15896 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

*Cassandra blushes*

[Hazegurl]

 

DAI is the game that posses the greatest number of non mandatory characters that i have ever played.

This clearly reduce the possibility of a meaningful story,because those characters are reduced to alternate each other in the same role,there is no possibility for the developers to enrich their story,they cannot waste resources on characters that may not even exist.

Often comes to my mind the thought that DAI was intended to be a sort of receptacle of the decisions of the previous two titles rather than a game with a meaningful story.

 

 

Oh yes! I cared very little for most of the companions in DAI. BW could have helped that by either reducing the number of companions or giving us a personal  mandatory character.  Like a sibling or something.  Or they could have had the chosen LI placed in some sort of danger. Perhaps even kill off one of the mandatory characters like Cassandra or Varric or one of the romancable advisers.  At least those who romanced Cass, Cullen, or Josie would have had a deeper story and a reason to want Cory dead on a more personal level.  IDK, anything would have been nice.  

 

What I never quite understood about DAI is that for a game with so many optional characters, you never had the power to "trim the fat" by kicking them whenever you feel like it(except Sera). It's like BW demanded that you finish their optional content.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I think the Corypheus fight - the actual battle - was visually impressive and as meaninglessly underwhelming as ever single Bioware fight ever done. The issue with the ending isn't the boss battle, which is more or less like all other boss battle in Bioware games.

The issue is that the ending is crazy abrupt. The other Bioware games have a lot of build up. ME1 has the race through the Conduit, building tension, to the run through the Citadel (outside, in Space™!), to the Saren showdown. ME2 has the suicide mission, which is still (IMO) the greatest end sequence in a Bioware game ever. Even ME3's run through Earth is a solid mission, with the issue (again, IMO) being the game turning into an anti-climatic troll sequence you when you get blasted by Harbinger.

DA has the same approach - DA:O gives you the run through Denerim, which is a great sequence despite the very underwhelming (IMO) AD fight, and DA2 gives you the rush through Kirkwall.

With Corypheus, you're just plopped into the boss battle. That sequence could only have worked if:

(1) Re-opening the breach again send out hordes of demons, like Wrath of Heaven, but this time even worse.
(2) You had to race to the breach while the world was being torn to shreds as the breach expanded, raising tension. Ideally you'd have to have suicide mission like mechanics, explaining why most of your squad isn't with you at the final showdown.
(3) You finally reached Corypheus.

I like the ending of DAI. Corypheus is unprepared to face you, because his villainous arrogance never considered the possibility that he would have to.

Whereas, ME ends with a long linear sequence capped by a gimmicky and uninterested fight with Saren. ME2 has great atmosphere at the end, and its linear slog at least involves some team-based decisions, but then the absurd boss fight undercut the entire thing. If not for the boss fight, I would agree that ME2's ending was good.

[ashwind]

In my opinion, BE is a patch, not a DLC, JoH is DLC, not an "expansion", and nothing as of yet actually qualifies as an "expansion". Might explain our differences in opinion.

 

To be fair, if Alternate look for Yennefer is classified as DLC, BE classifies as DLC as well. Both free.

 

JoH is a DLC, a paid DLC.

 

I agree that Expansions should be something like Awaken.

 

DAI does have free DLC... all the multi-player DLCs are "free" (a micro-transaction bait imo) but free DLC....

[ashwind]

I think you didn't quite get the 'without inside info' and 'empty speculation' part.

Ah well, reading is hard...

 

"Without inside info and empty speculation" to someone who has no idea about software development procedures like yourself maybe.

 

Just because you have zero idea about software development, it does not mean the rest of us are like you.

 

Your claim of others speaking "Without inside info and empty speculation" IS empty speculation.

[Torgette]

I actually like TW2's main story more too but I still think TW3's approach is better than DA:I

I mean sure DA:I had some good and epic main missions (Warden questline for an example) but they were way too rare

The main story was incredibly short and unsatisfying, the main part of the game was basically doing annoying fetch quests and "exploring"

And after some time there was a story mission and then rinse and repeat

 

So I will take TW3's long main story which isn't full of twists and epic things happening but still has good quality throughout over something like that

 

CDPR did the best given the open world structure of the game but obviously the story would have been better if it was linear

Still the open world and side quests are superb and thats the main point of the game so I say they succeeded (where DA:I failed hard)

 

I still enjoyed some of DAI's main quest content, but I agree it wasn't satisfying and too short. I do think there was plenty of side content worth reading - in many ways actually more interesting than the main quest itself, but they lacked cutscenes and a quest structure conducive to storytelling. I do think the game designers had the right idea with having you go to a zone and "do things" that somehow had something to do with setting up the main mission... but it doesn't feel like they fleshed stuff out or they got carried away with the wrong things, ie: Emerald Graves should've weaved into Briala and Emprise Du Lion should've weaved into Gaspard instead of just being random zones with random side content to get power or kill some dragons. Even when they did weave things like Western Approach, you don't get the idea at all that you're setting things up for an army to storm through, and the one time you deal with the wardens felt tacked on. So yeah they totally dropped the ball with quest structure and open world design.

[Nefla]

The power demands are trivial, though. You can get virtually everything you need just doing companion quests, setting up camps and maybe closing 1-2 rifts per zone.

Too bad you need to either grind fetch quests/menial tasks to increase companion affection enough to actually get their companion quest OR have nearly beaten the game and made only choices that the companion in question approves of (in which case you would have already been grinding power the whole time). People that don't mind running around doing these tasks have no problem with them, to me almost every single one was a mind numbing chore. I don't want to close 15 rifts or pitch 20 tents or fetch 30 goats or gather herbs for 40 people. It seems to me that the only reason they implemented this syetem was to pad out playtimes and disguise a very short main story.

 

To be fair - a really well dressed fetch quest is still a fetch quest, your brain is just thinking "well to get to the reward I had 2 extra layers of stuff in the way" - whether you can appreciate those layers for what they are or are annoyed by the quest itself depends on each person.

I definitely appreciate any quest that actually has an interesting story, characters, and choices. I would never think "ew lets get rid of this boring extra stuff so I can quickly just go run somewhere and pick up a ring off the ground." I feel like...why play an RPG if you don't want story? My brain isn't thinking "lets just get this out of the way so I can get the reward." I'm still doing sidequests in TW3 that are 20 levels lower than me because they're interesting, I couldn't care less about the reward. 

 

 

depends on what you consider a fetch quest. 

if a quest has branches, multiple outcomes and levels of completion it's not a fetch quest. bonus for affecting the world.

 

can majority of TW3 side quests can be resolved in more than one way? can i complete those quests without fighting as well as hacking my way through it?

Agreed. For me I consider a "fetch quest" to be a barebones task with little to no reason for me to be doing it, no choice, no unique mechanics, just go grab something and bring it back.

 

well then most quests in RPG's are fetch quests

Its not about that

TW3's quests are also often hunt that monster, kill him etc. but most of them have a story with interesting characters and also choices to make

Bioware was just shameless with theirs in DA:I, DA:O + DA2 also had some and it never bothered me but when 70% of the game consists of lame fetch quests its just too much

Exactly, everything can be boiled down to a very simple mechanic but it's how they dress it up that's important. You can either have a literal "go here get this (goat/druffalo/supplies/ring/etc...)" like DA:I did where you're lucky if you even have an NPC with one line of dialogue initiate the quest rather than a scrap of paper you find on the ground or you have something interesting with a story, characters, and usually a choice. TW3 made me want to do every quest by making them interesting, DA:I forced me to do a huge number of tasks because there were power requirements.

 

Sorry mate, I'm just saying what I feel, and I'm also not strictly comparing it DA:I, but Bioware games in general.  I've only done one DA:I playthrough and I guess the acquiring the power points felt less terrible because I was simply exploring, while in the mindset of "I'm Inquisitor, I must do these things to help people and give my organization a good name". I'm sure if I played again i'll be crying as many tears as you are.

Aside from that, I guess what I liked is when I was ready for a major mission in a BW game, I knew everything I was going to do revolves around some major event, and not so much helping a chain of people. In TW3, I'm at the part of letting the thing possess the horse. I stopped playing because I got annoyed at having to do a thing for Johnny, another thing for the Crones, and now I have to gather things for the demon (but thanks to your insinuation I guess I'll just kill it) and thats all after doing a million things helping other people, like getting the goat and whatever, just to help the idiot baron, and for some reason I just don't care/am not emotionally invested.

 

Clearly I'd make a terrible Witcher in real life. I'd just give everyone the finger and retire somewhere tropical.
 

For me there was no reason to explore in DA:I because there was nothing to find other than scenery. I need something really interesting to do or NPCs to talk to at length or at least some really strong and cool looking unique gear. The power point system is garbage and adds nothing to the game. They didn't even try to dress it up to make sense. Why can I not go to the town square in Val Royeaux unless I stuff some herbs in a tree, bring back a lost druffalo, pitch a tent, and collect 3 bear claws? If there had been no power requirements then DA:I would have been short and disappointing to me, but it wouldn't make me want to pull my hair out.

 

The reason I didn't mind doing favors for people in TW3 is because those favors were interesting.

 

PS, if you don't like the Baron I suggest you DO help the tree demon...

[Zatche]

Oh yes! I cared very little for most of the companions in DAI. BW could have helped that by either reducing the number of companions or giving us a personal mandatory character. Like a sibling or something. Or they could have had the chosen LI placed in some sort of danger. Perhaps even kill off one of the mandatory characters like Cassandra or Varric or one of the romancable advisers. At least those who romanced Cass, Cullen, or Josie would have had a deeper story and a reason to want Cory dead on a more personal level. IDK, anything would have been nice.

While I enjoyed the DAI companions, they, I do agree that there was this disconnect between them and the main narrative that kept the story from being greater than the sum of its parts.

DA2 had companion quests for each act and gave most characters a stake and/or a limelight during each of the final quests for each act.

ME2 followed this Dirty Dozen idea, gave each companion a long recruitment and personal missions, and tied it all together with the dramatic suicide mission, where every character could take part and just about anyone could die.

ME3 put most of the companions and former companions in a big spotlight for the major main and sidequests, which led to some pretty dramatic moments, Mordin and Wrex on Tuchanka, Legion and Tali on Rannoch, Grunt almost dying, Thane and Ashley or Kaidan in the Citadel.

DAI, on the other hand, generally had smaller companion quests (I really liked Bull's but wish there was more build up and dramatic tension). And as the plot moved into the later stages, it seemed to move farther away from the companions, so they just felt like an add-ons. Other than Solas and Morrigan, none of the companions got a limelight during the last few main missions.

[Torgette]

I definitely appreciate any quest that actually has an interesting story, characters, and choices. I would never think "ew lets get rid of this boring extra stuff so I can quickly just go run somewhere and pick up a ring off the ground." I feel like...why play an RPG if you don't want story? My brain isn't thinking "lets just get this out of the way so I can get the reward." I'm still doing sidequests in TW3 that are 20 levels lower than me because they're interesting, I couldn't care less about the reward. 

 

You would be surprised how many people actually do feel this way about games in general, even if they know it's got a lot of story bits. Even i'm guilty of skipping dialogue in some side quests if i'm tired or impatient in past games, though it's rare.

[Traele]

Tightening up the story and gameplay mechanics before releasing the game.  Write one or more less companion if you need to.  In fact I'd prefer less companions that have more to them.  Steal CDPR's engine if necessary to get the facial expressions the Witcher characters are capable of.  More learning about the characters through doing as opposed to exposition from the character (though ME2 was good in this regard) -- hunting down Dandelion's datebook informed me more about who he was than five minutes of exposition.  Remember that story and game structure are not only vital to telling the story, but need as much or more polish than your character work.

 

Get the passion back to put out a fully realized story and product ala ME2.  Lose your 'artisitic integrity' if that's what it takes to make a good game.

[Nefla]

You would be surprised how many people actually do feel this way about games in general, even if they know it's got a lot of story bits. Even i'm guilty of skipping dialogue in some side quests if i'm tired or impatient in past games, though it's rare.

I remember there were several times in TW3 where someone was going to tell you about something and you could say either "give me the long version" or  "give me the short version" and I was like "short version, screw that! I want to know every detail!" every single time

[KBomb]

Saw The Spoils of War dlc for Inquisition today. You get five more mounts, a few customization options for Skyhold, two armors with schematics( that you pick up as loot only) and it cost $5.00. I wonder why they didn't include that stuff in JoH, since it's all Avvar stuff?

Already for free with TW3 you get Yen's new look, more beards and hairstyles, two armor sets, a new mission, and an elite crossbow set and ten more items yet to come.

People are still talking as if those 16 free dlc are nothing but gimmick and whatever-- yet I wonder how much EA would have bundled and sold them for? I'll take gimmick any day over paying. They can gimmick me all day long.

[AresKeith]

Saw The Spoils of War dlc for Inquisition today. You get five more mounts, a few customization options for Skyhold, two armors with schematics( that you pick up as loot only) and it cost $5.00. I wonder why they didn't include that stuff in JoH, since it's all Avvar stuff?

Already for free with TW3 you get Yen's new look, more beards and hairstyles, two armor sets, a new mission, and an elite crossbow set and ten more items yet to come.

People are still talking as if those 16 free dlc are nothing but gimmick and whatever-- yet I wonder how much EA would have bundled and sold them for? I'll take gimmick any day over paying. They can gimmick me all day long.

 

I heard it was $3, and I'm guessing that didn't include it because of the whole exclusive deal or EA just wanted to sell more stuff

[Akrabra]

Yeah I don't think there's a single element of DAI that surpasses what TW3 offers. And I paid almost £20 MORE for DAI than I did for TW3. And I am getting 16 pieces of DLC absolutely FREE with TW3.

You are aware that these 16 dlcs they are releasing is actually on disc items? They were done when the game was done. So they release them after to promote good will and trick people into thinking that this company is different. Yes it is nice for pacing and keeping people interested, but don't treat that dlc deal like it is a god send. Anyway you have an insanely hostile attitude, isn't this about giving suggestions to how some elements in The Witcher 3 can better future Dragon Age projects?

[midnight tea]

I was thinking about Vlad the Impaler and like Elizabeth Bathory and stuff, as twisted as The Witcher can be it never really seems to be quite as megacrazy as all those things. I watched some specials on them a long time ago, that's basically the extent of my knowledge, unless you count Hostel part 2, which I'm guessing is probably not a a good source to use.

 

I... uh, what?

 

Central and Eastern European countries have experienced their share of bad things, especially in fairly recent history, but our lands are hardly populated with just Vlads Impalers and Elisabeths of Bathory.

 

Actually, Stefan Bathory - an UNCLE of Elizabeth (whose murderous spree has been largely exaggerated) and Prince of Transylvania (I kid you not) before his election, is considered one of the best kings we had, and certainly not because he was a bloodthirsty monster....

 

In fact, compared to what was happening at that time in Europe, Poland was a safe haven for many repressed minorities. I'm not going to sit here and claim that it was anything on the level of acceptance we have today - far from it - but relatively speaking, for quite some time Poland was a bastion of tolerance (http://en.wikipedia....w_Confederation) and a melting pot of cultures and various ethnicities. The testament to that is a near 1000 years old relationship with Jews and - believe it or not - most of it was actually friendly. They had special privileges and protection here, guaranteed by our rulers. In fact, their own religious and cultural center grew along our religious and cultural center (Kazimierz near Krakow).

 

 

So no - not all that happened here was twisted and brutal and monstrous. It's completely unfair to paint history of our lands as such. Invasions, numerous partitions and World Wars (especially WWII) may have made local people perhaps somewhat more disillusioned and cynical, but at the same time one of more prominent "national traits" many people here still exhibit is unabashed ROMANTICISM.

 

 

Also... Hostel is an AMERICAN movie. It was set in Slovakia, but it's entirely FICTION. It wasn't based on anything that happened here or was rumored to happen in these parts.... though I suppose it should be expected that some think that way. Ever since Bram Stoker wrote "Dracula" it seems that quite a few people from Western countries like to think of Eastern/Central Europe as some sort of half-exotic, half-magical land where a lot of dark things happen :/

 

.... And now I'm getting worried that Witcher games will only strengthen that image *sigh*

[Aren]

I like the ending of DAI. Corypheus is unprepared to face you, because his villainous arrogance never considered the possibility that he would have to.
 

I'm not quite sure  about this.

I mean we can use the "Corypheus self arrogance" argument,to try to explain the lame ending that we get in DAI.

However even the stupidest villain of this world need to be defeated after some struggle,Corypheus after he lost the knowledge of the Well, willingly decide to go to his suicide knowing the full potential of the anchor that he have crafted for no reason whatsoever other than "self arrogance?"

The ending is simply rushed,it's like the developers were 

 out of budget or time constraints,and they needed to find the quickest way to get rid of him.

[AlanC9]

You are aware that these 16 dlcs they are releasing is actually on disc items? They were done when the game was done. So they release them after to promote good will and trick people into thinking that this company is different. Yes it is nice for pacing and keeping people interested, but don't treat that dlc deal like it is a god send. Anyway you have an insanely hostile attitude, isn't this about giving suggestions to how some elements in The Witcher 3 can better future Dragon Age projects?

I'll say the same thing about free DLC that I say about paid DLC. It diesn't matter where it is. If it can go on the disc, then they might as well do that rather than waste everyone's bandwidth for no reason.

This is not an objection to your general point.

[midnight tea]

 

I'm not quite sure  about this.

I mean we can use the "Corypheus self arrogance" argument,to try to explain the lame ending that we get in DAI.

However even the stupidest villain of this world need to be defeated after some struggle,Corypheus after he lost the knowledge of the Well, willingly decide to go to his suicide knowing the full potential of the anchor that he have crafted for no reason whatsoever other than "self arrogance?"

The ending is simply rushed,it's like the developers were 

 out of budget or time constraints,and they needed to find the quickest way to get rid of him.

 

 

No reason whatsoever? So ripping the Veil where it as the weakest and having a good shot of destroying everything (while Inquisition is unprepared for it, mind you) wasn't a good enough reason?

[KBomb]

I heard it was $3, and I'm guessing that didn't include it because of the whole exclusive deal or EA just wanted to sell more stuff

It's $4.99 in Xbox One marketplace.

 

 

You are aware that these 16 dlcs they are releasing is actually on disc items? They were done when the game was done. So they release them after to promote good will and trick people into thinking that this company is different. Yes it is nice for pacing and keeping people interested, but don't treat that dlc deal like it is a god send. Anyway you have an insanely hostile attitude, isn't this about giving suggestions to how some elements in The Witcher 3 can better future Dragon Age projects?

Are you serious? You do know that the same sentiment can be said for all weapon and armor packs and the new Avvar "stuff" pack? It should have been included in JoH, but it wasn't. 

 

Let's say it's true. I don't understand this attitude:

 

They cut content from the main game or DLC in order to piecemeal it out as paid dlc. That's A-okay. 

 

They cut content from the main game or DLC in order to give it to you free of charge throughout the first couple of months of the game's release. The masses yell, deceivers! 

 

I'd rather have something free and be tricked into thinking it's a good deal, than to pay out money and be tricked into thinking it's a good deal. Any.day.of.the.week.

[AresKeith]

I'd rather have something free and be tricked into thinking it's a good deal, than to pay out money and be tricked into thinking it's a good deal. Any.day.of.the.week.

 

I feel that I need to comment of this because I honestly do feel that the latter is partly the reason the price of the games haven't been raised 

[KBomb]

I feel that I need to comment of this because I honestly do feel that the latter is partly the reason the price of the games haven't been raised

Oh, don't get me wrong. I am not saying all dlc should be free and if it's a really good dlc I don't mind dropping coin on it.

My issue is the reasoning people use to discredit the free dlc deal, yet will happily lay out money for the same general things from other companies.

And in this case, I didn't pay extra for TW3. You get those 16 dlc whether you buy the regular edition or the collector edition.

A lot of dlc is planned in conjunction with the main game and sometimes is executed during or very shortly after the main game's release. It was still planned as dlc regardless of the time frame. So even if all 16 dlc was planned, made or finished by the game's release--- it is still free. I didn't pay one dime for it.

[AresKeith]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I am not saying all dlc should be free and if it's a really good dlc I don't mind dropping coin on it.

My issue is the reasoning people use to discredit the free dlc deal, yet will happily lay out money for the same general things from other companies.

 

That is true, both sides are guilty of doing this and honestly have no reason to do it lol 

[KBomb]

That is true, both sides are guilty of doing this and honestly have no reason to do it lol

Tbh, The Spoils of the Avvar(don't know why I keep insisting on calling it Spoils of War) wouldn't have left such a bad taste in my mouth if they hadn't long released an Avvar dlc that I felt was already overpriced. Then release a dlc with Avvar items for $5.00 that I feel should have been included with the previous dlc. And to have the armor as loot on a rng loot system? Jeez, if it's like half the schematics in game, one might loot it and one might not. I dunno. Just leaves me feeling a bit sour.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I'm not quite sure about this.
I mean we can use the "Corypheus self arrogance" argument,to try to explain the lame ending that we get in DAI.
However even the stupidest villain of this world need to be defeated after some struggle,Corypheus after he lost the knowledge of the Well, willingly decide to go to his suicide knowing the full potential of the anchor that he have crafted for no reason whatsoever other than "self arrogance?"
The ending is simply rushed,it's like the developers were
out of budget or time constraints,and they needed to find the quickest way to get rid of him.

It doesn't seem rushed to me. Again, the counter-examples presented (like ME and ME2) are worse, to me, because they're so contrived.

When a plan comes together, things can move quickly. I much prefer this to a long ending sequence which can only exist if the enemy expected all along to face me there, thus invalidating the entire rest of the game.