15859 réponses à ce sujet

[Dreadstruck]

Well i've got a deadline for a huge project in a week so i'm not doing it!

Rats! You were first on the list.

In all seriousness, I really think it would help.
Since the first post of the new thread would be filled with a list of actual feedback, suggestions or criticism from TW3, the point of the thread would be more than clear to newcomers and it would possibly discourage all the trolls and idiots that would want to hijack the thread with knee-jerk reactions("I hate the Witcher! I hate Geralt!") or useless bickering about gimmicks etc.

 

Buuut maybe I am just overthinking it and this thread is just fine.

 

Oh, also it has been probably said before millions of times, but I really wouldn't mind if Bio came up with some sort of minigame ala Gwent. I think I spent more time collecting and playing the card game than playing the game itself. It's hella addicting

[MoonDrummer]

To be fair here, it's people on both sides responsible for that

Witcher fans are innocent.

 

There was a peaceful thread called Feedback be more like the witcher 3

Where people lived in harmony 

They never had no kind of trouble

There was no hint of misery 

 

The thread saloon was always lively

But never nasty or obscene

Behind the bar stood biowaremod03

He always kept things nice and clean

 

Then all at once the trouble started

A pack of feminazis

Like swarms of locusts they descended

Their aim to make the threadfolk flee

 

(Have you ever seen such cruelty?)

 

Now it is a time of great decision

Are we to stay or up and quit?

There's no avoiding this conclusion

Our thread is turning into ****

 

Disclaimer:

Spoiler

[HowlingSiren]

All this may be quite true. But since CDPR chose to add so much offensive content to the quests, dialogue, story, and small touches, I choose to pass on it, and others are complaining. Even if it is not as pervasive as some describe, it is bad enough to create a tempest in the teacup. I am all for improving games, but this is not the droid I seek....

And before another discussion appears about this being Mature material, one has to go little further than the TW3 threads around here to see posts, pics, and locker room antics that appear to indicate that maturity has little to do with it.

If the content offends you, fair enough. We each have our own sensibilities.  I personally thought it was interesting to roleplay a game with quite a few morally questionable situations. I was forced to empathize with characters or situations I hopefully will never have to confront in real life, and took ages making some choices, as very few things are black and white in that game, indeed. I understand that this is not everyone's cup of tea however, and like I said, fair enough. 

 

But do I want or expect those same themes from a BioWare game? Nope. I'm perfectly happy to have games to play from two thematically very different and very good developers like BW and CDPR. But leaving offensiveness aside, could BioWare benefit from the many things TW3 got right in the game design area? Yes.   

[Elhanan]

If the content offends you, fair enough. We each have our own sensibilities.  I personally thought it was interesting to roleplay a game with quite a few morally questionable situations. I was forced to empathize with characters or situations I hopefully will never have to confront in real life, and took ages making some choices, as very few things are black and white in that game, indeed. I understand that this is not everyone's cup of tea however, and like I said, fair enough. 
 
But do I want or expect those same themes from a BioWare game? Nope. I'm perfectly happy to have games to play from two thematically very different and very good developers like BW and CDPR. But leaving offensiveness aside, could BioWare benefit from the many things TW3 got right in the game design area? Yes.

DAO used the topic of gang rape when discussing the Broodmother. In DA2, the Player had to choose the fate of a pedophile and murderer. In DAI, again murder, rape, slavery, War crimes, desecration of the dead, and much more are topics discussed in a mature manner. No need to lessen restrictions on profanity, illustrate the topical content, etc.

TW3 may have top notch material, but when the language more commonly used offends and degrades, nudity and sex are used more commonly to the point where this is joked about frequently, etc, there may be a problem. Personally, I choose to pass on it; others are challenging such content in a more public manner, and this may not be an issue that gioes away like the TW1 cards.

[SnakeCode]

And here we go again.

[Ashelsu]

 

Relevant to the topic and also shows enjoying both games is not mutually exclusive.

 

(Some spoilers about Baron's questline.)

[HowlingSiren]

DAO used the topic of gang rape when discussing the Broodmother. In DA2, the Player had to choose the fate of a pedophile and murderer. In DAI, again murder, rape, slavery, War crimes, desecration of the dead, and much more are topics discussed in a mature manner. No need to lessen restrictions on profanity, illustrate the topical content, etc.

TW3 may have top notch material, but when the language more commonly used offends and degrades, nudity and sex are used more commonly to the point where this is joked about frequently, etc, there may be a problem. Personally, I choose to pass on it; others are challenging such content in a more public manner, and this may not be an issue that gioes away like the TW1 cards.

With regard to the themes, there is no way I would say that TW3 addresses these immaturely, just as I wouldn't say that of BW. They just tackle them differently. 

 

If indeed you find crude language and nudity offensive, then TW3 is not a game for you as you will indeed see a naked female bodies no matter what you do and yes, people in that world do swear. I will say though that outside of the optional brothel scenes (like there were in DAO and that are just easily skipped), the sex scenes are part of well-developed love stories with what I felt to be strong, independent, very well-written women. Frankly I fail to see what there is to joke about, unless the mere fact of showing breasts in a game is a matter for ridicule? 

 

What I to be honest find most ridiculous is that a 100+ hour game with brilliant storytelling and game design, great characters and deep lore is reduced to the presence of boobs and the F-word. Reminds me a bit of the furore around the ME1 sex scene when that's all anyone would talk about for a while. Well, just like ME1, TW3 is a lot more than that.

[Elhanan]

With regard to the themes, there is no way I would say that TW3 addresses these immaturely, just as I wouldn't say that of BW. They just tackle them differently. 
 
If indeed you find crude language and nudity offensive, then TW3 is not a game for you as you will indeed see a naked female bodies no matter what you do and yes, people in that world do swear. I will say though that outside of the optional brothel scenes (like there were in DAO and that are just easily skipped), the sex scenes are part of well-developed love stories with what I felt to be strong, independent, very well-written women. Frankly I fail to see what there is to joke about, unless the mere fact of showing breasts in a game is a matter for ridicule? 
 
What I to be honest find most ridiculous is that a 100+ hour game with brilliant storytelling and game design, great characters and deep lore is reduced to the presence of boobs and the F-word. Reminds me a bit of the furore around the ME1 sex scene when that's all anyone would talk about for a while. Well, just like ME1, TW3 is a lot more than that.

Possibly, but explain that to Conan and the rest of the internet....

[dreamgazer]

Gotta say, I can understand why some folks wouldn't be able to stomach certain things about Witcher's gray-area, no-win content. Some of it is, indeed, aggressively nihilistic. Ladies of the Wood comes to mind, and that's available way early in the game. I thought that entire quest was fantastic for a bunch of reasons, but the repercussions of that final decision would put some BioWare bleeding hearts into a mental ward.

[FKA_Servo]

With regard to the themes, there is no way I would say that TW3 addresses these immaturely, just as I wouldn't say that of BW. They just tackle them differently. 

 

If indeed you find crude language and nudity offensive, then TW3 is not a game for you as you will indeed see a naked female bodies no matter what you do and yes, people in that world do swear. I will say though that outside of the optional brothel scenes (like there were in DAO and that are just easily skipped), the sex scenes are part of well-developed love stories with what I felt to be strong, independent, very well-written women. Frankly I fail to see what there is to joke about, unless the mere fact of showing breasts in a game is a matter for ridicule? 

 

What I to be honest find most ridiculous is that a 100+ hour game with brilliant storytelling and game design, great characters and deep lore is reduced to the presence of boobs and the F-word. Reminds me a bit of the furore around the ME1 sex scene when that's all anyone would talk about for a while. Well, just like ME1, TW3 is a lot more than that.

 

To be fair, the sex cards were a matter for ridicule. I am willing to reserve judgment on the unicorn sex.

 

I will say that nothing could be dumber than the scenes we got in DAO through ME3.

[Seraphim24]

And here we go again.

 

I tire of these games but if you (or Tishen) want to fight the fights consider you have some spiritual support.

[Hazegurl]

Warning long post. Who knows how long this thread has so I thought I'd throw in as many of my thoughts in one post as possible.  Hopefully without writing an essay.  I do have other opinions about this but I think this wraps up my major issues with DAI.

 

What I liked about TW3 and my comparison to DAI.

 

Protagonist

Geralt had a life, history, and his own story.  Because of this I was able to connect to him as a person while at the same time shaping him as a character.  Geralt also had a personal involvement in the events in the story.  He had someone to protect, to care for.  The stakes were high because they were high for him.

 

The Inquisitor had no life, history, or his own story. This made him very generic, a John Q Everyman so that everyone can pretend to be him.  Therefore there is nothing unique about the IQ himself, nothing to draw me in to want to get to know him and how he relates to the world and the events around him.  He has no personal stake.  He's there to protect everyone.

 

The problem with protecting everyone is there is no personal stake in the matter, no "face" to anchor the IQ to events taking place.  Even the Mass Effect team realized they needed to show Shepard's personal involvement and how the Reaper invasion affected him by using the little boy.  Now, I would argue that it was poorly done.  Which it was. But I understood their intent in ME3.

 

What TW3 does better than ME3 is make the "face" something far more tangible by making it someone the PC actually cares for.  Ciri. For those of us who haven't read the books, we have no prior info about Ciri or how Geralt feels about her.  So CDPR introduces us to Ciri through Geralt's dream.  We see him train her, her interactions with the other Witchers, what life was probably like for them all when she was at Kaer Morhan. From this we know Ciri is important to him and the game reminds us at every turn by giving us special moments with Ciri, the hugs, the pep talks.  These moments are what makes Ciri important and likeable to us the player as we experience Geralt and Ciri's relationship through Geralt's eyes.

 

The IQ has none of this to tie him to the story. He's a generic every day RPG PC. 

 

Villain

I would say both games didn't do a good job of showing their villains but I think TW3's villains, The Wild Hunt, had a good reason for doing what they were doing.  

Spoiler

They wanted to take over and cross their people into "Geralt's world"  to escape the White Frost.

Much better than Cory's rebuilding of Tevinter motivation. However, The Wild Hunt appeared strong and intelligent whereas Cory appeared reckless and silly.  The only time Cory appears with great force is the attack on Haven.  Afterwards the IQ is beating him and his "army" back like they are pestering flies moreso than a real threat.  

 

Whenever we faced the Wild Hunt in TW3, it was at key moment in the story.  Planning and preparation was needed before facing them in battle.  They weren't just trash mobs scattered throughout the map.  CDPR treated them with care and didn't saturate us with them to the point where we can just hand wave an encounter with them.

 

Side quests

If the main story is the meat then the side quests are the potatoes. TW3 gave us big freshly baked potatoes with cheese, bacon bits, and sour cream and chives on top.  DAI gave us some little mini potatoes nuked in the microwave and didn't even bother handing us some butter.  

 

TW3 side quests had character interactions, twists, atmosphere.  A Witcher contract wasn't always JUST a contract. The conclusion wasn't always JUST the conclusion.  The cut scenes focusing on the faces of the characters and not the back of Geralt's head aided us in connecting with them the way Geralt himself would, because we are seeing from his perspective.  Take the first major Witcher contract you can have.  The Ghost at the Well. When Geralt visits the man who posted the notice, the man brings you into the room as he's talking about his sick daughter, you then see her laying there ill with her mother tending to her. The man explains why he needs the ghost gone, she needs clean water because she can't keep anything else down.   This connection is missing in DAI. Especially with a PC who is supposed to be centered on protecting everyone.

 

If I'm supposed to feel something for everyone, then at least show me the people I'm supposed to protect. Let me in on their lives and problems.  Not give me a note in a ditch.

 

Player Choice

Continuing from the Ghost in the Well contract.  When the man explains his problem, I as the player is left with a choice.  To help, haggle, or take whatever deal he's willing to offer because helping him out is more important.  None of these options scream "good" or "evil" these are just choices left up to the player to decide how to handle this particular situation.  If you choose to haggle. Geralt explains that he feels for him, but this is a job for him, and you can proceed to haggle a better deal. In my first pt I got a good deal and helped him out.  In my second pt the man refused to pay the amount I asked and I left and went on about my own business.  

 

I don't know if there were any consequences for helping or not helping.  However, for every seemingly minor side quest we have the Baron quest, which has been talked about to death so I won't get into it.

 

World

Once again something that has been spoken about a lot.  DAI felt lifeless. You never get the sense that you're talking to real people.  You never truly see how the hole in the sky affects anyone.  They tell you they are afraid and that they need blankets et al but we're never shown the devastation.  In TW3 we see the affects of war and the cruel acts by those in charge.  We've also seen the good and bad by those on all sides.

 

Ex: You can take a Witcher contract to help find this guy's brother. We find him only to see that he was saved by an enemy soldier.  We see that these are all just men making due with the decisions their leaders handed down to them. It doesn't mean everyone is reluctant to fight but not everyone is eager to spill blood mindlessly.

 

In DAI, the Red Templars are bad and the Venatori are bad. End of discussion. The only time we see some complexity is with Samson and Calpurnia.

 

Companions & Characters

DAI and TW3 have good companions and LIs.  DAI certainly has more diversity.  Which is good. The only problem is that I never felt like they were my IQ's real friends. It's not like ME and TW where we have a set PC.  In DA we are constantly meeting new people for the first time so it's hard to feel close to them or see them as friends you can rely on. Actually DA2 did a good job of establishing the friendships and a lot of that had to do with showing us the passage of time and giving us a more personal story.  Yeah, I know DA2 wasn't perfect not even in showing the passage of time but they at least tried.

 

I personally don't understand why people even want cameos in every DA game when it add nothing to the story at all.  Seeing Kaidan in ME3 again is not the same as seeing Leliana again in DAI, and not the same as seeing Roche again in TW3.

 

Shepard has a past connection with Kaidan, we can continue Kaidan's story and friendship or form a new type of relationship.  With Roche, we see what he's been up to and it hardly feels like prying.  Over all, you are really catching up with an old friend/companion.  With the IQ and Leliana, we meet her...again. Sure she has a story we can continue but that connection isn't there.  You're not the Warden, the man or woman she had that great adventure with, formed a bond with et al. It's just not the same.  It never feels like a true continuation and at worst the IQ seems like some nosy busy body and Leliana seems like she's regressed as a person.  

 

Ending

TW3. Do I need to go on? Once again, they use their villains wisely and facing them requires planning and preparations.  They don't just pop up randomly and we teleport to a random location to face off against an invisible army.  Everything makes sense in the TW3 and the final fight is more personal.  CDPR put some thought into how to tell their story overall. I may not agree with everything CDPR did but I know they put some thought into it.  They didn't just check mark their list of assets, fill whatever quota they felt they needed to fill then called it a day. Geralt's story wasn't treated as an afterthought, some placecard to read. Hate him for being a fixed PC all you like, but you can't call him some run of mill RPG PC.

 

Well that's my full feedback. TL;DR.

 

The last time a game had a big impact on me was The Last of Us.  I've played other games since then but none that made me care about the characters and story the way I do, until TW3.  

[dreamgazer]

The unicorn sex is pretty ridiculous.

Conan O'Brien thinks it's the best thing that's ever happened to him in his whole life.

https://youtu.be/SfjLRuE1CLw?t=9m19s

[midnight tea]

Gotta say, I can understand why some folks wouldn't be able to stomach certain things about Witcher's gray-area, no-win content. Some of it is, indeed, aggressively nihilistic. Ladies of the Wood comes to mind, and that's available way early in the game. I thought that entire quest was fantastic for a bunch of reasons, but the repercussions of that final decision would put some BioWare bleeding hearts into a mental ward.

 

Some of it is also unnecessary. I still don't get why - out of a sudden - I have to choose between two downer endings, like between

Spoiler

letting peasants hang the Nilfgaardian deserter or killing them to save him

... Why did Geralt suddenly lost his ability to use Axii (and I've even had it leveled for stronger effect) or didn't resort to just scaring or threatening the villagers, like he sometimes does?

[KBomb]

TW3 may have top notch material, but when the language more commonly used offends and degrades, nudity and sex are used more commonly to the point where this is joked about frequently, etc, there may be a problem. Personally, I choose to pass on it; others are challenging such content in a more public manner, and this may not be an issue that gioes away like the TW1 cards.

I just want to touch on this comment because I have seen a lot of threadites comment on how much sex is in TW3. This is how I always know they haven't touched the game. 

 

First of all, AFAIK and/or I am doing something wrong--TW3 does not open with a sex scene. Nudity =/= sex scene.

 

Second, I have poured about 50+ hours in the game already and Geralt has had one sexual encounter and that was with Triss, whom my Geralt is in love with. That scene was more tame than Sera and femInquisitor. So, if someone is joking about how much sex is in TW3, they're doing so while misinformed.

 

About the Unicorn...

Spoiler

Even the infamous unicorn scene is a scene between Geralt and Yennifer and as far as I know, you only get it if you choose her. People need to get over that. Seriously. The entire Iron Bull romance is worse than that.

 

All other sex scenes are optional. 

[Iakus]

To be fair, the sex cards were a matter for ridicule. I am willing to reserve judgment on the unicorn sex.

 

I will say that nothing could be dumber than the scenes we got in DAO through ME3.

I have seen the unicorn scene.

 

You would be wrong 

[dreamgazer]

Some of it is also unnecessary. I still don't get why - out of a sudden - I have to choose between two downer endings, like between letting peasants hang the Nilfgaardian deserter or killing them to save him... Why did Geralt suddenly lost his ability to use Axii (and I've even had it leveled for stronger effect) or didn't resort to just scaring or threatening the villagers, like he sometimes does?

Yeah, the availability of Axii persuasion is a constant plot hole. There are countless situations where it would've been highly beneficial had it been available, and would've cut out a lot of bullshit Geralt has to deal with.

[Torgette]

Warning long post. Who knows how long this thread has so I thought I'd throw in as many of my thoughts in one post as possible.  Hopefully without writing an essay.  I do have other opinions about this but I think this wraps up my major issues with DAI.

 

What I liked about TW3 and my comparison to DAI.

 

Protagonist

 

Villain

 

Side quests

 

Player Choice

 

World

 

Companions & Characters

 

Ending

 

Thanks for writing this up, good feedback. 

[HowlingSiren]

 

 

Relevant to the topic and also shows enjoying both games is not mutually exclusive.

 

(Some spoilers about Baron's questline.)

Lady Insanity makes some interesting points. I agree that is indeed harder for games with multiple origins like DAO/DAI to have the world react to you in all that diversity. But regardless of race or origin, you always have the same role. You are the Warden. You are the Inquisitor. It's conceivable to me that like for witchers, NPCs would have a view about that role, and for their perception to evolve based on your actions/decisions. 

 

With regard to quest design, that Bloody Baron/Ladies of the Woods questline was one of the best ones I ever played. You don't see them intersecting, there are no right choices, you can't help but empathize with the Baron despite his horrible flaws because of what he did for Ciri. It's so complex and dark it left me in shock and awe. 

[Iakus]

 

What I to be honest find most ridiculous is that a 100+ hour game with brilliant storytelling and game design, great characters and deep lore is reduced to the presence of boobs and the F-word. Reminds me a bit of the furore around the ME1 sex scene when that's all anyone would talk about for a while. Well, just like ME1, TW3 is a lot more than that.

 

Because the sex and language in The Witcher series is a bit more than the second or two of sideboob in ME1?

 

I understand it's part of how this particular universe works, but not everyone needs a load of graphic nudity to tell a romantic story.  

[KBomb]

Yeah, the availability of Axii persuasion is a constant plot hole. There are countless situations where it would've been highly beneficial had it been available, and would've cut out a lot of bullshit Geralt has to deal with.

There are some encounters in the game where Geralt uses it on someone with people around them and they call him out on it and attack him. I can't speak for the scene midnight is referring to because I haven't got there yet. (Please, use spoiler tags) I really like that they added reactions though and would like to see more games do things like that. 

[midnight tea]

There are some encounters in the game where Geralt uses it on someone with people around them and they call him out on it and attack him. I can't speak for the scene midnight is referring to because I haven't got there yet. (Please, use spoiler tags) I really like that they added reactions though and would like to see more games do things like that. 

 

Sorry about that. You can encounter the quest in Velen (Hangman's Alley quicktravel mark). And no, there was no-one there who could call that out. There are only two options we can choose from, artificially limited, I've felt - there wasn't even an option to bribe people, like we sometimes get.

[HowlingSiren]

Because the sex and language in The Witcher series is a bit more than the second or two of sideboob in ME1?

 

I understand it's part of how this particular universe works, but not everyone needs a load of graphic nudity to tell a romantic story.  

If you mind nudity and crude language, that is absolutely your prerogative and TW3 is not for you. But I don't see posters here clamoring for more sex and swearing (though I admit I did not read through all 120 pages). I think the points a lot of us are trying to highlight when talking about TW3 is quest design, storytelling, how to make a story feel deeply personal and how to make an open world game feel full and alive and never like a chore or a grind. 

 

I'd understand if all the objections to nudity and swearing came as a response to posts asking for more of that, but what I see is people making posts about anything but that, and getting hit with the "but it's offensive" hammer, which generally has nothing to do with what the poster was actually saying. 

 

When people post about quest design, I'd expect criticism if there is any, to be directed at that topic. Not have replies like "I don't know about quest design, but TW3 is bad because it has nudity". 

[KBomb]

Sorry about that. You can encounter the quest in Velen (Hangman's Alley quicktravel mark). And no, there was no-one there who could call that out. There are only two options we can choose from, artificially limited, I've felt - there wasn't even an option to bribe people, like we sometimes get.

It's okay. Yesterday I posted a spoiler and had to run back and tag it. Easy to forget sometimes.