590 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

I am not really talking about the citadel explosion (when the blast first fires) I am more talking about the relays exploding. What we know -from the lore - is that a relay explosion will destroy and ruin all terrestrial worlds in that system. This is affirmed with Arrival and stated in the codex.

That's exactly the issue. The Citadel explosion is a relay explosion. Didn't you notice that the Citadel does the same things the relays do? The Citadel relay is the first relay in the series, and the first to blow. You're assuming that you're looking at different things, but you are not. (Incidentally, why were you assuming that the Citadel relay doesn't detonate ? You get a pass on this if you didn't play ME1 and therefore didn't know that the Citadel is a relay.)

Meaning that relay explosions caused by the Crucible are different from explosions caused by crashing an asteroid or some such, yep. Not all that surprising; the relays are being tapped to perform highly-specific work, including generating mass effect fields of unprecedented size, since the waves have to expand at FTL speed. That would take enormous amounts of power, wouldn't it?

There'd be a serious RP problem if the Catalyst told Shepard that the relays were going to explode, but he doesn't say that.

But I will agree that the visual presentation here was needlessly confusing, if that's what you're going for.

How you are drawing this to the synthetics and organics thing I am not sure

I'm not. Not only am I not discussing that, I'm not even paying attention to that part of the thread.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Yes the Catalyst says that Shepard will die, but when Shep asks ''How can I control the Reapers if I'm dead'' the Intelligence answers ''You're corporeal form will be dissolved, but your thoughts and even your memories, will continue. You will no longer be organic.''

 

The Catalyst also says ''I do not look forward to being replaced by you, but...''

 

If that's not enough to say that the new Reaper master consciousness is Shepard, then I don't know what is. Oh right, the epilogue.

 

I'm sure Kim Jong Il thinks North Korea is just fine.

Spoiler

 

[GalacticWolf5]

I'm sure Kim Jong Il thinks North Korea is just fine.

Spoiler

What? Sorry, but I don't understand why you're saying this?

[Ithurael]

That's exactly the issue. The Citadel explosion is a relay explosion. Didn't you notice that the Citadel does the same things the relays do? The Citadel relay is the first relay in the series, and the first to blow. You're assuming that you're looking at different things, but you are not. (Incidentally, why were you assuming that the Citadel relay doesn't detonate ? You get a pass on this if you didn't play ME1 and therefore didn't know that the Citadel is a relay.)

Meaning that relay explosions caused by the Crucible are different from explosions caused by crashing an asteroid or some such, yep. Not all that surprising; the relays are being tapped to perform highly-specific work, including generating mass effect fields of unprecedented size, since the waves have to expand at FTL speed. That would take enormous amounts of power, wouldn't it?

There'd be a serious RP problem if the Catalyst told Shepard that the relays were going to explode, but he doesn't say that.

But I will agree that the visual presentation here was needlessly confusing, if that's what you're going for.

 

This goes to what we are told and what we are shown

 

We are told the Mass Relays will be destroyed - Not the citadel. This is an explicit statement

We are then shown the relays blowing up and - thus - killing everything.

 

Although, to be fair. The citadel is an inactive mass relay. But, to keep to consistency, yeah, if the regular relays blow up and the citadel blows up, the lore does dictate that all terrestrial worlds will be ruined.

 

Showing the opposite is not implicit writing giving us clues that the genocide didn't happen because people survived. This is an example of contrived convenience.

 

 

There'd be a serious RP problem if the Catalyst told Shepard that the relays were going to explode, but he doesn't say that.

 

From the vanilla ending - the one being discussed

Click

"Releasing the energy of the crucible will end the cycle, but it will also destroy the mass relays"

Destruction of Mass Relay = System death

Showing opposite =/= implicit writing

Showing opposite == contrived convenience

 

This is noticeably absent from the EC ending - not being discussed.

Click

--line removed--

 

Anglo wanted to discuss the ending on the merits of the vanilla ending. I agreed to oblige him and keep on that track for the sake of sanity and to keep our source material the same.

[angol fear]

@Ithurael, I must admit that I don't get your first point.

You say that the catalyst doesn't say anything about being an A.I. but you refuse to admit that he is implicitly an A.I. in that scene.

There's a real contradiction here but I can't understand why you can't see that.

There are things that make us think that the catalyst is an A.I. but it is not said. Implicit is saying indirectly and that's what is happening : when there was no extended cut, people who have found out that the catalyst was an A.I. actually said that they "thought" he was an A.I.

Don't you see why it was added to the extended cut? Because it's an important element for the ending and they noticed that most people didn't get the ending. They had to make it explicit instead of implicit. You'll notice that they added that line but never explained the catalyst logic because that's the first step to understand the ending .

 

And when I quoted Klencory, I never talked about the process of writing. I know that they didn't think about the catalyst, they didn't have any idea about the illusive man for Mass Effect 2, so the ending about the catalyst... it doesn't mean that they were not thinking about element of the ending (A.I., synthetics/organics). Klencory is a seed, a possibility of themes that they used in the third game. I mean when you know you're on a project that will take more than 5 years of writing and will be in three parts, you know that the ending will be affected by the elements you write in the trilogy. Writing isn't something monolithic.

Anyway there's a real relation between Klencory and the ending, Klencory's description in Mass Effect 3 is here to make you think so. If you refuse it, it's just that you don't want to read the way the writers want you to read it.

 

I'll read again what you wrote, maybe I misunderstood it.

 

edit : and the concept of the catalyst has to be linked with the crucible. So there's no way there was a catalyst when Drew left in your source :

https://twitter.com/...046276831772674

[dorktainian]

The Citadel explosion is a relay explosion. Didn't you notice that the Citadel does the same things the relays do? The Citadel relay is the first relay in the series, and the first to blow. You're assuming that you're looking at different things, but you are not. (Incidentally, why were you assuming that the Citadel relay doesn't detonate ? You get a pass on this if you didn't play ME1 and therefore didn't know that the Citadel is a relay.)

Meaning that relay explosions caused by the Crucible are different from explosions caused by crashing an asteroid or some such.

 

An explosion is an explosion.  The only difference is the trigger.

 

As an example Commander Shepard is on the Citadel when it explodes if you believe the ending.  The sheer amount of power going through the citadel at that point and subsequent explosion being enough to blow the ward arms off.... that's a huge explosion.  Almost like that's exactly what the Citadel was designed to do.....

 

A massive relay destruction device.

 

The relays overload in effect, way too much power thanks to Mr space microphone, spin too fast, then explode (in the original endings).  Just because the explosion wasn't triggered by a floating rock, does not mean the explosions are any less powerful.

 

If the relays explode, everyone and everything is doomed.  No question.  It's like poisoning the well.  The reapers lose but are bad sports, as they are defeated they blow the relays meaning that even if they lose, they win.  Nothing can survive explosions of that magnitude.  Good job team milky way.  Now remind me why using a device we have no idea what it does or how it does it was a good idea.

 

I don't think this story is over...

[dsl08002]

The sad thing is that bioware dilusional thinks that a new game of ME will solve everything, but that isnt true. You dont put a bandage over an open infected wound.

If they wanted redemption and rekindle fans faith in bioware and ME franchise. THEY would have changed the ending.

And they still can and even to this day.

[GalacticWolf5]

It makes me laugh sooo much when people speak like this ^^^

[Ithurael]

@Anglo

 

I have a free moment!

 

If there is any confusion when reading any argument or a story, that is more often the fault of the author than the reader.

 

I apologize for the confusion. I will try to be more succinct in my responses.

[GalacticWolf5]

The ending is good as it is rigth now. Bioware likes it. A lot of people like it. They won't change it. Move on.

[Iakus]

I don't think a new ending will solve everything. I think it would upset people who liked the initial one. You understand that if they were to do this, it would be under their own choosing and not under duress from the fans?

And a new ending that could exist alongside RGB?  Does having Control as an option upset those who like Synthesis?

 

It's never going to happen, obviously.  Bioware has made it quite clear their "Art" is inviolate, but having more options generally doesn't upset people as much as having less options.

[dsl08002]

The ending is good as it is rigth now. Bioware likes it. A lot of people like it. They won't change it. Move on.

For gods sake....

I think you are confusing "like it" with " this is all you are getting"

[GalacticWolf5]

For gods sake.... 

I think you are confusing "like it" with " this is all you are getting"

Nah, I'm perfectly aware of what I'm saying.

[Iakus]

No it wasn't

[GalacticWolf5]

No it wasn't

For you maybe, but that's probably because you refuse to move on from the original ending and to realize that the ending does make sense. But hey, I can't make you change your mind. God knows I've tried.. and I'm not the only one.

[GalacticWolf5]

Double post.

[Batarian Master Race]

realize that the ending does make sense.

 

Harbinger needing glasses makes sense?

 

Shepard losing all equipped weapons but gaining an infinite-reload pistol makes sense?

 

Being born in London makes sense?

[GalacticWolf5]

Harbinger needing glasses makes sense?

Shepard losing all equipped weapons but gaining an infinite-reload pistol makes sense?

Being born in London makes sense?

Yeah, Harbinger not firing on the Normandy is kinda weird. Maybe he's too busy killing all the people running to the beam.

Shepard suddently having a pistol happens quite a lot in ME2 and 3. Just like he suddenty has the Avenger assault rifle in almost every cutscene. Intinite ammo is easely explainable. They didnt want you to waste your ammo and not be able to progress because you didn't have any more.

... Yes. Why couldnt Anderson be born in London?