15865 réponses à ce sujet

[Torgette]

I was able to not empathize with him easily. The guy was a monster.

 

Same.

[Zinho73]

Both games are rated M for a mature audience. Mature people should be able to deal with the odd scene involving nudity, and some harsh language every now and again. Not saying one has to cheer for it, just be able to deal with it and accept it.

I could not agree more, sir.

 

And on a personal note: It is true that the violence and sex in most "mature" games tend to go for juvenile excess, but sometimes they got it right and when they don't it is very funny. To me is a win-win situation.

 

Also, i am one of those weirdos that believe that if you can deal with a graphic beheading, you should be able to deal with an orgy with at least five participants, one domesticated animal and a banana.

 

You may not like it, and that's fine, but if you are going out of your way to not see the scene I agree you should not play the game - or any mature titles at all, because the risk will always be there. 

[Rawgrim]

I could not agree more, sir.

 

And on a personal note: It is true that the violence and sex in most "mature" games tend to go for juvenile excess, but sometimes they got it right and when they don't it is very funny. To me is a win-win situation.

 

Also, i am one of those weirdos that believe that if you can deal with a graphic beheading, you should be able to deal with an orgy with at least five participants, one domesticated animal and a banana.

 

You may not like it, and that's fine, but if you are going out of your way to not see the scene I agree you should not play the game - or any mature titles at all, because the risk will always be there. 

 

I mean you need only turn on the tv or read the news to see far worse stuff than what is in a video game. And the stuff in the game is pure fiction.

[Torgette]

I could not agree more, sir.

 

And on a personal note: It is true that the violence and sex in most "mature" games tend to go for juvenile excess, but sometimes they got it right and when they don't it is very funny. To me is a win-win situation.

 

Also, i am one of those weirdos that believe that if you can deal with a graphic beheading, you should be able to deal with an orgy with at least five participants, one domesticated animal and a banana.

 

You may not like it, and that's fine, but if you are going out of your way to not see the scene I agree you should not play the game - or any mature titles at all, because the risk will always be there. 

 

Video game sex is basically the sex scene from Team America.

[Zinho73]

 

Considering the game starts with a post-sex scene, the answer is no. 

 

The difference is in DAI it was optional whereas in TW3 it is not. 

 

I think you can skip the cut scene. It you don't, we are talking about three or four seconds of butt (and maybe two seconds of breasts) that is not optional in the whole game, just close your eyes. If you cannot I agree this is not the game for you.

 

Also, about optional: you must remember that this is just hindsight, or familiarity with the series, the game still has it. With familiarity and hindsight you can skip all content that you do not want in both games. Well, maybe not foul language, as you would lose most of the story, but sex? Very easy.

 

But I must admit this is a very complex issue to me. I don't know what triggers this level of offense.

 

Hearing it is offensive? Kissing passionately with clothes on is offensive? Two characters talking about it with some detail is offensive? Just the naked person is offensive or they have to be having sex? 

 

And I am not being sarcastic here. I really cannot measure this as I have no issue whatsoever with the subject and do not know any adult that have it at this level. Yes, I know some people that blush occasionally, but that the extent of it.

[Zinho73]

Video game sex is basically the sex scene from Team America.

Yes! One of the best sex scenes ever.

 

But I think the teasing in The Witcher is well done.

[midnight tea]

I mean you need only turn on the tv or read the news to see far worse stuff than what is in a video game. And the stuff in the game is pure fiction.

 

I don't mind things like sex or foul language in games or any other medium, unless it's done immaturely or for sake of 'sex and foul language' being there.

 

But with Witcher... let me just say it, with Polish version... it kinda feels "right at home" for me

 

I live in rural region of Poland, so I hear this kind of old type dialect ("gwara") I frequently hear in game IRL - I grew up surrounded by it. And naturally, there's also a TON of swearing in there (you should hear some of my family members... Jeez...).

Normal folks just talk that way - there was little place for eloquence and finesse, especially among common people, peasants and the like. They swore colorfully 20 years ago and they did it at times equivalent to Witcher. It's just how life is.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I think you can skip the cut scene. It you don't, we are talking about three or four seconds of butt (and maybe two seconds of breasts) that is not optional in the whole game, just close your eyes. If you cannot I agree this is not the game for you.

I was bringing that scene up not for the nudity, but the fact that it establishes a romance between the protagonist and an NPC, which was what the poster I was replying to was asking about. 

 

Also, about optional: you must remember that this is just hindsight, or familiarity with the series, the game still has it. With familiarity and hindsight you can skip all content that you do not want in both games. Well, maybe not foul language, as you would lose most of the story, but sex? Very easy.

The ability to skip something does not make it optional. For example I can skip through the scene of Shepard talking to the Citadel Council, but that doesn't mean speaking to them is optional. And there are times you have to select dialogue options while it is on the screen, so the whole "skip scene or close your eyes" doesn't work.

[Zinho73]

I was bringing that scene up not for the nudity, but the fact that it establishes a romance between the protagonist and an NPC, which was what the poster I was replying to was asking about. 

 

If it was only for narrative purposes, the scene is not real, that's not an obligatory romance but an insight in Geralt's emotional state (that can change with players actions).

 

Choosing to skip a cutscene IS optional - it is something that the players chose to do on their own volition. And the dialogue you lose is not even integral to the plot. Choosing not to go on the love path in DAI makes you lose much more stuff in terms of dialogue and character development. When you talk to yenn she is already clothed. Same thing with Keira Metz.

[Out to Lunch]

@Hanako Ikezawa - but you forgot to mention that that scene occurs in a dream after which Geralt states that Yennefer was never there with him. It was just a dream and not proof that they are or were in a relationship. At least, I hope having a naughty dream doesn't imply real life relationship or I might have some 'splainin to do.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

If it was only for narrative purposes, the scene is not real, that's not an obligatory romance but an insight in Geralt's emotional state (that can change with players actions).

@Hanako Ikezawa - but you forgot to mention that that scene occurs in a dream after which Geralt states that Yennefer was never there with him. It was just a dream and not proof that they are or were in a relationship. At least, I hope having a naughty dream doesn't imply real life relationship or I might have some 'splainin to do.

CDPR themselves said that scene was literally to establish for the player that Geralt and Yennifer have a relationship. 

 

"We are establishing that your character was intimate with this woman recently in order to plant in your mind, that, at the very least, he must enjoy her company," Senior Game Designer Damien Monhier said. "Through sex we have shown that this is a person who Geralt would be compelled to chase after if she went missing."

"Sex is the quickest way to establish a meaningful relationship between characters," Monhier explained, and to justify Geralt's pursuit of Yennefer. "We couldn't just tell you to go find someone you don't know or care about," he said. "It wouldn't work."

http://www.pcgamer.c...ne-mo-cap-data/

[Zinho73]

CDPR themselves said that scene was literally to establish for the player that Geralt and Yennifer have a relationship. 

The keyword is had, in the past. In the actual game if you want  to have a relationship with her you are going to have to work on it. And there are other options (or none).

 

Also, if you skip the scene, the past relationship is clearly explained elsewhere.

 

The scene helps to establish the nature of their relationship, but this is also hinted in their dialogue, is not fundamental to the plot and, if you are skipping the scene is because you know what happens on it (hindsight), so you have all the information you need.

 

Trust me, if you skip all the sex scenes on the game all you lose is the sex scenes, some funny dialogue and situations, awkward animations and somewhat well done naked 3D models.

 

I happen to think that those dialogues give the game a lot of character and love them, but you are losing much less content than if you skip the love paths in DAI.

[Zinho73]

The keyword is had, in the past. In the actual game if you want  to have a relationship with her you are going to have to work on it. And there are other options (or none).

 

Also, if you skip the scene, the past relationship is clearly explained elsewhere.

 

The scene helps to establish the nature of their relationship, but this is also hinted in their dialogue, is not fundamental to the plot and, if you are skipping the scene is because you know what happens on it (hindsight), so you have all the information you need.

 

Trust me, if you skip all the sex scenes on the game all you lose is the sex scenes, some funny dialogue and situations, awkward animations and somewhat well done naked 3D models.

 

I happen to think that those dialogues give the game a lot of character and love them, but you are losing much less content than if you skip the love paths in DAI.

To be honest, I must make a correction: I do not know if all love paths in DAI lead to sex scenes. Maybe there is one or two that involves a platonic relationship, or fade into black sex (wich may be still an issue, I don't know).

 

But I do know a few have the scenes and at least a couple of other encounters that can end in sex (that are usually fade to black sex).

 

And since you have several paths and stages in INquisition, it is actually harder to avoid it in DAI than in TW3, unless you avoid all hearts options (the "relationship" button"). This is a lot of content skipped. Before settling with Sera I was able to explore the option with several other characters, and for all the criticisms I have about DAI, there was a lot of funny and even touching moments behind the "relationship" button.

 

My point. If you want to avoid all sexy content in both games you will either lose more content in DAI (some very good stuff) or you will have to jump through more loops in DAI.

[KBomb]

@Hanako Ikezawa - but you forgot to mention that that scene occurs in a dream after which Geralt states that Yennefer was never there with him. It was just a dream and not proof that they are or were in a relationship. At least, I hope having a naughty dream doesn't imply real life relationship or I might have some 'splainin to do.

God, if naughty dreams implied real relationships, I'd be a habitual cheater. It was pretty clear to me the dream wasn't about sex, but about familiarity and intimacy. Ciri was in the dream too. It represented the family structure and categorized the relationships he had with both women for the players not familiar with the series. That is how I viewed it anyway.

[Rawgrim]

To be honest, I must make a correction: I do not know if all love paths in DAI lead to sex scenes. Maybe there is one or two that involves a platonic relationship, or fade into black sex (wich may be still an issue, I don't know).

 

But I do know a few have the scenes and at least a couple of other encounters that can end in sex (that are usually fade to black sex).

 

And since you have several paths and stages in INquisition, it is actually harder to avoid it in DAI than in TW3, unless you avoid all hearts options (the "relationship" button"). This is a lot of content skipped. Before settling with Sera I was able to explore the option with several other characters, and for all the criticisms I have about DAI, there was a lot of funny and even touching moments behind the "relationship" button.

 

My point. If you want to avoid all sexy content in both games you will either lose more content in DAI (some very good stuff) or you will have to jump through more loops in DAI.

 

It does say "contains sexual content" or whatever right on the gamebox, though. If people are offended by such things it is on them, really. The warning is a hint.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

To be honest, I must make a correction: I do not know if all love paths in DAI lead to sex scenes. Maybe there is one or two that involves a platonic relationship, or fade into black sex (wich may be still an issue, I don't know).

For DAI, the breakdown of romances is this. 

 

Cassandra, Cullen(?), The Iron Bull: Mandatory sex scenes

Dorian, Rainier, Sera: Optional sex scenes

Solas: No sex scene but reference to sex

Josephine: no sex scene or reference to sex

 

So there are romances in DAI that don't have sex scenes and the player doesn't miss out on any content.

 

Just letting you know since you said you didn't.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

God, if naughty dreams implied real relationships, I'd be a habitual cheater. It was pretty clear to me the dream wasn't about sex, but about familiarity and intimacy. Ciri was in the dream too. It represented the family structure and categorized the relationships he had with both women for the players not familiar with the series. That is how I viewed it anyway.

Hey, I'm just saying what CDPR said. 

[Gundar3]

I'm not sure how much Bioware wants to look at the Witcher, from their perspective - which is something that really saddens me.  I hope they ultimately do.  But, I think Bioware has gone to great lengths to create a "new" fanbase for themselves that is distinct from their older fans.  The fanbase of the Witcher and of new Bioware titles is frankly, very different.  I would say it lies on overtly political lines.  If I elaborate, it would further derail the thread, but I think anyone that has stuck around these forums (post ME2) has felt its touch in some way or another.

 

Will Bioware learn from Witcher?  I don't think so, because they don't want too.  Its that simple... But...  With the audacity of hope...  And that Bioware wants more money... Bioware should try to sort out the paradox of set-protagonist versus free-protagonist.

 

/em soapbox

 

I think for the current Bioware RPG fans, this is the greatest thing to address and could potentially merit a return of lost fans, if Bioware actually cares for such things.  Trying to solve the question of "more sex" or "offensive" dare I say "triggering" language, is juvenile and either can not, or will not be solved by the current Bioware team.  Which is not really a dig at them, because I don't think its a problem to solve at all anyway.  Nor can it be.  

 

What players may find "offensive" in the real world should NEVER be a weight around the ankle of artistic creation and storytelling.  I don't care if its sex, language, or treatment of individuals or groups. 

 

/em off_soapbox

 

So the question is:  How can writers evoke the same emotion and feeling with a free-protagonist, as a set-protagonist?

 

Geralt is remarkably a blank slate when the gamer gets their hands on them.  You are allowed to determine his thoughts and feelings.  This is done remarkably well even determining what quests you decide to pick up.  The majority of the quests in my journal are greyed out simply because I out-leveled them.  Which means that if I do them, its simply to see their story unfold, and to interact with the characters, and to change the world in which I am currently in.

 

This allows for the establishing of long lasting relationships more easily than free-protagonist, because dialogue and social queues can be given to convey emotion more readily.  All of the atmosphere that characters provide around Geralt, can only be done because of the fact that he is set.  He has previous relationships with them.  They treat and know him not as a new stranger, but as a person with agency whom they interact with.

 

I completely agree with others, that the amount of emotion that Geralt shows, especially in regards to Ciri, is actually beautiful.  It completely blindsided me, when a certain dopler takes her form, as a joke.  I laughed as well.  The scene lasted for less than a minute, but went from a joke to feeling sorry and apologizing to Geralt.  You could see how broken he was by merely the sight of her.  No dialogue needed.

 

How can Bioware generate this emotional compulsion within the player, with a free-protag?  Thats what I want.  Nothing wrong with Geralt at all, being who he is, but if I had my druthers, and I think a lot of gamers here want also, a protagonist that we can create.  But I acknowledge that the more free the protag becomes, the less emotion we can pull from NPCs.  Because those relationships don't exist anymore.  Its a trade-off.

 

For instance, do the stories and side-quests take a different tone if Geralt's sex was switched?  I would say absolutely, yes.  All of his relationships would be remarkable different.  The way the very world would look at him would be different.  An awesome scene in my mind would be that if Geralt is male, people despise him for being a Witcher (normal), but if he were a female AND a Witcher?  People would despise her, AND not take her seriously....  A woman! With 2 swords on her back?  She's probably having a hard time standing!  hahaha.....  Then witcherette Geraltina (IS GIVEN THE CHOICE) to lay the blaggards out.  The scenes and emotion behind them are very different, with a new dimension.

 

This is the player agency that I crave.  I don't know if it can be done, because I have never seen it.  The closest to this was KOTOR imo.  KOTOR touched many of our childhoods.  

 

The Witcher touched my life in a way that not many games have.  It holds a special place in my heart.  All of it.  Frankly, its beginning  to heal the hole in me left by Bioware.

 

Bioware, PLEASE try to invoke that emotion in me again.  You were the ones that showed me it was possible to touch players like that in the first place with your characters and settings and ATMOSPHERE.  I'd like to be able to create a character, AND have the connections and feelings that the Witcher provides.

 

Its a trade-off.  Its a paradox.  But make it happen. 

[TheRaccoon]

Ok. So I eventually played some more TW3 last night after a somewhat long pause on the game. I guess I figured out why I felt bored. Since this is the feedback subforum, I am trying to write it more feedback-like. (Sorry for wall of text. I am not very good at orgainising my thoughts, it seems  )

 

- Side quests

I'm not far in TW3 so I would not comment on the main quests but as I said before, the side quests are more interesting and layered than DAI. The progress and how the quests are obtained are convincing (while DAI has quests triggered once you picked up some random notes on the ground whatsoever and also not voiced..). The questgiver seems more genuine as in they really need help. (There are more cutscenes as well, though I don't really care about side quest cutscenes). 

 

Though the quest system in TW3 is way better than most of the side quests in DAI, there are flaws as well. (1) I really think the side quests in TW3 lack a sense of achievement. Maybe due to the fact I am still in Velen, but I don't see the advantages of doing side quests. Yes, they give you money and maybe you can find some loots  Sometimes the villages will become populated again if I clear out the bandits but this does not motivate me enough to complete all the side quests. Meanwhile, I can earn power, influence and agents completing side quests in DAI which are arguable essential to your playthrough. (2) It lacks short easy quests. Of course I can go clear out bandits, killing drowners on the map but these are hardly 'quests'. I want some simple short quests (maybe running some errands) to earn me some quick money.

 

- Open world

I must admit I am no big fan of the open world of TW3. What I always do is mark an area on the map, let the horse ride me there and clear the area, then NEXT. I am forced to move around the map in DAI to mark landmark, grab codex etc. But I seldom need to do that in TW3 unless I need to collect some herbs. I also appreciate the ability to jump in DAI. I enjoy jumping my way to the 'unreachable' mountains like I always did in Skyrim. And while TW3 provides bigger maps with day/night dynamic, DAI provides smaller but denser maps with more varieties (from forest, to snowy mountains).

 

In short, the quest system in TW3 is overall better and the open world is also arguably better than those in DAI. However, DAI should not directly copy them from TW3 but to find a balance between what's present in DAI and the merits of TW3.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

How can Bioware generate this emotional compulsion within the player, with a free-protag?  Thats what I want.  Nothing wrong with Geralt at all, being who he is, but if I had my druthers, and I think a lot of gamers here want also, a protagonist that we can create.  But I acknowledge that the more free the protag becomes, the less emotion we can pull from NPCs.  Because those relationships don't exist anymore.  Its a trade-off.

 

For instance, do the stories and side-quests take a different tone if Geralt's sex was switched?  I would say absolutely, yes.  All of his relationships would be remarkable different.  The way the very world would look at him would be different.  An awesome scene in my mind would be that if Geralt is male, people despise him for being a Witcher (normal), but if he were a female AND a Witcher?  People would despise her, AND not take her seriously....  A woman! With 2 swords on her back?  She's probably having a hard time standing!  hahaha.....  Then witcherette Geraltina (IS GIVEN THE CHOICE) to lay the blaggards out.  The scenes and emotion behind them are very different, with a new dimension.

I think this question could be answered or at least used as an example, good or bad, when CDPR tries their hand at making a free-protagonist. We'll find out eventually since their next game Cyberpunk 2077 will be doing exactly that. 

[AresKeith]

For DAI, the breakdown of romances is this. 

 

Cassandra, Cullen(?), The Iron Bull: Mandatory sex scenes

Dorian, Rainier, Sera: Optional sex scenes

Solas: No sex scene but reference to sex

Josephine: no sex scene or reference to sex

 

So there are romances in DAI that don't have sex scenes and the player doesn't miss out on any content.

 

Just letting you know since you said you didn't.

 

Well Josephine can allude to sex but only the player can do that by dialogue 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well Josephine can allude to sex but only the player can do that by dialogue 

I was talking about non-player input, since player choice is obviously optional. 

[TheRaccoon]

 

So the question is:  How can writers evoke the same emotion and feeling with a free-protagonist, as a set-protagonist?

 

 

Yes!! I think this is the really question!! People love to customise their own characters, headcanoning their backgorund etc. in BW games. This greatly hinders the writers in their abilities to deliver a more personal-level, touching storyline since every single feature of the protagonist can be altered (gender, class, race and even their beliefs).

[AresKeith]

I was talking about non-player input, since player choice is obviously optional. 

 

Ah ok

[In Exile]

Yes!! I think this is the really question!! People love to customise their own characters, headcanoning their backgorund etc. in BW games. This greatly hinders the writers in their abilities to deliver a more personal-level, touching storyline since every single feature of the protagonist can be altered (gender, class, race and even their beliefs).

 

The answer is pretty easily. The issue is that what people relate to as creating an emotional connection varies quite wildly. TW3 - while having Geralt pre-set in a lot of ways - only really does it with respect to gender/appearance and then (to some degree) personality/tone (but personality in the real sense - he's kind of repressed about his emotions and loves his dry witticism).