Sounds like splitting hairs to me. Nowhere did I state that a Witcher clone is what's needed for Bioware, though that is obviously how many knee-jerkingly interpreted this thread. To "be more like" one thing that does what you're trying to do, only better, IS learning from it.
I think the OP was trying to hint at "learning some things" from Witcher.. Which is strange as it hasn't yet been out (until today). But still, am I on the right ball?
I think the OP was trying to hint at "learning some things" from Witcher.. Which is strange as it hasn't yet been out (until today). But still, am I on the right ball?
While the jabs are unnecessary, in my opinion, I do like that the OP is actually providing examples though I think his feedback would be improved if he would elaborate further on these examples by providing more in-depth examples from "Witcher 3" because as it stands, there are no examples provided as to how the OP thinks CD Projekt Red has done these aspects better only that the OP thinks that they have.
While the jabs are unnecessary, in my opinion, I do like that the OP is actually providing examples though I think his feedback would be improved if he would elaborate further on these examples by providing more in-depth examples from "Witcher 3" because as it stands, there are no examples provided as to how the OP thinks CD Projekt Red has done these aspects better only that the OP thinks that they have.
Trust me, I know a lot about taking jabs on the BSN from DAI apologists. It's really annoying when others insult the intelligence of another because they get frustrated when someone either does not get their post or is stubborn.
Trust me, I know a lot about taking jabs on the BSN from DAI apologists. It's really annoying when others insult the intelligence of another because they get frustrated when someone either does not get their post or is stubborn.
Which is why I was trying to insult the tone that some people have taken, and not the idea that the DA team could take notes from CDPR's Witcher team. If there is anything one RPG could learn from another to benefit both, I think that might help some of the rut many games have been stuck in.
I find it insulting when I've been told anyone is not a "real RPG fan" if they dare enjoy Dragon Age: Inquisition. Which I had read in this thread before, and in others. I've seen people being told by posters before, "Oh, you like DA:I? Well, that's your first BioWare game, you just don't know any better."
"Chocolate was so much better back 6 years ago, so you just like the crappy chocolate now." C'mon guys, knock it off. 
That's what I was making fun of and that's what I find childish, not if someone thinks a company did something better than the other.
For example, I've heard from TW fans that the game did a lot better job of making player choice feel organic between games. That also while there was a lot of choice, it wasn't so much that the TW devs were starting to lose track. This was a criticism towards DA:I, even though the Keep system helps. One that I largely agree with, to be honest. Set protagonist or not, I felt that there was some suggestions that would help with DA.
Which is why I was trying to insult the tone that some people have taken, and not the idea that the DA team could take notes from CDPR's Witcher team. If there is anything one RPG could learn from another to benefit both, I think that might help some of the rut many games have been stuck in.
I find it insulting when I've been told anyone is not a "real RPG fan" if they dare enjoy Dragon Age: Inquisition. Which I had read in this thread before, and in others. I've seen people being told by posters before, "Oh, you like DA:I? Well, that's your first BioWare game, you just don't know any better."
"Chocolate was so much better back 6 years ago, so you just like the crappy chocolate now." C'mon guys, knock it off.
That's what I was making fun of and that's what I find childish, not if someone thinks a company did something better than the other.
For example, I've heard from TW fans that the game did a lot better job of making player choice feel organic between games. That also while there was a lot of choice, it wasn't so much that the TW devs were starting to lose track. This was a criticism towards DA:I, even though the Keep system helps. One that I largely agree with, to be honest. Set protagonist or not, I felt that there was some suggestions that would help with DA.
So which suggestions would you highlight to BW?
Sounds like splitting hairs to me. Nowhere did I state that a Witcher clone is what's needed for Bioware, though that is obviously how many knee-jerkingly interpreted this thread. To "be more like" one thing that does what you're trying to do, only better, IS learning from it.
Well since nobody here has played The Witcher 3, it's kind of hard to argue over anything specific other than concepts and that invites those kinds of posts.
Trust me, I know a lot about taking jabs on the BSN from DAI apologists. It's really annoying when others insult the intelligence of another because they get frustrated when someone either does not get their post or is stubborn.
I think you may have misunderstood me; I was not accusing you of taking jabs but that the ones I consider the OP posting like "putting this game to shame" mostly because I see them as unnecessary when the goal is constructive criticism and I consider the OP's intent as being providing constructive feedback especially since OP is providing examples of what OP considers was done better in "Witcher 3" and could be improved in "Dragon Age".
People have their right to express their opinions on the forums as long as they do not do so in a way that violates the forum rules and I am glad for that as it provides the oppertunity for many to provide perspectives and opinions in regards to something whether or not they liked it and discuss it. I disliked the time after the game's release because I felt things were so hostile that it was difficult to voice an opinion regardless of what that opinion was and there was some absolutely disgusting threads and posts directed at people. I am glad that we are able to have discussions now where that is not a common thing.
Perhaps that is why I see the OP's above quote as a jab; because it reminds me, even if not intentionally or as bad, of some of the comments and threads I saw back then.
So which suggestions would you highlight to BW?
Okay, for instance: Don't give the player choices that aren't going to mean much. For example, the mage or elf boon in DA:O. That was presented as something that would have an impact on future games. Instead, due to understandable reasons, the devs handwaved in a reason. Which is fine, but I don't think it should have been offered in the first place if they weren't going to stick with it for any future game.
Either the DA devs didn't plan for a series very well, or they had planned on the reward not sticking. From what I was told from TW fans, their devs largely avoid that. If they can't follow through with a possible choice and do it well for the player for the next game, they just cut it out early. Before the game comes out early. I don't know if it's because TW was planned from the start as a set series of games.
So far, they also haven't allowed things like any possible writer changes have a deep impact on the story. An example I was given was the dropped dark energy plot from ME. It was built up quite heavily, yet completely left unmentioned in ME3 due to the person behind the idea leaving the company. Fans of TW have stated that so far CDPR doesn't allow things like that to happen. Not the writers possibly getting moved to other projects, but they haven't built up a rather significant part of the overall plot only to drop it in between games. So BioWare writers might want to work more as a group than as an individual in case they have a change of staff. That way certain plot elements like dark energy wouldn't be dropped so unceremoniously.
That's a couple of the suggestions I've read, and those I can agree with. 
The blood, sex, gore, ect ect is a case of personal taste and something I don't find as useful for me personally as suggestions like that one does. This is of course based on the previous two Witcher games, and not the third. That's just what I've been told so far.
Which is why I was trying to insult the tone that some people have taken, and not the idea that the DA team could take notes from CDPR's Witcher team. If there is anything one RPG could learn from another to benefit both, I think that might help some of the rut many games have been stuck in.
I find it insulting when I've been told anyone is not a "real RPG fan" if they dare enjoy Dragon Age: Inquisition. Which I had read in this thread before, and in others. I've seen people being told by posters before, "Oh, you like DA:I? Well, that's your first BioWare game, you just don't know any better."
"Chocolate was so much better back 6 years ago, so you just like the crappy chocolate now." C'mon guys, knock it off.
That's what I was making fun of and that's what I find childish, not if someone thinks a company did something better than the other.
For example, I've heard from TW fans that the game did a lot better job of making player choice feel organic between games. That also while there was a lot of choice, it wasn't so much that the TW devs were starting to lose track. This was a criticism towards DA:I, even though the Keep system helps. One that I largely agree with, to be honest. Set protagonist or not, I felt that there was some suggestions that would help with DA.
Some things I'd really hope never makes it into DA4 from TW2 -- A narrator -- Maybe if it were Varric but otherwise, no, listening to that narrator I thought I was watching a cartoon on a Saturday (I do that sometimes, STILL)
I make a lot of QQ posts about DAI, but I should try to at least add in some positives I hope continues. I hope that EA picks and chooses carefully the next time they do become inspired by other companies. Beautiful environments that feel void of meaning (Crestwood was perhaps the greatest zone questline I've ever done in a DA series however.. Want more of that). Not sure if TW2 has anything like that, but I'll struggle through TW1 somehow, and then play TW2, and then see if TW3 is worth the $ for me through reviews and lets plays. I hope that there is a Crestwood in the TW series 
I think you may have misunderstood me; I was not accusing you of taking jabs but that the ones I consider the OP posting like "putting this game to shame" mostly because I see them as unnecessary when the goal is constructive criticism and I consider the OP's intent as being providing constructive feedback especially since OP is providing examples of what OP considers was done better in "Witcher 3" and could be improved in "Dragon Age".
People have their right to express their opinions on the forums as long as they do not do so in a way that violates the forum rules and I am glad for that as it provides the oppertunity for many to provide perspectives and opinions in regards to something whether or not they liked it and discuss it. I disliked the time after the game's release because I felt things were so hostile that it was difficult to voice an opinion regardless of what that opinion was and there was some absolutely disgusting threads and posts directed at people. I am glad that we are able to have discussions now where that is not a common thing.
Perhaps that is why I see the OP's above quote as a jab; because it reminds me, even if not intentionally or as bad, of some of the comments and threads I saw back then.
your right, I completely misread your post. I need more caffeine, and more attention next time I post.
Well, The Witcher 2 mainly avoided it by not bothering to make any choices from 1 important, and indeed they totally retconned any player that romances Shani instead of Triss in 1.
Maybe TW3 does better, but my impression from 2 was that in terms of C&C the games were not even trying for a continuous world. I did hear a thing or two about TW3 that's more promising in that regard.
I gotta be honest, I know one of the reasons why I couldn't get through TW1 was the starting area. I know that the DA team had the same idea with the Fallow Mire, but they kept the zone pretty short and linear. I know that the Hinterlands can feel like a slog, but at least I can walk in the water and not get a bunch of grey level mobs trying to give me death by a 1000 papercuts.
TW's first area was like that, only huge with a bigger respawn rate. It wasn't hard, it was annoying as hell. I've heard the sequel is better, and that TW picks up after the nymph part. Between that and some of the positive reviews from some of the more polite TW fans have almost convinced me to grit my teeth and slog through that awful starting zone. I prefer to start with the first game of any series for the world building, so I've gotta give TW1 another chance if I want to try the rest of the series.
By the way, nudity is fine, but green mossy pubic hair? I see how it makes sense, but still... 
Well, The Witcher 2 mainly avoided it by not bothering to make any choices from 1 import ant, and indeed they totally retconned any player that romances Shani instead of Triss in 1.
Maybe TW3 does better, by my impression from 2 was that in terms of C&C the games were not even trying for a continuous world. I did hear a thing or two about TW3 that's more promising in that regard.
This is the more balanced feedback I was hoping for. I'm trying to talk to all sides of the fanbase, and not just the most devout players. Thank you, my favorite old school JRPG fan. 
Well, The Witcher 2 mainly avoided it by not bothering to make any choices from 1 import ant, and indeed they totally retconned any player that romances Shani instead of Triss in 1.
Maybe TW3 does better, by my impression from 2 was that in terms of C&C the games were not even trying for a continuous world. I did hear a thing or two about TW3 that's more promising in that regard.
:/ So they forced a romance on the PC? hehehe.. Oh, that's not fun to hear.
:/ So they forced a romance on the PC? hehehe.. Oh, that's not fun to hear.
Picture if Bioware did that, forum would be blowing up
Picture if Bioware did that, forum would be blowing up
My warden, suddenly instead of in a love relationship with Morrigan, in DA2 somehow it's canon that Leliana is my character's love? Oh you'd bet I'd rage.
Picture if Bioware did that, forum would be blowing up
Forum, nothing. Could you imagine the game news?
"BioWare's lack of player choice: Sorry everyone, they are choosing your LI. Epic fail!"
Edit: I can hear the dwarven Town Crier's voice for this.
Forum, nothing. Could you imagine the game news?
"BioWare's lack of player choice: Sorry everyone, they are choosing your LI."
And all the people who are excited for Canonized said love interest.. "Stop being so upset.." 
And all the people who are excited for Canonized said love interest.. "Stop being so upset.."
With the more moderate posters going, "I don't mind it, but I can understand why they are being upset." We can predict this far too well already. 
I don't want to sound harsh, but generally speaking my issue with player-created things is they aren't likely to match an author or someone whose job it is to make compelling narratives or characters.
I know people really like for example transmogrification in WoW but I'll be ****ed if 98% of the outfits you see were just like ugh.
I feel like the choices are mostly illusory though, you have set character options, set path, set all kinds of things.
I mean is being a lizard thief, a norse warrior, or a dark elf mage mean anything in Skyrim? You are still going to complete the same quest to murder the thousands of bandits roaming the countryside, loot all their possessions, and then sell it all for gold. The only thing that changes is what you look like while doing it.
Am I ? I don't play that way. For me, my character is different every time. Am I going to be a lizard thief? Sure but it does change how people react to me (Sure, only a little but it's nice.) Who am I going to marry if anyone? Which factions shall I join and support or destroy (I also have mods that allow me to destroy any faction I choose). Am I going to take the power offered by becoming a vampire or hunt all of them down? Am I going to destroy the dragon that taught me important lessons or am I going to let him live? Do I treat people with kindness or am I a dick? Even worse do I choose to slaughter absolutely everyone I see on sight.
Even with all of those options I also have an entire story for this character going on in my head. How is she really reacting to things? What is she thinking during this portion of the adventure? Why is she choosing this armour over that one, how did she learn what she knows, why was she crossing the border (or any of the other starts I have with the alternate start mod)
Even when I had no mods and was playing on the xbox I still created an entire story in my head. I can't do that for a character that already has a personality. You know why Geralt chooses choice A or choice B. Yeah, you get to pick but both fit his personality. You know why he says this to that guy. You know why he's personally going on this mission to rescue the damsel. You can't build that for him, it's already there.
The witcher games are fun in their own regard but I will choose a game in which the protagonist is mine every time. I don't feel that the choices are illusionary in Bioware games, I feel that they're meaningful.
I also didn't find the inquisitor to be boring however but that's because there's more going on in my head for her than what's presented on the screen. (And I truly do believe that the american voice actress is the best of the lot.)
The witcher is the witcher and Dragon age is Dragon age. Skyrim is Skyrim and it should all stay that way. Dragon age trying to emulate skyrim was a mistake in a lot of regards. In the end Bioware does what it does, create meaningful characters and a story you can truly immerse yourself in. CDPR does what it does by bringing to life the world in a novel series and helping those characters find their voices in a new medium. They're both great at what they do.
@Natashina
who would pick someone besides Triss though?
who would pick someone besides Triss though?
Yennifer > 
I picked Shani. Lol.who would pick someone besides Triss though?
Meh. I prefer redheads, and Triss over YenYennifer >
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