15863 réponses à ce sujet

[chance52]

Wow. I know more about the game I havent played yet than some reviewer who apparently played the game for 70 hrs.

98% on my W3 download, then either I'll be quiet for a month or so because I'm thoroughly enjoying it. Or... come back here and rant on how horribly the game is.

 

Assuming you are getting the free DLC too for your first playthrough. You might want to turn off from the main menu the Alt looks for Triss and Yen on your first run.  While the looks are cool and different the default looks of both characters fit the story better imo. Especially Triss. 

[line_genrou]

On another note, the voice acting for the Baron is great.

[SnakeCode]

He wasn't an alcoholic when she started cheating, or if he was she didn't know he was, since he was at war. The guy she cheated with was a childhood friend of hers, but we are never told the motivation behind the cheating, only that it happened.

 

As already stated the abuse only started after the fact, he killed her lover in a fit of rage, she was hysterical and tried to kill him with a knife, and the Baron hit her for the first time. So no, there wasn't any physical abuse before the cheating.

 

And again, it's not about siding with Anna, I actually find the Baron to be the more despicable of the two as well. It's that the articles deliberately leave out Anna's abuses (the cheating, attempted murder, prolonged emotional abuse) in order to further their agenda.

[Xetykins]

Assuming you are getting the free DLC too for your first playthrough. You might want to turn off from the main menu the Alt looks for Triss and Yen on your first run.  While the looks are cool and different the default looks of both characters fit the story better imo. Especially Triss.

Crap. I was so excited to get in that I forgot to dl the dlcs. The game looks so fork and spooning awesome in 4k! And oh I love the opening narrator :-)

Sigh quitting again to dl all the dlcs then. That's gonna take ages.

[SnakeCode]

Crap. I was so excited to get in that I forgot to dl the dlcs. The game looks so fork and spooning awesome in 4k! And oh I love the opening narrator :-)

Sigh quitting again to dl all the dlcs then. That's gonna take ages.

 

Totally worth it though.

[Han Shot First]

On another note, the voice acting for the Baron is great.

 

This.

 

I hope his VA gets work in DA games.

[KBomb]

But without having the benefit of speaking to her, there is something I am unclear about.

Did she cheat because she was lonely, or did she cheat because over time she fell out of love with the alcoholic Baron? And was there physical abuse before the cheating? Alcoholism can be serious and result in physical and emotional abuse, but even without that, being married to an alcoholic is a lonely existence as they spend lots of time incoherent or unconscious. Tamara doesn't seem to recall any time her parents were in love - only that she hated living there. Also interesting is that she left with her mother and refused to see her father.

We are in a setting where it is doubtful Anna had options to just leave and have a better life for herself. Even if she asked to leave, would the Baron have let her? He tells us in game that he lied to Geralt because he needs to be viewed as having power and control over Anna. I doubt letter her walk away would sit well with him.

I don't blame the Baron for needing to go to war and being traumatized by the experience. Or being angry for being cheated on. But that wouldn't have made him any easier to life with. I also don't believe murdering the other man is defensible in a current civilized setting, but that is not the setting we are in.

I agree that both characters are sympathetic and horrible in their own way. These are serious issues being explored in game and not in a way where only one is the victim. I just find "SJW" being thrown at anyone who ultimately sides with Anna to be unfair. And I can see how, depending on ones own life experience, that having the option for Geralt to pity or emphasize with the Baron and for the story to be presented that just because the Baron feels bad now that the abuse is over, and have Geralt try to encourage Tamara to return to an abusive household, can be offensive.

But you can also portray Geralt entirely differently. I think that this storyline is the best and most realistic I've seen these issues handled by a game, and there would be no need for discussion if it were cut and dry.

 

Spoiler

There isn't a need to hear Anna's side. This is not real life, so this is the way CDPR used narration to relay the story. Hearing Anna's version would have been impossible for the direction of the story line. 

 

 It is implied that he was a kinder, gentler man before the war and that he and his daughter were extremely close and he and Anna were very much in love. The Baron went off to war and lived through atrocities, turned to self medicating (drinking) to numb his pain, he returned with PTDS, only to find that the loving wife he had left is now with another man. In a fit of rage, and possibly due to his mental state of mind, killed her lover. Anna flew into a rage herself and tried to kill him. He beat her and thus started the cycle of abuse for them both. 

 

Anna would belittle him constantly and hit him regularly and he would return that abuse. Anna is the worst offender because she used their child for a tool to abuse. She knew the Baron loved his daughter and that his daughter loved him. It is stated that when the Baron went into a rage (no doubt due to PDTS and constant abuse from his wife, topped off with alcohol) Tamara was the only person that could calm him. Anna hid the abuse she handed out to the Baron and made certain that her daughter was witness to her abuse. Parental alienation is a common thing in domestic violence because it emotionally cuts deep. Tamara was the only thing the Baron loved, so Anna removed it.

 

Since no where is it implied that the Baron forced himself on Anna, she most likely got pregnant the old fashion way, leading to the narrative belief that there were times of peace between them. When she got pregnant, she didn't want his baby, not because she was afraid for the baby's life, but most likely because of her hatred for the Baron and this was just another way to strike at him. She went to the crones for an abortion, yet it is implied that she led the Baron and Tamara to believe he was the cause of her "miscarriage". Anna's docile and meek behavior when we meet her isn't due to abuse, but because she "danced with the devil" by making a pact with the witches. It's more likely than not that she fled into the night not because of the Baron, but because she knew the Crones would be coming for her. 

 

Does all of this suggest the Baron is an innocent spouse? No. He was a vile man who could have thrown Anna out, but he didn't. They both got caught up in the abuse and punishment--her because he killed her lover and him because she had a lover when she was suppose to be keeping the home fires burning. She hated that their daughter loved him, he hated Anna for turning Tamara away from him. It was a constant cycle of abuse and the only victim is Tamara. 

 

It's a complex mission. There is no "good victim". Both are responsible for their own misery. Helping the Baron isn't really a priority for Geralt, finding Ciri is and the Baron holds that key for now, and I imagine Geralt feels a bit obligated for helping the Baron, due that he saved Ciri and was good to her. The two outcomes are also very poignant, but both have very harrowing results. If you save Anna, the place goes to hell, but the Baron is a man redeemed. His family becomes his number one priority and in doing so, his village falls to a ruthless man. If he kills himself, his selfishness leads to the same result, though if he lives, there is a chance he could return with a healthy Anna and regain his village and as a redeemed man, lead it into a better place.

 

This mission isn't about saving "poor Anna" or helping the "poor Baron". It's about the human condition. It's about how war can damage a person beyond all recognition and how that can change a family dynamic, it's about a woman scorned who occupies her life with revenge and petty one uppance, and the results of this very sad and dysfunctional family. There really isn't a way to "save" them and that really isn't the jist of the mission. I love that it's complex and there is no hero or a winner. Neither Anna or the Baron are innocent and both held their cards in the game equally. The fact that people cling to Anna being a innocent victim is advocating her violence and mental abuse, while abominating the Baron for the same crimes. It's saying, "If your husband smacks you around, it's okay to beat his ***." This isn't an example of misogyny, it is an example of duel abuse and should be seen as such.

[Fiery Phoenix]

This.

 

I hope his VA gets work in DA games.

Witcher 3 in general has better voice acting than DA:I, IMHO.

[MoonDrummer]

Witcher 3 in general has better voice acting than DA:I, IMHO.

I don't know about that tbh... the American accents are really out of place, kinda drives me mad. This happened in DA:I with Seggrit too, but I let him die, so problem solved. 

 

The Orlesian VAs are dreadful though. 

[Fiery Phoenix]

I don't know about that tbh... the American accents are really out of place, kinda drives me mad. This happened in DA:I with Seggrit too, but I let him die, so problem solved. 

 

The Orlesian VAs are dreadful though. 

I get what you mean. Neither game is perfect, but if I had to choose, I would pick Witcher 3's VOs over DA:I's. (I've also heard the Polish VO's are even better than the English ones.)

[Super Drone]

I am curious to know who thought to make all the Witchers in the game American. I get keepimg the VA styles for Triss and Dandelion since they didn't really care about accents in the first game. But the random Cat School Witcher in the latest DLC is American too.  "Witcher" is not a nationality.

[AmberDragon]

I have just finished my second full playthrough (just got a lot of exploration left and a few contracts) I went for the "good" ending this time ...

Spoiler

Ciri as Empress, and really loved the way they crafted that ending too (seen the three Ciri endings now and they are all fantastic story wise), just loved seeing her bonding with Geralt, the piggy back ride, fishing with bombs, his burt expression when he sees the soldiers who've come to escort her to Vizima. Each of the three endings have had so much more emotion to them than the DAI ending (in my opinion anyway, and I did at least six complete playthroughs of DAI)

 

Will probably start a third W3 playthrough today or tomorrow as I want to see if my hands will let me try a higher difficulty and I want to try playing as a witcher who kills all monsters, including the sentient ones to see if it changes anything... LOL

 

Spoiler

There isn't a need to hear Anna's side. This is not real life, so this is the way CDPR used narration to relay the story. Hearing Anna's version would have been impossible for the direction of the story line. 

 

 It is implied that he was a kinder, gentler man before the war and that he and his daughter were extremely close and he and Anna were very much in love. The Baron went off to war and lived through atrocities, turned to self medicating (drinking) to numb his pain, he returned with PTDS, only to find that the loving wife he had left is now with another man. In a fit of rage, and possibly due to his mental state of mind, killed her lover. Anna flew into a rage herself and tried to kill him. He beat her and thus started the cycle of abuse from them both. 

 

Anna would belittle him constantly and hit him regularly and he would return that abuse. Anna is the worst offender because she used their child for a tool to abuse. She knew the Baron loved his daughter and that his daughter loved him. It is stated that when the Baron went into a rage (no doubt due to PDTS and constant abuse from his, topped off with alcohol) Tamara was the only person that could calm him. Anna hid the abuse she handed out to the Baron and made certain that her daughter was witness to her abuse. Parent alienation is a common thing in domestic violence because it emotional cuts deep. Tamara was the only thing the Baron loved, so Anna removed it.

 

It is implied no where that the Baron forced himself on Anna, so she most likely got pregnant the old fashion way, leading to the narrative belief that there were times of peace between them. When she got pregnant, she didn't want his baby. Not because she was afraid for the baby's life, but most likely because of her hatred for the Baron and another way to strike at him. She went to the crones for an abortion, yet it is implied that she led the Baron and Tamara to believe he was the cause of her "miscarriage". Anna's docile and meek behavior when we meet her isn't due to abuse, but because she "danced with the devil". It's most likely she fled into the night not because of the Baron, but because she knew the Crones would be coming for her. 

 

Does all of this suggest the Baron is an innocent spouse? No. He was a vile man who could have thrown Anna out, but he didn't. They both got caught up in the abuse and punishment--her because he killed her lover and him because she had a lover when she was suppose to be keeping the home fires burning. She hated that their daughter loved him, he hated Anna for turning Tamara away from him. It was a constant cycle and the only victim is Tamara. 

 

It's a complex mission. There is no "good victim". Both are responsible for their own misery. Helping the Baron isn't really a priority for Geralt, finding Ciri is and the Baron holds that key for now, and I imagine Geralt feels a bit obligated for helping the Baron, due that he saved Ciri and was good to her. The two outcomes are also very poignant, but both have very harrowing results. If you save Anna, the place goes to hell, but the Baron is a man redeemed. His family becomes his number one priority and in doing so, his village falls to a ruthless man. If he kills himself, his selfishness leads to the same result, though if he lives, there is a chance he could return with a healthy Anna and regain his village and as a redeemed man, lead it into a better place.

 

This mission isn't about saving "poor Anna" or helping the "poor Baron". It's about the human condition. It's about how war and how that can change you, it's about a woman scorned, and the results of this very sad and dysfunctional family. There really isn't a way to "save" them and that isn't the jist of the mission. I love that it's complex and there is no hero or a winner. Either Anna or the Baron are innocent and both held their cards in the game equally. The fact that people cling to Anna being a innocent victim is advocating her violence and mental abuse, while abominating the Baron for the same crimes. It's saying, "If your husband smacks you around, it's okay to beat his ***." This isn't an example of misogyny, it is an example of duel abuse and should be seen as such.

Well said, sorry stupid "like" limit, I ran out of likes for today.

 

As for those reviewers who called the game misogynistic, well it's very obvious that A) They didn't play the game. Or B ) They are pushing an agenda. There are quite a few strong female characters in the game, as others have said Ciri is more powerful than Geralt, you also have Yennifer, Tris, Kiera, Cerys etc... as for sex scenes, well apart from one (or two) they are avoidable and the cut scenes can be easily skipped at the press of a key. Although as a British female in her fifties I don't see what is wrong with seeing the occasional topless female, they are quite commonplace on beaches in the UK and Europe, the human body is not something dirty or to be ashamed of, heck we even have a few nudist beaches!

[MoonDrummer]

I have just finished my second full playthrough (just got a lot of exploration left and a few contracts) I went for the "good" ending this time ...

Spoiler

Ciri as Empress, and really loved the way they crafted that ending too (seen the three Ciri endings now and they are all fantastic story wise), just loved seeing her bonding with Geralt, the piggy back ride, fishing with bombs, his burt expression when he sees the soldiers who've come to escort her to Vizima. Each of the three endings have had so much more emotion to them than the DAI ending (in my opinion anyway, and I did at least six complete playthroughs of DAI)

But that ending involves the Black Ones winning... ew. 

[AmberDragon]

But that ending involves the Black Ones winning... ew. 

True but

Spoiler

Temeria gets self rule if you kill Radovid ...

[MoonDrummer]

True but

Spoiler

Temeria gets self rule if you kill Radovid ...

Sod that. I'm sticking with Rad the Lad and his lub-dubing chess pieces. 

 

Spoiler

I would go for Dijkstra but I don't want to kill Broche. My ideal ending would have been most of the Northern Kingdoms becoming independent. I don't think it would have been an obvious good choice to make either (like picking Cerys in Skellige), because at some point the Black Ones are going to invade again. I don't like the idea of Ciri sitting on the throne of the nation that destroyed her homeland, committed genocide on its people, and killed her grandmother is not a great ending for me.

[TheOgre]

And what were the order of events? Was she beaten and abused and living a life of loneliness with her alcoholic husband, with no other option than to take her daughter and run away in the middle of a war-torn land populated by monsters that can kill them? Would she really have been able to ask for a divorce in this setting?

The daughter collaborates that she laid witness to a horrible life for her mother.

Did you actually play the quest man? :/ 

 

Deja ****** vu; this happened nearly 60 pages ago where someone who didn't experience the entire quest only shows the daughters knowledge of the events that happened. Then we have other people who actually experienced the full story of it trying to tell them why both sides are actually guilty.

[Cantina]

This is really good:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the Baron. 

 

By far thee best quest I have ever played in any game to date. It was heart-wrenching, edge of your seat amazingly well written and acted out.

 

I chose to save Anna. Despite all their wrongs, allowing the Baron and his wife a second chance seemed to be the better ending.

 

 

[AmberDragon]

Sod that. I'm sticking with Rad the Lad and his lub-dubing chess pieces. 

 

Spoiler

I would go for Dijkstra but I don't want to kill Broche. My ideal ending would have been most of the Northern Kingdoms becoming independent. I don't think it would have been a obvious good choice to make either (like picking Cerys in Skellige), because at some point the Black Ones are going to invade again. I don't like the idea of Ciri sitting on the throne of the nation that destroyed her homeland, committed genocide on its people, and killed her grandmother is not a great ending for me.

Spoiler

I see Ciri as someone who will make a good ruler like Cerys, a power for change and to make the world a better place, she isn't like her Emyr.

 

That said I liked the ending where she became a witcher and travelled with Geralt, but I didn't like Radovid as a ruler. I found the ending where Ciri dies and Geralt basically commits suicide to be my least favourite, hate the idea of Geralt hurting that much. All three endings are much more satisfying than the DAI ending in my opinion, much more emotional power in them...

[MoonDrummer]

Spoiler

I see Ciri as someone who will make a good ruler like Cerys, a power for change and to make the world a better place, she isn't like her Emyr.

 

That said I liked the ending where she became a witcher and travelled with Geralt, but I didn't like Radovid as a ruler. I found the ending where Ciri dies and Geralt basically commits suicide to be my least favourite, hate the idea of Geralt hurting that much. All three endings are much more satisfying than the DAI ending in my opinion, much more emotional power in them...

Rad was turned into a cartoon villain in the Witcher 3, kinda disappointing, he had been like a young Tywin Lannister up until the Witcher 3.

[MoonDrummer]

Has anyone seen this http://gwent-online.org

[TheOgre]

Rad was turned into a cartoon villain in the Witcher 3, kinda disappointing, he had been like a young Tywin Lannister up until the Witcher 3.

I admit I liked him much better in other games

 

Could be just second hand information when I say this but there's nothing more to his character anymore. It's just one "Must kill elves/dwarves and magisters/witches whenever possible"

 

Such a shame.

[Jester]

Spoiler

I see Ciri as someone who will make a good ruler like Cerys, a power for change and to make the world a better place, she isn't like her Emyr.

 

That said I liked the ending where she became a witcher and travelled with Geralt, but I didn't like Radovid as a ruler. I found the ending where Ciri dies and Geralt basically commits suicide to be my least favourite, hate the idea of Geralt hurting that much. All three endings are much more satisfying than the DAI ending in my opinion, much more emotional power in them...

Well, the problem with DA:I's ending is that it doesn't feel earned. It's hard to feel emotionally invested, when there's no sense of threat. 

The problem lies less in the ending itself, and more in the fact, that the antagonist becomes less and less dangerous as the game progresses. Corypheus is introduced with a bang during his assault on Haven - he shows his power and his motivation, he defeats your army and forces you to retreat. Later however, he suffers defeat after defeat, both on and off screen. Therefore the entire ending is set as his final act of desperation - but that doesn't seem threatening. 

No one can die during this final battle. The enemy himself is retreating during the entire mission. And what's even worse - your previous actions don't matter in the slightest in the story's resolution.

 

Now, I don't think that the Wild Hunt is a perfect antagonist - there should be more dialogue with them, especially with Eredin himself. But from the perspective of story pacing and threat they represent - they're great.

Spoiler

From the very beginning they seem dangerous - through the tutorial nightmare, chase before Vizima, the destroyed village, mission with Keira - they're are shown as menacing, dangerous and always one step ahead. During act II they are feared. You gather all your allies against them - and still you suffer a painful defeat. They kill a character you get close too, and only Ciri stops them briefly. They are presented as threatening to you and those close to you. Corypheus never was that. He never, after his first appearance, shows himself as a true danger. And that's the reason, why the final mission and the ending fall out flat.

 

It is particularly strange, because BioWare didn't really have an issue with that. Particularly in Mass Effect series. In Mass Effect Saren is dangerous, and after the first confrontation he turns out to be backed by even more powerful threat - and even though you beat him on Virmire, it costs you a squadmate, adding personal motivation. Collectors beat you at Horizon (taking most of the colonists) and on your own ship, stealing you crew. The suicide mission is an act of desperation on your part - not the enemy's, and saving everyone seems earned. In Mass Effect 3 you lose to the enemy many times - and every victory you achieve is costly. All of that adds tension to the story and makes you invested in the characters and the narrative itself. Unfortunately DA:I got that right only for the first 1/3 of the story.

[MoonDrummer]

I admit I liked him much better in other games

 

Could be just second hand information when I say this but there's nothing more to his character anymore. It's just one "Must kill elves/dwarves and magisters/witches whenever possible"

 

Such a shame.

The politics of the Witcher 3 is my main criticism, I suppose.

Spoiler

Radovid is pure evil for... reasons, Nilfgaard becomes much more agreeable and much less butcher and burn every thing in sight, because Ciri taking their throne is supposed to be a good ending. And Dijkstra, I mean, who is even going to let Dijkstra win if it involves killing Broche?

 

The choice between Cerys and Hjalmar is ridiculously easy and obvious aswell. 

[Cantina]

Has anyone seen this http://gwent-online.org

 

 

 

Good idea but it was confusing and hard to navigate. Maybe it was just me?

 

In any case, CDP should come out with an MP version of this game. While not a fan of MP, I'd defintley play MP Gwent.

[line_genrou]

I don't know about that tbh... the American accents are really out of place, kinda drives me mad. This happened in DA:I with Seggrit too, but I let him die, so problem solved. 

 

The Orlesian VAs are dreadful though. 

 

For me the only really awful voice acting is Triss.

I got used to Geralt and I think his voice is awesome and it's just...Geralt.

The american voices of Dandelion and the other Witchers were also great. I especially like Lambert's VA.