake Denerim for Redcliff or Lothering, for example, each location was memorable and had own character. And design contributed to the plot. I would say, it mean designers did the good job.
 

I feel the same way about "Disney-ish" to describe DA:I that you feel about people who use "generic" to describe DA:O.

 
You are probably right with that - it's easy to throw labels without thinking of offence. Though, still have to point out that if no one can name other games with "generic" DAO look, those using "Disney" accusation can explain what makes them say so. Still, you are right again - color alone do not make something "Disney-ish". However I strongly disagree with your next sentence:
 

Yes DA:I is brighter and more colorful than DA:O. I don't believe it is any less gruesome; my clothes are still covered in blood and various character models (like Envy) make my stomach churn.

 

Not with the part about frightening monsters - this is very personal and the fact, that not a single monster looks scary to me does not mean they are not scary in general.

But "my clothes are still covered in blood" - sorry, but with all objectivity in that observation it is as "M" as circus "bloody" tricks. THIS is where Disney really comes to mind. All you get in the fight is crimson accessories on your brightly colored clothes.    

And if we are talking about general design:

 

Ostagar war camp - it looked and felt as a war camp. 

War camp before Mithal temple (or any other war camp in DAI) - a picnic in the beautiful forest at the beautiful day with well dressed people spending their weekend on the nature.

 

Lothering - refugees struggling with hardships of running away from enemies forces.

Hinterlands - well fed lazy folk on the eave of some big local celebration (no less, judging by how well they are all dressed). You can even see some fireworks on the background practiced by comical troops of mages and templars.  

 

I can continue, but you get the picture.  

 

Once again - DAI is very-very beautiful. But any hint of real problems like war, hunger, every day survival - anything real! - was left in DAO. And since DA2 we have only words about problems not supported by the picture on the screen, as pretty as this picture is. And this is why Disney comes to mind - it's like developers afraid to scary kids with the picture of real world.

 

Should it be a competition of some art design not bound to any game - DAI is better: it's modern, it's very aesthetic even if not really stands out among other modern games on the same engine. But the moment you take game plot into consideration - DAI looses.

To me, of course.  

[rashie]

DA:I obviously have the best graphical fidelity but I believe DA:O had the best art style, it portrayed misery better and the monsters looked better, looking to for example the darkspawn here which imo has progressively become worse in every game since DA:O.

[Lethaya]

Ah, yep, I can defintely agree with the Darkspawn thing. Ogres are fine, I think, but the genlocks.... and I miss that old, awful, horrifying Hurlock-smile. D':

[Ellana of clan Lavellan]

 
Would never argue about pure technical stuff - you are right, there is nothing to discuss here. Low polygons, stiff faces - you name it. However, at time it was good enough.  And the games I came from had is worse, so for me "realistic" graphic at that time always meant "awful graphic" by definition, but one you can adjust to if you understand what to expect. And don't forget mods - you were able to fix graphic too (my Override directory is bigger than the game itself, I'm afraid).  
Still, with all these graphic flaws I would never mistake Denerim for Redcliff or Lothering, for example, each location was memorable and had own character. And design contributed to the plot. I would say, it mean designers did the good job.

 

I think DAO barely looked good enough at the time, considering GTA4 came out a year before and still looked vastly superior to DAO, but alas, this isn't a debate on how bad the graphics were in DAO. I think Bioware still did a terrific job at crafting an evocative world despite the graphical constraints they had, but at the same time, I believe that these very constraints were also cornering Bioware into this specific artistic style.

 

 

You are probably right with that - it's easy to throw labels without thinking of offence. Though, still have to point out that if no one can name other games with "generic" DAO look, those using "Disney" accusation can explain what makes them say so. Still, you are right again - color alone do not make something "Disney-ish". However I strongly disagree with your next sentence:
 

 

Not with the part about frightening monsters - this is very personal and the fact, that not a single monster looks scary to me does not mean they are not scary in general.

But "my clothes are still covered in blood" - sorry, but with all objectivity in that observation it is as "M" as circus "bloody" tricks. THIS is where Disney really comes to mind. All you get in the fight is crimson accessories on your brightly colored clothes.    

And if we are talking about general design:

 

Ostagar war camp - it looked and felt as a war camp. 

War camp before Mithal temple (or any other war camp in DAI) - a picnic in the beautiful forest at the beautiful day with well dressed people spending their weekend on the nature.

 

Lothering - refugees struggling with hardships of running away from enemies forces.

Hinterlands - well fed lazy folk on the eave of some big local celebration (no less, judging by how well they are all dressed). You can even see some fireworks on the background practiced by comical troops of mages and templars.  

 

I can continue, but you get the picture.  

 

Once again - DAI is very-very beautiful. But any hint of real problems like war, hunger, every day survival - anything real! - was left in DAO. And since DA2 we have only words about problems not supported by the picture on the screen, as pretty as this picture is. And this is why Disney comes to mind - it's like developers afraid to scary kids with the picture of real world.

 

Should it be a competition of some art design not bound to any game - DAI is better: it's modern, it's very aesthetic even if not really stands out among other modern games on the same engine. But the moment you take game plot into consideration - DAI looses.

To me, of course.

 

No, no, no, you are mistaking the aesthetic artstyle with execution. Execution is the way how you implement or try to represent certain ideas, choices, events, etc. into the game for the play to see. I believe DAI's biggest flaw would be it's execution, especially during the storyline. Lets use an example you mentioned: the siege in the Arbor Wilds. Its was supposed to be an all out attack with both inquisition and Orlesian forces, against Corypheus and his remaining forces, and we certainly got that feeling during the cutscene, but what did we actually get in-game? A small war camp and a few skirmishes on the way to the Temple of Mythal. Meanwhile, in the Exhalted Plains, we actually witness the aftermath of a grueling war and it's scarred battlefield. So is Bioware deliberately veering away from depicting misery, death and decay? I don't think so, but what I think did happen is that the execution in DAI fell short because Bioware didn't have the necessary time & resources to actually create the idea of the largest war party since Andraste herself into the actual gameplay (maybe technical issues also constrainted them heavily from implementing that idea), but spent that limited time and those resources on these expansive open-world areas instead, because I can tell they did craft these with a lot of detail.

[Amirit]

No, no, no, you are mistaking the aesthetic artstyle with execution. Execution is the way how you implement or try to represent certain ideas, choices, events, etc. into the game for the play to see. I believe DAI's biggest flaw would be it's execution, especially during the storyline. Lets use an example you mentioned: the siege in the Arbor Wilds. Its was supposed to be an all out attack with both inquisition and Orlesian forces, against Corypheus and his remaining forces, and we certainly got that feeling during the cutscene, but what did we actually get in-game? A small war camp and a few skirmishes on the way to the Temple of Mythal. Meanwhile, in the Exhalted Plains, we actually witness the aftermath of a grueling war and it's scarred battlefield. So is Bioware deliberately veering away from depicting misery, death and decay? I don't think so, but what I think did happen is that the execution in DAI fell short because Bioware didn't have the necessary time & resources to actually create the idea of the largest war party since Andraste herself into the actual gameplay (maybe technical issues also constrainted them heavily from implementing that idea), but spent that limited time and those resources on these expansive open-world areas instead, because I can tell they did craft these with a lot of detail.

 

And again, all I can do here is agree. I begin to suspect you are an artist or at least know enough about game design, so you are capable to point out specific problems. Me - I am just a clueless player who takes picture as at is in whole without understanding what is what. If I feel something is off with the picture, I just say "the picture is off".

From this point of view, DA2 and DAI both are pretty fairy-tales (let's forget about DA2 elves for a moment) with such a heavy stress on "pretty" that everything else is lost. Ok, I am exaggerating here - not everything but I certainly get the feeling that "Bioware is deliberately veering away from depicting misery, death and decay". And it's not only inability (should be technical, truly) to put enough moving objects on the screen (god, how many quests in DAI ruined by that!). But as you said - execution. Like take Elven Alienage. In DAO they did not forget to underline poverty and horror of existence there in general. Yet, I could never understand why Merrill is apologizing to me for her very clean three bedroom apartment in a quiet neighborhood - perfect place to live from the look of it!

Same with DAI in every aspect. Really, what first comes to mind if you hear "DAO visuals"? Brown and dirt - right? Fits setting. "DA2 visuals"? Ugly elves. Not so much about the game plot. "DAI visuals"? Gorgeous landscapes. Where is the game in it?

 

I love new visual capability of Frostbite (though can not help but think Unity-5 would do the same without all limitation to UI or simple mob number on the screen). Now if only designers will learn how to create anything else with it besides pretty landscapes! May be they will by DA4? Like in that "graphics vs aesthetics" you post before - in DAI the reached appropriate level of graphics. All they have to do now - add aesthetics to it.

[Cypher0020]

Inquisition>Origins>DA2

[Broganisity]

Origins faces are ugly and the expressions are worse.

Inquisition actually looks decent. But I like the Templar Armor of Origins more than the new armor of Inquisition, especially in regards to the helmets. Plate Armor in general was cooler in Origins to me. Rogue armor and mage robes all looked the same and were horrible.

[Ahriman]

DAO would have been best if it wasn't infected by brown plague which affected most games of that period.

DAI looks nice, but it's too cartoonish. Chained towers, spiked fortresses, bridges which put modern architecture to shame. Meh. Where did dark heroic fantasy go?

DA2 *insert one of first DA2 screenshots here*

[Ellana of clan Lavellan]

And again, all I can do here is agree. I begin to suspect you are an artist or at least know enough about game design, so you are capable to point out specific problems. Me - I am just a clueless player who takes picture as at is in whole without understanding what is what. If I feel something is off with the picture, I just say "the picture is off".

From this point of view, DA2 and DAI both are pretty fairy-tales (let's forget about DA2 elves for a moment) with such a heavy stress on "pretty" that everything else is lost. Ok, I am exaggerating here - not everything but I certainly get the feeling that "Bioware is deliberately veering away from depicting misery, death and decay". And it's not only inability (should be technical, truly) to put enough moving objects on the screen (god, how many quests in DAI ruined by that!). But as you said - execution. Like take Elven Alienage. In DAO they did not forget to underline poverty and horror of existence there in general. Yet, I could never understand why Merrill is apologizing to me for her very clean three bedroom apartment in a quiet neighborhood - perfect place to live from the look of it!

Same with DAI in every aspect. Really, what first comes to mind if you hear "DAO visuals"? Brown and dirt - right? Fits setting. "DA2 visuals"? Ugly elves. Not so much about the game plot. "DAI visuals"? Gorgeous landscapes. Where is the game in it?

 

I love new visual capability of Frostbite (though can not help but think Unity-5 would do the same without all limitation to UI or simple mob number on the screen). Now if only designers will learn how to create anything else with it besides pretty landscapes! May be they will by DA4? Like in that "graphics vs aesthetics" you post before - in DAI the reached appropriate level of graphics. All they have to do now - add aesthetics to it.

 

Ultimately, Bioware will decide for themselves whether or not they will put any emphasis on the depiction of the macabre, and from what I've seen, they won't (at least not here in DAI), although I can certainly tell that they are able to, judging from what I've seen in some of the dungeons and areas. In the end, its either the man in charge or the whole team (idk what corporate structure Bioware follows) that decides what aesthetic style DA will have to adopt. I have to agree though, as I said before, I think they're perfectly capable of pulling off a good balance between amazing vistas and horrific macabre, it just depends on whether or not they'll acutally do it.

 

(this was a quick reply so I might have been repeating the same thing lol)