15897 réponses à ce sujet

[TheOgre]

To who? You're given the top assignments right off the bat and allowed to sit on the council, negotiating deals without anyone even knowing if you're capable of such. Then you're made Inquisitor because hey "You were already doing the job." And the road to "mega powerful" was an easy one with hardly a challenge.

Meanwhile the Warden had assassins, Loghain, a landsmeet where they had to appeal to far more powerful individuals just to get anything done. The only thing you had were the treaties and even then no one wanted to lift a finger for you unless they got something in return.

The strawman argument is strong with correctamundo.

[correctamundo]

To who? You're given the top assignments right off the bat and allowed to sit on the council, negotiating deals without anyone even knowing if you're capable of such.  Then you're made Inquisitor because hey "You were already doing the job."  And the road to "mega powerful" was an easy one with hardly a challenge. 

 

Meanwhile the Warden had assassins, Loghain, a landsmeet where they had to appeal to far more powerful individuals just to get anything done.  The only thing you had were the treaties and even then no one wanted to lift a finger for you unless they got something in return.

 

Hardly a challenge? Okaay, I guess barely escaping with your life by a hairs breadth is all in a days work for bicycle repair man. And no you don't have to appeal for anything at the landsmeet. You just go in and kill anyone who is against you. It is that simple. And just how much power and influence does the inquisition get if you just sit fiddling your thumbs. Of course they want something in return. :-D

[midnight tea]

To who? You're given the top assignments right off the bat and allowed to sit on the council, negotiating deals without anyone even knowing if you're capable of such.  Then you're made Inquisitor because hey "You were already doing the job."  And the road to "mega powerful" was an easy one with hardly a challenge. 

 

Meanwhile the Warden had assassins, Loghain, a landsmeet where they had to appeal to far more powerful individuals just to get anything done.  The only thing you had were the treaties and even then no one wanted to lift a finger for you unless they got something in return.

 

... Top assignments? Honestly, people have to be more consistent in what they're complaining about - here I thought that the most frequent complaint many people had was that the Herald was sent to Hinterlands to do menial jobs and PR stunts, like taking care of refugees or finding agents and generally stuff "not fit for Inquisitor", at least at first.

 

And have you ever paid attention to assignments or war table missions? First ones were limited - send a note to family here, send a note there, and a tiny contingent over there. No "top assignments" for Herald at first - unless you count things like "bargain for horses for the Inquisition" (a task given to Harding and her group at first), save a bunch of soldiers in some god-forsaken bog or find out what happened to the Wardens when Leliana can't find anybody else who'd share her concerns about their sudden disappearance. Top assignments indeed  . Their importance and scale grows together with what Inquisitor accomplishes throughout the story.

 

Also - overall it's much easier to gain importance when people think of you as a person blessed by the Maker/Andraste or possess the only way to close rifts - and have advisers who once held important positions within Chantry (so important that they're later chosen to be candidates for new Divine). Inquisition is not a story of some ragtag underdogs who have to assemble a group able to slay Archdemon - it's a tale of someone who has greatness imposed on them from the start, and the question that is posed is whether they're able to carry it or focus on something more than just themselves. DAO and DAI are simply two different tales.

[Hazegurl]

Hardly a challenge? Okaay, I guess barely escaping with your life by a hairs breadth is all in a days work for bicycle repair man. And no you don't have to appeal for anything at the landsmeet. You just go in and kill anyone who is against you. It is that simple. And just how much power and influence does the inquisition get if you just sit fiddling your thumbs. Of course they want something in return. :-D

I'm talking about the challenges you face becoming Inquisitor.  Who challenges you? How did you have to earn your place on the council?  Who did you have to prove anything to before you're sent out to secure major deals such as the Templar or Mage alliances?  Who gave you the authority to determine if you can imprison a group of people or set them free? Why is Cassandra, the supposed leader, hanging back and relying on you to negotiate something as serious as the Mage/Templar dispute?  Why aren't Cullen or even Leliana going instead?  C'mon.

 

The go in and kill everyone approach can be done but only if you're not smart enough to handle yourself there.  And even then, if you have to resort to killing everyone then it's because no one there was willing to bow down and defer to you and your judgement just because you walked into the room and called yourself a GW.

[Xetykins]

Hardly a challenge? Okaay, I guess barely escaping with your life by a hairs breadth is all in a days work for bicycle repair man. And no you don't have to appeal for anything at the landsmeet. You just go in and kill anyone who is against you. It is that simple. And just how much power and influence does the inquisition get if you just sit fiddling your thumbs. Of course they want something in return. :-D

Simple?? You can't even get to the landsmeet to" just" kill whoever is against you, before you crawl on all fours just to get all the allies that was not even yours to command till the very very end. And you have to have the right amount of votes to even do that. And to do that you have to do something for those people. Seriously, play the game first.

[midnight tea]

I'm talking about the challenges you face becoming Inquisitor.  Who challenges you? How did you have to earn your place on the council?  Who did you have to prove anything to before you're sent out to secure major deals such as the Templar or Mage alliances?  Who gave you the authority to determine if you can imprison a group of people or set them free? Why is Cassandra, the supposed leader, hanging back and relying on you to negotiate something as serious as the Mage/Templar dispute?  Why aren't Cullen or even Leliana going instead?  C'mon.

 

The go in and kill everyone approach can be done but only if you're not smart enough to handle yourself there.  And even then, if you have to resort to killing everyone then it's because no one there was willing to bow down and defer to you and your judgement just because you walked into the room and called yourself a GW.

 

 

-Who challenges you? 

.....Pretty much the entire Chantry (or what's left of it).

 

-How did you have to earn your place on the council?

*cough*Herald of Andraste/Mark Of The Rift*cough*

 

-Who did you have to prove anything to before you're sent out to secure major deals such as the Templar or Mage alliances?

Inquisitor is sent either as a bait (after we find out that Venatori are obsessed with the Herald) or as a tiny cherry on top of a noble Orlesian cake, to appease Lord Seeker.

 

-Who gave you the authority to determine if you can imprison a group of people or set them free?

The decision was made on spot - basically, Inquisitor used this opportunity to force their own decision. It is addressed - extensively - in post-alliance cutscenes and quite a few interactions with advisors.

 

-Why is Cassandra, the supposed leader, hanging back and relying on you to negotiate something as serious as the Mage/Templar dispute?

Cassandra is NOT a leader - she is unofficially thought as one, but Inquisition has no leader until Skyhold is reached. Also - when is the serious Mage/Templar dispute negotiated, exactly?

[correctamundo]

Simple?? You can't even get to the landsmeet to" just" kill whoever is against you, before you crawl on all fours just to get all the allies that was not even yours to command till the very very end. And you have to have the right amount of votes to even do that. And to do that you have to do something for those people. Seriously, play the game first.

 

Crawling on all fours? Anyway I don't recall stating that it was simple for either the warden or the inq. I simply (<) stated that the warden did't have to appeal anything to the landsmeet. As soon as he/she is through the door it can only go the wardens way. You can of course use diplomacy if you are so inclined.

[Realmzmaster]

Pick any cRPG in existence for the first perhaps two thirds of the game your character or party are important errand people. Branka even states in DAO when Oghren says your character is a warden She replies Oh! An important errand boy. DAI the same thing. The Inquisitor is an important errand person until reaching Skyhold.

 

We could ask in DAO what experience did the warden have to become commander of the army? Alstair or Anora both appoint the warden as commander. The noble dwarf origin is the only one where the warden may have that experience. Being able to fight does not mean that one can command.

 

If you talk to Iron Bull he states it best. The Qunari do not pick their leaders from the best, bravest or strongest, but from the ones who are willing to make the hard decisions and live with the consequences.

 

Non-mage Hawke may have some experience as a soldier at Ostagar. But, the noble human, dalish elf , city elf or mage in DAO would have no real command experience. The treaties give wardens the right to request what is needed.  The treaties do not grant the ability to actually be able to use properly what is gathered.

 

The Mark represents something like the treaties. It gives some legitimacy to the character. People believe him/her to be the Herald. The mark does not mean that the Herald can lead properly no more than the warden.

 

I like all three DA games for different reasons, but as always YMMV.

[Elhanan]

Thanks for the template!

-Who challenges you? 
"Pretty much the entire Chantry (or what's left of it)." Agreed, plus Haven, other organizations, and someone named Cory.
 
-How did you have to earn your place on the council?
Pass the 'Survive the Fade' and 'Close the Rift' initiation tests.
 
-Who did you have to prove anything to before you're sent out to secure major deals such as the Templar or Mage alliances?
In my campaigns - both siding with Mages - these included many of the folks at Haven, helping the refugees, Mother Giselle, and most of the major NPC's and organizations of the Storm Coast, the Fallow Mire, and the Hinterlands before I stepped inside of Redcliffe.

-Who gave you the authority to determine if you can imprison a group of people or set them free?
The Big Bound Book from ages past; the one recognized by the Chantry. It works much like ancient treaties with Elves, Dwarves, Mages. etc.
 
-Why is Cassandra, the supposed leader, hanging back and relying on you to negotiate something as serious as the Mage/Templar dispute?
Cassandra was a leader in the Seekers, as was Leliana; both leaving their positions due to the loss of the Divine. And as I recall, they both had several occasions to voice input as I chose to seek their council among others; cannot speak for other Players that might have ignored such opportunities.

[Aren]

I agree with InExile on this point.

The Warden ,even if it isn't depicted so evidently, is hold up by the narrative

(save the world in time of record) to be a special snowflake.

The warden does not possess the mark however the narrative hold up the protagonist to be a sort of demi-god ,especially because this character manage to survive to multiple suicide missions without problem ,and in no point the narrative suggests that help is needed ,you do not even see the blight in DAO after ostagar,where is the horde that have won the battle? Where is the AD for an entire year?

(yes the army is not needed to eliminate the AD in denerim, and if you are an hardcore player not even the companions)

sorry but i genuinely believe that neither the inquisitor,neither the Warden are "realistic characters" at least for my standard, Hawke being the only one.

 

The Warden is a special snowflake, a blight defeated in 1 year in one of the most weak nation of Thedas during 2 civil war

(orzamar was near to a civil war)  With only 3 warden and without griffins?

this is not realistic.

 

Gharael has defeated Andorhal in 15 years with a great army and with griffins,and multiple GW, and suddenly The Warden of the dragon age come and won in 1 year?

Unless this AD being utterly weak and stupid compared to his siblings there is no valid justification to not see the warden as another Bioware snowflake.

AD are not so easily defeated.

Hell the warden kill even another Corypheus and his  disciples minions,as well as the children 

(Darkspawn abominations even more powerful than Ogre,than no one have seen until now)

where the Orlesian wardens failed badly and got killed

 

these are things of another world,that make me feel disconnected from the danger of the world,everything is a walk in the park both in DAO and DAI

[TheOgre]

 

I agree with InExile on this point.

The Warden ,even if it isn't depicted so evidently, is hold up by the narrative

(save the world in time of record) to be a special snowflake.

The warden does not possess the mark however the narrative hold up the protagonist to be a sort of demi-god ,especially because this character manage to survive to multiple suicide missions without problem ,and in no point the narrative suggests that help is needed

(yes the army is not needed to eliminate the AD, and if you are an hardcore player not even the companions)

sorry but i genuinely believe that neither the inquisitor,neither the Warden are "realistic characters" at least for my standard, Hawke being the only one.

 

 

As someone pointed out a bit ago, the Warden had to earn that and had no special gimmick other than being a warden

 

Yes, you do grand things for Fereldon, but you don't have a special power other than your choices/dialogue to do so. There's only one inquisitor who can plug the whole in the sky. There's Alistair, or Loghain if you conscript him. 

 

I will agree the Warden, like the Inquisitor saves the day regardless. I'm just how big of a snowflake here.

[Hazegurl]

Crawling on all fours? Anyway I don't recall stating that it was simple for either the warden or the inq. I simply (<) stated that the warden did't have to appeal anything to the landsmeet. As soon as he/she is through the door it can only go the wardens way. You can of course use diplomacy if you are so inclined.

Not really true.  You can lose the landsmeet.  The only way to win if you lose the argument is a duel with Loghain.  Also not everything can go the Warden's way there.  Alistair will not work with Loghain no matter what you say. And if you declare yourself future Queen while being a nonhuman or mage, forget about it.

[Grieving Natashina]

Not to interrupt this latest debate about Origins, but I want to say thanks to everyone in the thread.  I got my new video card installed today.  It runs circles around what my ATI was doing, and the game looking amazing.  I've probably got to do a little tweaking, but I'm averaging around 60 FPS with nearly maxed settings (I never turn up waters or shadows.)  It's quiet and the game even loads up much faster than it did before.

 

Thank you guys!  Inquisition looks better than ever, and your recommendations helped.  I'm going to enjoy it, because I won't be seeing any brand new games for quite some time.  <hugs>  

 

Enjoy your debate.  

[Saphiron123]

Not really true.  You can lose the landsmeet.  The only way to win if you lose the argument is a duel with Loghain.  Also not everything can go the Warden's way there.  Alistair will not work with Loghain no matter what you say. And if you declare yourself future Queen while being a nonhuman or mage, forget about it.

Nobody isn't saying the warden isn't KIND of special, he has to be... but he's not a god, unless of course the difficulty is set super low.

If the warden was a fat, lazy idiot Duncan wouldn't have selected him and he would have died in his respective origin.

So yes, saving the world requires someone of a special calibre so but so does accomplishing anything great in life. Thins can still go badly, you can lose friends, you can die in the end... and most people fail to note that it's a game, so they probably reloaded a LOT to get to the end.

If you've ever reloaded a save after a loss, you can't complain about how godly your character is, because he already died accomplishing nothing.

[Saphiron123]

 

I agree with InExile on this point.

The Warden ,even if it isn't depicted so evidently, is hold up by the narrative

(save the world in time of record) to be a special snowflake.

The warden does not possess the mark however the narrative hold up the protagonist to be a sort of demi-god ,especially because this character manage to survive to multiple suicide missions without problem ,and in no point the narrative suggests that help is needed ,you do not even see the blight in DAO after ostagar,where is the horde that have won the battle? Where is the AD for an entire year?

(yes the army is not needed to eliminate the AD in denerim, and if you are an hardcore player not even the companions)

sorry but i genuinely believe that neither the inquisitor,neither the Warden are "realistic characters" at least for my standard, Hawke being the only one.

 

The Warden is a special snowflake, a blight defeated in 1 year in one of the most weak nation of Thedas during 2 civil war

(orzamar was near to a civil war)  With only 3 warden and without griffins?

this is not realistic.

 

Gharael has defeated Andorhal in 15 years with a great army and with griffins,and multiple GW, and suddenly The Warden of the dragon age come and won in 1 year?

Unless this AD being utterly weak and stupid compared to his siblings there is no valid justification to not see the warden as another Bioware snowflake.

AD are not so easily defeated.

Hell the warden kill even another Corypheus and his  disciples minions,as well as the children 

(Darkspawn abominations even more powerful than Ogre,than no one have seen until now)

where the Orlesian wardens failed badly and got killed

 

these are things of another world,that make me feel disconnected from the danger of the world,everything is a walk in the park both in DAO and DAI

 

I died a lot on those suicide missions. Reloading was required and different tactics were chosen. 

[TheOgre]

Not to interrupt this latest debate about Origins, but I want to say thanks to everyone in the thread.  I got my new video card installed today.  It runs circles around what my ATI was doing, and the game looking amazing.  I've probably got to do a little tweaking, but I'm averaging around 60 FPS with nearly maxed settings (I never turn up waters or shadows.)  It's quiet and the game even loads up much faster than it did before.

 

Thank you guys!  Inquisition looks better than ever, and your recommendations helped.  I'm going to enjoy it, because I won't be seeing any brand new games for quite some time.  <hugs>  

 

Enjoy your debate.  

 

 

Glad you got a brand new card! Was it the 970? I forgot which one you were looking at.

 

I love AMD's new cards myself but since I play Arma3 and require shadowplay for reporting offenders, I have to stick with Nvidia, which isn't a terrible sacrifice

[Grieving Natashina]

Glad you got a brand new card! Was it the 970? I forgot which one you were looking at.

 

I love AMD's new cards myself but since I play Arma3 and require shadowplay for reporting offenders, I have to stick with Nvidia, which isn't a terrible sacrifice

EVGA GTX 970, thanks to a combination of user recommendations here and some great ratings on sites like tomshardware.  Watching my computer blue screen after the first install was never fun, since it was looking for an ATI and found an Nvidia card instead.  It reasserted itself quickly though.  I had even made sure to download my graphic drivers a few days ago, so it was real easy to plug n go.  

 

I did a benchmark test of the game, after cranking up the settings as well as the program settings from Nvidia's control panel.  Avg 60, Min 50.    Now, if only my stupid Spoils pack wasn't bugging out, I'd be a happy camper.

[Kage]

One of the things that matter most to me in a RPG is the amount of story and content. I am including meaningful quests, not fetching.

Whatever feels like I am being told a story.

 

If you want to compare games, it is as easy as look into YouTube, since there are people who makes movies out of games.

 

Dragon Age Inquisition:

(6 hours)

 

The Witcher 3:

(Under construction, episode 1 is 1 hour already)

 

By the look of it, I think TW3 is going to double or triple the amount DAI has...

[Xetykins]

Yes, some crazy person uploaded a total of almost 14hrs of TW3 cut scenes. 6 hrs was the most I've seen for inquisition.

[KBomb]

Just finished the game and I got a very satisfying ending. This game is definitely my GotY and the best game I have played in a long time. I would definitely give it a 9.5/10. I am getting ready to load it up and play again. CDPR did an amazing job, but I never doubted they would do anything but.

If Bioware can just pick up a few core ideas from them, I have no doubt DA4 will blow some socks off.

[Gileadan]

I finished it a few days ago and it's definitely my GotY too. The effort that went into this game is just amazing.

 

And even a few days later, I still can't quite let go of it just yet. Every evening, I start it up at least for a bit, to wander Novigrad and Skellige a bit more, take in the sights, listen to the soundtrack and hope that maybe I missed a quest marker somewhere.

 

(I actually found one quest that way - Message from an Old Friend)

[Saphiron123]

I really enjoy the number of people who can be present or not present in the witcher 3 based on past decisions. Almost every branch in TW2 seems to have meaning.

[Elhanan]

Yes, some crazy person uploaded a total of almost 14hrs of TW3 cut scenes. 6 hrs was the most I've seen for inquisition.

This has been appearing for some time; might be a bit more than what was previously found:

https://www.youtube....vCrLzimoVyQlmt-

[Saphiron123]

This has been appearing for some time; might be a bit more than what was previously found:

https://www.youtube....vCrLzimoVyQlmt-

That's not all cut scenes or story though, most of it is just random gameplay like the hinterlands etc.

[correctamundo]

Not really true.  You can lose the landsmeet.  The only way to win if you lose the argument is a duel with Loghain.  Also not everything can go the Warden's way there.  Alistair will not work with Loghain no matter what you say. And if you declare yourself future Queen while being a nonhuman or mage, forget about it.

 

Yes of course they have you duel Loghain. And then Loghain dies. Like I wrote up there. As for other choices there is no fundamental difference there between the landsmeet or whwe. Well in the landsmeet you can skip form entirely whereas in Halamshiral you have to conform to the game at least a minimum.