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[HowlingSiren]

 

That's one element that definitely needs to return for DA4. Hopefully next time we get a song about the Warden and the 5th Blight in the rotation. The battle of Denerim, maybe? Thats ripe for the Song of Roland treatment.

Would be amazing indeed if tavern songs could reference major events from the past games as well. It would help building a feeling of continuity for the returning players, and could serve as background info for new players. A song of Roland treatment for the battle of Denerim would actually get me to play DAO, if I hadn't already.

[midnight tea]

That's one element that definitely needs to return for DA4. Hopefully next time we get a song about the Warden and the 5th Blight in the rotation. The battle of Denerim, maybe? Thats ripe for the Song of Roland treatment.

 

Well.... we DO know that new bard songs are being prepared for upcoming DAI DLC, presumably. 5, according to the singer (and according to her one is about certain scout and one is about the elves). She finished recording them recently (https://twitter.com/...534586298990593).

 

Soooo... since they were eager to record new songs for additional content for DAI (presumably), I figure they'd be more than willing to continue with songs for DA4.

[correctamundo]

Great tune there from the band but what Maryden does is a little more personal to me since the songs are the ones I have found on my trips as a patron of the arts and if you place yourself just right she looks you straight i n the eyes while she sings.

 

Really like the music in these games though =)

[correctamundo]

Would be amazing indeed if tavern songs could reference major events from the past games as well. It would help building a feeling of continuity for the returning players, and could serve as background info for new players. A song of Roland treatment for the battle of Denerim would actually get me to play DAO, if I hadn't already.

 

Yep, a good way to build up on the lore for the future =).

[In Exile]

The way it is executed is just so unnatural. TW3 handled a similar scene a lot better:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=FQhQ-7Iaw8Y

That song is very accurate to what music would have been like - so it's period accurate - but like the period accurate armour I find it to be goddawful.

One of the big reasons I'm such a fan of anachronistic design and styles.

[Riven326]

I share that opinion. 

 

I don't think combat is the crowning achievement of the Witcher series either, but it delivers quite nicely as an action game. Dragon Age on the other hand tries to have both action and tactical gameplay but falls flat on both areas. 

This is the problem. Bioware is trying to make two games at the same time for two different groups of people who enjoy vastly different play styles. The toruble you run into with this approach is that both styles of play often feel underdeveloped and unsatisfying compared to the other games on the market that specialize in one or the other. I often compare modern Bioware's approach to making games by using a food analogy. If you go to a restaurant that has a little bit of everything to choose from on the menu and order a steak, odds are the steak will be good but not great. If however you order from a place that specializes in steaks, you will get something much greater in return.

Bioware is trying to do everything to satisfy everyone. They've been doing it ever since EA acquired them and I think it has really hurt the quality of their games and the reputation of their company. The best games on the market are always the ones that specialize in one area and do that one thing better than everyone else. Why the company continues to try to cater to people who aren't interested in playing RPG's is beyond me. If they are that desperate for sales or they just want to do something different and make a pure action game, then goddamn do it already and do it right. Otherwise, stick to what you're good at and take the winning formula that Origins had and improve it. You don't see Sony Santa Monica adding an option to pause God of War and issue commands to Kratos, it would be incredibly stupid and everyone would say as such. Why they don't criticize Bioware for doing the opposite with Dragon Age is something I don't understand.

 

Nobody else making RPG's is trying to get the CoD kids to play their games because they know it's futile. Nobody else is trying to make two games at the same time and hope that the systems and mechanics mesh well enough together so that the marketing team can market the game both ways. Because of the lack of quality games coming out of Bioware these days, I've begun to look elsewhere and have discovered games made by developers who know who their audience is and what they like and try to make the best RPG experience as possible without diluting the formula so much that the games (and the companies) start to become unrecognizable in just a few short years.

[Han Shot First]

That song is very accurate to what music would have been like - so it's period accurate - but like the period accurate armour I find it to be goddawful.

One of the big reasons I'm such a fan of anachronistic design and styles.

 

Thats one of those things that just boil down to personal preferences I suppose.

 

I generally like both the songs and the armor designs that if not an exact reproduction of medieval/renaissance stuff, draw inspiration from it. 

[SofaJockey]

I'm still hoping that they don't make a DA:I 2 (would be terrible) but it seems they will

 

Seems inevitable.

Hope it is as successful as DAI.

[In Exile]

Thats one of those things that just boil down to personal preferences I suppose.

 

I generally like both the songs and the armor designs that if not an exact reproduction of medieval/renaissance stuff, draw inspiration from it. 

 

I don't honestly even understand why I hate it so much. It's actually enough to be a gamebreaker for me. I played the first 25 hours of TW3 using nothing but the starter armour. I got really good at dodging. 

[Han Shot First]

I don't honestly even understand why I hate it so much. It's actually enough to be a gamebreaker for me. I played the first 25 hours of TW3 using nothing but the starter armour. I got really good at dodging. 

 

There is supposed to be some upcoming DLC (free, I think) from CD Projekt Red for an upgradeable wolf school armor set. I wonder if the starter armor is going to be the first level. That would make sense at least.

[Torgette]

This is the problem. Bioware is trying to make two games at the same time for two different groups of people who enjoy vastly different play styles. The toruble you run into with this approach is that both styles of play often feel underdeveloped and unsatisfying compared to the other games on the market that specialize in one or the other. I often compare modern Bioware's approach to making games by using a food analogy. If you go to a restaurant that has a little bit of everything to choose from on the menu and order a steak, odds are the steak will be good but not great. If however you order from a place that specializes in steaks, you will get something much greater in return.

Bioware is trying to do everything to satisfy everyone. They've been doing it ever since EA acquired them and I think it has really hurt the quality of their games and the reputation of their company. The best games on the market are always the ones that specialize in one area and do that one thing better than everyone else. Why the company continues to try to cater to people who aren't interested in playing RPG's is beyond me. If they are that desperate for sales or they just want to do something different and make a pure action game, then goddamn do it already and do it right. Otherwise, stick to what you're good at and take the winning formula that Origins had and improve it. You don't see Sony Santa Monica adding an option to pause God of War and issue commands to Kratos, it would be incredibly stupid and everyone would say as such. Why they don't criticize Bioware for doing the opposite with Dragon Age is something I don't understand.

 

Nobody else making RPG's is trying to get the CoD kids to play their games because they know it's futile. Nobody else is trying to make two games at the same time and hope that the systems and mechanics mesh well enough together so that the marketing team can market the game both ways. Because of the lack of quality games coming out of Bioware these days, I've begun to look elsewhere and have discovered games made by developers who know who their audience is and what they like and try to make the best RPG experience as possible without diluting the formula so much that the games (and the companies) start to become unrecognizable in just a few short years.

 

Not really, everybody is trying to get as much market share as they can and Bethesda's games have been pretty popular with the more mainstream audience for years not the least for being first person and very easy to get into (it's more just how much you can afford to compromise on to get there). For Bioware the problem is that not many people actually want tactical rpg's, tactical rpg's are consistently the lowest selling games in the genre and rarely ever make it as flagship franchises, yet they have to justify a pretty big budget anyways.

 

I'm going to be controversial and say they should ditch micromanagement completely and go with a job system or paradigm shift for battles, each person has their job/role you assign them for a paradigm and you change that paradigm on the fly to achieve different results needed at any given point (be it the tank aggroing while everybody else hangs back and heals, or everybody rushes in for a physical attack, or ranged attacks only, or tank aggros while rogue does their thing from the back, etc.). This would mean you only really control your player character directly, but it would allow them to focus on making every class engaging and exciting to play. Warrior for example in DAI was an exercise in boredom, but dw rogue assassin was the complete opposite and exciting for a full 60 hours. Rather than making every squadmate play like a player character it would allow them to make them unique in battle as well. It would also be easy to learn/hard to master, something that would benefit the actual tactical side of a tactical rpg.

[Riven326]

Not really, everybody is trying to get as much market share as they can and Bethesda's games have been pretty popular with the more mainstream audience for years not the least for being first person and very easy to get into (it's more just how much you can afford to compromise on to get there). For Bioware the problem is that not many people actually want tactical rpg's, tactical rpg's are consistently the lowest selling games in the genre and rarely ever make it as flagship franchises, yet they have to justify a pretty big budget anyways.

 

I'm going to be controversial and say they should ditch micromanagement completely and go with a job system or paradigm shift for battles, each person has their job/role you assign them for a paradigm and you change that paradigm on the fly to achieve different results needed at any given point (be it the tank aggroing while everybody else hangs back and heals, or everybody rushes in for a physical attack, or ranged attacks only, or tank aggros while rogue does their thing from the back, etc.). This would mean you only really control your player character directly, but it would allow them to focus on making every class engaging and exciting to play. Warrior for example in DAI was an exercise in boredom, but dw rogue assassin was the complete opposite and exciting for a full 60 hours. Rather than making every squadmate play like a player character it would allow them to make them unique in battle as well. It would also be easy to learn/hard to master, something that would benefit the actual tactical side of a tactical rpg.

I must have imagined Dragon Age Origins selling more than any other Bioware title to date after it's release.

[midnight tea]

I must have imagined Dragon Age Origins selling more than any other Bioware title to date after it's release.

 

.... That's from 2010.

[rashie]

Bioware games in general have really never been all that financially successful with the mainstream audience, but the thing with them are that they have a pretty decent sized core fanbase who buys most of the games they do put out pretty consistently, and is thus a pretty safe investment from EA's side.

[Han Shot First]

Bioware games in general have really never been all that financially successful with the mainstream audience, but the thing with them are that they have a pretty decent sized core fanbase who buys most of the games they do put out pretty consistently, and is thus a pretty safe investment from EA's side.

 

I'm not sure if the bolded is entirely true. Most of Bioware's recent games have sold millions of copies. They might not have had Skyrim or Call of Duty numbers, but 20 million+ isn't the norm even for most successful games. Holding Skyrim up as the benchmark for success would be like claiming a film isn't successful unless it makes the sort of money that the Star Wars films, Avatar, or Titanic made.

 

It also all depends on a budget. A game could even sell under a million copies and still be a great success, depending on its development and marketing budget.

 

I never got the sense that Bioware had a lot of games that were commercial bombs. Maybe SWTOR or Dragon Age 2, but DA:O, DA:I, and all the Mass Effect games seemed to be hits for Bioware. I'm also not even sure that SWTOR or DA2 were bombs. SWTOR is still running strong after transitioning to F2P model and DA2, while less successful than DA:O, might have initially benefited from the DA:O hype preorders.

[Riven326]

.... That's from 2010.

Origins was released in November 2009. It was soon after the best selling Bioware game to date. But apparently some people still believe that no one wants these kinds of games.

[rashie]

I wouldn't mind a DA2 repeat if it was just given a 2-3 years of a dev cycle instead of 6-8 months, more time was the number one issue as to why DA2 turned out so poorly.

[midnight tea]

Origins was released in November 2009. It was soon after the best selling Bioware game to date. But apparently some people still believe that no one wants these kinds of games.

 

Um, there's a difference between "nobody wants it" and "not that many people want it" (to be as much a success as some other franchises popular with mainstream audience).

 

Add to that the fact that some things changed in past 5 years...

[Riven326]

I still can't believe how badly they treated this series

Instead of improving and building on Origins foundations they basically scrapped everything and made DA2 (which while ok was simply too different from Origins, it felt more like a spin off than a real sequel, not to mention how rushed it was)
 

And then after it flopped (who would have thought?) instead of finally going back to DA:O they decide to again do something completely different

But sadly it seems this (worse) attempt was actually successful so now we will never get DA:O 2 and instead DA:I 2

 

Its all very frustrating

Yes, one would assume that taking the successful formula that existed in Origins and improving upon it would have been the most logical thing to do since that's what every other company does when making a sequel to a successful game. There was and still is a high demand for these kinds of games despite people saying otherwise. What troubles me the most about modern Bioware is how they pretend to listen to fan feedback and go on and on about how much they value it, only to turn around and completely ignore the majority of the fan base that made it quite clear that they wanted Origins 2. So, when I see them peddling their **** on Facebook and setting up polls to let fans vote on what they want in the next game, I steer clear.

 

Um, there's a difference between "nobody wants it" and "not that many people want it" (to be as much a success as some other franchises popular with mainstream audience).

 

Add to that the fact that some things changed in past 5 years...

What's changed since then that is detrimental to the success of a game like Origins releasing today?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

What's changed since then that is detrimental to the success of a game like Origins releasing today?

The desire for voiced protagonists comes to mind.

[Riven326]

The desire for voiced protagonists comes to mind.

That's it?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Origins was released in November 2009. It was soon after the best selling Bioware game to date.

Inquisition outsold Origins.

 

That's it?

No, that's merely the first thing that came to mind. The days of silent protagonists in AAA games seems to be ending. Even Bethesda apparently is at least looking into the protagonist in Fallout 4 being voiced. 

[rashie]

 

 

What's changed since then that is detrimental to the success of a game like Origins releasing today?

Voiced protagonists, but if done on smaller scale there is still a market for hardcore cRPG's, Pillars of eternity sold like 220k copies on steam alone (not including physical edition, platforms like GoG etc) a week after release.