15897 réponses à ce sujet

[Rawgrim]

It depends if we are going by sale or reception. I would say Jade Empire and Neverwinter Nights make the list aswell. 

 

Those two had an ok reception yes. But I wouldn't cal them huge successes.

[SnakeCode]

One thing I think Bioware could learn from TW3 is the use of facial expressions. Displaying the emotions characters are feeling in a non-verbal manner. Inquisition had this to an extent, but some emotions worked better than others and characters faces were mostly really wooden. CDPR seems to have really mastered this in TW3 though. The look of awkward sadness on Geralt and Triss's faces when you first see each other again  (and the goodbye,) the looks of exasperation and derision whenever Dandelion does something stupid. Geralt's looks of happiness and relief that quickly fades to pure sadness and despair at the end of the battle of Kaer Morhen. Or his looks of pain and anguish when he first finds Ciri.

 

Truly masterful work and makes the game a much more emotional experience. I'd love to see this level of detail in DA4.

[Dreadstruck]

One thing I think Bioware could learn from TW3 is the use of facial expressions. Displaying the emotions characters are feeling in a non-verbal manner. Inquisition had this to an extent, but some emotions worked better than others and characters faces were mostly really wooden. CDPR seems to have really mastered this in TW3 though. The look of awkward sadness on Geralt and Triss's faces when you first see each other again  (and the goodbye,) the looks of exasperation and derision whenever Dandelion does something stupid. Geralt's looks of happiness and relif that quickly fades to pure sadness and despair at the end of the battle of Kaer Morhen. Or his looks of pain and anguish when he first finds Ciri.

 

Truly masterful work and makes the game a much more emotional experience. I'd love to see this level of detail in DA4.

 

Agreed about the facial expressions.

 

For example at the beginning of the game, when you don't accept money from Bram (saying he was in need, and you don't need any money), Vesemir glances at you and gives you a rather funny look (with him being the old school Witcher and all that). That eye movement and head movement just looked so natural.

 

Also, a lot of subtle eye movement, like this (no spoilers, kinda). Loved it. Well, I mean I didn't love watching Ciri cry, but you know what I mean.

[KilrB]

Good video, but one of the comments was abit insulting and elitist. "This is the bed that Bioware made, now they can sleep in it. I hope that they are happy with their NEW fanbase. As I've posted their before, the new fanbase is bunch of people that don't know old Bioware."

 

Knowing the old Bioware is not a requirement to enjoy their new games and the same for old fans that actually do enjoy their new games. Also to point out that CDRP has made 3 games, 2 of which i consider amazing, one that is amazing-ish. While Bioware has made about 13 - 15 hugely successfull RPG's, some which had great extensions in form of expansions and dlc. And most of these games i consider to be work of art. At some point you are gonna hit that bump in the road.

 

Sometimes i feel like we fans think we know the studio better than the people that actually run it. I think Ray and Greg left it in a poor state with selling the company to EA. I am not hating on Ray and Greg, they have both done amazing things for western RPG's. The sale however was handled rather poorly and had clear results in quality of the coming games under EA. Both the vision and themes were off and at the reduced development time did not help. I don't mind publishers buying developers aslong as they give them the required time to finish their vision for a product. EA has gotten better. Now with both DA:i and now ME:A having sufficient development time to get back to form. DA:I is not up there with the classics, but it was a huge step in the right direction in many ways, and i think the next game will be even better. If we can get the same with ME:A we will see that it is working and that EA finally understands what Bioware needs. 

 

Also remember that some day when CDRP has made like 10 games with the quality of the Witcher series, they will hit a snag, because every developer does and alot of fans will be judging and questioning the direction of the studio. It will be very interesting to see how they will handle that situation, when the time comes.

 

Sorry for the rant, just came to me. 

 

They hit a "bump in the road" with DA2.

 

This time they've drove off a bridge ...

[GithCheater]

They hit a "bump in the road" with DA2.

 

This time they've drove off a bridge ...

Really?  I see the opposite

[Torgette]

Really?  I see the opposite

 

Yeah, I remember people being ****ed about DA2, I was one of them - the game was a disaster outside of the BSN bubble at least.

[Akrabra]

Also, a lot of subtle eye movement, like this (no spoilers, kinda). Loved it. Well, I mean I didn't love watching Ciri cry, but you know what I mean.

I agree, some of the cinematics in TW3 were carried on just the facial expressions, and they were so intense and beautifully done. Great work on show not tell. 

They hit a "bump in the road" with DA2.

 

This time they've drove off a bridge ...

I have to disagree there. DA:I was getting the series back on track and trying to fix the mess that was DA:II. Not saying i dislike DA:II or anything, it is a fun popcorn game. But DA:I has depth and character. 

[TheOgre]

Yeah, I remember people being ****ed about DA2, I was one of them - the game was a disaster outside of the BSN bubble at least.

 

It was mega rushed, but I liked it more than DAI.

[Realmzmaster]

Whether I agree with the video or not everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. I take exception to statements like this

 

This is the bed that Bioware made, now they can sleep in it. I hope that they are happy with their NEW fanbase. As I've posted their before, the new fanbase is bunch of people that don't know old Bioware."

 

I know the so-called old Bioware extremely well. I started with their first game Shattered Steel. So that makes me part of the old fanbase. I like DAI which makes me also part of the so-called new fanbase. Statements like this makes it seem that all the old fanbase got up and left even though I believe quite a few of us are still here.

[TheOgre]

Whether I agree with the video or not everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. I take exception to statements like this

 

This is the bed that Bioware made, now they can sleep in it. I hope that they are happy with their NEW fanbase. As I've posted their before, the new fanbase is bunch of people that don't know old Bioware."

 

I know the so-called old Bioware extremely well. I started with their first game Shattered Steel. So that makes me part of the old fanbase. I like DAI which makes me also part of the so-called new fanbase. Statements like this makes it seem that all the old fanbase got up and left even though I believe quite a few of us are still here.

 

I didn't agree with that phras either but he did offer spot on analysis. Hyperbole was used yes, but general consensus is that the side quests, and character interactions were limited.

[midnight tea]

I agree, some of the cinematics in TW3 were carried on just the facial expressions, and they were so intense and beautifully done. Great work on show not tell.

 

I disagree here - they do a lot to hide that they can't pull anything aside from subtler expressions. For example, the final encounter with Whoreson was pretty ruined for me, because of how hilarious Geralt looked when he was supposed to look furious. Sorry, but while DAI didn't nail facial animations either, the faces themselves are able to convey more (lipsynch's a tad better too. No middle-mouth/lockjaw speaking) - so much better in fact, that they don't avoid very intense closeups, which Witcher itself avoids pretty regularly.

 

I'm in the middle of most intense emotional string-pullers in game right now and even here I keep noticing how often they construct scenes to NOT SHOW faces - oftentimes they're obscured by hair, or by cadre or camera angle, sometimes even shadows (like the scene where Baron mourns his unborn child). That's not to say they avoid it entirely or incapable of using them effectively (at least those that can be pulled), but they rather prefer to avoid focusing on facial animations and focus on (pretty nice) body language or (sometimes curious) camera work.

 

(speaking of cutscenes... in Kaer Morhen Geralt and Yen have the most bizarre sex scene ever. I have no clue what someone thought when they've intersected it with wolves chasing the deer.... WTH was that all about? What's especially weird is that I don' think that the animation is... uh, finished? The wolves are well animated, but the deer runs and looks as if it was done by a first-grader)

[KBomb]

Agreed about the facial expressions.

 

For example at the beginning of the game, when you don't accept money from Bram (saying he was in need, and you don't need any money), Vesemir glances at you and gives you a rather funny look (with him being the old school Witcher and all that). That eye movement and head movement just looked so natural.

 

Also, a lot of subtle eye movement, like this (no spoilers, kinda). Loved it. Well, I mean I didn't love watching Ciri cry, but you know what I mean.

Agree 100%. There are many examples I could give, but the ones that stand out to me are....

 

Spoiler

When Ciri, Geralt and Yen are at Avallac'h's lab and that ****** she-elf is being a total **** to Ciri and her face shows the embarrassment and pain of it, also when her and Geralt destroy the lab. Their facial expressions are amazing, you can see the mischief in them, even Yennifer's. The entire battle at Kaer Morhen has a lot of great expressions by characters.The scene where Geralt is just beating the crap out of Whoreson Junior is pretty awesome, too. His fury is so obvious. My favorite though, is at Vesemir's funeral and when Geralt thinks Ciri is dead.

 

That's not counting the plethora of facial expressions during side missions when Geralt is amused, surprised or just sickened by something he sees. I'm no professional "artist", but these seem pretty amazing...

 

Spoiler

 

[img]http://i.imgur.com/u...l.jpg[img][img]

 

[img]http://i.imgur.com/E...Og.jpg[img][img

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheOgre]

.. Sera was written to have the personality of a first grader..

[KBomb]

.. Sera was written to have the personality of a first grader..

While I agree with you, Ogre.... am I missing something in this reply?  

[Realmzmaster]

I didn't agree with that phras either but he did offer spot on analysis. Hyperbole was used yes, but general consensus is that the side quests, and character interactions were limited.

 

I have no problem with the analysis. I do not agree with some of it. Hyperbole used in an analysis I do have a problem with. Hyperbole I find most of the time distracts from the message presented.

[TheOgre]

While I agree with you, Ogre.... am I missing something in this reply?

I was trying to be silly.. Since I didn't have anything constructive to reply to midnights post I compared Seras personality to midnights comment about the gazelle animation during Yen and Geralts scene hahaha

Upon further review.. Deer.. Not gazelle..

(speaking of cutscenes... in Kaer Morhen Geralt and Yen have the most bizarre sex scene ever. I have no clue what someone thought when they've intersected it with wolves chasing the deer.... WTH was that all about? What's especially weird is that I don' think that the animation is... uh, finished? The wolves are well animated, but the deer runs and looks as if it was done by a first-grader)

[KBomb]

I was trying to be silly.. Since I didn't have anything constructive to reply to midnights post I compared Seras personality to midnights comment about the gazelle animation during Yen and Geralts scene hahaha

Ah, I got ya. was wondering if maybe you posted in the wrong thread... As I have done on occasion.

[GreyWarden_Smith]

I think the Witcher 3 had more scenes that made me "feel". I loved the bringing back old character especially 

Spoiler

Letho

. The side-content was so much better than Dragon age even the treasure hunts were a lot fun and didn't feel like a chore & the game felt more alive to me with random quest givers. the problem with dragon age is that it areas are not true open-world but not corridor/dungeon based so they don't get the benefit of either design IMO.

 

I loved that ending determined by your decisions and your relationship with Ciri and not telegraphed like Dragon age.

 

Also good camera angle when you talk to people I don't know why Bioware were so into this "walking away from convo" & free camera  normally when I talk to someone I want to talk them and see there reactions to my comments why just make it a button press to leave convo quickly.

 

This sounds quite negative on Dragon Age but the truth is I do really enjoy & love the game but the Witcher 3 is just better IMO. I am currently doing my second playthrough of the Witcher 3 on a higher difficulty.

[TheOgre]

Spoiler

I went ahead and spoiled witcher 2 for myself since I've been sticking to my three play through pledge of witcher 1. I liked his reasoning for what he did despite putting Geralts triss in danger. I was intrigued when I found out he actually bests Geralt and repays a kindness from long ago Geralt showed to him. Needless to say I'm glad they gave us the option to spare him.

@poster above

[correctamundo]

Whether I agree with the video or not everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. I take exception to statements like this

 

This is the bed that Bioware made, now they can sleep in it. I hope that they are happy with their NEW fanbase. As I've posted their before, the new fanbase is bunch of people that don't know old Bioware."

 

I know the so-called old Bioware extremely well. I started with their first game Shattered Steel. So that makes me part of the old fanbase. I like DAI which makes me also part of the so-called new fanbase. Statements like this makes it seem that all the old fanbase got up and left even though I believe quite a few of us are still here.

 

Yes, reading that comment just saved me from wasting some 20 minutes of my life. =)

[TheOgre]

I'll be happy to timestamp the arguments he made in the video and save the people the 20 minutes instead heh. You'd all love that, right?

[correctamundo]

I'll be happy to timestamp the arguments he made in the video and save the people the 20 minutes instead heh. You'd all love that, right?

 

But still, we have been around this all a few times already. Nothing new has come out of this thread in a while. Some people don't like how BW built their world up others do. Some people need to have gore in their faces to "feel" others don't. I am in my second DAI playthrough and it is even better than the first. I am finding new things all the time. My TW3 playthrough ground to a halt on Skellige. I will have to pick it up later, when I'm in the mood. Anyway I abhor elitism and his comment reeks of it. Add hyperbole to that and it is just a waste of time.

[TheOgre]

I consider myself to be biased but I don't think dai was horrendous I think it was better than a lot of the other rpgs I played so far. Just a DAO fan boy.

When I heard that comment I kind of rolled my eyes so I figured I'd jot down and tldr his argument. To me he had some interesting points especially about showing us how horrendous people can be toward elves per se. We could have come across a pair of human soldiers readying to kill off a few elves because another elf aided the venitori. Deciding to take their word on it or investigating whether the elves in question had aided venitori. You could know whether they had through evidence and still let the humans do as they please, order them to release the elves, or making the call on the spot without said evidence. That
wasn't his example so if you found it poor don't blame him. but they insist that elves are hated or discriminated against without actually showing us. He did say that. We had to take their word for that racism exists in dragon age inquisition.

His video is pretty hard on dai overall, so if I did make a list of arguments made from the video in a tldr with time stamps, it'll be heavily modified to be less well, offensive. Heh.

[KBomb]

I consider myself to be biased but I don't think dai was horrendous I think it was better than a lot of the other rpgs I played so far. Just a DAO fan boy.

When I heard that comment I kind of rolled my eyes so I figured I'd jot down and tldr his argument. To me he had some interesting points especially about showing us how horrendous people can be toward elves per se. We could have come across a pair of human soldiers readying to kill off a few elves because another elf aided the venitori. Deciding to take their word on it or investigating whether the elves in question had aided venitori. You could know whether they had through evidence and still let the humans do as they please, order them to release the elves, or making the call on the spot without said evidence. That
wasn't his example so if you found it poor don't blame him. but they insist that elves are hated or discriminated against without actually showing us. He did say that. We had to take their word for that racism exists in dragon age inquisition.

His video is pretty hard on dai overall, so if I did make a list of arguments made from the video in a tldr with time stamps, it'll be heavily modified to be less well, offensive. Heh.

I'd actually appreciate it if you made a list of his arguments. The subtitles on Youtube leave a lot to be desired and more likely than not, completely wrong.

[correctamundo]

I consider myself to be biased but I don't think dai was horrendous I think it was better than a lot of the other rpgs I played so far. Just a DAO fan boy.

When I heard that comment I kind of rolled my eyes so I figured I'd jot down and tldr his argument. To me he had some interesting points especially about showing us how horrendous people can be toward elves per se. We could have come across a pair of human soldiers readying to kill off a few elves because another elf aided the venitori. Deciding to take their word on it or investigating whether the elves in question had aided venitori. You could know whether they had through evidence and still let the humans do as they please, order them to release the elves, or making the call on the spot without said evidence. That
wasn't his example so if you found it poor don't blame him. but they insist that elves are hated or discriminated against without actually showing us. He did say that. We had to take their word for that racism exists in dragon age inquisition.

His video is pretty hard on dai overall, so if I did make a list of arguments made from the video in a tldr with time stamps, it'll be heavily modified to be less well, offensive. Heh.

 

Your example is very good. I'll take it. And I do like how they did those things in TW3. But I also very much like how BW managed to set the mood with something as small and seemingly insignificant as a letter. So in a way BW should have combined the methods better. However Laidlaw (I think it was) commented on that and it would have meant far fewer codex entries.