590 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

Hades Dogs served it's purpose. It's mostly there as an intro to a mysterious faction...one which you get extensive treatment of later. It's not there to get some particular story from. It's just another "day in the life" of Cerberus. Kahoku is just one admiral. These guys also killed the freaking Pope. lol. While the choice with the Shadow Broker gets swallowed up in the Collector and Liara story.

 

I agree with the rest though.

The thing is, at the end of Hades' Dogs, you have the option to hand the Cerberus data over to the Shadow Broker, with the heavy implication that he will owe you a favor in the future if you do so.  Or don't, and gee, maybe the Shadow Broker won't be there for you when you need help.

 

I don't know where you're getting that Shep controls the galaxy's destiny. If you want him to, he does. If you don't want him to, he doesn't.

No, Shep doesn't control anything.  Shep is dead.

 

The new AI, "The Shepalyst" controls the fate of the galaxy.

[Vazgen]

 

The thing is, at the end of Hades' Dogs, you have the option to hand the Cerberus data over to the Shadow Broker, with the heavy implication that he will owe you a favor in the future if you do so.  Or don't, and gee, maybe the Shadow Broker won't be there for you when you need help.

IIRC, it was not presented as a favor at all. More like, give us the info we'll get anyway and get paid for it. I see it as evaluating Shepard as a possible asset in the future. 

[fraggle]

How does a power source reprogram anything?  

 

Well maybe not reprogramming, but something must have happened. What about "you've altered the variables/the Crucible changed me, created new possibilities"?

Isn't a variable in programming a means to change a value when it's passed onto an existing program?

Maybe it's like that. The Crucible functions as a variable with new solutions passed onto the Catalyst. No reprogramming, but it's changing the Catalyst's point of view for the current solution by docking, combined with Shepard making it to the Catalyst itself, and it processes this variable, takes it into account and evaluates the new possibilities. I have no idea if that could work, because I'm in no way an expert on this kind of stuff, but yeah, just another idea.

[Iakus]

And he's a liar, if you go that route. That's pretty simple. The Collectors are paying him a ton of cash for the body.

 

Do you really expect a whole alternate story where the Yahg is your friend and there's an entirely different game where Cerberus doesn't get ahold of you? That would be neat, but I think you're too demanding if that's the case.

 

At the time, neither the Collectors nor the yahg existed.  So yeah, I kinda expected a future Shadow Broker story to at least acknowledge that.

You picked synthesis as I recall. Shepard died. So you did see how his story ended, and your expectations were met.

 

You recall wrong.  I picked Destroy.  Once.  Then EC happened which fixed nothing and actually reinforced some rather unpleasant details, and I put ME3 away for a good long time.

Well maybe not reprogramming, but something must have happened. What about "you've altered the variables/the Crucible changed me, created new possibilities"?

Isn't a variable in programming a means to change a value when it's passed onto an existing program?

Maybe it's like that. The Crucible functions as a variable with new solutions passed onto the Catalyst. No reprogramming, but it's changing the Catalyst's point of view for the current solution by docking, combined with Shepard making it to the Catalyst itself, and it processes this variable, takes it into account and evaluates the new possibilities. I have no idea if that could work, because I'm in no way an expert on this kind of stuff, but yeah, just another idea.

So "Lots of speculation for everybody?"  

[GalacticWolf5]

No, Shep doesn't control anything. Shep is dead.

The new AI, "The Shepalyst" controls the fate of the galaxy.

It is Shepard. The Catalyst says it itself.

But anyways, believe whatever you want to believe. Just know that you're not correct about this.

[Iakus]

So basically, you don't like that they bundled it all up with the LotSB and Lazarus story (even though it's a convenient way of handling it. It's not the same as ignoring the Shadow Broker/Cerberus connection. You're still getting a story out of this).

 

 

And here I thought the ME3 endings were your only problem. How does someone even play these games when they're so fundamentally unhappy with the core of them. Let alone remain a presence on these boards.  I have my complaints too, but damn.

I've never hidden my unhappiness of the direction ME2 went.  Heck that's what brought me to the forums to begin with.  ME3 merely continued in it's pursuit of the awesome button over good storytelling.  I had hopes that maybe they could turn it around long enough to at least provide a satisfying conclusion.  But nope. 

 

I miss the old Bioware. 

 

 

It is Shepard. The Catalyst says it itself.

But anyways, believe whatever you want to believe. Just know that you're not correct about this.

It also says "you will die"  Heck it even says it "preserves" the people it smoothifies.  I'd say it's grasp of organic identity is tenuous at best.

[Iakus]

As much as I don't want to agree with Iakus at the moment, belief is all this revolves around. Whether it's your belief or Iakus'.

 

It's one thing to acknowledge the Catalyst's main motivations and role in the plot, but giving it the power to define life itself is lame.

 

No one has an absolute definition of life and consciousness. Millenia of philosophers can't even answer this stuff, and now a video game character just declares it --- and people accept it wholesale. This cheapens the discussion on AI. I like to talk about this stuff, but when things are just declared this way by fiat, then there's no room for discussion. It's starts resembling a discussion on religion.

 

 

edit: Funnily, I'm watching Prometheus at the moment. At least that movie doesn't cheapen everything by declaring David alive right away.

Even if you accept the Shepalyst is "alive" (which I am at least willing to consider)  it's still not Shepard.  It's a separate individual being with Shepard's memories.  

[Vazgen]

Even if you accept the Shepalyst is "alive" (which I am at least willing to consider)  it's still not Shepard.  It's a separate individual being with Shepard's memories.  

And now we are getting into "what makes an individual?" discussion. Aren't memories enough to define your personality? Those memories forge your relationships and attachments, they hold your previous experiences... What characteristic is there that is not influenced or based on the memories? 

[GalacticWolf5]

Yes the Catalyst says that Shepard will die, but when Shep asks ''How can I control the Reapers if I'm dead'' the Intelligence answers ''You're corporeal form will be dissolved, but your thoughts and even your memories, will continue. You will no longer be organic.''

 

The Catalyst also says ''I do not look forward to being replaced by you, but...''

 

If that's not enough to say that the new Reaper master consciousness is Shepard, then I don't know what is. Oh right, the epilogue.

[Daemul]

Hold on, there's people who think that Shepard is dead in Control? Lord have mercy....some of y'all need to start paying attention to the dialogue. Yes, the Catalyst says that Shepard will die, but then he goes on to explain what he meant by that, i.e only his body will die and the parts that make him HIM, such as his thoughts and memories etc, will live on. This is why Shepard's morality determines which Control ending he gets and why his decisions throughout the game, e.g. whether he cured the genophage or not, determines what he says during the narration. 

 

People only focus on the "You will die" part of the Catalyst's Control dialogue for some odd reason, even though Bioware went well out of their way with the differing control endings and changes in dialogue narration to show that he was still alive. 

[GalacticWolf5]

Hold on, there's people who think that Shepard is dead in Control? Lord have mercy....some of y'all need to start paying attention to the dialogue. Yes, the Catalyst says that Shepard will die, but then he goes on to explain what he meant by that, i.e only his body will die and the parts that make him HIM, such as his thoughts and memories etc, will live on. This is why Shepard's morality determines which Control ending he gets and why his decisions throughout the game, e.g. whether he cured the genophage or not, determines what he says during the narration.

People only focus on the "You will die" part of the Catalyst's Control dialogue for some odd reason, even though Bioware went well out of their way with the differing control endings and changes in dialogue narration to show that he was still alive.

I can't like this twice, so: ^This

[Iakus]

And now we are getting into "what makes an individual?" discussion. Aren't memories enough to define your personality? Those memories forge your relationships and attachments, they hold your previous experiences... What characteristic is there that is not influenced or based on the memories? 

 

Emotions.  Perspective.  Personality.

 

This even goes to the whole "Could EDI be rebuilt"  Because even if her memories were preserved, her quantum blue box would mean her personality would not be the same.  She still wouldn't be EDI, even though she might have the same memories.

 

The same goes for Shepard, or any organic.  Hell, the Catalyst even says Your connection to your kind will be lost. Although you will remain aware of their existence.

[GalacticWolf5]

Hell, the Catalyst even says Your connection to your kind will be lost. Although you will remain aware of their existence.

Yeah, because he won't be an organic anymore.

[masster blaster]

All they need to do if fix the ME1 bugs and graphics and it shall be a ' remastered Game of the year edition" plus maybe some slight combat changes that are optional.

 

ME2 just fix whatever bugs and enhance the graphics.

 

ME3........implement Indoctrination theory in which we continue Shepard's story by fighting off the Indoctrination attempt by Harbinger, wake up in Destroy, regroup for a last attack and activate the crucibles MAC canon system that shall target the Reapers using the relays. boom.

 

That or just have our Shepard surrounded by waves of enemy ground troops, with the Normandy crashed landed in the back ground, all your squad mates, your crew, and all the leaders of your allies just standing on top of the Normandy/taking cover behind it and making a last stand worth to remember.

 

Then when everyone that Shepard cared for is dead, have Shepard take miniature Nuke weapon and find a way into Harbinger and make a line worth to remember as Shepard kills Harbinger at least, Thus causing the Reapers to flee into Dark-space now that their 'REAL" leader is dead and need to regroup. Thus gives the organic races time to regroup and replan. Plus synthetics lol.

[masster blaster]

I can't like this twice, so: ^This

My problem with this is Shepard we knew is dead. this "NEW" Shepard is nothing more than a copy. Just like the clone only with the memories of Shepard yet only an emotionless machine. Shepard shall be just like the catalyst over time. Corrupt, feel as if nothing he/she does will matter and nobody will ever learn. The Reapers are used in the Paragon option path as the 'Galactic police force" This includes the Reaper Indoctrinated troops as we can see the Reapers use them as well. Renegade option path, Shepard is the new dictator of the galaxy. However if 'WE" controlled Shepard then we could show Shepard there is always another way, in which Anderson was right. yet this is NOT our Shepard, but an AI copy.

[Iakus]

Yeah, because he won't be an organic anymore.

He won't be Shepard anymore.  

 

Shepard is, after all, organic

[wolfhowwl]

She becomes something greater.

[Vazgen]

Emotions. Perspective. Personality.

This even goes to the whole "Could EDI be rebuilt" Because even if her memories were preserved, her quantum blue box would mean her personality would not be the same. She still wouldn't be EDI, even though she might have the same memories.

The same goes for Shepard, or any organic. Hell, the Catalyst even says Your connection to your kind will be lost. Although you will remain aware of their existence.

Emotion. If you have never witnessed or experienced loss, you won't feel it. I know, it happened to me when I was a child.

Perspective is based on previous experiences.

Personality is a collection of traits which all are based on experience.

Preserving memories seemed to work for the geth.

In Control Shepard gains the collective knowledge of the Reapers. That is bound to change his outlook. Doesn't mean he's not Shepard anymore. It's like saying that Shepard is not himself anymore after the Prothean beacon and the Cipher which is not the case in the game.