15875 réponses à ce sujet

[chance52]

He was a drunk abuser who beat her up in front of their daughter. Of course she didn't want to have his child.

Anyway, to me they were both equally bad.

 

 

This is the only way to look at the entire quest chain without writing a novel length response.  You peel this onion of this story and you find there is plenty of blame on both sides, for every evil act on one side, you later find out there was an equal evil act on the other side.  This is a family that tore itself apart little by little.

 

And the 2 children are the ones that suffer the most for their parents acts.

[nici2412]

I think people here are also quick to dismiss the psychological impact of being a battered woman or anyone who has been in a relationship with an alcoholic. This also wasn't a time period where there were battered women's shelters or even anywhere Anna could go for help. Where could she go? One of the Barons own men? What really would her options be outside living a life of permanent misery?

And you are dismissing the psychological impact of the war on the baron. He had to regulary experience the cruelty of the war and then came home to find his wife cheating on him while he risks his life to feed his family.

[panzerwzh]

Again emotional accusations based on selective and falsified information. SJW never changes.

[London]

SJW. SJW.

[Xetykins]

Aw c'mon lets be nice. I think London just wants to know how the beating started. He's not far in the game yet.

[line_genrou]

And you are dismissing the psychological impact of the war on the baron. He had to regulary experience the cruelty of the war and then came home to find his wife cheating on him while he risks his life to feed his family.

 

What's your point? You think she is completely to blame while he is the victim, is that it? She deserved the beating?

To me it's obvious they were both awful and the game tries to make it clear, even with his daughter hating him in the end. Hell, even the Baron admitted he is also to blame and drove his loved ones away.

[London]

Also the alcoholism.

[panzerwzh]

Aw c'mon lets be nice. I think London just wants to know how the beating started. He's not far in the game yet.

That's the problem, if one has not experienced the whole story whats the point to rush into a conclusion? All those emotional accusations based on selective or incomplete information is simply wasting everybody's time really.

[zyntifox]

I think people here are also quick to dismiss the psychological impact of being a battered woman or anyone who has been in a relationship with an alcoholic. This also wasn't a time period where there were battered women's shelters or even anywhere Anna could go for help. Where could she go? One of the Barons own men? What really would her options be outside living a life of permanent misery?

And i think people are quick to dismiss the psychological trauma caused by a cheating spouse. I know, i've been through it. What's my point? Like you, i have no point.

[nici2412]

From what little I've seen was the beating happened after the baron killed her lover and she tried to kill him. I might be misremembering it though.

As far as I remember the events went like this:

- Baron fights for Temeria agaianst Nilfgaard, comes home and finds his wife regulary cheating on him

- he kills her lover

- From then on Anna starts to hate him and tries to provoke him whenever she can

- She attacks him with a knife and he beats her for the first time

- From then on he beats her regulary (not sure about this but that's what I interpreted after hearing the story from the guy who helped Tamara/Anna to escape)

- She decides to get rid of her unborn child and asks the crones for help

- She made a deal with the crones to serve them for 1 year, if they kill her child for her

- She get's the amulet to defend herself from the crones magic, but looses it during quarrel with the baron on the day she and Tamara run away

- Crones take her and use her as a slave to take care of the orphans they are planing to eat

 

Not sure when the baron started to drink (before or after the **** started)

[panzerwzh]

What's your point? You think she is completely to blame while he is the victim, is that it? She deserved the beating?
To me it's obvious they were both awful and the game tries to make it clear, even with his daughter hating him in the end. Hell, even the Baron admitted he is also to blame and drove his loved ones away.

He is pointing out Baron and Anna are equally faulty in this case. He is not the one the start Baron is the only abuser for this family.

[zyntifox]

What's your point? You think she is completely to blame while he is the victim, is that it? She deserved the beating?

To me it's obvious they were both awful and the game tries to make it clear, even with his daughter hating him in the end. Hell, even the Baron admitted he is also to blame and drove his loved ones away.

 That was my experience. They are both imperfect/bad people hence my Geralt said to the Baron that they deserve each other. 

[London]

If I'm wrong based on what I've played - up to the point where Tamara refuses to go back to see her father and explains her awful childhood - and you tubing the rest (I know Anna had cheated and also asked for an abortion from the crones), then that is fine. But the impression I got is that the Baron became an alcoholic due to war, and everything went downhill from there.

[nici2412]

What's your point? You think she is completely to blame while he is the victim, is that it? She deserved the beating?

To me it's obvious they were both awful and the game tries to make it clear, even with his daughter hating him in the end. Hell, even the Baron admitted he is also to blame and drove his loved ones away.

I never said this. They both deserved each other, but some people saying the baron is more guilty than Anna is ridiculous

[hoechlbear]

If I'm wrong based on what I've played - up to the point where Tamara refuses to go back to see her father and explains her awful childhood - and you tubing the rest (I know Anna had cheated and also asked for an abortion from the crones), then that is fine. But the impression I got is that the Baron became an alcoholic due to war, and everything went downhill from there.

 

It was a chain of events that lead both of them to do bad things. The baron starting drinking because of the effect the war had on him, his wife had an affair because she felt lonely, the baron killed his wife's lover when he came back from the war, the wife tried to kill him and herself and kept provoking him, the baron beat her because of it and because he was an alcoholic, the wife killed her own baby because she hated the baron. All horrible things, all guilty, none are victims. Or both are, depending on how you want to look at it. Basically it all started because of the war, but it wasn't exactly the baron that started that chain of events, because if the wife hadn't cheat on him he probably wouldn't beat her just for the sake of it. At least that's the impression I got from the conversation with him.

[Xetykins]

I swear. The Baron is the W3 equivalent of Loghain.

[chance52]

I think people here are also quick to dismiss the psychological impact of being a battered woman or anyone who has been in a relationship with an alcoholic. This also wasn't a time period where there were battered women's shelters or even anywhere Anna could go for help. Where could she go? One of the Barons own men? What really would her options be outside living a life of permanent misery?

 

 

No one here is dismissing her suffering and in fact she does turn to the Baron's own men because they see exactly what's going on and when all hell breaks lose they try to split everyone up until the Baron sobers up.  I think if i remember right you hear an outsiders perspective from the Sergent

Spoiler

Also getting a magic miscarriage and leaving the bloody baby corpse for her husband to find and have both her daughter and husband think the baron is the one that did it when she knows full well it was the witches was harsh.

 

The Baron is a multiple war vet and to hear him talk, likely has PTSD. Before any beatings even started his wife was taking their daughter away never to be seen again. Had nothing to do with his drinking or keeping their child safe. She fell out of love with him and in love with her old friend and decided to blow up the family, not by leaving and working out some sort of visitation. But by kidnapping their daughter to start this new life without him.

 

I think everyone that finished that quest thinks these 2 should have separated a long time ago. You see both the Baron and the wife apart and interacting with others in a way that makes you think "these 2 are 100 times better off than when they were together." But when people defend the Baron a little they aren't saying 'beating your wife is ok and drinking all the time is just fine' They are saying, look, he has his blame in all this, but it isn't 100% when his wife has tried to kill him, steal his daughter and dismiss everything he went through protecting their King in wars when he was called to do so. It isn't like you can just ignore the king when you get called to war, you get hung for doing that.

 

 

 

Lets use spoilers more please everyone.  I know a few people reading this thread haven't played the game yet or how far in others are.

[SnakeCode]

And what was his behavior like before he even left for war? Already an alcoholic? And who is the storyteller for this sequence?

 

No, he became an alcoholic whilst away on lengthy war campaigns. He found comfort in drink where before he'd find it in the arms of his wife. Meanwhile back at home his wife was cheating on him, for three years.

 

The first time he struck her was when she tried to murder him with a knife. He had just killed her lover. They were both terrible people, but that's exactly the point. Both the Polygon and Kotaku articles neglect to mention any of the abuses commited by Anna and place all of the blame at The Baron's feet. Why? Because it fits the narrative they are trying to push.

[line_genrou]

The Baron was an ******* to everyone surrounding him when he became drunk. You find out later in the game in a letter found in a bandit camp that some of his men left his service because the Baron stabbed one in the eye. He also burned the stable down and that's how Geralt finds him: fighting with one of his men.

Anna was just one of his victims. He didn't beat her up because she provoked him, that was his views on the matter in an attempt to justify what he did.

[MoonDrummer]

Spoiler

I think its worth noting that the Baron either ends up hanging himself, or abandoning his title and lands to find a cure for her.

[Xetykins]

No, he became an alcoholic whilst away on lengthy war campaigns. He found comfort in drink where before he'd find it in the arms of his wife. Meanwhile back at home his wife was cheating on him, for three years.
 
The first time he struck her was when she tried to murder him with a knife. He had just killed her lover. They were both terrible people, but that's exactly the point. Both the Polygon and Kotaku articles neglect to mention any of the abuses commited by Anna and place all of the blame at The Baron's feet. Why? Because it fit's the narrative they are trying to push.

Wow. I know more about the game I havent played yet than some reviewer who apparently played the game for 70 hrs.

98% on my W3 download, then either I'll be quiet for a month or so because I'm thoroughly enjoying it. Or... come back here and rant on how horribly the game is.

[hoechlbear]

Wow. I know more about the game I havent played yet than some reviewer who apparently played the game for 70 hrs.

98% on my W3 download, then either I'll be quiet for a month or so because I'm thoroughly enjoying it. Or... come back here and rant on how horribly the game is.

 

See you in a month then. hehe

[SnakeCode]

Wow. I know more about the game I havent played yet than some reviewer who apparently played the game for 70 hrs.

98% on my W3 download, then either I'll be quiet for a month or so because I'm thoroughly enjoying it. Or... come back here and rant on how horribly the game is.

 

Hopefully it's the former.  

[London]

But without having the benefit of speaking to her, there is something I am unclear about.

Did she cheat because she was lonely, or did she cheat because over time she fell out of love with the alcoholic Baron? And was there physical abuse before the cheating? Alcoholism can be serious and result in physical and emotional abuse, but even without that, being married to an alcoholic is a lonely existence as they spend lots of time incoherent or unconscious. Tamara doesn't seem to recall any time her parents were in love - only that she hated living there. Also interesting is that she left with her mother and refused to see her father.

We are in a setting where it is doubtful Anna had options to just leave and have a better life for herself. Even if she asked to leave, would the Baron have let her? He tells us in game that he lied to Geralt because he needs to be viewed as having power and control over Anna. I doubt letter her walk away would sit well with him.

I don't blame the Baron for needing to go to war and being traumatized by the experience. Or being angry for being cheated on. But that wouldn't have made him any easier to life with. I also don't believe murdering the other man is defensible in a current civilized setting, but that is not the setting we are in.

I agree that both characters are sympathetic and horrible in their own way. These are serious issues being explored in game and not in a way where only one is the victim. I just find "SJW" being thrown at anyone who ultimately sides with Anna to be unfair. And I can see how, depending on ones own life experience, that having the option for Geralt to pity or emphasize with the Baron and for the story to be presented that just because the Baron feels bad now that the abuse is over, and have Geralt try to encourage Tamara to return to an abusive household, can be offensive.

But you can also portray Geralt entirely differently. I think that this storyline is the best and most realistic I've seen these issues handled by a game, and there would be no need for discussion if it were cut and dry.

[chance52]

But without having the benefit of speaking to her, there is something I am unclear about.

Did she cheat because she was lonely, or did she cheat because over time she fell out of love with the alcoholic Baron? And was there physical abuse before the cheating? Alcoholism can be serious and result in physical and emotional abuse, but even without that, being married to an alcoholic is a lonely existence as they spend lots of time incoherent or unconscious. Tamara doesn't seem to recall any time her parents were in love - only that she hated living there. Also interesting is that she left with her mother and refused to see her father.

We are in a setting where it is doubtful Anna had options to just leave and have a better life for herself. Even if she asked to leave, would the Baron have let her? He tells us in game that he lied to Geralt because he needs to be viewed as having power and control over Anna. I doubt letter her walk away would sit well with him.

I don't blame the Baron for needing to go to war and being traumatized by the experience. Or being angry for being cheated on. But that wouldn't have made him any easier to life with. I also don't believe murdering the other man is defensible in a current civilized setting, but that is not the setting we are in.

I agree that both characters are sympathetic and horrible in their own way. These are serious issues being explored in game and not in a way where only one is the victim. I just find "SJW" being thrown at anyone who ultimately sides with Anna to be unfair. And I can see how, depending on ones own life experience, that having the option for Geralt to pity or emphasize with the Baron and for the story to be presented that just because the Baron feels bad now that the abuse is over, and have Geralt try to encourage Tamara to return to an abusive household, can be offensive.

But you can also portray Geralt entirely differently. I think that this storyline is the best and most realistic I've seen these issues handled by a game, and there would be no need for discussion if it were cut and dry.

 

 

Spoiler

It is stated the first time he ever struck her in any way was when she came at him with a knife trying to kill him.  The baron returned from the war, found out his wife had taken their daughter and was in love with someone else, had been for years, and that she was never going to see him again.  He rode after them, caught up and killed the lover in a rage. He admits is was out of his mind with rage and was in the wrong.  She saw this and tried to kill him and only stopped after the Baron hit her. He says he didn't think it was the right thing to do but he didn't know how else to get her to stop trying to kill him.