15897 réponses à ce sujet

[Xetykins]

I would not know if it is already penalized or not, as I have helped them every time. But I oppose a flat rejection in the dialogue as the same effect is already included by failing to perform the quest; wasted zots.

It's not. Though, I kind of not expecting them to, but it's just a nice suggestion, not as an attack.

[KBomb]

It's not. Though, I kind of not expecting them to, but it's just a nice suggestion, not as an attack.

It's a great suggestion and one I hope they take to heart. Bioware seemed to have wanted to implement more reactive quests at one time, but for some reason changed their mind. I loved the original idea with Crestwood. Save the Keep or the village, with one falling due to your decision. Whether is was time or money, they switched game plan and I think the game felt thinned out for it.

Would have been nice to refuse, for example, the ram meat quest and later hear refugees discussing it and having your companions react to it or fail to fortify the area and have the refugee camp destroyed.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but power points seemed a poor motivation for doing many of the quests in the game. I would rather have that motivation sparked by consequence, rather than having dozens of useless power points by end game.

[correctamundo]

Well, neither power points nor influence is really a motivation to help the refugees as I see it. It is after all a rpg. But if you turn the inquisition into a bandit organisation you should suffer.

[Xetykins]

Well, neither power points nor influence is really a motivation to help the refugees as I see it. It is after all a rpg. But if you turn the inquisition into a bandit organisation you should suffer.

Agreed. That's why mortal or something equally dire of consequence, as I said on my other post would be better. Or as I've agreed with another poster.

Like playing ME, I try to do everything and specially all companion quest because I don't want them dying on me. That in itself is a big incentive for me to do menial jobs. Although angry sexy ban hammer is too much to pass :-)

[Elhanan]

Agreed. That's why mortal or something equally dire of consequence, as I said on my other post would be better. Or as I've agreed with another poster.

Like playing ME, I try to do everything and specially all companion quest because I don't want them dying on me. That in itself is a big incentive for me to do menial jobs. Although angry sexy ban hammer is too much to pass :-)

To clarify: support the idea of consequences, but oppose the inclusion of a rejection. If one does not wish to aid the refugees, then failing to do so could have a change in banter from them later.

[KBomb]

Well, neither power points nor influence is really a motivation to help the refugees as I see it. It is after all a rpg. But if you turn the inquisition into a bandit organisation you should suffer.

If this is directed to me, I never said that you shouldn't suffer. In fact, I think you should. That is the consequence I mentioned. However, failing to gather ram meat and refusal to waste Inquisition resources to build watch towers does not a bandit organization make. It may make you a ****, but not a bandit.

[Elhanan]

if one uses Power, XP, Influence, etc as a motivation for making choices, then that would seem to be on the Player; not the game.

In the ME series, I was captured by this myself in the dialogue, as it was rather important to go either Paragon or Renegade; a mix did not benefit the character, and it was my fault for allowing mechanics to dominate my initial RP. In NG+ sessions, I could choose a better set of responses that fit the personality I desired. But I much prefer other game mechanics to avoid this choice of extremes.

In SWTOR, this was not an issue, so taking the best choice for the Player was made much smoother. Same goes for DAI. The Player could choose to let any set of mechanics guide their choices, or simply RP as they wished. It was less of an issue.

[KBomb]

if one uses Power, XP, Influence, etc as a motivation for making choices, then that would seem to be on the Player; not the game.

In the ME series, I was captured by this myself in the dialogue, as it was rather important to go either Paragon or Renegade; a mix did not benefit the character, and it was my fault for allowing mechanics to dominate my initial RP. In NG+ sessions, I could choose a better set of responses that fit the personality I desired. But I much prefer other game mechanics to avoid this choice of extremes.

In SWTOR, this was not an issue, so taking the best choice for the Player was made much smoother. Same goes for DAI. The Player could choose to let any set of mechanics guide their choices, or simply RP as they wished. It was less of an issue.

There are no motivation beyond those. That's the point. If you wanted to go another route, you couldn't. If you don't do the ram meat, there is absolute silence about it. No NPC banters, no scathing words for the Inquisitor, no backlash. Nothing.

So, no. The player can't use any set of mechanics to make their choice because there aren't "any". It's influence and power, anything beyond that is headcanon because the game doesn't recognize your refusal of the quest as a gameplay mechanic. I don't want to have to headcanon consequences. I wanted them implemented in the game and the suggestion to include it is a normal want and a valid concern.

[Elhanan]

There are no motivation beyond those. That's the point. If you wanted to go another route, you couldn't. If you don't do the ram meat, there is absolute silence about it. No NPC banters, no scathing words for the Inquisitor, no backlash. Nothing.

So, no. The player can't use any set of mechanics to make their choice because there aren't "any". It's influence and power, anything beyond that is headcanon because the game doesn't recognize your refusal of the quest as a gameplay mechanic. I don't want to have to headcanon consequences. I wanted them implemented in the game and the suggestion to include it is a normal want and a valid concern.

If one uses RP as a motivation in gameplay, the results should not be the priority. If one does something kind for it's own sake, this is a highly different character trait than one that does it for rewards whatever they may be; mechanical or otherwise.

If the Player is seeking fame for their actions, as I do with my evil Mages, the motivations are far different than my honorable Inq's that simply wish to help the needy, even if the results are exactly the same. However, the kind-hearted Inq's should not require a reward; same goes for those wishing to skip it.

Another mechanic is not always required, though they are great to experience on occasion. There is not a need to add more banter, cut-scenes, and cost to the development of the game.

[coldwetn0se]

It's interesting how the rams meat quest gets brought up in regards to "rping" and motivation. Not saying that it is seen the same by all, which is obvious, but here was my take on this, and a few thoughts regarding what the DA franchise might look at, in regards to TW3. Sorry if this is long winded.

Regarding Motivation

We are told before we set out for the Hinterlands, that we should be making a presence for the Inquisition, helping where we can (which can influence the public), closing rifts (since the IQ is the only one capable of it, due to the mark), and finding and recruiting "agents" (which is all our PC is, at that time). After helping out at the crossroads, when trying to meet with Mother Giselle the first time, we get a cut scene with her. We are both shown and told what the general peasants are facing. After the cutscene finishes, Cassandra pipes-in about Corporal Vale heading up the Inquisition camp at the Crossroads, and that we should talk to him to find out what help they need. Going to Corporal Vale reveals that they are lacking on food, blankets and healers, and indicates who to speak to (or in the case of healers, where to go - i.e. Redcliffe) regarding these matters. End result, should you fulfill these quests, you gain influence from the people in the region (Mother Giselle points out in dialogue how much things have improved due to our efforts), and you gain agents under the leadership of Corporal Vale (though only Vale gets listed as an agent under Cullen's name in the WR).

So motivation, can be found just in what the game gives us, but a player can also choose to add further motivation, based on how they have painted their protagonist. Much of it may end up as headcanon, but that is something I crave from these types of games. I love having the wiggle room to add my own little side stories and motivations, to my PC's. That may not be everyone's cup of tea, and that is certainly fine. But I am grateful to have games that do allow this.

As for why someone may choose not to complete the quests (or even seek out Corporal Vale), it is certainly easy to imagine an Inquisitor who has "prioritized" certain matters. For them, a more pragmatic approach might make more sense. Setting up camps, getting the quartermasters horses for the troops, making the roads easier and safer to move troops through (i.e. stopping the skirmishing mages and Templars), and closing the rifts within the area.

Feedback for DA

I have now played TW3 and have very much enjoyed the game. I am happy to parrot others with some feedback regarding the following:

1) Connect the maps to the main story more effectively. The Hinterlands, Crestwood and The Western Approach, are the only three that did that with requirements to move the story forward. The Storm Coast did this to a slightly lesser degree, by putting both the retrieval of a companion and their personal quest, in said zone/map. And there is some reason (if you chose In Hushed Whispers), to venture to the Emerald Graves and Emprise du Lion (Cullen's string of quests that can help against Sampson). But, again, it isn't required.

2) Cinematics. I am one of those that doesn't wish for quite as many cut scenes as there are in TW3. I really didn't need up to two or more cut scenes for a Monster Contract. Simple reason being, is that most of the cut scenes didn't really offer anything. It was simply random person, says they need Geralt to slay or investigate something, and Geralt accepting and possibly haggling on a price. Generally, I just felt that it stretched out what was often a very short and easily fulfilled contract. I admit, for me, I wanted those to be a bit "speedier", considering the number of them, along with all the points of interest marks, on the map (which were more often than not monster nests, guarded treasure, and bandits).

However! I do agree that there should have been more cut scenes per zone, and they would have been well received if they were quest lines that tied into the main storyline. Even if the quest in question is short, punctuated. I also think that there should have been a cut scene for each of the Keep leaders (for Crestwood's Keep, Griffon Wing Keep, and Suledin's Keep). Having a chance for our PC's to get up close and personal with said Keep leaders, might make us feel more "attached" to said Keep and region. And give us more of a reason to return for quests. This would also lead to some quest receiving restructuring. Captain Rylen's quest list, I think was very well structured. The others should have been set up more akin to that. IMO.

Some addition of cut scenes (similar in presentation to what TW3 gave us), and the overall connectedness of zones/maps to the main story (again, TW3 did a great job with this), are the two main things I would love to see in the next DA or DAI DLC.

Again, sorry for lengthy post. Cheers!

[Ariella]

It's interesting how the rams meat quest gets brought up in regards to "rping" and motivation. Not saying that it is seen the same by all, which is obvious, but here was my take on this, and a few thoughts regarding what the DA franchise might look at, in regards to TW3. Sorry if this is long winded.

*snip*

I think I may have a heart attack... actual sensible constructive critique one the subject... I didn't think it was ever going to happen. In all seriousness, thank you for proving me wrong.

[KBomb]

If one uses RP as a motivation in gameplay, the results should not be the priority. If one does something kind for it's own sake, this is a highly different character trait than one that does it for rewards whatever they may be; mechanical or otherwise.

If the Player is seeking fame for their actions, as I do with my evil Mages, the motivations are far different than my honorable Inq's that simply wish to help the needy, even if the results are exactly the same. However, the kind-hearted Inq's should not require a reward; same goes for those wishing to skip it.

Another mechanic is not always required, though they are great to experience on occasion. There is not a need to add more banter, cut-scenes, and cost to the development of the game.

I am not going to debate motivations with you, we'll just end up running in circles. I already know how you feel and it's clear we disagree.  All I will say is having different levels of motivation and consequences help tremendously when considering replay value. I would like to see more motivation and consequence in side quests in DAI.

 

As for the second paragraph, TW3 has instances where you can deny reward, yet you can still carry out the quest. So, you aren't missing any content. There are quests that he can fail and that can come back to bite him. There are quests where doing the right thing isn't always beneficial and doing the wrong thing is sometimes the right way. You don't have to forgo the quest and miss content-- as you would if you decided to just not do the ram meat quest or any of the other numerous quests that have the same outcome, same reward, same motivations. This is what I would like to see for future DA games. I am curious as to why you and some others still come here if you believe the DA franchise is fine and need none of these suggestions.

 

And for the bolded, I 100% disagree. More banter and cutscenes are definitely worth the added cost to me, especially concerning quests, as I feel DAI lacks in both.

[Elhanan]

Motivation is determined by the Player; not the game.

[KBomb]

Motivation is determined by the Player; not the game.

That is entirely your opinion and you're welcome to it.

[SnakeCode]

I think I may have a heart attack... actual sensible constructive critique one the subject... I didn't think it was ever going to happen. In all seriousness, thank you for proving me wrong.

 

 

You haven't been reading the thread properly then. There have been many posters who gave constructive feedback regarding what the next DA can learn from TW3, just look at KBomb's posts on this very page. Whether you find anyone else's feedback "sensible" or not is entirely up to you.

[Rawgrim]

Motivation is determined by the Player; not the game.

 

Only if the game actually has some in-game options to back up said motivation. Headcanon is one thing, but it doesn't really work if the game contradicts it all the time.

[Ariella]

You haven't been reading the thread properly then. There have been many posters who gave constructive feedback regarding what the next DA can learn from TW3, just look at KBomb's posts on this very page. Whether you find anyone else's feedback "sensible" or not is entirely up to you.

Oh I have been reading it just fine. The difference between the post I commented on and every other was it was actually well balanced rather than pretending to be.

[Elhanan]

Only if the game actually has some in-game options to back up said motivation. Headcanon is one thing, but it doesn't really work if the game contradicts it all the time.

Has nothing to do with head canon; has to do with Roleplaying. The game has implemented rewards, penalties, and nothing as results for tasks, but it is the Player that assigns the motivation for that specific PC as to what action to perform.

Some may select a choice completely independent of the results, and others may govern their choices based entirely upon them. Both type of approaches are motivated by the Player, and the game simply implements the tasks and results. And as an option is to skip the task, this would apparently be something apart from the game itself as material generally is not implemented to be missed , and is seemingly motivated by the Player.

[Servo to the bitter end]

I feel like I could probably go back a hundred pages and stumble upon roughly the same conversation that's going on right now.

[KBomb]

Oh I have been reading it just fine. The difference between the post I commented on and every other was it was actually well balanced rather than pretending to be.

Well, that's a bit rude.

[Ariella]

I feel like I could probably go back a hundred pages and stumble upon roughly the same conversation that's going on right now.

I said before, it's a rousing chorus of "I Henry the Eight, I am" or "This is the Song that Never Ends", or maybe "Harvey the Wonder Hamster"... Not sure which

[BioWareMod01]

Hello everyone. Let's keep it civil in here. Thank you.

[KBomb]

I said before, it's a rousing chorus of "I Henry the Eight, I am" or "This is the Song that Never Ends", or maybe "Harvey the Wonder Hamster"... Not sure which

Then why read it and participate? It's a pretty large thread and if you have been popping in reading every post, seems a waste of your time if all the posts and replies are the same. If nothing is to be gained, might want to spend your time hanging out in a thread that you feel is balanced and more productive of your time.

I hope you can find a thread that suits you. In the meantime, do you think there is anything that DAI can benefit from TW3?

[TheOgre]

I tried to find something not really flamebaity and realized it'd only fan more so instead I'd like everyone to be distracted real quick by a series of cute puppies and kittens gifs.

 

 

Now where did I leave the.. Oh no, don't drink them they are innocent!

 

[RINNZ]

*heartattack*
Bruh