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[Ennai and 54 others]

The witcher suffers from scope creep.This is the tendency for an author to raise the stakes just to keep the readers interest.Low fantasy stuff like killing bruxas is not seen as enough forever,we need to be fighting dragons and dimension hoppers and the end of the world itself.

At first the impact of our actions is confined to a single village,then we save entire towns,then cities,then kingdoms and now we are dealing with ancient prophecies and DIMENSIONS.It's ridiculous,and Ciri is at the heart of it.

Some people would call her a mary sue or a cannon sue.She may not be considered a mary sue by your understanding but I believe the general intuition is accurate.


Ciri is physically attractive,bisexual,charismatic and most of the non villainous characters adore her.She was trained by a legendary sorceress,a legendary witcher,a druid and an elven sage from another world.

She is a teleporting swordwoman,a sorceress AND a witcher,which means she has detective and alchemy skills.On top of that she is heir to the throne of the largest human empire the world has ever seen.In addition to her royal blood she has magical blood,which allows her to do what other sorcerers and witchers can never do.

In addition to her awesome genes she is at the heart of a prophecy,this means extra plot armor.


She is not a very good character.There is even a plot point where

Spoiler

she is in a really bad situation and a deus ex machina ability appears out of nowhere to save everyone.

And at the end she

Spoiler

stops the white frost.Meaning she saved every living thing everywhere in every world from certain death.

This is one thing I hope bioware does not do with the dragon age.But I suspect it will happen eventually.at first we were dealing with the blight in one country,then we killed the general of the qunari and started a large scale mage rebellion,releasing an ancient magister...

Then we get to inquisition where we are directly dealing with a possible end of the world in the form of a demon invasion.We enter the fade physically(something no one has done before) and gain the power to tame dragons.

The scope creep is about to enter its final stages,where we fight actual gods of mythology.

It will get ridiculous if we don't stop it now.

[KaiserShep]

Well, at least the dragon taming bit is optional.

[bEVEsthda]

I have ignored this thread, and I have no intention to read it now.

Just offering my opinion. I don't think DA should be more like TW.

What I like about TW, is the care that the developers show, and how much the game takes itself and its world seriously.

While DA has deteriorated to just a mishmash of confused pop-marketing concepts.

 

But in other regards, TW are not games I want. They are action-RPGs with a fixed protagonist. Not what I would like to see role-playing games evolve towards, at all.

Virtually all game genres have an interactive story. That is not  what makes an RPG.

[Bfler]

She is not a very good character.There is even a plot point where she is in a really bad situation and a deus ex machina ability appears out of nowhere to save everyone.

If you mean the scene with the force explosion during the siege of Kear Mohren, then it's not a dem. Read "A question of price" in the Last Wish book. The same thing happens to her mother Pavetta, when Ciris father is attacked.

[Torgette]

Character wise DAI were largely a miss for me but i still have faith in Bioware's ability to write good characters.

Bioware needs to relearn the notion of secondary quests with choices. The witcher 3 put them to shame completely.

Environmental design in witcher 3 is streets ahead.

 

Maybe it's because I do a lot of outdoor hiking, but I actually prefer the weird fantastical landscape in DAI to the more realistic natural world of the witcher 3 - the weird escapism is nice. Totally agree about cities though, in fact I don't think Dragon Age has ever had a good city in any of its games (sorry kirkwall), whereas all the witcher games have had good urban areas. Val Royeaux is hugely disappointing.

[Ennai and 54 others]

If you mean the scene with the force explosion during the siege of Kear Mohren, then it's not a dem. Read "A question of price" in the Last Wish book. The same thing happens to her mother Pavetta, when Ciris father is attacked.

Oh.If that's the case then its fine.Though I am always suspicious of such situations(they usually occur in badly written anime shows)...actually it isn't fine,I don't think any such justification for a get out of trouble free card is sufficient.If it happened by chance then I am not impressed with the writing.

If avallach had planned to trigger this thing in Ciri before the battle then it would be more believable.As it stands ,nothing Geralt(the player) did in preparation for the battle mattered because Ciri can go super saiyan in times of trouble.Screw that.

Then we have the end segment where she

Spoiler

Uses here infinity sword to cut through swathes of red riders,something even Geralt has trouble doing

Note that I am only criticizing the character of ciri.The rest of the main story and side plots were awesome.

[midnight tea]

The witcher suffers from scope creep.This is the tendency for an author to raise the stakes just to keep the readers interest.Low fantasy stuff like killing bruxas is not seen as enough forever,we need to be fighting dragons and dimension hoppers and the end of the world itself.

At first the impact of our actions is confined to a single village,then we save entire towns,then cities,then kingdoms and now we are dealing with ancient prophecies and DIMENSIONS.It's ridiculous,and Ciri is at the heart of it.

Some people would call her a mary sue or a cannon sue.She may not be considered a mary sue by your understanding but I believe the general intuition is accurate.


Ciri is physically attractive,bisexual,charismatic and most of the non villainous characters adore her.She was trained by a legendary sorceress,a legendary witcher,a druid and an elven sage from another world.

She is a teleporting swordwoman,a sorceress AND a witcher,which means she has detective and alchemy skills.On top of that she is heir to the throne of the largest human empire the world has ever seen.In addition to her royal blood she has magical blood,which allows her to do what other sorcerers and witchers can never do.

In addition to her awesome genes she is at the heart of a prophecy,this means extra plot armor.


She is not a very good character.There is even a plot point where

Spoiler

she is in a really bad situation and a deus ex machina ability appears out of nowhere to save everyone.

And at the end she

Spoiler

stops the white frost.Meaning she saved every living thing everywhere in every world from certain death.

This is one thing I hope bioware does not do with the dragon age.But I suspect it will happen eventually.at first we were dealing with the blight in one country,then we killed the general of the qunari and started a large scale mage rebellion,releasing an ancient magister...

Then we get to inquisition where we are directly dealing with a possible end of the world in the form of a demon invasion.We enter the fade physically(something no one has done before) and gain the power to tame dragons.

The scope creep is about to enter its final stages,where we fight actual gods of mythology.

It will get ridiculous if we don't stop it now.

 

Sadly, it's true. I usually have no problem with uber-special characters, if they're still being made interesting by good writing - and in books she is (and stuff that happens to her because of her "specialness" is messed up) - but in the game so far (as far as my PT goes) she's very Sue-fied. I worry about that.

[Bfler]

Then we have the end segment where she 

 

Spoiler

Uses here infinity sword to cut through swathes of red riders,something even Geralt has trouble doing

 

I guess the intention behind it is the same like in case of the Darkspawn at the beginning of the battle in Denerim in DA:O, which you can also kill with one hit.

[Rawgrim]

I have ignored this thread, and I have no intention to read it now.

Just offering my opinion. I don't think DA should be more like TW.

What I like about TW, is the care that the developers show, and how much the game takes itself and its world seriously.

While DA has deteriorated to just a mishmash of confused pop-marketing concepts.

 

But in other regards, TW are not games I want. They are action-RPGs with a fixed protagonist. Not what I would like to see role-playing games evolve towards, at all.

Virtually all game genres have an interactive story. That is not  what makes an RPG.

 

DA:I is also an action-rpg with a fixed protagonist. It even says "Bioware's new action-rpg" on the official website for the game.

[Elhanan]

DAI has multiple starting characters. While the backgrounds may be fixed, their personalities are not.

And Action mode is a choice; prefer Tac-Cam myself.

[Rawgrim]

Sorry. You get 2 personality choices in  DA:I. My bad. Reluctant hero or regular hero.

[AlanC9]

Is that any different from other games? Or is that the point?

[Hazegurl]

The witcher suffers from scope creep.This is the tendency for an author to raise the stakes just to keep the readers interest.Low fantasy stuff like killing bruxas is not seen as enough forever,we need to be fighting dragons and dimension hoppers and the end of the world itself.
*snip*

I have to say this is probably my only issue with TW3.  The stakes kept being raised to the point of world ending disaster but I also have to praise them on this because this is the last Witcher game involving Geralt. So they at least have enough sense to know when to stop beating the horse.  However, I do wonder what else can they do with the Witcher verse and honestly, if it's starring Ciri, I might have to pass.

 

Don't get me wrong, I liked Ciri a lot and adore her relationship with Geralt but she is a Mary Sue character, almost to the point where I

Spoiler

wanted her to die in the end.

  I just need more out of a main character than "I just want to be normal."

[Torgette]

Sorry. You get 2 personality choices in DA:I. My bad. Reluctant hero or regular hero.

The inquisitor eventually winning I don't mind, I thought they gave you plenty of chances to be an anti-hero personality wise as well as speak your views on religion in thedas - though mostly with companions. You also get chances to shape the world state by explicitly siding yourself in the ongoing civil war and decide the fates of orlais and the wardens. That said as has been discussed to death the quiz probably could've been more emotive - and a friendship/rivalry system would've helped.

Anyways, I really like the way they handled the Bestiary in TW3 and would like something similar in Dragon Age - having to think about which gear best defends or what the weak points/behavior of enemies would be cooler than just picking up enemy body parts for an npc to study.

[Han Shot First]

If there is another Witcher game at some point CD Projekt Red might be best off going the route they originally planned to go with the series, by having the main character being an original character rather than one established in the books. Have the main character be from a Witcher school other than the school of the Wolf, and allow for different options in character creation. They could keep it tied to the previous three games by having that Witcher cross paths with some of the established characters from the books/games.

 

It could be interesting to have that Witcher be from the fallen school of the Viper. Besides Letho there are least two other surviving members who were never named or seen, leaving plenty of room for customization if either one was made a protagonist.

[Rawgrim]

Is that any different from other games? Or is that the point?

 

Different from many many many rpgs, yes. Mostly rpgs let you create your own motivations and personality for your character. It is a huge part of the RP in rpg.

[Rawgrim]

The inquisitor eventually winning I don't mind, I thought they gave you plenty of chances to be an anti-hero personality wise as well as speak your views on religion in thedas - though mostly with companions. You also get chances to shape the world state by explicitly siding yourself in the ongoing civil war and decide the fates of orlais and the wardens. That said as has been discussed to death the quiz probably could've been more emotive - and a friendship/rivalry system would've helped.

Anyways, I really like the way they handled the Bestiary in TW3 and would like something similar in Dragon Age - having to think about which gear best defends or what the weak points/behavior of enemies would be cooler than just picking up enemy body parts for an npc to study.

 

Yeah I agree with that to a certain point. But it all goes down the drain when the next cutscene\auto-dialogue completely changes your character back to a goody two-shoe 10 minute later.

[Elhanan]

Yeah I agree with that to a certain point. But it all goes down the drain when the next cutscene\auto-dialogue completely changes your character back to a goody two-shoe 10 minute later.

Am a fan of fewer cut-scenes, but I do not recall laughter being a personality trait. And if one only found two personalities, that is on the Player; not the game. More options are available than those examples. But then, I was willing to look....

[o Ventus]

Sorry. You get 2 personality choices in  DA:I. My bad. Reluctant hero or regular hero.

 

You keep on saying this like you're being funny or clever.

[Torgette]

Yeah I agree with that to a certain point. But it all goes down the drain when the next cutscene\auto-dialogue completely changes your character back to a goody two-shoe 10 minute later.

Agreed, I said over in the mass effect forum that auto-dialogue is fine with me if it's still informed by our choices and reputation (something they haven't done). This is where a friendship/rivalry or reputation system would come into play - that or just not have auto-dialogue lol.

[AresKeith]

If there is another Witcher game at some point CD Projekt Red might be best off going the route they originally planned to go with the series, by having the main character being an original character rather than one established in the books. Have the main character be from a Witcher school other than the school of the Wolf, and allow for different options in character creation. They could keep it tied to the previous three games by having that Witcher cross paths with some of the established characters from the books/games.

 

It could be interesting to have that Witcher be from the fallen school of the Viper. Besides Letho there are least two other surviving members who were never named or seen, leaving plenty of room for customization if either one was made a protagonist.

 

It would be interesting if they went that route 

[AlanC9]

Different from many many many rpgs, yes. Mostly rpgs let you create your own motivations and personality for your character. It is a huge part of the RP in rpg.

I don't see it. I know of plenty of RPGs where the character's motivation and personality are irrelevant, though; are those what you're talking about?

[SofaJockey]

-Fast travel using signs

-Add chicken sandwiches to the game

-More people with white hair

 

All of those are good suggestions. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well, at least the dragon taming bit is optional.

And it was only that one dragon. All the other dragons still try to nom nom us up.

[KaiserShep]

If there is another Witcher game at some point CD Projekt Red might be best off going the route they originally planned to go with the series, by having the main character being an original character rather than one established in the books. Have the main character be from a Witcher school other than the school of the Wolf, and allow for different options in character creation. They could keep it tied to the previous three games by having that Witcher cross paths with some of the established characters from the books/games.

 

It could be interesting to have that Witcher be from the fallen school of the Viper. Besides Letho there are least two other surviving members who were never named or seen, leaving plenty of room for customization if either one was made a protagonist.

I'd like this a lot.