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[In Exile]

None of that is making me like that trash any better. Even his "company" is a joke. A bunch of castaway losers led by a bigger loser. Oh, how grand. Nah, I'm just not an Iron Bull fan, and the funny thing is, the Inquisition Qunari was the reason I was MOST excited before release. 

 

Edit: The only one I actually like from amongst that lot is Krem, and I like him extremely much. I just WISH that Krem was the companion instead of Bull. But, no, the singlemost likeable character, and we have to kill him. What fun.

 

I'm not saying you should like them. You just asked why the IB is so different. That's my theory. 

[vertigomez]

Hmm.. I didn't leap to noncon.. I went to the part where it's "my way or the highway". It's disturbing that people would consider this S&M. It seemed more like "I will do what I want whenever I want, if you don't like it, tough like i'm outta here".

I guess I can sorta see where people got that impression, but I... didn't get that at all. To me it simply means that Bull's a top and he's only really interested in having sex with the Inquisitor one "way". There's nothing wrong with that. If that's the kind of sexual relationship he needs to be happy and fulfilled - great! If that's not what the Inquisitor is looking for, then they have every opportunity to walk away, no hard feelings.

I mean, I'm a sub and if someone wanted me to be their Dom I'd be like... "Err no, sorry not happening." Doesn't matter how much I like 'em. That just doesn't do it for me.

[frankf43]

I think the thing with BDSM is that although you have consent and safe words but you roleplay that you don't. Now because this is a fantasy setting anyway rather than RL they may have left out the safe words and consent to conceptualize the rolepaly aspect of BDSM rather than the RL aspect. 

[DaemionMoadrin]

Hahahahaha oh lawd, topic's barely started and we're already at "Bull's a rapist! I know because somebody told me that once!!1"

Dude asks for the PC's consent over and over and over. If you're not down for the kind of sex he's into, you can say no. You have MULTIPLE opportunities to do so. Bull's not gonna change his predilections just for you, and if he was a sub nobody would give two craps that he wasn't interested in switching it up. But oh no, Bull's a top, time to question his motives!

I'm just gonna leave this here and go on my merry way: Riding the Bull - Kink and Dragon Age: Inquisition.

 

Because of this thread I watched all the romance scenes with IB again. Btw... no one said anything about rape. The Inquisitor sure didn't and they should know best.

 

It starts with him in your room, sitting on your bed and proclaiming "You want to ride the Bull!". The Inquisitor goes along with it and all the time they are only talking about sex. IB never mentions being in charge, never mentions other activities, never explains anything and just makes cryptic remarks of it being "not what you think it is".

The explanations come the next day. Which is too late. He basically springs that surprise on you without your consent. It only works out because it's a story. The Inquisitor never got a chance to say if they are into BDSM or not. IB sure didn't ask.

 

Being stubborn and set in his way doesn't make him dominant; enforcing his view of things makes him an *******.

[DirkJake]

As a person who is not into BDSM myself, I've been reading into BDSM people's opinions on IB. And wow these opinions are divided. Some say it's great representation of BDSM. Some says it's terrible. And some say it's an abuse.

 

I hope this thread enlightens me.

[vertigomez]

Because of this thread I watched all the romance scenes with IB again. Btw... no one said anything about rape. The Inquisitor sure didn't and they should know best.
 
It starts with him in your room, sitting on your bed and proclaiming "You want to ride the Bull!". The Inquisitor goes along with it and all the time they are only talking about sex. IB never mentions being in charge, never mentions other activities, never explains anything and just makes cryptic remarks of it being "not what you think it is".
The explanations come the next day. Which is too late. He basically springs that surprise on you without your consent. It only works out because it's a story. The Inquisitor never got a chance to say if they are into BDSM or not. IB sure didn't ask.
 
Being stubborn and set in his way doesn't make him dominant; enforcing his view of things makes him an *******.

Except they do. He holds your wrists all sexily, and you can say "nope nope nope changed my mind" or you can go "a little slower and a LOT harder!"

There's no indication that he tied you up and flogged you without your permission.

[WildOrchid]

I personally don't call IB a rapist btw, he's far from it.

[Octarin]

As a person who is not into BDSM myself, I've been reading into BDSM people's opinions on IB. And wow these opinions are divided. Some say it's great representation of BDSM. Some says it's terrible. And some say it's an abuse.

 

I hope this thread enlightens me.

 

People who don't know what abuse really is will always cry "abuse!" at anything they deem "dangerous"...

[Panda]

Because of this thread I watched all the romance scenes with IB again. Btw... no one said anything about rape. The Inquisitor sure didn't and they should know best.

 

It starts with him in your room, sitting on your bed and proclaiming "You want to ride the Bull!". The Inquisitor goes along with it and all the time they are only talking about sex. IB never mentions being in charge, never mentions other activities, never explains anything and just makes cryptic remarks of it being "not what you think it is".

The explanations come the next day. Which is too late. He basically springs that surprise on you without your consent. It only works out because it's a story. The Inquisitor never got a chance to say if they are into BDSM or not. IB sure didn't ask.

 

Being stubborn and set in his way doesn't make him dominant; enforcing his view of things makes him an *******.

 

However we don't really know what happens in the actual sex part. We don't know if BDSM was involved or was it only rough sex. We don't know if Iron Bull proposed other things and if Inquisitor gave consent to them. We just know that he likes it rough and asked consent many times before sex. That's my take on the scene at least.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I guess I can sorta see where people got that impression, but I... didn't get that at all. To me it simply means that Bull's a top and he's only really interested in having sex with the Inquisitor one "way". There's nothing wrong with that. If that's the kind of sexual relationship he needs to be happy and fulfilled - great! If that's not what the Inquisitor is looking for, then they have every opportunity to walk away, no hard feelings.

I mean, I'm a sub and if someone wanted me to be their Dom I'd be like... "Err no, sorry not happening." Doesn't matter how much I like 'em. That just doesn't do it for me.

 

I agree with that. There's nothing wrong with IB wanting the kind of relationship that works for him.

 

The problem is, he should have explained that and talked about it with the Inquisitor before dragging them off to bed. Not the next day.

 

I mean okay, it's a story and not everything has to be perfectly realistic... but would you have gone along with him in RL? Would you have been happy with being surprised that way, if you had no prior knowledge of BDSM? Because I have trouble wrapping my head around that issue.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Except they do. He holds your wrists all sexily, and you can say "nope nope nope changed my mind" or you can go "a little slower and a LOT harder!"

There's no indication that he tied you up and flogged you without your permission.

 

So far they only talked about (rough) sex. It's only in the light of the following conversations that it is put into context, because clearly something else also happened that night.

 

However we don't really know what happens in the actual sex part. We don't know if BDSM was involved or was it only rough sex. We don't know if Iron Bull proposed other things and if Inquisitor gave consent to them. We just know that he likes it rough and asked consent many times before sex. That's my take on the scene at least.

 

Fair point. We do not know what happened after the scene cuts off. Only... why would he explain things the next day, if he already did so during the night?

[MyKingdomCold]

I don't know. I think the way he lifts you up and says, "last chance" when you act surprised is an indication that something "different" is about to happen.

[Octarin]

 

Except they do. He holds your wrists all sexily, and you can say "nope nope nope changed my mind" or you can go "a little slower and a LOT harder!"

There's no indication that he tied you up and flogged you without your permission.

 

Just because he holds your wrists and f@cks you hard doesn't make it BDSM. Do you even know how BDSM is actually defined? I really doubt you do. I just think you went out read/watched FSOG thought it was kinky, and then just about everything that you think fits under the obscure title, you label it BDSM. Being unable to discriminate between rough sex and BDSM doesn't make you an expert, it makes you ignorant, and it doesn't make this scene BDSM. It's rough sex. Apparently rough sex with an @sshole. Being an @sshole doesn't make you a Master or a Dom. Being deceived or duped by someone you trusted enough to share your insides doesn't make you a sub, it makes you conned and potentially hurt. 

[vertigomez]

I agree with that. There's nothing wrong with IB wanting the kind of relationship that works for him.
 
The problem is, he should have explained that and talked about it with the Inquisitor before dragging them off to bed. Not the next day.
 
I mean okay, it's a story and not everything has to be perfectly realistic... but would you have gone along with him in RL? Would you have been happy with being surprised that way, if you had no prior knowledge of BDSM? Because I have trouble wrapping my head around that issue.

To be fair, we have no idea what happened in that bedroom. All we know is that, presuming you said yes, the Inquisitor had their hands restrained for, like, point two seconds before rather breathlessly agreeing. Then the hands were let go, and he pulled you close.

That's it. And, yeah... that's pretty okay to me? It's not like he whipped out riding crop and gimp mask before asking you first...

[DaemionMoadrin]

I don't know. I think the way he lifts you up and says, "last chance" when you act surprised is an indication that something "different" is about to happen.

 

It would still be really bad communication. The Inquisitor has no idea what's going to happen, making cryptic remarks is not very helpful at that point.

[vertigomez]

Just because he holds your wrists and f@cks you hard doesn't make it BDSM. Do you even know how BDSM is actually defined? I really doubt you do. I just think you went out read/watched FSOG thought it was kinky, and then just about everything that you think fits under the obscure title, you label it BDSM. Being unable to discriminate between rough sex and BDSM doesn't make you an expert, it makes you ignorant, and it doesn't make this scene BDSM. It's rough sex. Apparently rough sex with an @sshole. Being an @sshole doesn't make you a Master or a Dom. Being deceived or duped by someone you trusted enough to share your insides doesn't make you a sub, it makes you conned and potentially hurt.

Lolol, don't presume you know my experience, thanks.

I understand why this makes some people antsy, but again - fade to black. We have no idea what happened, we just know that Bull is big on consent and safewords and not hurting people he cares about.

[Panda]

So far they only talked about (rough) sex. It's only in the light of the following conversations that it is put into context, because clearly something else also happened that night.

 

 

Fair point. We do not know what happened after the scene cuts off. Only... why would he explain things the next day, if he already did so during the night?

 

Well I imagine that Iron Bull asked consent on certain specific things rather quickly and later on he explains what romancing him means. So I think he asked first permission only to sex and things it involved and next day explained more about whole BDSM thing and how it would go with him if Inquisitor wants to continue.

 

This is how I at least interpret whole thing, but others can have other interpretations on how it goes

[Octarin]

Lolol, don't presume you know my experience, thanks.

I understand why this makes some people antsy, but again - fade to black. We have no idea what happened, we just know that Bull is big on consent and safewords and not hurting people he cares about.

 

Since you don't know what happened, why are you quick to jump to conclude this happened instead of that? Or is it that you know what happened on and off according to suitability for the purposes of the conversation?

 

Furthermore, yes I presume to guess at your experiences by the mere fact that you repeatedly fail to understand the very simple thing that DaemionMoradin has pointed out, several times already. And that's a really big indicator, yeah.

[DaemionMoadrin]

To be fair, we have no idea what happened in that bedroom. All we know is that, presuming you said yes, the Inquisitor had their hands restrained for, like, point two seconds before rather breathlessly agreeing. Then the hands were let go, and he pulled you close.

That's it. And, yeah... that's pretty okay to me? It's not like he whipped out riding crop and gimp mask before asking you first...

 

I admit, I may be overly critical on this issue because there are so many people who have no clue but think they do because of "insert popular media here". Every couple of years a book or movie comes around that gives people ideas but no actual knowledge. As a result you see an increase of special injuries in the ER, of people getting stuck in cheap handcuffs and, sadly, people who need counseling.

 

What many people don't understand is that these things don't have to be physical. There is a lot going on mentally, too. It's a common tactic of ******* doms to find and exploit weaknesses, to instill doubt and to tear someone apart, so they can rebuild them to their liking. I've seen traces of that in IB and how he talks to the Inquisitor later on.

 

The consent thing... uh. You may be really into something, enjoy it tremendously... but if it is done to you without you getting a chance to say yes, then it's still bad. Even if you enjoyed it. I can think of a few examples but I'm not sure if that would still comply with the rules of this forum.

[vertigomez]

Look, I think this is just gonna be one of those agree to disagree situations.

I understand BDSM. I never claimed that it was wholly sexual, but since we were talking about it in the context of a sex scene, that's specifically what I was addressing.

I just feel like, given that - for all we know - Bull's writer Patrick Weekes may have zero experience with the lifestyle... what we got was pretty damn good. It would probably have been even BETTER and clearer if the romance had been written by a kinky person, but given that safewords and aftercare were actually addressed in a video game romance, I'm gonna take what I can get.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Look, I think this is just gonna be one of those agree to disagree situations.

I understand BDSM. I never claimed that it was wholly sexual, but since we were talking about it in the context of a sex scene, that's specifically what I was addressing.

I just feel like, given that - for all we know - Bull's writer Patrick Weekes may have zero experience with the lifestyle... what we got was pretty damn good. It would probably have been even BETTER and clearer if the romance had been written by a kinky person, but given that safewords and aftercare were actually addressed in a video game romance, I'm gonna take what I can get.

 

I can agree with that. It is better than nothing.

 

I just hope that the majority of players who don't have our knowledge/experience can see things the same and won't take IB as an example.

[Octarin]

Look, I think this is just gonna be one of those agree to disagree situations.

I understand BDSM. I never claimed that it was wholly sexual, but since we were talking about it in the context of a sex scene, that's specifically what I was addressing.

I just feel like, given that - for all we know - Bull's writer Patrick Weekes may have zero experience with the lifestyle... what we got was pretty damn good. It would probably have been even BETTER and clearer if the romance had been written by a kinky person, but given that safewords and aftercare were actually addressed in a video game romance, I'm gonna take what I can get.

 

Well, that's the point innit? We're NOT talking solely from within the context of a sex scene. And even if we were, we still wouldn't be. Because the presumption that "a sex scene is just a sex scene" exists only in porn, because that's the only place where sex is devoid of absolutely anything and everything else. Romance isn't a sex scene devoid of absolutely everything and anything else bar meat-goes-in, meat-comes-out. Romance is a quid-pro-quo between two people with varying amounts of trust invested. So, this is not "just a sex scene", and we're not talking from within the confines of that. Romance extends to the day after, and includes the bad behaviour portrayed. I don't give two hoots about what Iron Bull's writer knows or doesn't, and couldn't care any less. He chose to portray him as an @*******, pure and simple. Maybe he chose to portray an @******* who thinks he knows what he's on about but really doesn't know jack sh@t, which, for all intents and purposes I would be much inclined to believe. 

[vertigomez]

I can agree with that. It is better than nothing.
 
I just hope that the majority of players who don't have our knowledge/experience can see things the same and won't take IB as an example.

I agree. I would hope that anybody who's actually genuinely interested in BDSM would do a crapton of research and self-reflection before attempting anything in their personal life, but that'd be true whether IB sparked their interest or not.

[AresKeith]

Well, that's the point innit? We're NOT talking solely from within the context of a sex scene. And even if we were, we still wouldn't be. Because the presumption that "a sex scene is just a sex scene" exists only in porn, because that's the only place where sex is devoid of absolutely anything and everything else. Romance isn't a sex scene devoid of absolutely everything and anything else bar meat-goes-in, meat-comes-out. Romance is a quid-pro-quo between two people with varying amounts of trust invested. So, this is not "just a sex scene", and we're not talking from within the confines of that. Romance extends to the day after, and includes the bad behaviour portrayed. I don't give two hoots about what Iron Bull's writer knows or doesn't, and couldn't care any less. He chose to portray him as an @*******, pure and simple. Maybe he chose to portray an @******* who thinks he knows what he's on about but really doesn't know jack sh@t, which, for all intents and purposes I would be much inclined to believe. 

 

You are taking this WAAYYYY too seriously 

[Octarin]

You are taking this WAAYYYY too seriously 

 

Yes I am. 

 

Edit: Write me down as "she hates Iron Bull" and disregard.