334 réponses à ce sujet

[TheOgre]

That...is not BDSM. That's assault. 

 

Wait that was a bdsm example? I thought it was a Vanilla example, just a very forceful and scary one?

[Lady Artifice]

I hate 50 Shades of Grey so much.  I actually had the misfortune of reading it after I got it as a gag gift last year.  Full of bad ideas, abuse and misconceptions about BDSM, as well as very poorly written.  I could color a grape with how purple that prose is.  Is anyone surprised that it started life as a Twilight fanfic?

 

It is one of the most terribly written pieces of published fiction I've ever read. I threw the first book around the room a few times. I wanted to put all of them through a paper shredder. She's terrible at working with metaphors. She has that stupid hallucinatory personification of her self doubt that she calls her subconscious scolding her nearly half the time (not exactly how a subconscious works, but whatever). 

 

Through it all, she's describing a deeply abusive and psychologically traumatized person as though he actually represents what BDSM is. That isn't even to get into how juvenile and silly their dialogue and written correspondence is. Those emails read like two high schoolers passing notes in class. 
 

I wanted to punch something throughout most of the experience. 

[Sifr]

Wait that was a bdsm example? I thought it was a Vanilla example, just a very forceful and scary one?

 

Considering she was a prisoner that had been captured, that's more Abu Ghraib than something out of the Kama Sutra?

[Lady Artifice]

Wait that was a bdsm example? I thought it was a Vanilla example, just a very forceful and scary one?

 

 

Well, I'd call it an example of attempted rape and mutilation, with no need to apply words like "vanilla." 

 

Kefka used these words: 

 

 

but I'll be damned if that wasn't some of the most intense BDSM action I've seen, and it was a completely kind of vanilla mainstream sort of thing.

 

But that isn't "BDSM action." That's my point. 

[Lady Artifice]

Nope, even she has standards when comes to crappy romance books

 

I still think comparing Swords and Shields to Twilight is extremely unfair to Varric. 

[TheOgre]

Now I feel like we have hit that point in a conversation where .. The nukes been dropped hah..

[In Exile]

I hate 50 Shades of Grey so much. I actually had the misfortune of reading it after I got it as a gag gift last year. Full of bad ideas, abuse and misconceptions about BDSM, as well as very poorly written. I could color a grape with how purple that prose is. Is anyone surprised that it started life as a Twilight fanfic?

My only knowledge of the writing is the honest trailer parody. The writing is just atrocious.

[Hellion Rex]

Dear God, my mother actually read the thing when it came out years ago, just to see what the buzz was. FYI, my mother has been a lawyer, educator, and just about everything under the sun. Ergo, she is the one who gave me my love of reading. She has been a Tolkien lover ever since she was little, loves The Hardy Boys, Shakespeare, all the paragons of most literature. She is a well read woman.

 

I will never forget that Sunday afternoon when she called me up and spent about 3 hours absolutely destroying that book, page by page, while I could nothing but sit there and die laughing. She was absolutely incensed that such a book got published.

[Sifr]

My only knowledge of the writing is the honest trailer parody. The writing is just atrocious.

 

I would read it and Twilight, but I don't hate my brain that much. Watching the Twilight movies were bad enough.

[In Exile]

I would read it and Twilight, but I don't hate my brain that much. Watching the Twilight movies were bad enough.

Watching the Honest Trailer of twilight was bad enough for me. Seriously, vampire sex offender Edward Cullen and billionaire sex offender Edward Cullen are bad enough in a 4 minute parody video.

[Seraphim24]

That...is not BDSM. That's assault. 

 

Er it sure looked like BDSM to me? My understanding is the line is the line distinguishing between the two is rather arbitrary. He never actually harms her really in any way (does not take advantage of her sexually nor uses the knife), it was basically all for show I guess. It was probably ultimately less "harmful" than much BDSM play is my point.

 

Maybe if someone here wants to illustrate just what is so wrong about 50 Shades of Gray (not from a writing but conceptual perspective), I never saw it, it never seemed that crazy though.

 

You know what though? I like that kind of stuff (I don't advertise it) and I imagine quite a few people don't want to hear about it. That's why there's roleplay. It's just usually vanilla people tend to shy away from that kind of stuff and I understand. I just move on and hope to find someone as likeminded as myself.

 

Well that was my point, it's all fundamentally roleplay, but it seems to me sometimes it's the BDSM players that shy away from that kind of stuff at times ironically (not all necessarily), not the Vanilla types so much.

 

It seems like they tend to focus more on the BDSM and less on the sex... anyway just random observations at any rate. It's also just something to think about if you ever want to see more media with it, do you mix it with sex or have it be kind of extreme control fluctuations? Do you have as a part of a regular relationship as a random person (sort of like the one night stand version of BSDM).

 

I can't help but notice I seem to be dealing with the same people in every thread (AresKeith, Natashina, Artifice) just what are you guys at any rate? Demisexual gay KISA's with sadomasochistic tendencies? Is it even possible to be all those things? I'm not sure how else you could be in every single discussion lol...

[Lady Artifice]

Er it sure looked like BDSM to me? My understanding is the line is the line distinguishing between the two is rather arbitrary. He never actually harms her really in any way (does not take advantage of her sexually nor uses the knife), it was basically all for show I guess.

It is not. Violent sexual assault is not BDSM. One of the most important aspects of BDSM is that it's consensual, and focused on the enjoyment of each party involved. Please consider trying to entertain that distinction. It's actually a very important one.

I can't help but notice I seem to be dealing with the same people in every thread (AresKeith, Natashina, Artifice) just what are you guys at any rate? Demisexual gay KISA's with sadomasochistic tendencies? I'm not sure how else you could be in every single thing just kind of shooting down every concept or idea for discussion.

I have never spoken with you in the Demisexual thread, to my recollection. The last time I posted in there at all was well over a month ago when "Handsome Jack," or "Helvescient" at that time, expressed violent fury at the thread's mere existence.

As for the the Gay KISA thread, that debate had you at odds with many other people as well. If you'd truly like to know why, it's because you continually posted in a thread positively full of ardent fans of a certain character, and actually tried to convince them that because they didn't exclusively want that one character and no other until the end of time that they must actually have a deep seated issue with the portrayal of said character. We deigned to disagree, continually. And we were not shooting down discussion, but trying to explain to you how we can manage the feat of sincerely enjoying more than one sort of character archetype at a time.

As for this thread. No, I'm not particularly rooting for a chance to play a BDSM Dominant in the next game. I'm not opposed to another DA romance containing elements of BDSM, but I don't think the chances are high because we've already had that in this game. For a while, I was content to let Daemion and the others try to do most of the explaining, because he was doing it rather well. However, I had something to contribute to the confusing of 50 Shades as a supposed example of BDSM. I had even more to contribute to the subject of confusing kidnapping and rape with BDSM.

You put a lot of thought into your ideas, but the problem here is that you're making assumptions about BDSM relationships without researching what they traditionally entail, and apparently assuming that sexual assault = BDSM. This does not reflect the reality at all.

[Hellion Rex]

 

I can't help but notice I seem to be dealing with the same people in every thread (AresKeith, Natashina, Artifice) just what are you guys at any rate? Demisexual gay KISA's with sadomasochistic tendencies? Is it even possible to be all those things? I'm not sure how else you could be in every single discussion lol...

part of a regular relationship as a random person (sort of like the one night stand version of BSDM).

Oh for the love of God...heaven forbid that we just like discussing this sort of stuff in the feedback section of the forums...

[AresKeith]

I can't help but notice I seem to be dealing with the same people in every thread (AresKeith, Natashina, Artifice) just what are you guys at any rate? Demisexual gay KISA's with sadomasochistic tendencies? Is it even possible to be all those things? I'm not sure how else you could be in every single discussion lol...

 

What? 

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

What? 

 

Don't be silly, Keith. Only demisexual gay KISAs with sadomasochistic tendencies would discuss games or disagree with people in an online forum. Everyone knows this.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Keith's a fellow lesbro tbh.

[AresKeith]

Keith's a fellow lesbro tbh.

 

I mastered lesbomancy

[Grieving Natashina]

Well, this thread has certainly been worth the read.  I'm used to odd threads on the BSN, but this will probably go down as the more surreal one I've seen in spring yet.

 

Spoiler

[AresKeith]

Well, this thread has certainly been worth the read.  I'm used to odd threads on the BSN, but this will probably go down as the more surreal one I've seen in spring yet.

 

Spoiler

 

Great movie

[TheOgre]

Well that was my point, it's all fundamentally roleplay, but it seems to me sometimes it's the BDSM players that shy away from that kind of stuff at times ironically (not all necessarily), not the Vanilla types so much.

 

It seems like they tend to focus more on the BDSM and less on the sex... anyway just random observations at any rate. It's also just something to think about if you ever want to see more media with it, do you mix it with sex or have it be kind of extreme control fluctuations? Do you have as a part of a regular relationship as a random person (sort of like the one night stand version of BSDM).

 

Then a lot of those players are boring or I guess I'm just not in their camp then hah.

[andy6915]

You know, I agree with that post way back in the thread-
 
 
 

So...I evidently documented the whole IB-romance as a male-Qunari (it is in my youtube-playlist if someone is curious God please let people be curious I had to play DAI for that) and I didn't know I was doing BD...something romance. I no kidding you here. Propably because I'm not even curious about all that, it never even came to my mind. Lol, all I was thinking when first sex-scene (what sex-scene there was no sex shown) came that omg, IB must have a HUGE...ehm...that thing...and my Qunari propably has to take it, and later IB says that "actually it has been him taking it" which just verified my thoughts of...you know...my Qunari and IB and his huge...you know.
 
Point: people do interpretations from their stand point...or point of view or how you say it in English. Anal-sex is not a "must" in gay-relationships, or so I've been told. Yet that was what I was thinking.  Point: we should not believe that things in games/movies/books even try to be realistic. Or are a some sort of example of reality. I dunno how to say this better.
 
Btw 50 shades or Yack is utter rubbish and I find it scary that some women think it is romantic. Some wannabe-writer found a way to monetize co-dependency, obviously.

 
 
about how they just interpreted it as I.B being very... Endowed. Like he was pretty much saying "I have a 12 incher, I rival horses in terms of size, are you absolutely sure you want this?". It didn't occur to me that he meant BDSM, just that he was implying that his sex organ was going to basically break you in half with its sheer size combined with his own very strong and muscular body. Basically like when Sten trolled Morrigan, saying she would need to wear a helmet and armor and would need a heated metal bar to get him to back off if he got rough during the act. I.B was just warning you that he is impressive enough between the legs that he wants to be absolutely sure that you think you can take it well enough to not have internal injury afterward, he didn't want to make any holes of your body permanently bigger without getting your full consent. Having sex with him would be like giving birth in reverse, which is why he constantly made sure that it's what you really wanted. Qunari men having enormous penises is something I've pretty much had as a head-canon since DAO, and I.B only reinforced that. I find it kinda weird that this interpretation is apparently uncommon.

[Lady Artifice]

So, since I see you made some edits to your post, I will respond to those specific edits. 

 

It was probably ultimately less "harmful" than much BDSM play is my point.

 

The fact that you assume that BDSM is harmful in the first place is part of the problem. 

 

 

 

Maybe if someone here wants to illustrate just what is so wrong about 50 Shades of Gray (not from a writing but conceptual perspective), I never saw it, it never seemed that crazy though.

 

 

My accusation of assault was in response to the Outlander scene that you cited, not 50 Shades. Though if you like, I can certainly reiterate the problem with looking at 50 Shades as a definitive example of BDSM. 

 

quoting myself:

 

The representative of BDSM in that series is eventually revealed to be motivated out of rage, a desire to revenge himself against his negligent mother. So he "punishes" women who look like her. It is not about sharing pleasure in the least, and his compulsion toward BDSM is treated like something he needs to be cured of and is very much linked together and confused with actual abusive behavior. 

 

 

 

 

I can't help but notice I seem to be dealing with the same people in every thread (AresKeith, Natashina, Artifice) just what are you guys at any rate? Demisexual gay KISA's with sadomasochistic tendencies? Is it even possible to be all those things? I'm not sure how else you could be in every single discussion lol...

 

 

I'm straight. I haven't much participated in the demisexuality thread, and I mostly spend time in the KISA thread because I like the company. Of course, your own presence in each of those threads is a testament to the fact that one does not need to be be part of a topic's principle demographic to engage in that topic discussion. 

 

As for your edit: I'm sure it is possible. But as mentioned above, a thread's subject doesn't dictate who may post in in it. Just as you may post in this thread while not actually being very familiar with what BDSM actually is, so may I post the Gay KISA thread while being neither a. Gay or b. a Knight. 

 

I might even say that it's ironic that you mention my involvement, when you seem more active in each of the threads you reference than I am (demisexual romance thread in particular). 

[DaemionMoadrin]

Er it sure looked like BDSM to me? My understanding is the line is the line distinguishing between the two is rather arbitrary. He never actually harms her really in any way (does not take advantage of her sexually nor uses the knife), it was basically all for show I guess. It was probably ultimately less "harmful" than much BDSM play is my point.

 

Maybe if someone here wants to illustrate just what is so wrong about 50 Shades of Gray (not from a writing but conceptual perspective), I never saw it, it never seemed that crazy though.

 

 

Well that was my point, it's all fundamentally roleplay, but it seems to me sometimes it's the BDSM players that shy away from that kind of stuff at times ironically (not all necessarily), not the Vanilla types so much.

 

It seems like they tend to focus more on the BDSM and less on the sex... anyway just random observations at any rate. It's also just something to think about if you ever want to see more media with it, do you mix it with sex or have it be kind of extreme control fluctuations? Do you have as a part of a regular relationship as a random person (sort of like the one night stand version of BSDM).

 

I can't help but notice I seem to be dealing with the same people in every thread (AresKeith, Natashina, Artifice) just what are you guys at any rate? Demisexual gay KISA's with sadomasochistic tendencies? Is it even possible to be all those things? I'm not sure how else you could be in every single discussion lol...

 

You can't possibly be that obtuse, which means you're doing this stupidity act on purpose. I wonder why you feel the need to do that?

 

I don't know where you got that example (does it even exist or did you make it up?) but it is very clearly assault and borderline rape. Basically textbook felonies. That has absolutely nothing to do with BDSM and you -know- that since you read this thread where there are pages upon pages talking about the importance of consent.

Nothing in BDSM happens against the will of the submissive partner. Even non-consensual roleplay is negotiated in advance, with limits and safewords and so on. Your example is nothing like it.

Imagine it happening to you personally, would you think, "Oh, kinky!" or would you fear for your life?

 

50 Shades is awful because the author has no clue about BDSM and the characters have psychological issues, the entire relationship is unhealthy from beginning to end and BDSM is something the main character needs to be healed from. Or something. Only read the summary and that was enough to hate it with a passion.

 

No, stop arguing. Nothing you said in this thread was new, your theories are not going to be accepted and that has nothing to do with people not being ready for them yet. Just the opposite, really. We've heard it all before.

 

You are making a lot of assumption that are completely wrong, you ask leading questions that only enforce your viewpoint when answered and seriously... just read the thread, it's all been said already.

 

There is also no way anyone here will answer your personal questions. What we do in private is none of your business and no one is going to give you material you can use to attack us. It's not relevant to the discussion, so stop it please.

 

Honestly, what do you want? If you were genuinely curious, you'd be looking up these things yourself, you wouldn't ask about it in a gaming forum... certaintly not in public. So what's your motivation? Are you out to prove that BDSM is not what everyone but you says it is?

 

 

about how they just interpreted it as I.B being very... Endowed. Like he was pretty much saying "I have a 12 incher, I rival horses in terms of size, are you absolutely sure you want this?". It didn't occur to me that he meant BDSM, just that he was implying that his sex organ was going to basically break you in half with its sheer size combined with his own very strong and muscular body. Basically like when Sten trolled Morrigan, saying she would need to wear a helmet and armor and would need a heated metal bar to get him to back off if he got rough during the act. I.B was just warning you that he is impressive enough between the legs that he wants to be absolutely sure that you think you can take it well enough to not have internal injury afterward, he didn't want to make any holes of your body permanently bigger without getting your full consent. Having sex with him would be like giving birth in reverse, which is why he constantly made sure that it's what you really wanted. Qunari men having enormous penises is something I've pretty much had as a head-canon since DAO, and I.B only reinforced that. I find it kinda weird that this interpretation is apparently uncommon.

 

Why would it be weird? The following cutscenes and conversations make it very clear that IB was not talking about his size. I can see why someone could get the impression from the cryptic comments IB made but that should only last till the next conversation starts.