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Feedback... be more like The Witcher 3


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#3251
Dreadstruck

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So overall, it's really the main story that's the driving force of the Witcher 3. In that case, it's not really an open world experience but a main quest that branches out to smaller quests. Neither Dragon Age or the Witcher series are really open world environments, compared to Skyrim. I find the Witcher novels more interesting, not just because it's the original source, but because it offers a different voice to the fantasy genre. (That voice doesn't sound like the mayor of Carmel.)

 
TW3's open world is more akin to Red Ded Redemption, which imho, for me strikes a good balance between rewarding sandbox gameplay and seamlessly integrated storytelling and quests.
 

With all due respect, I think people who have not played TW3 should refrain from having knee-jerk reactions of the “Noooo, never, I hate Geralt”- type, and look at what most people asking BW to take a closer look at TW3 are actually saying.

I’m a longtime, huge BioWare fan and they remain my favorite developer, but I have to say, The Witcher 3 is one of the best games I ever played, and to me, it outshines DAI (which I loved btw). I’m definitely NOT calling for BioWare to make a carbon copy of TW3, to drop the different protagonists or the companions, but there are some aspects of TW3 that I personally believe would greatly enhance any BW game.

TW3 shines when it comes to quest design and the integration of both quests and main missions in an open world environment. Looking at what’s most criticized about DAI on these forums, I doubt there are many DAI players who wouldn’t have liked to have seen more meaningful quests in the different regions, and longer/more main missions. TW3 achieves that, and I would love to have more fleshed out sidequests and more/better integrated main missions in the next BW game. I adored the main quests in DAI, but I did feel that there were too few for the length of the playthrough and that there was no sense of urgency throughout.

Another thing I think TW3 did exceptionally well was insert choice into almost every conversation in the game, and the consequences of those choices are felt throughout the playthrough, culminating at the end. When I say “end”, I should say “endings”, because there are quite a variety of different outcomes, many of which will catch you by surprise. DAO had variety (although those endings were based on far less choices than you have in TW3), but sadly since then, the concept of different endings was kinda lost. I’d love to see it brought back for the next game.

TW3 also manages to tell a deeply personal story with an epic backdrop, with a significant amount of character development over the playthrough, a lot of it driven by your choices as the player. As a result, as a female gamer very fond of playing different origins and races, I adored playing as Geralt in TW3. Again, not saying that BW should have straight white male protagonists, not at all, but by the end, I enjoyed playing my Geralt almost as much as my FemShep and that for me, is saying something. Never would have imagined that in a million years as I thought TW1 and 2 were merely okay games and Geralt until TW3 was just meh.

Finally, the small touches: how the world reacts to you as a witcher, and how that perception evolves over the course of game, depending on what you did or did not do in a particular region. Ambient NPCs comment non-stop and you both see and feel your mark on the world in big and small ways. Just an example of the level of detail TW3 goes into: one of your potential love interests even comments on you growing a beard (there is automatic beard growth over time, you need to get to a barber to stay clean shaven), but only if you indeed have a beard. Those small touches make the experience very personal and unique.

This is not to me about a dev war or a fan war. This is simply feedback from both a DA and ME fan on what particularly impressed her in another game in the same genre, and what she hopes to experience again. Feel free to take it or leave it, just had to say it.


If I could I would like this a hundred times and reposted it on the first page for everyone to see as well (on the OP's post). It's worth mentioning and quoting!

 

And yes, feedback is what we're looking for here. Not a pissing contest.

Thank you.

spectre_impersonator, please do so!


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#3252
Wittand25

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For Inquisition we got free weapons, armour, a horse, a tinting feature as part of a patch, some multiplayer stuff for those who like that.

 

 

And if in the past there would not have been such a backslash for free companions, coming with their own quests in new areas we might have gotten even more freebies, but since BioWare is now a part of EA they get criticised for giving larger stuff away for free, while CDPR gets praised for a new haircut as DLC.

 

 

Scam is the wrong word to describe CDPR actions, but the way their fans fall over themselves to praise them for content that is barely worth mentioning is astounding.


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#3253
Guest_john_sheparrd_*

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Ok I finished TW 3 yesterday and overall its a great game (owns DA I in almost every way)
I liked almost everything about it (side quests, open world, story and characters)

But there was one huge flaw and in that regard Bioware is much better:
Save Import

The Save import in TW3 was a joke no decisions mattered and some were even retconned
People critize Bioware for what they did with ME3 but looking back now at least they put some effort into it
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#3254
Guest_john_sheparrd_*

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For Inquisition we got free weapons, armour, a horse, a tinting feature as part of a patch, some multiplayer stuff for those who like that.


And if in the past there would not have been such a backslash for free companions, coming with their own quests in new areas we might have gotten even more freebies, but since BioWare is now a part of EA they get criticised for giving larger stuff away for free, while CDPR gets praised for a new haircut as DLC.


Scam is the wrong word to describe CDPR actions, but the way their fans fall over themselves to praise them for content that is barely worth mentioning is astounding.


Both sides are the same though
Some will defend Bioware and DA I no matter how valid the complaints are, I mean people really get defensive around here

#3255
Andreas Amell

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If it's not as open as Skyrm then it's still not an open world experience. Games like Skyrim, the upcoming Submerged, and Unreal Engine's Kite demo are truly open world. The Witcher games are still inspired by the original ore and driven by its main character, Geralt.

 

I don't care which engine is used. If developers wish to explore 'open world' concepts they need to free the player more from character restrictions, or offer more diversity. If I were in a big fantasy world I don't want to do quests. I want to discover the furthest edges of the world and watch the NPCs just interact on their own. Is there any MMO where players can build around areas of a game and allow other players to visit? If Disney and Lucas Arts allowed fans to build their own online Death Star simulation game that would be the coolest place to explore! Over ten levels to wander around and players can acquire or build their own starting points. If you want to be the poor clerk who sells the smoothies, go ahead! If you want to be an officer stationed near the emperor's throne room,  you get that choice! That's were I see open world developing!



#3256
AmberDragon

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For Inquisition we got free weapons, armour, a horse, a tinting feature as part of a patch, some multiplayer stuff for those who like that.

 

 

And if in the past there would not have been such a backslash for free companions, coming with their own quests in new areas we might have gotten even more freebies, but since BioWare is now a part of EA they get criticised for giving larger stuff away for free, while CDPR gets praised for a new haircut as DLC.

 

 

Scam is the wrong word to describe CDPR actions, but the way their fans fall over themselves to praise them for content that is barely worth mentioning is astounding.

So far it's not just new hair cuts, it's the following:

New hair cuts and facial hair for Geralt

More armour

New look for Yennifer

New Witcher Contract (side quest)

With the promise of more to come at the rate of two free dlcs per week till we have all sixteen! Hardly a scam, especially when it includes new side quests. Oh and I didn't buy the deluxe version or anything the standard version came bundled with the soundtrack cd for free too. 


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#3257
Out to Lunch

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I think HowlingSiren's post #3244 is the best post in the thread. As not only a gamer but a female gamer, I couldn't have said it better.


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#3258
Torgette

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Both sides are the same though
Some will defend Bioware and DA I no matter how valid the complaints are, I mean people really get defensive around here

 

Honestly i've only seen people get really defensive when there's a lot of hyperbole getting thrown around, anytime somebody brings up specific feedback it's rarely ever met with any vitriol.



#3259
The Elder King

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For Inquisition we got free weapons, armour, a horse, a tinting feature as part of a patch, some multiplayer stuff for those who like that.
 
 
And if in the past there would not have been such a backslash for free companions, coming with their own quests in new areas we might have gotten even more freebies, but since BioWare is now a part of EA they get criticised for giving larger stuff away for free, while CDPR gets praised for a new haircut as DLC.
 
 
Scam is the wrong word to describe CDPR actions, but the way their fans fall over themselves to praise them for content that is barely worth mentioning is astounding.

Who complained about free companions :huh:? The companion dlcs Who got most complaints are Sebastian (Who was part of the Collector Edition) and Javik (Who was, once again, part of the Collector's). Neither companions were 'free', since you had to pag more for getting them.
The only companion Who was 'free' was Zaeed, I think (I think he was present in the standard Edition). Shale was free because it was already Planes to be in the Vanilla game and problems with her body model lead her to be cut off.
DAI's situation Was indeed better then the games from DAO to ME3, where there was a lot of weapons, armours and equipment availabe with different preorders or latter Made as paid dlcs.
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#3260
DanAxe

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With all due respect, I think people who have not played TW3 should refrain from having knee-jerk reactions of the “Noooo, never, I hate Geralt”- type, and look at what most people asking BW to take a closer look at TW3 are actually saying.

 

I’m a longtime, huge BioWare fan and they remain my favorite developer, but I have to say, The Witcher 3 is one of the best games I ever played, and to me, it outshines DAI (which I loved btw).  I’m definitely NOT calling for BioWare to make a carbon copy of TW3, to drop the different protagonists or the companions, but there are some aspects of TW3 that I personally believe would greatly enhance any BW game.

 

[...]

 

This is not to me about a dev war or a fan war. This is simply feedback from both a DA and ME fan on what particularly impressed her in another game in the same genre, and what she hopes to experience again. Feel free to take it or leave it, just had to say it. 

 

 

Thanks for that. This is exactly the kind of feedback we should be having in BW forums, not the good for nothing war of rpg's. The witcher 3 related feedback on BW forums should be all converged into one topic starting with HowlingSiren's take on it.

 

This is the kind of attitude that actually helps and makes for great feedback for future games in DA series. Please keep this line of thought guys.



#3261
Torgette

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If it's not as open as Skyrm then it's still not an open world experience. Games like Skyrim, the upcoming Submerged, and Unreal Engine's Kite demo are truly open world. The Witcher games are still inspired by the original ore and driven by its main character, Geralt.

 

I don't care which engine is used. If developers wish to explore 'open world' concepts they need to free the player more from character restrictions, or offer more diversity. If I were in a big fantasy world I don't want to do quests. I want to discover the furthest edges of the world and watch the NPCs just interact on their own. Is there any MMO where players can build around areas of a game and allow other players to visit? If Disney and Lucas Arts allowed fans to build their own online Death Star simulation game that would be the coolest place to explore! Over ten levels to wander around and players can acquire or build their own starting points. If you want to be the poor clerk who sells the smoothies, go ahead! If you want to be an officer stationed near the emperor's throne room,  you get that choice! That's were I see open world developing!

 

There can be multiple styles of open world games, I think the best open world games are ones that feel like playgrounds - something neither CDPR nor Bioware have been able to accomplish. That said them shoehorning open world into their games hasn't been the end of the world, DAI provides Bioware with a lot of learning opportunities and having an open world gave CDPR more opportunities to do what they do well.



#3262
The Elder King

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There can be multiple styles of open world games, I think the best open world games are ones that feel like playgrounds - something neither CDPR nor Bioware have been able to accomplish. That said them shoehorning open world into their games hasn't been the end of the world, DAI provides Bioware with a lot of learning opportunities and having an open world gave CDPR more opportunities to do what they do well.


I'm not sure neither Bioware or CDPR wanted to mais open world games that feel like a playground.

#3263
Torgette

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I'm not sure neither Bioware or CDPR wanted to mais open world games that feel like a playground.

 

Well, it's the foundation for what makes pretty much all open world games work - including Bethesda's games. If they don't want to make something that feels like a playground that's fine, but static open world games suffer heavily for it. IMO both TW3 and DAI could've been linear-based games and still worked fine.



#3264
o Ventus

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Both sides are the same though
Some will defend Bioware and DA I no matter how valid the complaints are, I mean people really get defensive around here

 

Yeah, it's almost as if people feel the need to defend something they like against idiotic and nonsensical attacks. I say attacks and not criticism, because criticism implies the point being made has merit.

 

Not to call any names, but we both know the people I'm talking about.



#3265
ashwind

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I can't believe there are people offended by the fact they're adding free content to a game I already bought and which they could leave as is.

It's hardly a scam. It's called treating your customers with a measure of respect after release. Meanwhile bioware gives us a $15 price tag for yet another map, delays it by two months on most systems and refuses to comment on other platforms as part of the exclusive.

CDPR is releasing two small free dlc packs each week for 8 weeks. If that's a scam I hope others follow in suit because all ea ever gave us was a middle finger between patches, a rehash of the black emporium with no new CC content, and some multiplayer stuff that means nothing to the main game.

CDPR left old gen behind to deliver the best experience they could, bioware cut half their features on all platforms and released it anyway in a state that's barely functional on old consoles. Imagine how much they could have done if those resources had been used properly.

 

Heh, I believe the word AlanC is looking for is "gimmick" - "free DLC marketing gimmick".

 

Of course it is not a scam. I pre-ordered TW3 before hearing about that 16 DLC bonus. Yes it is a bonus. No matter when you buy the game, as long as you buy it, you will get the same deal as everyone else. BONUS

 

Actually my initial feedback is only:

"Bioware, look at the side quests and how it is done in TW3! How the side and main quests sometimes overlap each other and create such a beautiful symphony. TW3 has proven that this much content can be made so dont use time as an excuse next time."


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#3266
omnitremere

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TW3 is great but I definitely don't want DAI to copy it.  There's a focus in their games of making Geralt alone in a world that is fucked up no matter what you do.  That's not what Bioware games are about.  You're meant to have a team and then together you go out and make things significantly better(or worse) than they were before.  Also as has already been mentioned CDPR completely mangled the import and therefore to me the narrative is fucked.  I've played both TW and TW2.  I was excited about a resolution to the story I created.  What I got wasn't anything even close to that.  If I had to make a choice between more cinematics in the game or the system Bioware created to make sure my story was properly represented I would pick the latter every time.  TW3 is good for what it is but I can't agree that Bioware needs to emulate it.


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#3267
o Ventus

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Cool and edgy? Invent a narrative?

 

Yes, inventing a narrative. In this case, the narrative being that DLC and expansions are somehow different.

 

They are not the same thing when it comes to the content and their history and that's what I just explained in my second post. Just because publishers nowadays like to plaster the word DLC over any sort of addition still doesn't make the difference go away as you wish. (hence the misconception of the devs supposedly "lying" about their free DLC plan, when in fact, they weren't. But what else to expect from people who are dead set on finding an malicious and ulterior motive on them, right?)

 

You didn't "explain" anything, you just made it up and tried to pass it off as gospel.
 

Refer to my second post on the matter:
 
Oh, and in case you turn into an edgelord yourself and accuse me of making it up all that, I suggest reading this as well:

 

https://noplatform.w...meaning-of-dlc/ - You definitely might wanna read this one before replying.

http://www.learntoco...uperior-to-dlc/

http://en.wikipedia....oadable_content

http://en.wikipedia..../Expansion_pack

 

1. Don't link the blog of someone who describes themselves as a "freelance editor" as a credible source of information. I shouldn't need to explain why. An article from a site that makes its reputation from contrarian viewpoints is just as valid, too.

 

2. Those Wikipedia articles do not conflict in any way.

 

 

The Wiki page for expansion:

 

An expansion pack, expansion set, supplement, or simply expansion is an addition to an existing role-playing game, tabletop game or video game.

 

Wiki page for DLC:

 

Downloadable content (DLC) is additional content created for a released video game.

 

Remind me again how they're different when the "sources" (the 2 entries that could conceivably be called sources anyway) you've given me don't promote the idea that they're different?


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#3268
correctamundo

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Heh, I believe the word AlanC is looking for is "gimmick" - "free DLC marketing gimmick".

 

Of course it is not a scam. I pre-ordered TW3 before hearing about that 16 DLC bonus. Yes it is a bonus. No matter when you buy the game, as long as you buy it, you will get the same deal as everyone else. BONUS

 

Actually my initial feedback is only:

"Bioware, look at the side quests and how it is done in TW3! How the side and main quests sometimes overlap each other and create such a beautiful symphony. TW3 has proven that this much content can be made so dont use time as an excuse next time."

 

Yeah, I woud like to have The tomb of Fairel and Solasan and some more questlines to have been better tied into the main story. But on the other hand maybe they will in the future, especially regarding Solasan when you think of that last scene ;-)

 

Anyway now that I hve finished DAI I am giving TW3 my attention. It is looking good but what is it with Geralt and his constant converation with himself ? ;-)



#3269
Han Shot First

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If it's not as open as Skyrm then it's still not an open world experience. Games like Skyrim, the upcoming Submerged, and Unreal Engine's Kite demo are truly open world. The Witcher games are still inspired by the original ore and driven by its main character, Geralt.

 

I don't care which engine is used. If developers wish to explore 'open world' concepts they need to free the player more from character restrictions, or offer more diversity. If I were in a big fantasy world I don't want to do quests. I want to discover the furthest edges of the world and watch the NPCs just interact on their own. Is there any MMO where players can build around areas of a game and allow other players to visit? If Disney and Lucas Arts allowed fans to build their own online Death Star simulation game that would be the coolest place to explore! Over ten levels to wander around and players can acquire or build their own starting points. If you want to be the poor clerk who sells the smoothies, go ahead! If you want to be an officer stationed near the emperor's throne room,  you get that choice! That's were I see open world developing!

 

I'm glad TW3 is not more like Skyrim, as it means I would probably not enjoy the game. I prefer CD Projekt Red's approach (or even Bioware's in DA:I) to one where you get a completely open world sandbox, but characters and plot tend to take a backseat.


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#3270
SnakeCode

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I dunno. I've been gaming long enough to see what happens to studios -- and publishers -- that don't think about profitability. When you don't think about financial implications the financial implications will destroy you, sooner or later.

Honestly, I'm more impressed by the CD Projekt guys as businessmen and marketers than as developers. The "free DLC" scam is pure brilliance.

 

Hahahahahahaha!

 

Ehem... Sorry, but you are a person who's defended Bioware's/EA's shady business policies such as day one, on disc DLC multiple times. Then you actually have the gall to call it a scam when another dev gives away DLC for free!

 

 

I usually respect what you have to say Alan, but you done goofed here. You need to read a dictionary and learn what the word scam means, because it's rather evident that you don't know.


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#3271
ashwind

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Scam is the wrong word to describe CDPR actions, but the way their fans fall over themselves to praise them for content that is barely worth mentioning is astounding.

 

See, that is the difference between providing people constantly will a game that feels complete as oppose to a game that feels rushed.

 

Deliver a game that feels complete, every extra tiny addition is a bonus and people will thank you for it.

 

Deliver an ending that feels rush... well people will keep asking for the "complete game" no matter how many free things they give.

 

:whistle:



#3272
Dreadstruck

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snip

 
What is there so hard to understand?
 
I never DENIED they both offer additional content, I am just pointing out the fact there is a DIFFERENCE in what content they're actually offering, since the first day the concept was conceived (and how nowadays the term is used for everything, in spite of notable differences which I also listed or referred to).

 

It's even written there in all 4 links, but I suppose you're just looking for any excuses not to look past the first paragraph just so you can't acknowledge the fact. :rolleyes:

 

If you are unable to grasp such simple logic then I am simply at a loss.

 

Whatever, dropping it. I came here to offer feedback and suggestions and not to argue with a self idolizing clown who is not interested in what's this topic actually about.

 

Feel free having the last word, chump.



#3273
o Ventus

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What is there so hard to understand?

 

 
I never DENIED they both offer additional content, I am just pointing out the fact there is a DIFFERENCE in what content they're actually offering, since the first day the concept was conceived (and how nowadays the term is used for everything, in spite of notable differences which I also listed or referred to).

 

There is no difference in concept. DLC and expansions are fundamentally the same in every way but name. They both offer post-launch content for a game. Literally the only difference is that DLC is downloadable, whereas some expansions can be bought retail on a disk (and DLC can be bought retail as well, but typically in the form of a code that redeems the DLC for download).

 

It's even written there in all 4 links, but I suppose you're just looking for any excuses not to look past the first paragraph just so you can't acknowledge the fact.

 

I directly quoted from the sources and spoke about the authors, so obviously I saw the sources. And both of the articles that aren't from Wikipedia are opinion pieces. There are no facts to acknowledge.

 

If you are unable to grasp such simple logic then I am simply at a loss.

 

Because there's no logic to grasp. 



#3274
CronoDragoon

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To put this in more practical terms, considering the reality of budgets, I'd gladly take half the companions if it meant allocating that money to quests. 12 companions is likely too much a strain. They also put a lot of dialogue into NPCs that a lot of players don't really care about or might not even find to talk to. I wonder how many players exhausted the Investigate dialogue for the Sgt NPC in charge of your Western Approach Keep (you can ask him something like 5-6 things about himself).


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#3275
correctamundo

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To put this in more practical terms, considering the reality of budgets, I'd gladly take half the companions if it meant allocating that money to quests. 12 companions is likely too much a strain. They also put a lot of dialogue into NPCs that a lot of players don't really care about or might not even find to talk to. I wonder how many players exhausted the Investigate dialogue for the Sgt NPC in charge of your Western Approach Keep (you can ask him something like 5-6 things about himself).

 

I wouldn't want to miss out on companions =(. I always rotate and make sure they all get out and get thei hands dirty ;-). I see what you mean and all but I really liked all of my team.


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