I can see James as a Spectre in the future. He was faced with a hard choice once and made the right call. A Spectre would've done the same. He's a great fighter too. But he needs to work on his diplomatic skills to be able to get the position. In that sense I find it easier to see Kaidan as a Spectre, not Ash. Ash is too blunt for such a position IMO. Plus the requirements of working with and for aliens
No he's working for a certain video game company.
He's got the I.Q for it alright.
But no matter what you do, Garrus gave up being C-Sec officer and gave up trying to be a Spectre even under Shepard's guidance. He has the right skill sets for either of those two but unlike Shepard, he have trouble in finding the right calling. He is best as a lone wolf (which Shepard isn't) but he could slip into Saren's path if he's not careful. He has good intentions but he doesn't prioritize or think things ahead well. He brought the wrath of the heads of entire criminal syndicates and jeopardize his squad's life that he fail to recognize that the blame rest on his shoulder as well. Instead of sorting out that issues, he became driven to shoot his problem away by killing Sidonis. He's a rebel without a cause... but by ME3, he finally sort out his issues and go to his father. In reality, he is the product of his father's guidance rather than Shepard's. And it shows when he fits comfortably as a military tactician and advisor to the Turian Hierarchy which mirrored his father's relationship with the previous Primarch rather than Shepard and Anderson.
I disagree with most of this.
Garrus' thing has always been "go after the problem, screw the rules". Something a certain first human Spectre has also done on several occasions. A protege doesn't always have to follow every bit of advice the mentor gives. Garrus abandoning the paths of ME1 is not a problem because it's consistent with the aforementioned mindset, and is once again a mirror of Shepard's path (albeit more willingly so). I think you're way off the mark with blaming him for his squad's death. Unlike Zaeed he takes every precaution to ensure his people come out alive. Sidonis was a traitor. Treachery wouldn't be so problematic if it was easy to sniff out or deal with after the fact. And Garrus in ME3 is again similar to Shepard being back into the fold working with his race in an official capacity to resist the Reapers. The difference is neither him nor the turians are given as large an idiot ball to hold as Shepard and the Alliance.
Garrus isn't a carbon copy of Shepard by any means. Not that matters as the differences between Anderson and Shepard are even greater. But he is the closest in actions and again, is acknowledged canonically as living in his shadow.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
The difference is neither him nor the turians are given as large an idiot ball to hold as Shepard and the Alliance.
It doesn't look like anyone's doing much. Employing a former teammate isn't much in the big picture. The Turians hiring Garrus' is no different than Hackett employing Liara (or Bryson, if you played that). Or whatever Alliance brass (Anderson?) hired Jack and/or Kahlee to start focusing on war. All of it is kind of shooting in the dark, except Liara gets lucky.
The only one with a real plan is TIM. An insane plan, but a plan nonetheless.
It doesn't look like anyone's doing much. Employing a former teammate isn't much in the big picture. The Turians hiring Garrus' is no different than Hackett employing Liara (or Bryson, if you played that). Or whatever Alliance brass (Anderson?) hired Jack and/or Kahlee to start focusing on war. All of it is kind of shooting in the dark, except Liara gets lucky.
The only one with a real plan is TIM. An insane plan, but a plan nonetheless.
This doesn't contradict my statement. Everyone has the idiot ball. The turians do seem to hold it a little less than everybody else though.
It was a turian's suggestion that kicked off the unification effort for example. And giving someone a task force, even if it's only token and political is basically rocket science compared to throwing then in prison over bullshit charges.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
This doesn't contradict my statement. Everyone has the idiot ball. The turians do seem to hold it a little less than everybody else though.
It was a turian's suggestion that kicked off the unification effort for example. And giving someone a task force, even if it's only token and political is basically rocket science compared to throwing then in prison over bullshit charges.
I'll agree with that. I'm not happy about starting the game incarcerated.
I think the first thing I like saying to TIM on Mars is "Give me your resources..." Already at that point, I'm ready to work with him again (although I'd never follow his plan).
I don't trust TIM. And I'm not really impressed by him. But it's a dire situation. Ruling out potential aid is dumb. I can work with him... on my terms.
Unfortunately he's a lost cause.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I suggest you to read Mass Effect Homeworlds 3# to learn exactly what happened to his team. Yes, it was his fault. He became so deluded by his moniker, Archangel of Omega, that doesn't know when to stop. He want to keep fighting for the cause because for him, it gave him a reason to live. He still think he's a one-man show and he was too stubborn to see the bigger picture. He made great and powerful enemies and basically signed everyone to their death. Sidonis isn't a traitor. He was captured and forced to betray his own people and set loose with the fear that Garrus' would come for him. And this is the official canon.From all your replies, you want Garrus to be the perfect bro for Shepard. You see Garrus as this sidekick being overshadowed by his legendary mentor. The overshadowed part isn't wrong (its just an assessment by the Shadow Broker) but 'mentor' was never in the equation. Garrus isn't Telemachus and Shepard isn't Athena in disguised trying to make the spoiled young prince to grow a spine. Garrus have troubles sorting out his priorities and he simply undergoing a last minute rebellion against his father from ME1 to ME2. He's already the man he is. What Shepard really do was simply knocking Garrus off the mid-life crisis train and back to the reality.
To Garrus' credit, he was smart enough not to **** with Aria. I always thought that was a funny, unspoken bit of the Omega story.
If he really wanted to be like my Shepard though, he'd have tried to work with the other gangs more. I never saw myself being so hellbent on those kind of crimes. That's always been Garrus' deal. He's a cop. My dude is an ex-gang member himself. He didn't learn it from me. Same with Harkin in ME2... the guy's an ass for sending those mechs to attack, but his actual job isn't so bad. Forging IDs and relocation. That hardly qualifies as a "menace". Hell, Harkin could be useful to me later.
I suggest you to read Mass Effect Homeworlds 3# to learn exactly what happened to his team. Yes, it was his fault. He became so deluded by his moniker, Archangel of Omega, that doesn't know when to stop. He want to keep fighting for the cause because for him, it gave him a reason to live. He still think he's a one-man show and he was too stubborn to see the bigger picture. He made great and powerful enemies and basically signed everyone to their death. Sidonis isn't a traitor. He was captured and forced to betray his own people and set loose with the fear that Garrus' would come for him. And this is the official canon.
And?
Betrayal is betrayal. And saying things like "doesn't know when to stop" and "didn't see the bigger picture" makes you sound like an Omega apologist. You do know the kind of people he was fighting, yes? Oh and let's not forget,
"Thinks he's a one man show. Recruits team of badasses" Seems legit.
He was a vigilante, yes. He hit most if not all the vigilante tropes, sure. So what? If your entire point is he bit off more than he can chew, then I can only point to the Reapers and barely contain my chortles. The real difference between Garrus and Shepard is that only one is the protagonist Space Jesus. Now I wish they had done a squadmate betrayal story for Shepard. I think if they had, you'd see how well that was handled, or more specifically, how not all that different it would really be.
From all your replies, you want Garrus to be the perfect bro for Shepard. You see Garrus as this sidekick being overshadowed by his legendary mentor. The overshadowed part isn't wrong (its just an assessment by the Shadow Broker) but 'mentor' was never in the equation. Garrus isn't Telemachus and Shepard isn't Athena in disguised trying to make the spoiled young prince to grow a spine. Garrus have troubles sorting out his priorities and he simply undergoing a last minute rebellion against his father from ME1 to ME2. He's already the man he is. What Shepard really do was simply knocking Garrus off the mid-life crisis train and back to the reality.
What I want is irrelevant. What's relevant is what's in the game. And in the game Shepard mentors Garrus more than any other squadmate and Garrus' actions directly mimic Shepard's on several occasions. I never said Shepard's a father figure. That is a difference between Anderson-Shepard and Shepard-Garrus. But the relationship I mention does not require them to be.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
makes you sound like an Omega apologist.
That's a bad thing? Best area in the whole series. Everything's gone downhill since. 
Now I wish they had done a squadmate betrayal story for Shepard. I think if they had, you'd see how well that was handled, or more specifically, how not all that different it would really be.
They did. His name is Legion. I don't cut him any slack, but it seems a lot of players do.
That's a bad thing? Best area in the whole series. Everything's gone downhill since.
Meh. Though I will say that the Omega DLC felt like I was playing a different game. This is a good thing.
They did. His name is Legion. I don't cut him any slack, but it seems a lot of players do.
Weird. Legion never betrayed me. I think you're playing the wrong game.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Meh. Though I will say that the Omega DLC felt like I was playing a different game. This is a good thing.
Weird. Legion never betrayed me. I think you're playing the wrong game.
I'm playing the game where I let Legion join the suicide mission, because the Geth aren't the Heretics, who wished for the "Old Machines" to give them a future.
The one who praised me for destroying the Collector base, and said we were more alike than previously thought.
The fact that it does this later defeats the purpose on why I shook Legion's hand in the first place.
I'm playing the game where I let Legion join the suicide mission, because the Geth aren't the Heretics, who wished for the "Old Machines" to give them a future.
The one who praised me for destroying the Collector base, and said we were more alike than previously thought.
The fact that it does this later defeats the purpose on why I shook Legion's hand in the first place.
Yes, but are you also playing the game where the idiot quarians launch yet another unprovoked attack that does critical damage for some reason and brings the geth to the brink of extinction? And also the one where after defeating the Reaper controlling them and ending the threat, said idiot quarians continue attacking unless you shout/threaten them into submission?
Honestly, come to think of it the quarians are the ones wasting my time and putting me and my crew in danger repeatedly in the middle of the damn Reaper Apocalypse. I could probably stick the treason charge on them. The penalty is death by irony.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Yes, but are you also playing the game where the idiot quarians launch yet another unprovoked attack that does critical damage for some reason and brings the geth to the brink of extinction? And also the one where after defeating the Reaper controlling them and ending the threat, said idiot quarians continue attacking unless you shout/threaten them into submission?
Honestly, come to think of it the quarians are the ones wasting my time and putting me and my crew in danger repeatedly in the middle of the damn Reaper Apocalypse. I could probably stick the treason charge on them. The penalty is death by irony.
So what? Organics are nuking their own planets instead of being entrapped by Reapers. People on earth are dying in a similarly defiant way, albeit less dramatic... which is one of the things that provokes EDI to do exactly the opposite of Legion. She's more determined to fight the Reapers, because of the Earth example.
And this was pretty much my own lines in ME1 against Saren. "I'd rather die than live as a slave."
Legion's no better than Sidonis. Which is what got you to mention Betrayal in the first place. He does the same thing. Works with the enemy to save his own ass.
And?
Betrayal is betrayal. And saying things like "doesn't know when to stop" and "didn't see the bigger picture" makes you sound like an Omega apologist. You do know the kind of people he was fighting, yes? Oh and let's not forget,
"Thinks he's a one man show. Recruits team of badasses" Seems legit.
He was a vigilante, yes. He hit most if not all the vigilante tropes, sure. So what? If your entire point is he bit off more than he can chew, then I can only point to the Reapers and barely contain my chortles. The real difference between Garrus and Shepard is that only one is the protagonist Space Jesus. Now I wish they had done a squadmate betrayal story for Shepard. I think if they had, you'd see how well that was handled, or more specifically, how not all that different it would really be.
What I want is irrelevant. What's relevant is what's in the game. And in the game Shepard mentors Garrus more than any other squadmate and Garrus' actions directly mimic Shepard's on several occasions. I never said Shepard's a father figure. That is a difference between Anderson-Shepard and Shepard-Garrus. But the relationship I mention does not require them to be.
I never really took shine with his dark knight plot because Citadel was nearly in ruins and all he could think about was going after the people who made his life miserable as a cop and act like he's the savior of Omega like there's a shortage of corrupt criminal people on Citadel. James response to his smug "I am Archangel" was appropriate. So what if he lowered crime rates and pissed off criminal big bosses and got his squad killed. Nobody on Omega remembered him because nobody care. He's only credited to the creation of a power vacuum which allow Talon to gain a better foothold on Omega and that's it.
Nyreen Kandros reformed one of the biggest criminal group and lead a rebellion against Cerberus occupation and that did more good for the people of Omega because she know how to play the game while Garrus don't. And she actually died and became Talon's guardian angel and Talon became Omega new security force to honor her memories. Nyreen is literally a better Archangel than Garrus ever was.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I never really took shine with his dark knight plot because Citadel was nearly in ruins and all he could think about was going after the people who made his life miserable as a cop and act like he's the savior of Omega like there's a shortage of corrupt criminal people on Citadel. James response to his smug "I am Archangel" was appropriate. So what if he lowered crime rates and pissed off criminal big bosses and got his squad killed. Nobody on Omega remembered him because nobody care. He's only credited to the creation of a power vacuum which allow Talon to gain a better foothold on Omega and that's it.
Funnily, I didn't even think about this much, until I read Homeworlds. It suddenly dawned on me that the first thing he thought of after Sovereign was going to Omega. lol.
I still like Garrus, but his priorities are kind of funny.
Funnily, I didn't even think about this much, until I read Homeworlds. It suddenly dawned on me that the first thing he thought of after Sovereign was going to Omega. lol.
I still like Garrus, but his priorities are kind of funny.
What can I say, I critic books for a living... and I like that everyone in the game were a bunch of complex creatures (even Jacob, in his insignificant boringness). I always like that they include body languages and stuff. It made character dissection even more enjoyable.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
What can I say, I critic books for a living... and I like that everyone in the game were a bunch of complex creatures (even Jacob, in his insignificant boringness). I always like that they include body languages and stuff. It made character dissection even more enjoyable.
Sounds like a fun job.
But it puts Garrus in a negative light....which I didn't even consider before. Even Gabby and Ken, insignificant as they were, knew something had to be done about the Reapers. Their only option was Cerberus unfortunately (as is Shepard's).
Sounds like a fun job.
But it puts Garrus in a negative light....which I didn't even consider before. Even Gabby and Ken, insignificant as they were, knew something had to be done about the Reapers. Their only option was Cerberus unfortunately (as is Shepard's).
I do think every characters are complex but once you start analyzing closer, you'll notice certain flaws like favoritism in writing (especially with Liara and Garrus), nonsensical characterization, plot inconsistency, fan servicing, tropes and stuff. Being critical about a fiction and its content doesn't mean you're making them look bad, its just to provide some alternative perspective that you might miss in the first glance. Besides, I have fangirl moments with the most hated character in ME. Heh
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I do think every characters are complex but once you start analyzing closer, you'll notice certain flaws like favoritism in writing (especially with Liara and Garrus), nonsensical characterization, plot inconsistency, fan servicing, tropes and stuff. Being critical about a fiction and its content doesn't mean you're making them look bad, its just to provide some alternative perspective that you might miss in the first glance. Besides, I have fangirl moments with the most hated character in ME. Heh
Who's the most hated character? I'm at a loss.
Who's the most hated character? I'm at a loss.
Carth
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Carth
Heh..
If you mean Kaidan, it seems like he's pretty popular around here. Hell, that one recent poll had him at 3rd favored romance or something.
Heh..
If you mean Kaidan, it seems like he's pretty popular around here. Hell, that one recent poll had him at 3rd favored romance or something.
He does seem more popular here, but lord, step outside of BSN and mention his name and the vultures will descend, people really don't him.
He got really unlucky in ME1 by being made one of the Virmire choices, the majority of Mass Effect players are guys and they were always going to choose to save the hot girl. What was the Virmire stat Bioware gave out, something like 80% of players chose to leave Kaidan to die on Virmire, the dude really got the short end of the stick.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Oh yeah. How could I forget?
I still think Leng could've been a great character if they followed their original plan... look how many people like Brooks. That's somewhat like Leng's original part. People love a clever villain. Instead, he's just a cheap villain.
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