44 respuestas en este tema

[SuperJogi]

Keyword "usually". It all depends on what is damaged. Some system that is responsible for targeting? Some other system that is responsible for merging? Doesn't mean that other systems won't work.

 

I could believe that if the reapers knew what exactly the crucible was and where specificly targeting certain systems. That the crucible still works after getting damaged practicly randomly is highly unlikely. It's the equivalent of you firing a shotgun through your motherboard, and expecting your PC to start. And even if you can come up with some explaination, I think my original point still stands: It would have been more believable to simply let the player fail if EMS is too low.

 

High EMS --> Crucible works --> All options aviable

Low EMS --> Crucible doesn't work/gets destroyed --> Reapers win

[Vazgen]

I could believe that if the reapers knew what exactly the crucible was and where specificly targeting certain systems. That the crucible still works after getting damaged practicly randomly is highly unlikely. It's the equivalent of you firing a shotgun through your motherboard, and expecting your PC to start. And even if you can come up with some explaination, I think my original point still stands: It would have been more believable to simply let the player fail if EMS is too low.

 

High EMS --> Crucible works --> All options aviable

Low EMS --> Crucible doesn't work/gets destroyed --> Reapers win

I'm just saying it's possible. Unlikely, yes, but not nonsensical. I agree with your point Though it would've sucked to see your squadmates vaporized only to get "You fail, Reapers win" ending after that

[SuperJogi]

Though it would've sucked to see your squadmates vaporized only to get "You fail, Reapers win" ending after that

 

ME is extremely easy anyway, if you suck at it so hard, you deserve it.

But maybe I'm oldschool for believing that a game should let you fail if your bad at it.

[Suron]

No. He never did. 

 

"Even you are partly synthetic." is:

 

1)An ALLUSION that Destroy will affect Shepard, not that it will kill him.

2)An acknowledgement that Shepard is PARTLY synthetic.

 

Catalyst never says that Shepard will be terminated, he was only warning that the wave will affect Shepard due to his synthetic implants.

 

EDI, on the other hand, is fully synthetic. And built from Reaper code. She's almost exactly what the Destroy wave seemed primed to aim for. Almost. Maybe that 'almost' part (since she's not literally a Reaper) could have you hope against all hopelessness that she made it intact enough. But that's far from Shepard's situation.

You're right he doesn't specifically say Shepard will be killed but he does talk about the "destroy" affecting anything using reaper tech..."destroys" beam is ONLY meant to do exactly that...DESTROY...so if he says they'll be "affected" then he is all BUT specifically stating it..and the statement makes no sense otherwise.

 

EDI is fully synthetic but she's NOT fully Reaper.  Again it's no more likely or unlikely she could "survive" (memories/etc intact) AFTER the wave than any of the other handwaving "space-magic" we get in the trilogy.  Same with the Geth.  ESPECIALLY with the Geth.  WHY would the beam (capital for emphasis) destroy the parts of the Geth other than what's reaper tech? it's very VERY plausible, hell even LIKELY that the Geth WOULD survive "destroy" endings by simply losing the reaper upgrade code and being back to how they were originally (pre Legion sacrifice/reaper upgrades..ie how they were in ME1 and ME2)

 

Now same wiht Shepard.  We know at least part of his implants/cybernetics are Reaper-tech? how much we are never really told (but it's alluded to a substantial amount).....so the question, which is never answered, is...are the implants still really necessary? are they required to KEEP him alive? If I'm remembering correctly (and I may not be) In the beginning of ME2 either on one of the terminals or in one of the scenes says that they're foregoing regular tissue/organ regeneration and proceeding with implants to SPEED it up.  Once shepard is fully "regenerated" those implants/cybernetics may not even be necessary.  Like a cast used to help a broken bone mend.  Once the bone is mended you ditch the cast.  Only in this case obviously cybernetics also boosted shepards abilities...so you wouldn't just discard them.

 

And honestly I think the endings are supposed to be taken word-for-word..yes even staridiots ramblings.  I don't think BioWare intended the endings to have near the paths people can take them in as speculation.  But of course they're not really going to say so because the discussion/speculation keeps interest in ME as a whole...If they came out and specifically said "yeah guys the endings are meant at face value/as is. literally" then well interest and the topics would drop.  They of course want poeple to keep talking about them and hopefully stay interested for the next part(s) in the series.

 

So as I said, I see no reason in high-ems destroy for it to be impossible that Shepard, EDI, and the Geth all can still survive.  It's no more implausible than a lot of the "space magic" (as everyone calls it, I hate the term lol) we get anyway.

[themikefest]

I'm just saying it's possible. Unlikely, yes, but not nonsensical. I agree with your point Though it would've sucked to see your squadmates vaporized only to get "You fail, Reapers win" ending after that

I have no problem with the squadmates being killed, That should happen regardless of ems

[SuperJogi]

I have no problem with the squadmates being killed, That should happen regardless of ems

 

B..BB..BUT MUH HAPPY ENDING!!!11!

 

Or maybe let the player chose who he sends to their death. That would mean you would actually have to make difficult decisions without a coloured dialogue option giving you an easy way out. And add a tactical component to it so that if the player picks the wrong one he dies in vain and the mission fails.

Now thats what I would call CONSEQUENCE.

[themikefest]

B..BB..BUT MUH HAPPY ENDING!!!11!

 

Or maybe let the player chose who he sends to their death. That would mean you would actually have to make difficult decisions without a coloured dialogue option giving you an easy way out. And add a tactical component to it so that if the player picks the wrong one he dies in vain and the mission fails.

Now thats what I would call CONSEQUENCE.

The player wouldn't know the squadmates are killed until that moment on the first playthrough.  It also gets rid of the what-the-crap evac scene. If they survive, shouldn't all the folks that are running to the beam survive as well?

 

If the player was given a choice of who will die, the player most likely will pick the two they don't like.

[SuperJogi]

The player wouldn't know the squadmates are killed until that moment on the first playthrough.  It also gets rid of the what-the-crap evac scene. If they survive, shouldn't all the folks that are running to the beam survive as well?

 

If the player was given a choice of who will die, the player most likely will pick the two they don't like.

 

Yeah I know, I was just joking around a little. Is it too much to ask to see Talimancers beeing forced to kill their waifu?   

It probably would have been more logical to let the squadmates at the beam die, but sudden unexpected consequences like that are always a bit pointless in a game were you can load an older save at any time, so the result would still be that most players pick the characters they like the least. But yeah, that evac scene was pure service to the happy ending crowd.

[Vazgen]

ME is extremely easy anyway, if you suck at it so hard, you deserve it.

But maybe I'm oldschool for believing that a game should let you fail if your bad at it.

I'm a completionist so it would not really apply to me.

Such a failure is used in ME2 with Shepard dying, but to get that ending you have to suck as a leader and actively avoid game content. But low EMS does not have the same severity. More so, in ME3 Shepard succeeds throughout the game. Sabotage the cure - get the Salarians, kill quarians/geth - get geth/quarians. Turians support the player no matter what, as are asari. Whatever decisions you make, you unite the galaxy. Player can't really fail in ME3, even low EMS Destroy and Refuse accomplish the goal. And Refuse is basically the failure option you mention

[SwobyJ]

The problem is that BW had to find some way to make the dicisions made during the game, have an impact on the ending. That is the only reason EMS exists in the first place, a simple indicator of how well your doing. It's a gameplay mechanic, nothing more and it doesn't really make sense from an in universe perspective.

The fact that your EMS has an impact on how well the crucible functions is pretty nonsensical and I would attribute it to bad writing.

A far more sensible approach to make your decisions matter in the end is to simply make you lose if you make bad ones.

 

Good decisions --> Crucible gets build and activated --> You win --> Happy end

Bad decisions --> Cucible doesn't get build/activated --> You lose --> Bad end

 

It's far more logical and it allows you to make a true happy ending and a true bad one, not this bittersweet mishmash of "you saved the galaxy but everthing is destroyed" that no one is satisfied with.

I also find it pretty stupid to show your EMS in game. Of course a number like that is an easy way to determine which ending you're gonna get, but why show it? It makes it obvious to the player that the key to beating the reapers, is quite literally, putting up a new highscore. It destroys immersion by constantly reminding you that this is not a real world, it's just a videogame, where everything is just a number and if you want to have success you better get that number up! But of course, you somehow had to encourage people to play the multiplayer...

 

This works for me because I wonder about ME3 being a Reaper simulation. lol

 

But understandably, it doesn't work for most players. I get you.

[SwobyJ]

You're right he doesn't specifically say Shepard will be killed but he does talk about the "destroy" affecting anything using reaper tech..."destroys" beam is ONLY meant to do exactly that...DESTROY...so if he says they'll be "affected" then he is all BUT specifically stating it..and the statement makes no sense otherwise.

 

EDI is fully synthetic but she's NOT fully Reaper.  Again it's no more likely or unlikely she could "survive" (memories/etc intact) AFTER the wave than any of the other handwaving "space-magic" we get in the trilogy.  Same with the Geth.  ESPECIALLY with the Geth.  WHY would the beam (capital for emphasis) destroy the parts of the Geth other than what's reaper tech? it's very VERY plausible, hell even LIKELY that the Geth WOULD survive "destroy" endings by simply losing the reaper upgrade code and being back to how they were originally (pre Legion sacrifice/reaper upgrades..ie how they were in ME1 and ME2)

 

Now same wiht Shepard.  We know at least part of his implants/cybernetics are Reaper-tech? how much we are never really told (but it's alluded to a substantial amount).....so the question, which is never answered, is...are the implants still really necessary? are they required to KEEP him alive? If I'm remembering correctly (and I may not be) In the beginning of ME2 either on one of the terminals or in one of the scenes says that they're foregoing regular tissue/organ regeneration and proceeding with implants to SPEED it up.  Once shepard is fully "regenerated" those implants/cybernetics may not even be necessary.  Like a cast used to help a broken bone mend.  Once the bone is mended you ditch the cast.  Only in this case obviously cybernetics also boosted shepards abilities...so you wouldn't just discard them.

 

And honestly I think the endings are supposed to be taken word-for-word..yes even staridiots ramblings.  I don't think BioWare intended the endings to have near the paths people can take them in as speculation.  But of course they're not really going to say so because the discussion/speculation keeps interest in ME as a whole...If they came out and specifically said "yeah guys the endings are meant at face value/as is. literally" then well interest and the topics would drop.  They of course want poeple to keep talking about them and hopefully stay interested for the next part(s) in the series.

 

So as I said, I see no reason in high-ems destroy for it to be impossible that Shepard, EDI, and the Geth all can still survive.  It's no more implausible than a lot of the "space magic" (as everyone calls it, I hate the term lol) we get anyway.

 

I think its made clear enough that:

1)Shepard no longer completely needs the implants to survive. He is human, but with technology in him. On the cusp of being a definite transhuman but ultimately not clearly entirely being one.

2)Breath Destroy EMS refines the wave's targeting so it could do just the right amount of damage to Shepard's implants that it doesn't wreck his body enough to kill him.

 

EDI is not shown in any part of Destroy but is shown in Control and Synthesis. While Shepard can be, with high enough EMS. So as you said, 'take it as face value'. Go ahead.

 

Otherwise you're headcanoning. 'Speculations for everyone.' And go ahead with that. Just don't expect many to go along with "EDI can come back in post-Destroy!" just because you think it can happen.

[SwobyJ]

I'm a completionist so it would not really apply to me.

Such a failure is used in ME2 with Shepard dying, but to get that ending you have to suck as a leader and actively avoid game content. But low EMS does not have the same severity. More so, in ME3 Shepard succeeds throughout the game. Sabotage the cure - get the Salarians, kill quarians/geth - get geth/quarians. Turians support the player no matter what, as are asari. Whatever decisions you make, you unite the galaxy. Player can't really fail in ME3, even low EMS Destroy and Refuse accomplish the goal. And Refuse is basically the failure option you mention

 

Yeah, Shepard unites the galaxy no matter what, though 'the galaxy' gets redefined through Shepard's actions.

 

-Krogan? Salarian? What form?

-How much council support?

-Geth? Quarians? What form?

-Various levels of ex-Cerberus, secondary species, etc.

-Where might humanity stand at the end?

-How powerful have you made the Crucible be, and then how will you use it?

 

I still think that a post-Minimum-Destroy galaxy with maximum deaths throughout ME3 is a drastically different galactic community than a post-Synthesis with minimum deaths throughout ME3. You could argue in either that Shepard has failed or betrayed humanity, interestingly enough, depending on perspective.

[Vazgen]

Yes, the consequences are definitely different. We discussed the possibility of a failure with low EMS at the end of ME3. Regardless of player choices, the galaxy is united against the Reapers and they defeat them (retroactively in case of Refuse). Player decisions shape the world state after the Reaper war (not with Refuse, obviously). 

[Suron]

I think its made clear enough that:

1)Shepard no longer completely needs the implants to survive. He is human, but with technology in him. On the cusp of being a definite transhuman but ultimately not clearly entirely being one.

2)Breath Destroy EMS refines the wave's targeting so it could do just the right amount of damage to Shepard's implants that it doesn't wreck his body enough to kill him.

 

EDI is not shown in any part of Destroy but is shown in Control and Synthesis. While Shepard can be, with high enough EMS. So as you said, 'take it as face value'. Go ahead.

 

Otherwise you're headcanoning. 'Speculations for everyone.' And go ahead with that. Just don't expect many to go along with "EDI can come back in post-Destroy!" just because you think it can happen.

I know it's not spelled out.  In fact it's very very unlikely either the Geth or EDI survive in any way whatsoever after Destroy.  I'm saying that it's possible and not beyond any other handwaving done already in the trilogy with other things.

 

Hence I don't see why it's impossible for them to.  I'm not trying to say that's how everyone (or anyone) should take it.  Just that it's possible.  And I'm fully aware that anything I "feel" happened outside of what is specifically spelled out/shown in-game is nothing but "head canon"

 

I liked EDI enough that she's really the only one that gives me any pause in DESTROY.  People can argue whether Shepard should have the ability to be able to make that decision on his own.  But it's a few, or everyone.  Which is why refusal isn't ever considered for me.  Everyone knows it's "do or die" at that point.  And every one of the ending choices are bonkers with some kind of outcome that shepard must FORCE on everyone.

 

I take what starbrat says at face value because I really don't belive BIoWare would purposely have starchild lying about something without a way to actually SEE that he was (even if it's not shown till the end slides that something he told you was BS)

 

So I always go destroy.

 

anyway I went off on a slight tangent.  As I said I was simply stating it's possible.  Not that that's the route I always feel it goes or even should be.  Just that it's not out of the realm of handwaving if BioWare decided to make the next installment mention or show that EDI/GETH lived through Destroy.  (and of course that's assuming BioWare forces a "canon" ending on us and that the "canon ending' is destroy with high-ems)

[SwobyJ]

Yeah, I do agree that it could be relatively 'handwaved'. Though it'd need more than just a handwave imo.

[Suron]

Yeah, I do agree that it could be relatively 'handwaved'. Though it'd need more than just a handwave imo.

well yah.  I do too.  I just used the term cause it fit.  kinda.  it would need more explanation not a literal "hand wave" in the "normal" sense it's used.  bad choice of word (or term) on my part.  it definitely would need more spelled out to explain it than just "yeah they lived"

[SwobyJ]

well yah.  I do too.  I just used the term cause it fit.  kinda.  it would need more explanation not a literal "hand wave" in the "normal" sense it's used.  bad choice of word (or term) on my part.  it definitely would need more spelled out to explain it than just "yeah they lived"

 

Don't worry, I know what you mean.

[The Gman707]

I would have liked Shepard to have been reunited with the crew. Especially kaiden. I feel so sad that kaiden was left behind after he had fallen in love with shepard. The scene where he puts his name on the memorial wall is heartbreaking. Maybe in mass effect 4 we will find there has been a reunion.

[StephyMV]

Very interesting, guys.

 

Indeed, my "headcannon" is that EDI did die (thus having her name put on the board in the Normandy), but then some extremely gifted tech/hacker person (like Tali, Kasumi, or some other yet unknown and more gifted tech/hacker character) fixed her, and screw all that quantum bluebox stuff, if the person fixing her is extremely gifted, she would be back as herself. I'm going with that, unless BioWare changes it officially, or in upcoming games.

 

Thanks so much for everyone's opinions though. Helped me cope with the ending I will always go with, thanks to "headcannon". It's still sad not seeing EDI and Shepard reuniting with everyone else though. Let's hope they did, and we'll know soon enough.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Amazing that I'm more at peace knowing that in my last play EDI and the Geth survived, and I don't have to worry about what Shepard is doing. Varren and Pyjaks are living together now. Krogan and Turians get along. And the cycle has ended. The galaxy is a little greener and EDI is alive and not alone. There may have been a little scrubbing of the brains throughout the galaxy, but it was in the interest of galactic peace, so I choose to ignore that part. Shepard no longer has to listen to any more jokes about "I heard you thought Asari needed other species to reproduce." Indoctrination is bliss and I refuse to be made unhappy.