Guest_AugmentedAssassin_*
Did you ignore the part were Garrus told you the turians were losing the war. A few victories does not win a war. Your not getting that few victories does not support your point.
Missing the point. I mean that the actual plan of the mission was terrible and it could have been better. Then i bolstered that claim by stating that BioWare has architecture good strategies before. For example, The Miracle at Palaven.
Personally, I up the number of destroyers to five per cycle, which I still find pretty conservative. There's about a dozen spacefaring races in this cycle, so even if half that is considered "normal" and only one destroyer is made per race per cycle...that's a LOT of Reapers.
And it just goes to show how stupid ME3 is. Even the most conservative efforts show the Reapers should have steamrolled through the galaxy. Ten thousand Sovereign class Reapers and tens OF thousands of destroyers? Not just "they can't be beaten conventionally" they shouldn't have been beatable period!
There was alway going to be a way to beat the reapers no matter what . It was hinted at from Me1.
Edit: Also, the Leviathan of Dis isn't even the oldest Reaper. Harbinger is! That means the Reapers have been around for more than a billion years (and thus more Reapers). How many more, is of course an open question.
He's taking about the oldest recorded reaper. Harbinger is the oldest be we don't know by how much.
Missing the point. I mean that the actual plan of the mission was terrible and it could have been better. Then i bolstered that claim by stating that BioWare has architecture good strategies before. For example, The Miracle at Palaven.
You mean the last battle....Then yes more could of been done for that. the entire battle of earth arc was horrible.
Guest_AugmentedAssassin_*
You mean the last battle....Then yes more could of been done for that. the entire battle of earth arc was horrible.
Most of ME3's third act as a matter of fact.
Most of ME3's third act as a matter of fact.
Not really. The asari home world part need more meat and more player character control.The cerberus mission was a fine end to cerberus arc. The earth arc...so much wrong I can't even end talking about how bad it was.
And you missed the fact as soon as they took out those ships they were over run and pushed to the brink.
I didn't miss anything. I only pointed out that several capital ships were destroyed, right?
Guest_AugmentedAssassin_*
Not really. The asari home world part need more meat and more player character control.The cerberus mission was a fine end to cerberus arc. The earth arc...so much wrong I can't even end talking about how bad it was.
Actually, Cerberus arch wasn't done right. Right from the start, Cerberus was mishandled in ME3. Thessia was also bad even if it had its moments. The only third act mission that was good was Horizon.
I feel that cerberus being demonized in ME3 was a cheap stab against pragmatism.
Essentially they were the strawman that shows you why Dude!Shepard, the naive paragon, is the only right way to go.
No room for hard decisions, or for negative unforseen results for the goody!paragon approach.
Hmm... apperantly the new trend of political correctness in DA:I is not that new...
There was alway going to be a way to beat the reapers no matter what . It was hinted at from Me1.
Yes, but the sheer number and power of the Reapers, not to mention all the time wasted in ME2, meant that victory had to be achieved by pulling a deus ex machina out of some orifice or other
Yes, but the sheer number and power of the Reapers, not to mention all the time wasted in ME2, meant that victory had to be achieved by pulling a deus ex machina out of some orifice or other
Bioware had to make the reapers look stupid.
Reapers shut down the relay after entering a system. Game over. Reapers win
Reapers shutoff the beam on Earth. What will the organics do?
Reaper on Tuchanka fires horizontally instead of vertically killing Shepard. Game over. Reapers win
Reaper on Rannoch fires horizontally killing Shepard. Game over. Reapers win
Reapers surround the Citadel and possibly destroy the Normandy when it arrives. Game over. Reapers win
Reaper wastes its time destroying the two shuttles when the Normandy is right there in plain view for it to destroy.
Harbinger didn't fire at the Normandy during the what-the-crap evac scene destroying the ship and killing everyone in the area including Shepard. Game over. Reapers win
We would never win no matter what. The only way to stop them was to find the plans, build the device and use it before they enter the galaxy.
So the Reaper war machine is enormous. The current cycle races have just over 120 dreadnoughts and it takes around 4 of them to drop the shields of a capital ship. Cruisers and frigates are effective but usually only against destroyers. So any space battle with the reapers can only end in one way. Things are not better on the ground either since most races have small numbers of trained troops (less than 3% of human population), except for the turians
I know this is a very rough estimation but it was fun putting it together anyway. (someone did something similar with Thedas's military strength in Dragon Age, so I got the idea from there).
I feel you are missing some calculations. Each harvest has got to give the Reaper fleet some casualties.
The non citadel races/fleets.. . .
But that's not really fair, is it? This is less of a testimony to any of the above tactical prowess or lack thereof, and more of a proof to bioware's trademark bad tactics in any kind of armed conflict in their stories. For some reason they just can't portray a good commander or effective tactics. (at least I can't remember such case)
It isn't just Bioware. It is most stories. If everything were to go smoothly, it wouldn't be a good story in the first place. Heck it isn't even just stories. Many good generals/leaders make bad mistakes. And there are many bad leaders (Adolf Hitler). What if the Japanese launched a third wave at Pearl Harbor to destroy the fuel tanks, or had Robert E Lee not ordered Picket's charge. What if Hitler decided to continue to targeting the airfields, instead of going after the cities during the Battle of Britain? Heck leaders make decisions are sub-optimal that work out anyways. Washington could have just kept his troops behind the Appalachian and let the British come to him. He instead risked the whole army to defend New York and almost lost the war in the first year.
Editado por oldag07, 25 mayo 2015 - 06:22 .
I feel you are missing some calculations. Each harvest has got to give the Reaper fleet some casualties.
The non citadel races/fleets.. . .
Unknown.
AFAIK we only know of 2 destroyed Reapers prior to this cycle.
Javik's reaction to the dead Destroyers at Tuchanka and Ranoch also seems to suggest* that this was something uncommon in his cycle. And these were only destroyers, not full fledged Sovereing class ones.
*At least I got that impression
I feel you are missing some calculations. Each harvest has got to give the Reaper fleet some casualties.
The non citadel races/fleets.. . .
I don't think the reapers take many casualties. Not capital ships anyway. The current cycle is special and took more of them down because "The Shepard" and "rule of cool". If they make 1 capital ship per cycle and lose 5 ..you get the picture, no more reapers. So 5% all time casualties maybe? Could be less. The point was to see if we're dealing with hundreds of ships or thousands. Thousands seem most likely.
The non citadel races/fleets:
The batarians had fleets and dreadnoughts, but these were lost when they started to fire on each other in the first attack. Gotta love those indoctrinated sleeper agents.
Terminus has an unknown number of ships. ME1 makes it sound like the Council takes them seriously but this was never fully explored. We only hear of Aria's fleet.
Hanar/Elcor have small navies. No dreadnoughts.
Where is it stated that a cycle produces only one capital Reaper ship? All we know from the codex is that:
Experts believe the Reapers harvest a single species of organics during each cycle of extinction to create these massive ships.
That means that capital ships are created from single species, not that there is only one ship created from those species.
Terminus has an unknown number of ships. ME1 makes it sound like the Council takes them seriously but this was never fully explored. We only hear of Aria's fleet.
Terminus fleet is listed in war assets. Based on EMS it is stronger than Salarian First/Third Fleet.
Where is it stated that a cycle produces only one capital Reaper ship? All we know from the codex is that:
Experts believe the Reapers harvest a single species of organics during each cycle of extinction to create these massive ships.
That means that capital ships are created from single species, not that there is only one ship created from those species.
Leviathan: "Each cycle ends with the birth of a reaper. Perfect in it's design."
Edit: I think individuals are filtered based on DNA, not all of them qualify. There could be just enough for only 1 ship. I remember a codex about husks having sensors for selecting the right people for processing. The ones not selected are turned into husks or indoctrinated slaves instead. Or simply killed.
"Take what is useful. Destroy the rest." Harbinger.
Editado por Heimerdinger, 25 mayo 2015 - 04:30 .
Leviathan: "Each cycle ends with the birth of a reaper. Perfect in it's design."
Tbh, they have first-hand evidence on only one cycle - theirs, when the first Reaper was created 
It is also contradicted with the creation of Destroyers from "lesser" races. I also don't understand the "cycle ends" message. What does it mean?
Tbh, they have first-hand evidence on only one cycle - theirs, when the first Reaper was created
It is also contradicted with the creation of Destroyers from "lesser" races. I also don't understand the "cycle ends" message. What does it mean?
Well, yeah, depends how seriously you take Leviathan. I think by "Each cycle ends.." he means at the end of a harvest they will have a new capital ship up and running.
Well, yeah, depends how seriously you take Leviathan. I think by "Each cycle ends.." he means at the end of a harvest they will have a new capital ship up and running.
Which does not contradict there being more than one 
Until someone from Bioware says otherwise, I will agree with what Leviathan mentions that only one capital ship is built each cycle
Guest_AugmentedAssassin_*
Yeah, Each cycle marks the birth of a new capital ship. But the other reaper variants are made as well.
Codex Entry > The Reapers > Reaper Variants
The Citadel races have classified the known variants of Reapers into four types:
* CAPITAL SHIPS are Sovereign-class Reapers two kilometers in length. They typically target the dreadnoughts, defense installations, and industrial cities of organic civilizations. Experts believe the Reapers harvest a single species of organics during each cycle of extinction to create these massive ships. Some capital ships are capable of launching small drones equivalent to fighters.
* DESTROYERS are 160 meters long and, in astounding numbers, make up the bulk of the Reaper fleet. They engage cruisers and other, smaller ships, as well as communications posts and enemy command centers. Research suggests destroyers are created from those species that are not harvested to make capital ships.
* TROOP TRANSPORTS carry husks to unconquered planets and bring victims of the harvest to Reaper processing centers. They vary in length from 200 meters to one kilometer, but, unlike capital ships and destroyers, do not appear to be self-aware. Instead, other Reapers operate troop transports remotely.
* PROCESSORS, also called "slaughter ships," are mobile centers for mass DNA harvesting. Like troop transports, processors appear to be remotely operated by sapient Reapers.
Until someone from Bioware says otherwise, I will agree with what Leviathan mentions that only one capital ship is built each cycle
But... how is that possible?
In Shepard's cycle a few Reapers "died", and I mean the big ones.
The Protheans were stronger, due to being a harsh militristic empire, so I'm assuming that they killed more in their cycle.
We can't know what the average ratio of Reapers made / killed is from two cycles, but it's enough to raise questions about the sustainability of the process.
But... how is that possible?
In Shepard's cycle a few Reapers "died", and I mean the big ones.
The Protheans were stronger, due to being a harsh militristic empire, so I'm assuming that they killed more in their cycle.
We can't know what the average ratio of Reapers made / killed is from two cycles, but it's enough to raise questions about the sustainability of the process.
Here are two posts I made in a thread
http://forum.bioware...4#entry19018524
http://forum.bioware...4#entry19018526
Here's the thread if you like to look at it
Here are two posts I made in a thread
http://forum.bioware...4#entry19018524
http://forum.bioware...4#entry19018526
Here's the thread if you like to look at it
Really? According to Casey Hudson the human cycle was the one where the Reapers lost the most capital ships?
Despite the Council incompetence, the "helpful" treaty of Farixan and the general pathetic state of the Citadel and the Alliance?
Why? Because humans are a special snowflake? The powah of friendship and teamwork? Do you honestly think that a cycle dominated by an aggressive empire like the Prothean or a vicious and effective species like the Yahg would not be able to cause more damage? What are the odds that in all the previous cycles the humans and the citadel were the most effective military force to fight the Reapers?
I need to find that triple facepalm picture. What a load of BS.
P.S. This is not directed at you obviously, just at the mind-boggling ludicrous notions that ME lore seems to be based on, and those who wrote them in with straight face.
Really? According to Casey Hudson the human cycle was the one where the Reapers lost the most capital ships?
They have the most losses in this cycle. Read the link in my post that mentions the losses the reapers had
Why? Because humans are a special snowflake? The powah of friendship and teamwork?
What? That has nothing to do with it. The reapers were made stupid in this cycle so that they can be defeated. Had the reapers shut off the relay when entering the sol system, it would be game over. The Normandy would never of made it to the Citadel and the crucible would never of been built.
Do you honestly think that a cycle dominated by an aggressive empire like the Prothean or a vicious and effective species like the Yahg would not be able to cause more damage?
Yes. The reapers have the element of surprise by coming through the Citadel relay. Had they did that in our cycle, we would be harvested like all previous cycles. The relays would be shutdown trapping each species in their system before they knew what was going on.
What are the odds that in all the previous cycles the humans and the citadel were the most effective military force to fight the Reapers?
The reapers didn't have the element of surprise like they did in previous cycles. We had use of the relays whereas previous cycles didn't. Had previous cycles had use of the relays and the reapers didn't come through the Citadel, they might've caused more damage to the reapers
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