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Feedback... be more like The Witcher 3


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#6126
MoonDrummer

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For me the only really awful voice acting is Triss.

I got used to Geralt and I think his voice is awesome and it's just...Geralt.

The american accents for Dandelion and the other Witchers were also great. I especially like Lambert's VA.

For me Geralt and Triss are okay. Lambert and Dandelion are the really bad ones lol.  :D



#6127
line_genrou

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But that ending involves the Black Ones winning... ew

 

 

Spoiler



#6128
line_genrou

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Rad was turned into a cartoon villain in the Witcher 3, kinda disappointing, he had been like a young Tywin Lannister up until the Witcher 3.

 

Yeah, until Tywin Lannister ordered the death of babies.

To be honest, they are quite similar. Radovid was just going mad and at least we got that explanation instead of "hoho he's just bad"



#6129
Aren

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And those are destroying gaming for all of us who prefer a realistic approach of those topics, especially when it comes with games that have an universe based on medieval times.

Thanks for that, now we have the Qun embracing transgender people. Now, before someone get their panties in a twist, I have nothing against transgender people, I hate the retcon.

Isabela has rewritten that tome, and the Qunari have blindly followed the instructions.



#6130
midnight tea

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Isabela has rewritten that tome, and the Qunari have blindly followed the instructions.

 

.... Or, more realistically, some people seem to have problem understanding nuance, hence they didn't catch what BW did (which is funny, considering that I caught what they were doing almost immediately, even though DAI was my first DA game). It wasn't a retcon, but simply different perspective - namely, a biased portrayal of the Qun by Iron Bull... Not really sure why this is so difficult to get.


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#6131
Elhanan

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Well, the problem with DA:I's ending is that it doesn't feel earned. It's hard to feel emotionally invested, when there's no sense of threat. 
The problem lies less in the ending itself, and more in the fact, that the antagonist becomes less and less dangerous as the game progresses. Corypheus is introduced with a bang during his assault on Haven - he shows his power and his motivation, he defeats your army and forces you to retreat. Later however, he suffers defeat after defeat, both on and off screen. Therefore the entire ending is set as his final act of desperation - but that doesn't seem threatening. 
No one can die during this final battle. The enemy himself is retreating during the entire mission. And what's even worse - your previous actions don't matter in the slightest in the story's resolution.
 
Now, I don't think that the Wild Hunt is a perfect antagonist - there should be more dialogue with them, especially with Eredin himself. But from the perspective of story pacing and threat they represent - they're great.

Spoiler

 
It is particularly strange, because BioWare didn't really have an issue with that. Particularly in Mass Effect series. In Mass Effect Saren is dangerous, and after the first confrontation he turns out to be backed by even more powerful threat - and even though you beat him on Virmire, it costs you a squadmate, adding personal motivation. Collectors beat you at Horizon (taking most of the colonists) and on your own ship, stealing you crew. The suicide mission is an act of desperation on your part - not the enemy's, and saving everyone seems earned. In Mass Effect 3 you lose to the enemy many times - and every victory you achieve is costly. All of that adds tension to the story and makes you invested in the characters and the narrative itself. Unfortunately DA:I got that right only for the first 1/3 of the story.


Not really.

ME1 drew my attention to the final battle well enough, but Saren was an afterthought by the end; Sovereign was the main threat. Have only played ME2 once because of the lack of urgency in completing the final quest made possible by having to police thermal clips after battles. And the 'War Table' in ME3 kept me informed of the growing strength of assets, even in the face of apparent setbacks. Nothing is perfect....

DAI and Cory kept my attention well enough, esp in the storied events. And while direct confrontation became his final option after his armies were stripped and defeated, floating a keep is a fair demonstration of power, IMO. Or are cut-scenes not that important to the story?

#6132
line_genrou

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.... Or, more realistically, some people seem to have problem understanding nuance, hence they didn't catch what BW did (which is funny, considering that I caught what they were doing almost immediately, even though DAI was my first DA game). It wasn't a retcon, but simply different perspective - namely, a biased portrayal of the Qun by Iron Bull... Not really sure why this is so difficult to get.

 

didn't he say transgender people have  their own name and fight in the army?

Bull was a spy, working for the Qun system and even went through re-education. You're telling me he is especially open minded and I'm supposed to buy all this?

He said Krem feels like a man, so he is a man. Sure, even though most people in our present time have issues understading or accepting that, but the most strict culture in the world of Thedas does! Yay.

 

Iron Bull was just the perfect character to please SJW crowd.


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#6133
TheOgre

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Off topic

@Midnight

Spoiler

 

I smile every time I see Esmeralda fight in Salty Bet just because of this attack..

 

She falls over from an attack someone did (Donald's op upper cut) and then he comes out to share last words with her, and then the most OP attack happens. She gets back up and everyones happy.

 

I love it :) Saint Saya MUGEN characters are always amazing.



#6134
Elhanan

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didn't he say transgender people have  their own name and fight in the army?
Bull was a spy, working for the Qun system and even went through re-education. You're telling me he is especially open minded and I'm supposed to buy all this?
He said Krem feels like a man, so he is a man. Sure, even though most people in our present time have issues understading or accepting that, but the most strict culture in the world of Thedas does! Yay.
 
Iron Bull was just the perfect character to please SJW crowd.


More strict then current society? Perhaps one should re-investigate the lore.

In any event, Iron Bull is not the Arishock; is a spy, and one that is supposed to blend in with other societies outside of the Qun. And after two campaigns, still have yet to discover the secret of Krem in the game itself, so if this a ploy for the 'crowd', it ain't doing such a great job. But as a personal story, it may be effective.

#6135
TheOgre

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didn't he say transgender people have  their own name and fight in the army?

Bull was a spy, working for the Qun system and even went through re-education. You're telling me he is especially open minded and I'm supposed to buy all this?

He said Krem feels like a man, so he is a man. Sure, even though most people in our present time have issues understading or accepting that, but the most strict culture in the world of Thedas does! Yay.

 

Iron Bull was just the perfect character to please SJW crowd.

 

I don't disagree

 

But I want to think back to Sten when he said he didn't think Morrigan was a woman. It was because women weren't like her in his culture. So they identified gender in different contexts. That can work be good or bad for our argument here in regards to err sjws... They don't identify gender based on physical assets which works good and bad for women. On one hand, you are judged solely for your character and not for whats on your body. The other, they don't think of women as warriors or strong outside the child rearing culture.. Edit: This is strange because there are strong qunari women that aren't Tamrassen and are in high power within the Qun (at least from the comics and what I may or may not know). 

 

It's a very weird culture.. Edit: It's like Sten and Iron Bull are from two different universes, but sometimes they are consistent in views.



#6136
Shechinah

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didn't he say transgender people have  their own name and fight in the army?

Bull was a spy, working for the Qun system and even went through re-education. You're telling me he is especially open minded and I'm supposed to buy all this?

He said Krem feels like a man, so he is a man. Sure, even though most people in our present time have issues understading or accepting that, but the most strict culture in the world of Thedas does! Yay.

 

Iron Bull was just the perfect character to please SJW crowd.

 

"Qunari strongly believes that genders are inherently and intuitively better at certain tasks. No matter how much aptitude and promise a male shows for management, he will never be considered as good at it as a female, therefor it would be considered inefficent and a waste of resources to place him in a role where a woman might serve better. Instead, the Tamassarans find another role that he shows aptitude for and will place him there instead. The same goes for female, most Qunari will find it odd if a female becomes a warrior. The odd, very rare exception is made however. A male Qunari will farm if he must, just as a female will fight, depending on the circumstances. If a female shows sincere interest to and outstanding talent at fighting, she will be considered male, regardless of her biological gender. For Qunari, gender is a secondary trait compared to their duty to the Qun." - (The Dragon Age Wikipedia on Qunari.)

 

The Qun is no less strict; it still depends upon an "outstanding talent". The if is bolded because if Krem had lacked a talent when it came to combat but still made the claim, the Tamassarans would have considered him due for either re-education. or the qamek. They've not become acceptant or understanding of transexuality. The final say of your identiy still lies with the Qun and not with you.

 

"Aqun-Athlok; One who is "born as one gender but lives as another" - (The Dragon Age Wikipedia on Qunlat)

 

The Qun has no end of term for things and people so it is no surprise they have one in this case. I'll have to dig up Iron Bull's quote to be certain but I do not believe he refers to the Aqun-Athlok as their own division within the Antaam. It seems to be more an explanatory term given to those who were born one gender but became another due to their duty to the Qun.
 


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#6137
TheOgre

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"Qunari strongly believes that genders are inherently and intuitively better at certain tasks. No matter how much aptitude and promise a male shows for management, he will never be considered as good at it as a female, therefor it would be considered inefficent and a waste of resources to place him in a role where a woman might serve better. Instead, the Tamassarans find another role that he shows aptitude for and will place him there instead. The same goes for female, most Qunari will find it odd if a female becomes a warrior. The odd, very rare exception is made however. A male Qunari will farm if he must, just as a female will fight, depending on the circumstances. If a female shows sincere interest to and outstanding talent at fighting, she will be considered male, regardless of her biological gender. For Qunari, gender is a secondary trait compared to their duty to the Qun." - (The Dragon Age Wikipedia on Qunari.)

 

The Qun is no less strict; it still depends upon an "outstanding talent". The if is bolded because if Krem had lacked a talent when it came to combat but still made the claim, the Tamassarans would have considered him due for either re-education. or the qamek. They've not become acceptant or understanding of transexuality. The final say of your identiy still lies with the Qun and not with you.

 

"Aqun-Athlok; One who is "born as one gender but lives as another" - (The Dragon Age Wikipedia on Qunlat)

 

The Qun has no end of term for things and people so it is no surprise they have one in this case. I'll have to dig up Iron Bull's quote to be certain but I do not believe he refers to the Aqun-Athlok as their own division within the Antaam. It seems to be more an explanatory term given to those who were born one gender but became another due to their duty to the Qun.
 

 

If a female shows sincere interest to and outstanding talent at fighting, she will be considered male, regardless of her biological gender.

 

I don't know if my original statement was accurate it was just an impression. But I feel iffy on that. Is that a good thing really?



#6138
Super Drone

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All of those sentences were , of course, added After DA:I came out.


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#6139
London

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Even so, was there any lore in the books or games that conflicted with what they added - or are we just learning more information over time, which wouldn't be a ret con.

I'm not overly interested in Qunari, so I am not sure either way.

#6140
Super Drone

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Well, since it's all Make-Believe, of course we are learning it over time.

 

The question is whether the writers intended it to be that way all along or added it later. And whether that decision was or was not a good idea.


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#6141
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Well, I don't recall any of them coming out and saying they didn't intend for this - like writers do who created comic book characters.

It just seems accusational.

#6142
Super Drone

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Well, they wouldn't say anything, would they? Especially since the whole concept is now mired in bad vibes.



#6143
midnight tea

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All of those sentences were , of course, added After DA:I came out.

 

Your point being...? A lot of new info was added after DAI came out, which doesn't mean that it was necessarily 'retconned'. In DAI you simply are shown a new perspective on the Qun - which doesn't necessarily makes the Qun into something it wasn't before. I mean the fact that they accept trans people due to their understanding of the role and how it defines a person doesn't mean that their philosophy overall is any less problematic - especially on many other areas.

 

Honestly... it blows my mind how people can take one quirky detail that makes the Qun at least somewhat interesting or not necessarily entirely 'evuuuuul' and make it as if BW "retconned" the Qun into some sort of weird, open-minded and tolerant utopia.

 

It's even more hilarious considering how oftentimes I see the praises of TW3 being morally gray or not presenting many black-and-white choices or factions (I'm not questioning that, mind you!) and accuse Bioware of Disney'ish and black-and-white approach, when this is obviously not the case - the nuanced portrayal of the Qun is a great example of that.


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#6144
FKA_Servo

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It's a very weird culture.. Edit: It's like Sten and Iron Bull are from two different universes, but sometimes they are consistent in views.

 

Or they offer two different perspectives of the same religion and culture. Just like real people in the real world can have massively different interpretations of a religious dogma or philosophy.

 

He said Krem feels like a man, so he is a man. Sure, even though most people in our present time have issues understading or accepting that, but the most strict culture in the world of Thedas does! Yay.

 

Whether they're the "most strict" culture is meaningless. All that matters is whether they interpret gender in a fundamentally different way than everyone else - and they do.

 

Maybe some of this was fleshed out as the series went on, but none of it is a "retcon." Again, Sten and Bull offer two different perspectives on a perfectly consistent philosophy.


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#6145
Shechinah

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I don't disagree

 

But I want to think back to Sten when he said he didn't think Morrigan was a woman. It was because women weren't like her in his culture. So they identified gender in different contexts. That can work be good or bad for our argument here in regards to err sjws... They don't identify gender based on physical assets which works good and bad for women. On one hand, you are judged solely for your character and not for whats on your body. 1, The other, they don't think of women as warriors or strong outside the child rearing culture.. Edit: This is strange because there are strong qunari women that aren't Tamrassen and are in high power within the Qun (at least from the comics and what I may or may not know). 

I would not consider the Qun a culture that considers child rearing the primary role of women since the female roles also includes roles that deal with philosophy and sciences. The Qun has the triumvirate of body, mind and soul; the body being the Arishok, the military, the mind being the Arigena, the craftsmen and the soul is the Ariqun, the prists. The predominated roles of women as Sten mentions are farmers, artisans and priests. The latter two are roles that fall under the mind and soul of the Qun - The Arigena and the Ariqun.

 

The Ben-Hassarath actually fall under the Ariqun because their purpose is to protect the faith and innocent by maintaining unity through policing and by re-educating the populace including new converts.      

 



#6146
London

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Why the insistence that there was something nefarious going on?

Most likely a lot of DA culture is not yet fully explored and they will add things to most of the cultures over time that we don't presently know.

It's probably likely that this isn't something they even fully thought about or decided until DAI.

As long as it doesn't contradict the rules they set up in the world it's fine by me.

#6147
TheOgre

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Why the insistence that there was something nefarious going on?

Most likely a lot of DA culture is not yet fully explored and they will add things to most of the cultures over time that we don't presently know.

It's probably likely that this isn't something they even fully thought about or decided until DAI.

As long as it doesn't contradict the rules they set up in the world it's fine by me.

I think the concern is if they change something, how much more will they change?



#6148
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What did they change if the poster hasn't actually seen any inconsistencies?

#6149
Shechinah

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The question is whether the writers intended it to be that way all along or added it later.

 

Sten; "People are not simple. They cannot be summarized for easy reference in the matter of: 'elves are a lithe, pointy eared people who excel at poverty."



#6150
midnight tea

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I think the concern is if they change something, how much more will they change?

 

What if they didn't change anything - only the change of perspective makes some people think that the change is huge?

 

Don't forget that BW likes doing that kind of long-term subversions or twists of expectations, in order to mess with player's head (in a good way, IMO). In DAO the Wardens were factions of heroes - in DAI they were unwitting badguy's lackeys with a terrible plan dictated by fear. Yet both portrayals are fitting and concern the very same faction.


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