15882 réponses à ce sujet

[Spectre Impersonator]

@Spector Impersonator:  On that aspect - I'd recommend Shadowrun: Dragonfall.  That's a game where you can get through a huge amount of it without causing carnage if you take your time, you're smart and possess the right skills.  

 

I recall my body count being pretty significant in the Witcher 2... so, TW3 is very different from that then?  Cause I recall wading through whole castles of enemies by myself in the beginning of TW2.

 

Also... how DARE you disparage Galaga!!!  

No, you still kill a lot of people in The Witcher 3, but it is less mindless slaughter than any Dragon Age game. I feel the terribly detached combat of the entire DA franchise doesn't really lend itself to being immersed in the action, let alone the opponents. 

[Br3admax]

An rpg doesn't need to tell the player anything about the character you play. The whole point of an rpg is that the player should get to create as much about their own character as possible. 

 

No. That's the point of a table top and all rpgs that copy them. The point of an rpg is to roleplay inside a video game, hence the name roleplaying game. The system that works in games that don't require voice acting, and BioWare's model of game in the future obviously do, won't work here, as I've said before. The market for the type of rpg that can actually work without creating a character is niche at best. 

Personality, motivations, world-view, likes and dislikes. This only works to a certain degree in crpgs, of course. But when a game goes too far with fleshing out the character you are supposed to "create" the character is no longer a PC but an NPC you happen to have some control over.

Which is kind of the point as NPC means Non-Player Character and PC means Player Character not Non-Person-to-Customize and Person-to-Customize. 

[Hellion Rex]

@yawnandshrug:  I found characters like Cassandra to be far better than the high school triumverate of the jock(Alistair)/the goth(Morrigan)/and the cheerleader(Leliana).  I use those titles not to suggest you should like them or "my" idea of them is what you like... you clearly see them differently.  

 

I believe, overall, the interactions I had with the companions in DA:I were superior to much of what I've seen in cRPGs.   This is, of course, opinion.

 

On the more "factual" level we're in agreement - Bioware should stick with strong characters.  I believe this so deeply that I think that the next title should be centered far more around the companions than around any sort of big conflict.  

Meh, I think you're really oversimplfying Alistair and Morrigan, cause their characters are much more than that.

And I say that as someone who loves Cassandra to death. She's my favorite companion of all time, period.

[Rawgrim]

No, you still kill a lot of people in The Witcher 3, but it is less mindless slaughter than any Dragon Age game. I feel the terribly detached combat of the entire DA franchise doesn't really lend itself to being immersed in the action, let alone the opponents. 

 

You mean....no enemies rain down from the ceilling around you in The Witcher 3??? Whatever will I use the awesome-button for???

[Rawgrim]

 

No. That's the point of a table top and all rpgs that copy them. The point of an rpg is to roleplay inside a video game, hence the name roleplaying game. The system that works in games that don't require voice acting, and BioWare's model of game in the future obviously do, won't work here, as I've said before. The market for the type of rpg that can actually work without creating a character is niche at best. 

Which is kind of the point as NPC means Non-Player Character and PC means Player Character not Non-Person-to-Customize and Person-to-Customize. 

 

 

 

The whole genre is based on tabletop games, and modeled after them.

 

I wouldn't call Fallout, The Elder Scrolls, Dragon's Dogma + + + niche games, though. They are pretty big games (maybe not Dragon's Dogma). The rpgs that have voiced protagonists are actually a lot fewer than those who do.

 

When the player has little or no say in who his character is etc, the character is an NPC. The character isn't created by the player, and the player has very little control over him\her apart from physical movements.

[yawnandshrug]

Whatever will I use the awesome-button for???

 

You mean besides having sex on a stuffed unicorn?

[Rawgrim]

You mean besides having sex on a stuffed unicorn?

 

That is optional, I hear. Raining enemies wasn't.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Eluvianus Rex: It's just how I see them, not how anyone else should.  The qualities that resonate with other people for those characters - mostly repulse me.  Specifically Alistair... but also Morrigan.  That's a topic for somewhere else though. 

 

@Br3dmax:  I appreciate what you're saying, and I'd settle for a middle ground... but I won't ever play something like TW3 because that's not roleplaying to me.  I gave it a try with TW2 and got my answer. 

 

My preferences are not antiquated however - just because you don't agree with them.  Neverwinter Nights, with it's persistant worlds, I believe - is the future of the cRPG since it is what an RPG "actually" is... a group of people gathered for a dynamic story.  Single player RPGs are nice - I will always play them - but they're just "some other style of game using the title because of similar elements" for me. 

 

I look forward to Storm Coast Legends to move my style of roleplaying forward and I am praying it is well designed, does well, and spawns many styles like it.  (Toolset, DM Client, Co-OP Player)

 

@Specter Impersonator:  Fair enough and I actually totally agree with you when suggesting that "lives matter" is an important aspect.  Hence my suggestion for Shadowrun: Dragonfall.   You can skirt a whole lot of killing in that game... and it feels smart (vs. just "being the nice guy")

 

Also - every fight so far has felt like it was supposed to be there.  Not just more battle filler. 

 

@Rawgrim:  We don't agree on much - but, Fallout 4 was just announced!  So our niche style of play is still going strong.

 

But seriously - aren't we talking DA:I?  Wasn't the raining enemies DA:2?

[Torgette]

No, you still kill a lot of people in The Witcher 3, but it is less mindless slaughter than any Dragon Age game. I feel the terribly detached combat of the entire DA franchise doesn't really lend itself to being immersed in the action, let alone the opponents. 

 

I dunno, i've mindlessly slaughtered a metric truckload of dogs and monsters so far and i've only scratched the surface of TW3. I do agree the DA franchise has been a bit combat-heavy, DAO itself was very guilty of using combat to pad the game out.

[Iakus]

 

The difference is in DAI it was optional whereas in TW3 it is not. 

 

Very much this

[SofaJockey]

I'm kind of coming to the conclusion that you should play the games you enjoy

and don't play the ones you don't.

 

I've had so much fun with DAI, and am having so much fun with TW3.

Still to come: Tom Raider, Mad Max, Syndicate: 1868 :-) and of course Fallout 4. Good times.

 

I don't play a whole load of other games not on that list.

I also don't spend my time on their forums whining about them 

[Rawgrim]

@Eluvianus Rex: It's just how I see them, not how anyone else should.  The qualities that resonate with other people for those characters - mostly repulse me.  Specifically Alistair... but also Morrigan.  That's a topic for somewhere else though. 

 

@Br3dmax:  I appreciate what you're saying, and I'd settle for a middle ground... but I won't ever play something like TW3 because that's not roleplaying to me.  I gave it a try with TW2 and got my answer. 

 

My preferences are not antiquated however - just because you don't agree with them.  Neverwinter Nights, with it's persistant worlds, I believe - is the future of the cRPG since it is what an RPG "actually" is... a group of people gathered for a dynamic story.  Single player RPGs are nice - I will always play them - but they're just "some other style of game using the title because of similar elements" for me. 

 

I look forward to Storm Coast Legends to move my style of roleplaying forward and I am praying it is well designed, does well, and spawns many styles like it.  (Toolset, DM Client, Co-OP Player)

 

@Specter Impersonator:  Fair enough and I actually totally agree with you when suggesting that "lives matter" is an important aspect.  Hence my suggestion for Shadowrun: Dragonfall.   You can skirt a whole lot of killing in that game... and it feels smart (vs. just "being the nice guy")

 

@Rawgrim:  We don't agree on much - but, Fallout 4 was just announced!  So our niche style of play is still going strong.

 

Shroud of the Avatar, Tides up Numenera, Ultima Underworld 3, Bard's Tale 4, and plenty others are just around the corner too. I think you and I can look forward to some great years for rpgs at the moment. Ohh and 2 expansions to Baldur's Gate  is coming out soon. David Warner finished recording some voice work for Irenicus recently.

[Torgette]

I'm kind of coming to the conclusion that you should play the games you enjoy

and don't play the ones you don't.

 

I've had so much fun with DAI, and am having so much fun with TW3.

Still to come: Tom Raider, Mad Max, Syndicate: 1868 :-) and of course Fallout 4. Good times.

 

I don't play a whole load of other games not on that list.

I also don't spend my time on their forums whining about them 

 

Indeed, I'm also finishing up Far Cry 4 atm but i'm not thinking "the witcher 3 sucks because it doesn't have emergent gameplay!". I mean really, don't let yourself get in the way of having fun!

[Dreadstruck]

I'm kind of coming to the conclusion that you should play the games you enjoy

and don't play the ones you don't.

 

I've had so much fun with DAI, and am having so much fun with TW3.

Still to come: Tom Raider, Mad Max, Syndicate: 1868 :-) and of course Fallout 4. Good times.

 

I don't play a whole load of other games not on that list.

I also don't spend my time on their forums whining about them 

 

As they say, why limit yourself, right?

[midnight tea]

I dunno, i've mindlessly slaughtered a metric truckload of dogs and monsters so far and i've only scratched the surface of TW3. I do agree the DA franchise has been a bit combat-heavy, DAO itself was very guilty of using combat to pad the game out.

 

And I've killed my share of bandits and deserters in TW3... quite a few of them in fact. So I'm surprised that there are claims that there's less mindless slaughter.

[Hazegurl]

I don't doubt that, but I think Ander's reaction was also responsible for a good deal of the fan griping.

 

I say that because I don't remember as much complaining about Zevran, who is much more aggressive. Although with Zevran you did get a few hilarious complaints that people's Wardens accidentally slept with him. I mean how is that even possible? Its like accidentally sleeping with Morrigan. It couldn't be any more obvious.

Yeah, I think people wanted to turn him down and still keep friendship points. Which is stupid and one of the reasons I think BW should hide approval and disapproval points. 

 

lol!! I can't believe people "accidentally" slept with Zev.  It's not like he has a romance bug. 

[yawnandshrug]

That is optional, I hear. Raining enemies wasn't.

 

What do you mean having sex on a unicorn is not a mandatory experience

[Rawgrim]

I think it takes a whole string of accidents to actually manage to sleep with Zevran by mistake.

[Rawgrim]

What do you mean having sex on a unicorn is not a mandatory experience

 

Good point.

 

I liked the irony of that bit though. Unicorns being known to only speak to virgins etc.

[untuvainen]

I do love the massive beastiary of this game. It's so varied and interesting. Learning their backstories, weaknesses etc. is fun (to me).

[Saphiron123]

To repeat for the third time, with regards to Dorian's quest, an alternative view does not necessarily mean a homophobic stance, you can choose to be neutral, choose to walk away, argue that it's not a matter of gender but duty etc etc there are dozens of ways one can react but the game restricts us to one. I think there's a very clear difference between Anders hitting on you and you being allowed to respond to that and having your response explicitly defined as in the case of Dorian's quest, so I'm not quite sure why you're using that as a counterargument.

And actually yes, back in the DAO days there was a measure of criticism of the mage tower quest line because it was built in a manner that was so obviously skewed towards the mages and I'm sure there are more examples other people can name.

And yet, I purged them all last game because the threat of abominations was too great to ignore.

Of course mages in origins weren't a huge joke like they are now, and Templars actually made sense .

DAI doesn't give you options like that. Your inquisitor can be kind about something, or he can be snarky. He rarely gets to make a real choice about anything.

[Saphiron123]

[quote name="SofaJockey" post="19223627" timestamp="1433352788"]

I'm kind of coming to the conclusion that you should play the games you enjoy
and don't play the ones you don't.

I've had so much fun with DAI, and am having so much fun with TW3.
Still to come: Tom Raider, Mad Max, Syndicate: 1868 :-) and of course Fallout 4. Good times.

I don't play a whole load of other games not on that list.
I also don't spend my time on their forums whining about them [/quote

Well that's the thing, a lot of people here truly love dragon age... Inquisition just fell short of what they expected and hoped for.

[midnight tea]

I do love the massive beastiary of this game. It's so varied and interesting. Learning their backstories, weaknesses etc. is fun (to me).

 

It would be strange for a game that features professional beast hunter to NOT have numerous and varied beasts to hunt

 

What I also like is that - aside from the fact that a lot of plot points and bestiary is sort of generic European fantasy thing - people also learn quite a lot about Eastern European folklore.

 

A lot of these monsters, beasts and spirits are actually taken straight from local myths and old superstitions - noonwraiths, goodlings, Bloody Baron's unborn child turning into a demon if buried improperly and turned into spirits if rites are done. Local to the boot.

 

The Fyke Island storyline? Based entirely on old Polish legend (about the king and his family being eaten by rodents). And so on and so forth.

[Br3admax]

@Br3dmax:  I appreciate what you're saying, and I'd settle for a middle ground... but I won't ever play something like TW3 because that's not roleplaying to me.  I gave it a try with TW2 and got my answer. 

Stagnation. 

The whole genre is based on tabletop games, and modeled after them.

 

I wouldn't call Fallout, The Elder Scrolls, Dragon's Dogma + + + niche games, though. They are pretty big games (maybe not Dragon's Dogma). The rpgs that have voiced protagonists are actually a lot fewer than those who do.

 

When the player has little or no say in who his character is etc, the character is an NPC. The character isn't created by the player, and the player has very little control over him\her apart from physical movements.

And stagnation. Fallout was based in the same era I was talking about and 3/NV/ES aren't character driven rpgs. DA is. The genre has to adapt and change to the market it's in. And no, not being able to determine every single thing about your PC does not make it them a PC. Why is Dragon's Dogma even on this list? The Arisen has a character, even if it's in the most basic of forms, that is set in stone and that you literally have no control over. And the idea that a set character in beginning must mean that you have no control over said character makes me think you're either plugging your ears and ignoring massive potential for character growth and change that you can tailor, à la the Witcher(something people who've actually played it and tried to play it would know), or you have no idea what character growth actually is. I think it's the former, but hey you never know. 

[SofaJockey]

Well that's the thing, a lot of people here truly love dragon age... Inquisition just fell short of what they expected and hoped for.

 

I think this sentiment embraces a misunderstanding.

Dragon Age = Inquisition.

Frostbite 3 the regional open world, and other mechanics is the template going forward based on its huge success.

 

To obsess about Dragon Age being more like past instalments makes no more sense than grumbling that Fallout 3 and/or 4 are not like Fallout 1 and 2.

 

The Warden isn't coming back.

Open world regions are here to stay.

A host of old healing, attribute and other mechanics are history. 

 

If Inquisition is truly a 'broken' game to some folk, well I respect that view, but they should move on to games they like

(good luck with that).