15883 réponses à ce sujet

[SnakeCode]

Burton didn't direct Nightmare though; he was only the producer.  The director title for that movie belongs to Henry Selick, who also did Coraline and James and the Giant Peach.  Shane Acker directed 9, and Burton was a producer.  Burton hasn't been the helm of as many movies as you might think.  

 

That's true. I kind of feel sorry for Henry Selick, The Nightmare Before Christmas is often considered to be Burton's best film, and it isn't even one of the films he directed, meanwhile Selick gets no credit. 

[Grieving Natashina]

That's true. I kind of feel sorry for Henry Selick, The Nightmare Before Christmas is often considered to be Burton's best film, and it isn't even one of the films he directed, meanwhile Selick gets no credit. 

Yep.  I remember when they didn't throw Tim Burton's name everywhere when the movie first came out.  However, when marketing execs realized they could make more money by adding "From the director of Batman and Edward Scissorhands" to the box, they never looked back.

[Nefla]

While I'll agree that any reduction in options would be bad, a voice I don't like (or even just one voice option) would ruin the game for me, so I take considerable solace in the knowledge that I can probably fix what could potentially be a catastrophic design choice.
I don't need NPC dialogue to be voiced, either.
That's a choice you made when you elected for a closed platform. Playing on console grants tacit approval to all of the devs' design choices.
I would object to that. Since I only tolerate one of those two designs, I want my preference for a blank slate protagonist supported in all games. I am wholly indifferent to the extent to which fixed protagonists are supported.

I really hate the attitude of "mods are the solution to everything, we can all pack up and go home guys!" How about game companies do a better job so their games don't need to be fixed by fans? Any mods you're thinking of to "fix" a voiced protagonist would involve either A) turning on subtitles and awkwardly muting the protagonist but they'd still be silently mouthing the words that were said in the official version and changing nothing else or Muting all of the protagonist's lines, removing the parts of scenes where the protagonist talks as well as all lip synching, writing hundreds of additional lines, then writing hundreds of additional responses by NPCs (which would of course be only text while their official responses are voiced) adding all of that to the existing game to appear in the correct conversation with the correct corresponding NPC response, the correct actions taken in response (start a fight, run away, agree to do something, etc...). "A" might have a chance of happening and if that's enough to satisfy you then...congrats (though you could more easily press mute for those scenes yourself) But "B"? No one is going to spend that kind of effort and basically rework the entire game because a few people don't like voice acting.

 

Anyway, this whole conversation is irrelevant. A voiced protagonist isn't something BioWare would be learning from TW3, it's something they've already been doing since ME1.  

[Sylvius the Mad]

I really hate the attitude of "mods are the solution to everything, we can all pack up and go home guys!" How about game companies do a better job so their games don't need to be fixed by fans?

Not all players want the same thing. If you want a voice implemented differently from how I want it implemented, the only way to serve us both is with mods. The devs aren't going to put a toggle on everything, but that's essentially what mods offer.

Any mods you're thinking of to "fix" a voiced protagonist would involve either A) turning on subtitles and awkwardly muting the protagonist but they'd still be silently mouthing the words that were said in the official version and changing nothing else

That's the solution I would choose. I think it would have worked quite well in DAI.

[In Exile]

That's the solution I would choose. I think it would have worked quite well in DAI.

 

While my feelings on VO are well known, why would silent lip moving be worse than blank statuesque stare? (Not that I am suggesting this is your position; just posing the question.) It seems to me that people should be indifferent between silent lips. The Inquisitor did not have any more notable body language than the Warden in this regard. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

While my feelings on VO are well known, why would silent lip moving be worse than blank statuesque stare? (Not that I am suggesting this is your position; just posing the question.) It seems to me that people should be indifferent between silent lips. The Inquisitor did not have any more notable body language than the Warden in this regard.

That's my thinking. Silent is silent; what the lips do is irrelevant.

[In Exile]

That's my thinking. Silent is silent; what the lips do is irrelevant.

Yes. Body language would be a valid distinction because one might want to headcanon it. Putting aside whether I think it can be done meaningfully it is a demarcating difference.

[o Ventus]

While my feelings on VO are well known, why would silent lip moving be worse than blank statuesque stare? 

 

I would say it's because having the protagonist move their mouths and forming words in total silence would be completely off-putting and idiotic.

[In Exile]

I would say it's because having the protagonist move their mouths and forming words in total silence would be completely off-putting and idiotic.

Less off-putting than Robo-Protagonist? I don't see it. It's a big YMMV. Standing dumbstruck at the concept of talking is pretty idiotic too yet no one really complains when favouring silent PC.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Yes. Body language would be a valid distinction because one might want to headcanon it. Putting aside whether I think it can be done meaningfully it is a demarcating difference.

I basically do headcanon body language (to the extent that I think about it at all), because I often don't watch the cinematics. I just read the subtitles, and sometimes listen.

The relevant meaning is in thr text.

[o Ventus]

Less off-putting than Robo-Protagonist?

 

Very much so, yes.

 

I don't see it.

 

Look harder then.

 

Standing dumbstruck at the concept of talking is pretty idiotic too yet no one really complains when favouring silent PC.

 

At least when the PC is standing there motionless, one can project visual emotes and tone into their words. When the PC is moving his face but not saying anything, you both lose that liberty and it makes the PC look handicapped in the head for not being able to vocalize. 

[Torgette]

Clearly the ultimate solution to some of you guys' wishes regarding PC roleplaying would be a kinect that reads your actual body language, body temperature and dialogue that you have to come up with and speak yourself. Maybe in 20 years that will be a thing.

[Elhanan]

Clearly the ultimate solution to some of you guys' wishes regarding PC roleplaying would be a kinect that reads your actual body language, body temperature and dialogue that you have to come up with and speak yourself. Maybe in 20 years that will be a thing.

Not for those that already dislike having to see their characters react at the same speed as the Player. SWTOR may be the only game without Pause I was able to play, and actually looked forward to the areas with cut-scenes and solo play focus for a needed rest.

Also, SWTOR offered dialogue paths that allowed for Player choice rather than the extreme Paragon/ Renegade selections. DAI is a lot like this, as one Player determines their own priorities; not some mechanical benefit of one extreme choice or another.

[Ennai and 54 others]

One aspect that shouldn't be copied is the sue-ness of Ciri(just don't have a character like Ciri).In one of the endings she:

Spoiler

returns to Nilfgard and prepares to become empress.The narrator tells us that she has "inherited the political instincts of her father and ,from Geralt,a sense of common human decency.Two traits that monarchs rarely have both of".

At this point I was thinking

1:How does one inherit political instincts.Political senses must be earned through pain and toil,like witcher senses.They are not inherited!

2:This was a missed opportunity.Ciri could have been a horrible princess who was too idealistic and stubborn (Like Daenerys),she could have worsened her fathers political situation,eventually causing a series of assassination attempts that lead her to dissappear to another dimension and let her fathers dynasty crumble.Alternatively should could have been changed by her new environment,dying her hair black and becoming a full renegade who does some very questionable things to keep control.

The epilogue could have shown us the bad side of Ciri which would have been so carefully hidden away(like Harrowmonts weakness) that it would have come as a surprise.Instead she has all the necessary traits neatly written into her genes,where as everyone else has to work from scratch to become who they are.

[KBomb]

I would say it's because having the protagonist move their mouths and forming words in total silence would be completely off-putting and idiotic.

Not so off-putting and idiotic. It's how I communicate every day of my life. I know sign language, but don't like using it. I mainly communicate by reading someone's lips and watching their body language and facial expression.

I prefer voiced protagonist. Even with my hearing aid, they sound muffled and I can't really understand them, but it feels natural for me to see their mouths move and their face show expression. The blank stare and silent mouth of the warden felt completely fake and unnatural to me.

[TheOgre]

One aspect that shouldn't be copied is the sue-ness of Ciri(just don't have a character like Ciri).In one of the endings she:

Spoiler

returns to Nilfgard and prepares to become empress.The narrator tells us that she has "inherited the political instincts of her father and ,from Geralt,a sense of common human decency.Two traits that monarchs rarely have both of".

At this point I was thinking

1:How does one inherit political instincts.Political senses must be earned through pain and toil,like witcher senses.They are not inherited!

2:This was a missed opportunity.Ciri could have been a horrible princess who was too idealistic and stubborn (Like Daenerys),she could have worsened her fathers political situation,eventually causing a series of assassination attempts that lead her to dissappear to another dimension and let her fathers dynasty crumble.Alternatively should could have been changed by her new environment,dying her hair black and becoming a full renegade who does some very questionable things to keep control.

The epilogue could have shown us the bad side of Ciri which would have been so carefully hidden away(like Harrowmonts weakness) that it would have come as a surprise.Instead she has all the necessary traits neatly written into her genes,where as everyone else has to work from scratch to become who they are.

 

I would have loved some character flaw with Ciri honestly. Yeah, too sue for my tastes.

[Andreas Amell]

This game sounds a lot better in Polish.

[TheOgre]

This game sounds a lot better in Polish.

You know what?

I will try the Polish.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

This game sounds a lot better in Polish.

 

Maybe, but the Polish version lacks Charles Dance. 

[Andreas Amell]

Yeah, but the overall feel of the game fits better in Polish. I can't get the idea of Dirty Harry's voice out of my head when I watch it in English.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Actually, something more devs really ought to do: fix exploits in entertaining ways rather than just patch up the hole. 

 

Like how CDPR just 'fixed' the exploit where you can infinitely farm loot from infinitely respawning cows in the most recent patch. 

 

 

...well played. 

[midnight tea]

Actually, something more devs really ought to do: fix exploits in entertaining ways rather than just patch up the hole. 

 

Like how CDPR just 'fixed' the exploit where you can infinitely farm loot from infinitely respawning cows in the most recent patch. 

 

 

...well played. 

 

That I applaud

[Saphiron123]

Actually, something more devs really ought to do: fix exploits in entertaining ways rather than just patch up the hole. 

 

Like how CDPR just 'fixed' the exploit where you can infinitely farm loot from infinitely respawning cows in the most recent patch. 

 

 

...well played. 

Is... is that a giant cow monster?

[Nefla]

I think an ideal solution to the creepy awkward silent lip flapping and creepy awkward blank stare would be to just have the camera in first person perspective during conversations for silent protagonists.

 

As far as TW3's Ciri, while she was a Mary-Sue, she's exactly the same as a protagonist in any random RPG, we're just not the ones playing her and I actually thought that was a fun and refreshing idea. I'm tired of games where I'm the super special mystical chosen one of prophesy. I'd rather play a normal person overcoming obstacles through skill, determination, and a bit of luck and have the things my character goes through be reasonable and something that any random person might be able to do through the right circumstances. If there's a super special chosen one to be had, I don't want it to be me. For instance I would have liked DA:I much better if there was no special magical hand and if Cassandra was the leader of the inquisition, with the player being in more of a support role. (we never actually got to make any political or command decisions anyway)

[In Exile]

I'd probably have had far less interest in DAI if it was just about the opportunity to polish Cassandra's boots. While Ciri is the chosen one in TW3 Geralt is very much the active protagonist. It's his story. That same model doesn't work in a hypothetical DAI where Cassandra is clearly the protagonist.

You can't have an RPG without a hypercompetent murder machine. A mook just can't be an RPG protagonist.