15897 réponses à ce sujet

[Xetykins]

    It was...

True. But I still sunked a couple hundred hrs more on it than inquisition. Roughly around 150hrs in DAI before I buckled. Origins is still the game where real life like eating,cleaning and meeting friends becomes totally bothersome :-)

[Das Tentakel]

    It was...

 

One person's 'objectively bad game' is another person's  'RPG of the decade'.

 

Although I'll admit that I'd like to have some of the stuff the latter guy (a well-known videogame journalist) was smoking/imbibing.

 

I'm now 125 hours and 42% into Witcher III. While there's plenty of stuff that is open to improvement, if I compare all three Witcher games I think that, by and large, CDPR is improving at a remarkable rate relative to BioWare. Not that Bio is standing still, but CDPR has come a far way in a relatively short time.

 

It'll be interesting to see what will happen with the other studios that have gone quasi-independent like Larian, Obsidian etc. The cRPG scene is extremely lively these days and that also puts considerable pressure on improving not only story, setting and characters but also mechanics. Although I can't say I have been pleased with any BioWare game since DA:O, I do think it's important Bio stays in the cRPG genre: The more competition, the better.

[TheOgre]

On their forums, many of them don't.

But they are just going to have to deal with it.

(Just like the way Dragon Age and Mass Effect have evolved   )

 Count me as anti voice, it kills the feel a bit IMO.

 

Maybe someone will mod it though and remove his audio files with subtitles instead. I'll really dig it then.

[Grieving Natashina]

True. But I still sunked a couple hundred hrs more on it than inquisition. Roughly around 150hrs in DAI before I buckled. Origins is still the game where real life like eating,cleaning and meeting friends becomes totally bothersome :-)

....

....

 

I had a lot of trouble finishing my last Origins session because I found myself utterly bored to tears more often than not.  This isn't a game that has aged well for me personally.  Between the blank expression of my character, the shuffle in combat and the brown everywhere, I found my attention wandering.  I can't say the same with Inquisition and I have over 170 hours played now.  

 

Don't shoot me, please.  I'm only speaking for myself, and I mean no disrespect towards folks that loved Origins the most.  I mean no harm.  

 

I know it's an extremely unpopular opinion, but I think that DA:I is a superior game to Origins.  Please don't get me wrong.  I don't want every game to be like Inquisition, since there is a lot of concepts that they should leave out next time (like the Power system, the lack of zone music, too many side quests disconnected from the plot, ect.)  I also think some systems from Origins should make a return (like having at least something of a real tactics system, Blood Mage spec, a tighter main plot,) so I'm not saying that's bad either.  I guess I don't feel the overwhelming attachment to Origins.  

 

As a whole, Dragon Age is my favorite BioWare series to date.  With some of the ideas in this thread, and elsewhere, as well as the experience the devs gained by working with the engine and trying new ideas, I think it only has room for improvement. 

[TheOgre]

    It was...

 

[SofaJockey]

Agreed
I actually like that they have a voiced protagonist now (but I know most Bethesda fans won't)

 

On their forums, many of them don't.

But they are just going to have to deal with it.

(Just like the way Dragon Age and Mass Effect have evolved   )

[TheOgre]

....

....

 

I had a lot of trouble finishing my last Origins session because I found myself utterly bored to tears more often than not.  This isn't a game that has aged well for me personally.  Between the blank expression of my character, the shuffle in combat and the brown everywhere, I found my attention wandering.  I can't say the same with Inquisition and I have over 170 hours played now.  

 

Don't shoot me, please.  I'm only speaking for myself, and I mean no disrespect towards folks that loved Origins the most.  I mean no harm.  

 

I know it's an extremely unpopular opinion, but I think that DA:I is a superior game to Origins.  Please don't get me wrong.  I don't want every game to be like Inquisition, since there is a lot of concepts that they should leave out next time (like the Power system, the lack of zone music, too many side quests disconnected from the plot, ect.)  I also think some systems from Origins should make a return (like having at least something of a real tactics system, Blood Mage spec, a tighter main plot,) so I'm not saying that's bad either.  I guess I don't feel the overwhelming attachment to Origins.  

 

As a whole, Dragon Age is my favorite BioWare series to date.  With some of the ideas in this thread, and elsewhere, as well as the experience the devs gained by working with the engine and trying new ideas, I think it only has room for improvement. 

 

How dare you have an opinion different than my own.

 

Spoiler

 

 

Disclaimer: Had to hide it because god was it massive.

[Grieving Natashina]

How dare you have an opinion.

 

 

I'm just being cautious.  Given how unpopular DA:I is with some posters, and how beloved Origins is, I didn't want to offend anyone.  

 

It's like how I feel with some other games.  I think that FFVII was one of the most overrated games I've ever played and that X-2 was more interesting.  I'm occasionally full of RPG opinions that tend to make the majority a little ticked off.  

[TheOgre]

 

 

I'm just being cautious.  Given how unpopular DA:I is with some posters, and how beloved Origins is, I didn't want to offend anyone.  

 

It's like how I feel with some other games.  I think that FFVII was one of the most overrated games I've ever played and that X-2 was more interesting.  I'm occasionally full of RPG opinions that tend to make the majority a little ticked off.  

 

Dear god don't say anything negative about FFXII, I had someone jump at me with a spoon threateningly when I said Meh. He tried to go for my eye!

[Grieving Natashina]

Dear god don't say anything negative about FFXII, I had someone jump at me with a spoon threateningly when I said Meh. He tried to go for my eye!

You mean the Star Wars rip off that not even the voice of Gideon Emery could save for me?  The game that I have never been able to get past the 20 hour mark because I hated Vaan, and thought the game was slower than dried mud?

 

I could happily talk crap about FFXII all day long.  

[Das Tentakel]

I had a lot of trouble finishing my last Origins session because I found myself utterly bored to tears more often than not. This isn't a game that has aged well for me personally. Between the blank expression of my character, the shuffle in combat and the brown everywhere, I found my attention wandering. I can't say the same with Inquisition and I have over 170 hours played now.

Don't shoot me, please. I'm only speaking for myself, and I mean no disrespect towards folks that loved Origins the most. I mean no harm.

I know it's an extremely unpopular opinion, but I think that DA:I is a superior game to Origins.

When people say they prefer Origins, I don’t think they mean they want to go back to 2009. Even then the game was pretty much ‘behind the curve’ in terms of graphics, animation and visual design.
It’s just that a lot of us who liked DA:O - warts and al - back in 2009 wanted a different evolution of the franchise. I think many people like me, who have played all Witcher and Dragon Age games, have found Witcher’s evolution to be more along the lines of what we wanted / needed (there’s a difference between what one wants and what one needs…). There are warts here too, yes, but more than amply compensated by oodles of goodness. Good Lord, did we get value for money there...

Here’s my list of things I wanted or, in retrospect, needed:

• Keeping and evolving the concept of the different Origin stories.
• Keeping the game linear but with a couple of parallel / interchangeable ‘tracks’ towards the end.
• Keeping the game primarily tactical (on PC at least)
• Limited but decent-quality sidequests. TW3 level of quality would be nice, but not strictly speaking necessary – I could envisage this kind of effort being directed at improving / extending the main quest, better Companion character quests and Origin-related quests.
• More dynamic-feeling locations (landscape and settlements both)
• A lot more consistency and cohesion in terms of visual design (no, not more brown, but keep out the circa 1900 parade uniforms and the 1600-1800 Venetian carnival influences etc.)
• General improvement in graphics and animation (well, at least I got that one, more or less)

Note that there's just a few things where DA might 'learn' from TW3 (in fact, some of this, like the sidequest stuff and the settlements, is something everybody pretty much figured out without the example of TW3).

 

The open zones were, in my view, not necessary. In fact, I would have preferred limited but still fairly big, well-designed ‘levels’ or zones, a further evolution of the larger zones you see in DA:O, TW1 and TW2.
The quasi-open world design of DA:I posed BioWare great problems when it came to filling them with content and in my opinion they failed. TW3 was (mostly) able to pull off its open world - although there are some who would have preferred a more limited and linear design here as well - but my feeling is that DA:I really stumbled in this regard.

[TheOgre]

Spoiler

@nat

This, this is me trying to save you from the flames!

[Xetykins]

....
....

I had a lot of trouble finishing my last Origins session because I found myself utterly bored to tears more often than not. This isn't a game that has aged well for me personally. Between the blank expression of my character, the shuffle in combat and the brown everywhere, I found my attention wandering. I can't say the same with Inquisition and I have over 170 hours played now.

Don't shoot me, please. I'm only speaking for myself, and I mean no disrespect towards folks that loved Origins the most. I mean no harm.

I know it's an extremely unpopular opinion, but I think that DA:I is a superior game to Origins. Please don't get me wrong. I don't want every game to be like Inquisition, since there is a lot of concepts that they should leave out next time (like the Power system, the lack of zone music, too many side quests disconnected from the plot, ect.) I also think some systems from Origins should make a return (like having at least something of a real tactics system, Blood Mage spec, a tighter main plot,) so I'm not saying that's bad either. I guess I don't feel the overwhelming attachment to Origins.

As a whole, Dragon Age is my favorite BioWare series to date. With some of the ideas in this thread, and elsewhere, as well as the experience the devs gained by working with the engine and trying new ideas, I think it only has room for improvement.

Lol no one is shooting you dear! I'm glad someone thinks Inquisition is the better game even if its deffo not me, or the franchise would die and I really don't want that. It's just that for me Origins is the better and totally epic game with so many things going on and presented well. Pretty game is just a pretty game that gets old fast. And having played Origins on pc really, there's nothing to complain about and it certainly aged just fine for me.

I mean really, I hate shooter games, but having recently discovered ME series ( cuz I was bored to tears with DAI) I'd say it has become my favorite franchise even if I'm shooting myself on the foot half the time. So Origins and ME series are my best games. Granted I don't have the platorea of games to boast about growing up on a no video games allowed type of family, but I'm happy with what I play right now.

If I can play TW3, with having seen what I've seen, it would have been up there with Origins. But alas.

[Grieving Natashina]

Spoiler

@nat

This, this is me trying to save you from the flames!

If folks want to flame for for my opinion of FFXII, screw 'em.  I've gotten into far too many peeing matches over FF games when I was younger to be bothered with it anymore.

 

If I'm being honest:

 

I thought the Origin stories were clumsy at best.  They overall did not serve the main story to me, aside from the dwarven stories.  It was a nice intro to the lore, and a way to get the player into the plot, but they were "meh" for me at best.  I don't miss them and I don't see a need for them.  I think it would be better to just start the game without such an origin story, but at least bring up the past in the game with more than a conversation.  For example, in DA:I I would have loved to actually meet a member of the Carta on my dwarf and do a mission for them; or talk to a cousin on my human.

 

I would have preferred tactics on par with DA2 for this game, but as a PC player, I've been enjoying their action RPG style.  I think they need to pick either tactical or action, because this hybrid method isn't working very well.  At this point, I can't say I have a preference, other than they need to come down off the fence.  It seems like they are having their cake and eating it too.  They need to quit.

 

I'm sorry, but Origins did not have that many good side quests for me.  For the good ones, I could name ones that I felt for my personal experience were just as good in Inquisition if not better most of the time.  The Mage's Collective was a huge fetch quest chain that really had zero to do with the plot.  The mercenary recruitment just annoyed me.  

 

The garnets quest was the worst and I despise that quest to this day.  One big flaw with DA:I is that they took the garnet quest and pretty much applied it to half of their requisition missions.  Out of all the things from Origins I didn't like coming into DA:I, that was the worst for me. 

 

The landscapes in DA:I felt extremely dynamic and alive to me.   While I agree that some touches like what TW3 would help this even more, I feel like sometimes I've been playing a different DA:I from the rest.  It's light years away from both Origins and DA2 for me.

 

The costumes was perfectly fine for Orlais.  Thedas has always been a hodge-podge of various different time periods and cultures.  Even in Origins they mention that Ferelden was very backwater and considered nearly barbaric for the rest of Thedas with their clothing and manner.  I don't see why they had to keep to a rather strict sense of style from the medieval period.  If I wanted to play a game that a more stricter representation of styles of medieval times, I could play TW or NWN or heck, a lot of other RPGs.  I like DA because it's a mix of different cultures, styles and attitudes.  This is a world that didn't have to mirror our own culture evolution exactly.    

 

I do agree about open world aspect coming out rather half-hearted.  I haven't played TW3, but I feel that BioWare just stretched themselves too thin.  Some zones, like the Storm Coast, the Western Approach, Emerald Graves and Emprise du Lion felt like they had the right amount of quests to me as well as a connection to the main plot.  Otherwise, like the Hissing Wastes, the Forbidden Oasis (I have so much hate for that zone,) the Hinterlands and the Exalted Plains suffer from (oddly enough) both too much and not enough content.  The Hinterlands has a bit of a pass in my eyes, given that's the first zone, but the rest that I listed have no excuse.

 

When it comes to DA, ME or TW, I only care if folks feel like they are having a good time.  If they had fun, and have ideas that could work for other games, then I'm a happy camper.  If they didn't have fun, then I hope they can find a game that they like.  It's never fun feeling like you didn't get the most for your money.  

 

RPGs are big again!  It's been several years since they were this popular, so it's a grand time for me, no matter what series or RPG style someone likes.  

[SnakeCode]

Dear god don't say anything negative about FFXII, I had someone jump at me with a spoon threateningly when I said Meh. He tried to go for my eye!

 

I'm just going to say this before I die in a massive flame(ing) related death. XII is better than VII.

[Grieving Natashina]

I'm just going to say this before I die in a massive flame(ing) related death. XII is better than VII.

They are both pretty overrated, but at least I finished FFVII more than once.  I even did all the side quests, including picking up KOTR and killing the weapons.  Otherwise, I'm a FFVI fan, so no skin off of me.  

[SnakeCode]

They are both pretty meh, but at least I finished FFVII more than once.  I even did all the side quests, including picking up KOTR and killing the weapons.

 

Yeah but I mean... You like X-2      

[Grieving Natashina]

Yeah but I mean... You like X-2      

Yeah, well, other than a lot of the soundtrack, I think it's a great game.  It's the most fun I've had in FF games for combat, and the story (aside from Twue Luv) was actually interesting to me.   It was fascinating seeing Spira a few years later, after the "Happy Ending."  An example of a game that screwed that up was FFIV: The After Years.  It's the best Square fanfiction game I've ever played.  It wasn't bad, but holy crap....just when I think Square can't find another shark to jump, they invent things like the Mysterious Mary Sue Girl.  

 

Square was my first game company love and they have managed to completely trash that love over the last 11 years or so.  This is why I try not to come down too hard on fans that are feeling frustrated with BioWare and their crop of games over the last 4 years.  I don't feel the same way about this company, but I do feel that way about Square.

[TheOgre]

You know how I feel about the inquisition 'origin stories'..

[Jester]

Hmm, there's another thing, connected to those companies, that I just now realized.

 

Each next game of CDPR is improved in almost every aspect - both in an answer to feedback from players, and by realizing their own ideas:

• People complained that Witcher 2 was too short - so The Witcher 3 is 3-5 times that long, without dropping the quality of content (even increasing it at points).
• People complained, that Witcher 2 had corridor level design, so Wither 3 has full open world, of a massive scale.
• People complained about stiff combat and Geralt rolling around like crazy, so combat was heavily streamlined and was made far more fluid. 
• People complained about facial animations and body language, so both of those elements were heavily improved upon.
• People (mostly fans of the books) complained about the game lacking crucial characters from the universe - so other witchers, Ciri, Yen, Dijkstra and many more characters are in the game and are crucial for the plot.

 

Apart from that, they improved crafting, increased the number of skills, expanded and streamlined alchemy... 

Inventory screen, while cluttered (I hope they fix this...) is still better than in previous game. 

 

Now, the main problem in last BioWare games, is that while they are really good, you cannot say that there is vast improvement from sequel to sequel. 

Mostly there is improvement in some area, and either a controversial design decision or just an objective step backward in terms of features. 

 

For example, Dragon Age: Inquisition vs. Dragon Age II:

• People complained, that DA2 has the same few locations through the entire game - so Inquisition has a really large, semi-open world... with very little to do, and almost completely disconnected from the main plot. Improvement, but a very strange and controversial decision.
• People complained about DA2 combat (waves of enemies, over-the-top, riddiculously fast animations with no impact), so DA:I removed wave combat, improved animations and slowed everything down to a reasonable pace, but at the same time stripped away most of the Tactics screen, gave a maximum of 8 active abilities and made all combat damage depend only on weapons. Improvements in one area, controversial design or just stripping features in another.
• People complained about repetitive quest design, so main quests and some of the character specific missions are spectacularly done, but there is a metric ton of fetch quests all around the semi-open world.
• People complained about not being able to customize equipment for their companions - in Inquisition you can (and they even retain their unique appearance!), but at the same time, the number of unique looking armor designs is embarassingly low.

They also made some other questionable design choices - like many non-cinematic conversations, and didn't improve at all (or even made the problem worse) in other areas, like the rushed ending mission.

 

So while Inquisition is overally better game than DA2, and improvement is there, you cannot objectively say that BioWare sequels are better in nearly every way to their predecessors - and you can certainly say that about CDPR sequels. 

 

The same kind of comparison can be made for Mass Effect 1&2 of course (less so for Mass Effect 2&3). 

 

So if I had to give my feedback about the new Dragon Age game, this would be it.

Just improve upon every single aspect of DA:I - while spinning a new story with some new (and some old) characters. 

 

In terms of game design (with relation to sequels) I'd much prefer evolution (like The Witcher, or to a lesser degree Mass Effect 2&3) than revolution (like in Dragon Age games). 

[Grieving Natashina]

 

You know how I feel about the inquisition 'origin stories'.. 

 

 

 

You mean picking a card?  I wouldn't have minded that, if I had actually gotten a chance to meet people from my PC's past.  This sounds a little sad, but when I first saw a dwarf talking to Josie in Haven, I was hoping I could have dialogue with her based on my past.  You know, hoping she was a member of the Carta.  When I realized that my dwarf's story was regulated to mostly War Table missions, I was very letdown.  That War Table is slowly growing on my list of things I really dislike in Inquisition, due to how much of some of the more interesting parts of the game are regulated to that.

 

Show, don't tell when it comes to things like that. 

 

As it was, I was very thankful for the dialogue options, because that was all I got.  I still felt connected to my Inquisitor and so far, I can certainly tell the difference between my dwarf, my human and my elf.  It could have been so much more.  I think that the word budget that was used for all of those little side quests would have been better served fleshing out the PC.  I could have done with a few less zones for a tighter plot and more interaction with the past my PC came from, as well as more cutscenes.

[SnakeCode]

I'm pretty much the same regarding Square. I fell in love with FFIV (still my favourite to this day) and never looked back. I'm also the unpopular opinion guy when it comes to FF, wasn't a big fan of VII and I think Cloud is the worst protagonist they've ever done, I actually loved XII. I even liked XIII for the most part (hated the sequel though and I refuse to play Lightning returns.) I think FFX is the second best game of the series, the only thing that I concur with most FF fans on is that I think X-2 is garbage. I just couldn't get into it. I did get the X/X-2 HD remaster though so I may give it another shot at some point.

[Grieving Natashina]

I'm pretty much the same regarding Sqare. I fell in love with FFIV (still my favourite to this day) and never looked back. I'm also the unpopular opinion when it comes to FF, wasn't a big fan of VII and I think Cloud is the worst protagonist they've ever done, I actually loved XII. I even liked XIII for the most part (hated the sequel though and I refuse to play Lightning returns.) I think FFX is the second best game of the series, the only thing that I concur with most FF fans on is that I think X-2 is garbage. I just couldn't get into it. I did get the X/X-2 HD remaster though so I may give it another shot at some point.

I started with FF1.  That was my fourth RPG; I cut my teeth on the Dragon Warrior (aka the Dragon Quest) series.  Well, I played Shadowgate before that.  Anyway, the one that got me hooked was IV as well, and I've played all of them other than FFVIII in the pre-PS2 era.  I think Squall is the worst protagonist that Square has ever done.  Vaan is second.  Cloud I give a break, because that really wasn't Cloud if you think about it.  He was pretending to be Zakk, and after playing Crisis Core, I can't say that I blame him.  Zakk was awesome.  (I even have "The Price of Freedom" in my will to be played at my funeral.  One of the other two songs in there is Vigil's Theme from ME1.)

 

FFXIII: The Hallway is the last Square game I'm ever picking up for full price.  That game made me so angry that I shut it off after 2 hours and I haven't looked at it since.  I agree with you about FFX, other than Tidus throughout most of the game.  Auron helps make it for it.  The only FF game that I've completed and hated was FFII.  The core game was annoying as hell.  The bonus dungeon almost made me throw my PSP across the room when I was finished.  What a waste of bloody time.

 

I can't defend some of the more...airheaded aspects of FFX-2.  There is a fair amount of giggling and other moments of jumping up and down like school girls.  It can get very silly.  Like the fact that they named a concert..Yunaplazooa.  The song thankfully is a part of one of the best scenes in the game (even the hyper critical Spoony thought it was good,) but there is a lot of sugary crap overlayed on the game, as well as some dumb parts that there is no excuse for (like pretty much all of Chapter 4.)  The plot is pretty serious though.  If you do decide to play it, use a walkthrough.  It's one of those completionist games that are based on a percentage.

 

I won't lie and say you'll like it.  It's worth a shot, if nothing else for some of the best combat mechanics in the series.  The dress spheres (job classes) are varied and useful.  The active combat system can be made even faster, and you can switch out jobs in mid-combat.  The VA for Yuna also improved greatly, and the new gal Paine is a nicely cynical counterbalance.  I apologize now if you like Rikku from X.  She is 2 years older in X-2, yet acts a lot younger than she did in X.  Her VA direction went sharply downhill, straight into "whiny teenager" territory.  

 

I get why the game is so hated.  My husband politely had asked me in the past to not play it when he was home, mainly because the soundtrack and Rikku's voice drove him nuts.  

 

I also really like DA2, (more Hawkes than Wardens completed) so I'm used to enjoying games that others despise.

[thevaleyard]

Some visual consistency between DA games would be nice. Kaer Morhen and the palace in Vizima are virtually identical in both TW1 and  TW3. As for Redcliffe and the castle...well the only thing I recognize in DAI is the red cliffs and that the castle has a lake.

 

But then DA has a problem with constantly changing art styles, visual design and combat mechanics across each game and not always for the better. I will never understand why tactics had to be dumbed down so badly.

[Grieving Natashina]

With Redcliffe, I was able to move around in the interior based upon memory from Origins.  So they did a decent job there, as far as I'm concerned.  I think we'll see less style changing after this game.  Each DA game before this had been on different engines, so that will affect the art style.  It does need to be more consistent, but that's something I could easily see happening from here on out.  EA has said many times that they plan on having all of their games on the FB engine, and that will help provide a consistent style for the series.

 

The tactics, well...I found DA:O's system too bloated, but I thought that DA2's system was okay.  It's the idiotic AI in this game I can't stand.  I'm having flashbacks to bad pick-up groups from MMOs every time I encounter a dragon or a giant.  Prior this game, the AI was at least decent enough to where rogues and mages wouldn't run up to enemies and stay in their faces.  They'd keep to a ranged distance, or at least not directly in front of the damned monster and usually stay flanked without my input.  For DA:I, the programmers failed to give the players something that basic while stripping any real tactics out of the game.  It's a shame, really, and another thing I never want to see repeated in a DA game.