15883 réponses à ce sujet

[Das Tentakel]

From what I've played of TW2 (which is, I think, most of it, at least on Iorveth's path. I plan on playing through Roche's path as soon as I'm done, and before I play TW3), I think it can go too far in the other direction at times. It seems like it can be pretty relentlessly awful. Perhaps it's "realism," but... eh. That's just me.
 
I still think Dragon Age's handling of darker themes and content (and over the course of the series, there is some very troubling stuff) is both effective and affecting, though I grant that a lot of it is found in subsidiary materials ("telling not showing"). In the interest of not digressing off into a risky direction, I don't always think you need to show everything, and I'll leave it at that.
 
You should never go full grimdark. The brothels in DAO and DA2 were goofy (they could have easily been very, very different), and injected a welcome bit of levity that was sorely missed in DAI. And I've got to say, I laughed more than I care to admit at Elthon in TW2. I hope that sort of stuff is liberally peppered around TW3 as well.

There is quite a bit of humour in TW3, but you're not going to find it in the brothels. It's not that the brothels are dens of iniquity or suffering, though. Their depiction isn't medieval but rather 1800s / 1900s / present, but in quasi-medieval garb. The way it's presented some of the girls enjoy their work, others view it entirely pragmatically. It's not grimdark at all, and I don't think that was the case in TW2 either.
If you want a grimdark brothel, play Demonicon; it's not a bad game, but has this brothel in the city of Warunk where your character is confronted with the fact that some customers like undead zombie prostitutes...and the brothel's owner is willing to accomodate them.

That's grimdark (because...really dumb and out there, though not 100% impossible), while TW's brothels are fairly normal and its prostitutes are depicted as actual people.

Characters like Commander Loredo...wish I could tell you people like him don't or didn't exist but alas, they did and do. Because Novigrad is supposed to be based on Amsterdam (and presumably other late medieval / early modern port cities northern Europe) I researched a bit of local history (I'm a historian by background, but not specialised in medieval or regional history), just so that I could compare things. Well, let me tell you, it doesn't take long for weird crap to turn up and blood to ooze out of the walls, so to speak. Ran into several Loredo-esque characters without even trying. Those are also the types who thrive during times of crisis, when they are 'useful'.
In the end, it probably comes down to personal preferences. I personally like the whimsical nature of the first two Fable games for instance, or Larian's cRPG's, but I also like the gritty blood-stained stuff, but to each their own.

[FKA_Servo]

Truth be told, I sort of regret steering the conversation that way. I swear I'm not weird about brothels! I just thought what they did there in DAO and DA2 was really charming and funny.

 

It's good to hear that there are some lighter moments, though (I'm finding them pretty few and far between in TW2). And I've got to say I have very high hopes for the depiction of Geralt's relationship with Ciri. Everyone says it's nice. The few little bits that snuck through my spoiler armor make it sound nice.

[Das Tentakel]

Truth be told, I sort of regret steering the conversation that way.
 
It's good to hear that there are some lighter moments, though (I'm finding them pretty few and far between in TW2). And I've got to say I have very high hopes for the depiction of Geralt's relationship with Ciri. Everyone says it's nice. The few little bits that snuck through my spoiler armor make it sound nice.

Don't worry, be happy and game on. If you're shocked by some things, good, it's supposed to be that way and shows that you've got strong moral boundaries.

By the way, just watched 'The Slopes of Kaer Morhen' vid and wow, just wow. And I thought I got really high up in the mountains there...

[line_genrou]

 

One of my favorite side-quests lol

[Saphiron123]

I wouldn't have minded seeing some ruins besides the lighthouse, which didnt seem to be anything like the one from DAO at all. While the dark spawn ruined it, it seems they also changed location, building material and landscape around the lighthouse. Would have been nice to see the old chantry or perhaps the pub, or even the old docks where they sent off the dead. They could have least kept the castle the same-- or the layout, at least.

I mean, I know they can do ruins, since nearly every map you go to is filled to the brim with them.

Edit: I mean windmill. Not lighthouse. Whoops.

yeah, I wanted to go BACK to redcliff. I wanted to see places and people I'd seen before, see how they were after so long. DAI paid so little attention to the world of origins. The rewrote lore, redesigned cities with completely different geography. It was disappointing.

If they weren't going to pay homage to origins, why not stick to new areas, and do the old ones right at a later time?

 

[Saphiron123]

Val Royeaux being only a stupid marketplace pissed me to no end. I really missed Denerim until of course I saw Novigrad.

Novigrad was awesome, I found myself thinking "Holy crap, how do i explore this place". It was actually daunting.

Val royeaux was barely the size of white orchard, and redcliff wasn't even as big as the baron's fort.

[KBomb]

https://www.youtube....h?v=7Wu2KffylmY

One of my favorite side-quests lol

A good one. I just finished Where a cat and wolf play for the first time. For a free dlc, it was really good.

I can't believe how good the quest design is. So much thought went into the smallest of quests. I can't wait to see the expansions. I have a feeling they'll be worth the wait.

[ashwind]

Novigrad was awesome, I found myself thinking "Holy crap, how do i explore this place". It was actually daunting.

Val royeaux was barely the size of white orchard, and redcliff wasn't even as big as the baron's fort.

 

After about 250 hours, I still get lost a lot in Novigrad

 

However, it is not the size of the cites that are impressive, it is the atmosphere of those cities that makes them impressive.

[Elhanan]

I wouldn't even call it 'rural country'. With the exception of the rather tiny settlements of Crestwood and Redcliffe, none of the regions in DA:I give any indication of being recently inhabited except perhaps for a couple of farmers / hunters / hermits in the 'greener' areas. Based on the inhabited and abandoned houses, the Hinterlands had few people - nothing that could conceivably support the several intact or fairly freshly ruined castles in the area.
 
They are thematic zones, which does add to variety (a good thing) but also creates the impression of a very fragmented and rather unconvincing world (a bad thing).
 
 
Bio made a lot of weird choices, to be honest. I remember a video with Laidlaw & the team, way back in...2011? 2012? indicating the next DA game would go 'somewhere French' and the audience's reaction to it. People were stoked for 'Fantasy France +'. But what we got was something much less than that and often speaking with a bad French accent (yes I know some voice actors are native French speakers, but others aren't).
 
For the life of me I still can't fathom why Ferelden is in the game, or why there isn't a city in the game. Wilderness 'thematic' zones with a dungeon here and a rift and a bandit camp there are boring on their own. They may somewhat work in MMO's, but MMO's derive their liveliness and much of the fun from the players. They don't work that well in single-player RPG's without a network of settlements, ruins, plenty of somewhat dynamic NPC's / NPC extras etc. united by a web of quests, lore and story that create a 'living' sense of place.

If I recall correctly, the Exalted Plains, Emerald Graves, Emprise Du Lion, and Western Approach also had indications of a sizable former population, though the latter one is seemingly nomadic in general. However, the War had decimated some areas and Cory and his minions were also a reason for a decrease in the populace of the Dales.

In Ferelden, there was also Haven, but many Players saw what occurred there over the course of the decade. And the War also devastated what was remaining from the Blight, so an active population was also not surprising.

And for myself, the worst part of playing on a MMO are the massive numbers of other Players; kinda guess this is a reason why solo play has become somewhat popular, as well as supported on some of these titles. One does not need a city, esp when the former title was based in one for a decade of the story.

[Ryzaki]

I'd prefer a mix of cities and outlets honestly. Maybe like 1 or 2 main cities and everything else small towns and hamlets. Even better if the two cities changed and developed depending on the decisions you made during the game.

 

But I don't need a whole bunch of overly large cities. Though that's my preference. *shrug* I rather not have to waste a whole bunch of time looking for one damn quest giver in a large city unless I use the massive quest marker.

[ashwind]

I'd prefer a mix of cities and outlets honestly. Maybe like 1 or 2 main cities and everything else small towns and hamlets. Even better if the two cities changed and developed depending on the decisions you made during the game.

 

But I don't need a whole bunch of overly large cities. Though that's my preference. *shrug* I rather not have to waste a whole bunch of time looking for one damn quest giver in a large city unless I use the massive quest marker.

 

I dont recall games that have more than 1 or 2 major cities. Usually it is a major city (or 2) and the rest being smaller cities, towns and villages. The reason I think is that large cities are expensive to make and even harder to make them lively so I dont think we should worry about getting "a whole bunch of overly large cities".

[Saphiron123]

If I recall correctly, the Exalted Plains, Emerald Graves, Emprise Du Lion, and Western Approach also had indications of a sizable former population, though the latter one is seemingly nomadic in general. However, the War had decimated some areas and Cory and his minions were also a reason for a decrease in the populace of the Dales.

In Ferelden, there was also Haven, but many Players saw what occurred there over the course of the decade. And the War also devastated what was remaining from the Blight, so an active population was also not surprising.

And for myself, the worst part of playing on a MMO are the massive numbers of other Players; kinda guess this is a reason why solo play has become somewhat popular, as well as supported on some of these titles. One does not need a city, esp when the former title was based in one for a decade of the story.

If war decimated those areas it's be one thing, but a ruin here and ruin there doesn't sell me on that fact. The witcher had areas REALLY decimated by war, entire towns in ruins, large battlefields filled with corpses you could ride right though, being picked at by robbers and monsters.

DAI was scenic, but they offered next to no evidence of war, and next to no evidence of sizeable populations. DAI towns are a handful of buildings and people at most, the average witcher town is so much bigger. And novigrad... That's what a city should be.

War isn't responsible for the empty maps devoid of people, lazy development is. And there's more evidence of population in any witcher town with a notice board then any city in all of dragon age.

Plus, people who actually move around and go to sleep at night. And you know... Day and night.

[Saphiron123]

After about 250 hours, I still get lost a lot in Novigrad

However, it is not the size of the cites that are impressive, it is the atmosphere of those cities that makes them impressive.

Agreed. Novigrad seems alive.

[Saphiron123]

I've only played a little of TW3 so far, but two things have struck me:

1) I've completed three sidequests. Two had an interesting choice at the end (no clear right answer), the third was pretty funny (old lady and her pan ). In the middle of a fourth that involves investigating a haunting at a well. That's also good, because it's not a case of 'go to location X and kill Y'. You have to investigate why the creature is there.

2) Ambient music. While I'm exploring the world, there's a lovely piece of music playing in the background. When I get into combat, it plays more lively music, then reverts when the battle is over. This is one thing I really wish that Bioware would pick up from games like TW3 (and Skyrim, Oblivion etc). Ambient music goes a long way towards setting a mood and making a world feel richer. Aside from the occasional snatch of music, DAI just felt really quiet when exploring, it made it feel emptier simply because of that.

While I prefer the world of DA (and various things about it), these are two things I would like to see Bioware take. They are also things that Skyrim (apparently an inspiration for DAI) did. You can't really have an 'open world' imo without ambient music and varied, interesting quests.

You have a long and intersting quest ahead, and if you like the music so far, skellige will blow your mind. There's some beautiful music that make the trek so enjoyable.

[Saphiron123]

Just adding, in the witcher 3 you just have to gather the materials once.

Yeah, really smart design. If you want to do alchemy and make a potion, once it's made all you need to replenish is alcohal. There's upgrades and tons of recipes, so you're still gathering, but it's so much less tedious then DAI.

[Elhanan]

If war decimated those areas it's be one thing, but a ruin here and ruin there doesn't sell me on that fact. The witcher had areas REALLY decimated by war, entire towns in ruins, large battlefields filled with corpses you could ride right though, being picked at by robbers and monsters.

DAI was scenic, but they offered next to no evidence of war, and next to no evidence of sizeable populations. DAI towns are a handful of buildings and people at most, the average witcher town is so much bigger. And novigrad... That's what a city should be.

War isn't responsible for the empty maps devoid of people, lazy development is. And there's more evidence of population in any witcher town with a notice board then any city in all of dragon age.

Plus, people who actually move around and go to sleep at night. And you know... Day and night.

The Exalted Plains had ruins filled with the dead, and demons and undead patrolling inside and out of them. The Emerald Graves had estates brimming with the same, and The Lion also had foes crawling the lands; both human and inhuman alike.

The Dales had more than ample illustrations of the War, and between the dead, refugees, and Red lyrium structures, it apparently once had a fairly sizable population.

And it is known that DAI chose to go with a static Day/ Night design; best setting used for the mood desired for that specific area. The Hissing Wastes are rather memorable because of the night skies, and such a setting allowed for the storied ruins and tombs set there; similar thought for The Fallow Mire. And this setting appears to play well with the various races, classes, and genders one can choose in the game, as long as one wishes to mention exclusive strengths.

[TheOgre]

Truth be told, I sort of regret steering the conversation that way. I swear I'm not weird about brothels! I just thought what they did there in DAO and DA2 was really charming and funny.

 

It's good to hear that there are some lighter moments, though (I'm finding them pretty few and far between in TW2). And I've got to say I have very high hopes for the depiction of Geralt's relationship with Ciri. Everyone says it's nice. The few little bits that snuck through my spoiler armor make it sound nice.

 

DA2's brothel was amazing IMO. Some people were upset genuinely I imagine that it was more tongue in cheek but I guess I was just one of the lucky ones that liked it.

[KBomb]

If war decimated those areas it's be one thing, but a ruin here and ruin there doesn't sell me on that fact. The witcher had areas REALLY decimated by war, entire towns in ruins, large battlefields filled with corpses you could ride right though, being picked at by robbers and monsters.

DAI was scenic, but they offered next to no evidence of war, and next to no evidence of sizeable populations. DAI towns are a handful of buildings and people at most, the average witcher town is so much bigger. And novigrad... That's what a city should be.

War isn't responsible for the empty maps devoid of people, lazy development is. And there's more evidence of population in any witcher town with a notice board then any city in all of dragon age.

Plus, people who actually move around and go to sleep at night. And you know... Day and night.

I wish I could like this more than once.

The refugees in the Hinterlands were happy as fat cats, as did those in Redcliffe. If they were war torn refugees, you wouldn't know it.

None of the farmsteads looked like actual farmsteads. Completely void of crops and domesticated animals. Not one person even riding a horse.

The markets in Val Royaeux should have been heavily populated. Honestly, Heirarch Square alone had more life than the Summer Bizarre.

I would have really loved to see an alienage or just the slums of Val Royeaux. DAI had some nice environments, but they just seem so empty and bland.

Also would have been nice if in all of those ruins, after you closed the rifts, killed bandits, kill demons etc, if the refugees would have came back. There are just absolutely no signs that anyone has lived in those ruins recently. There isn't a chantry, a pub, a goods store or anything. Just the same old burning buildings. Such a wasted opportunity. The thing is: I knew it was bare, but it wasn't until I played TW3 and saw how amazing and alive it felt that I really saw the vast emptiness of space in DAI.

Now that they have shunned old gens, there is little reason for them not to add a large city and/or village in the upcoming DLC's.

[Elhanan]

The Hinterlands were plagued by rifts and demons, which affected some of the local wildlife, which is why there are no horses seen roaming the farms. And such infestations can also interfere with farming.

And when there is a War, and the lands are assaulted by a Magister Darkspawn and his minions, rebuilding in those locations may not be the best use of time and resources. Personally prefer the ruins rather than seeing an ongoing reconstruction during such events.

[Saphiron123]

I wish I could like this more than once.

The refugees in the Hinterlands were happy as fat cats, as did those in Redcliffe. If they were war torn refugees, you wouldn't know it.

None of the farmsteads looked like actual farmsteads. Completely void of crops and domesticated animals. Not one person even riding a horse.

The markets in Val Royaeux should have been heavily populated. Honestly, Heirarch Square alone had more life than the Summer Bizarre.

I would have really loved to see an alienage or just the slums of Val Royeaux. DAI had some nice environments, but they just seem so empty and bland.

Also would have been nice if in all of those ruins, after you closed the rifts, killed bandits, kill demons etc, if the refugees would have came back. There are just absolutely no signs that anyone has lived in those ruins recently. There isn't a chantry, a pub, a goods store or anything. Just the same old burning buildings. Such a wasted opportunity. The thing is: I knew it was bare, but it wasn't until I played TW3 and saw how amazing and alive it felt that I really saw the vast emptiness of space in DAI.

Now that they have shunned old gens, there is little reason for them not to add a large city and/or village in the upcoming DLC's.

This. The exhaulted plains and emerald groves showed so little evidence of a real war it was silly. The witcher has actual refugees, people who have lost homes, who are starving an desperate. Dragon age had stories like this in past games, but DAI treats the wars with no real gravity outside of codex entries.

Compared to the witcher, and with due respect to elhanon's opinion, it's lazy and unconvincing. I feel like there's a war in the witcher, in DAI, I felt like I only heard about it.

I wasn't a witcher fan before, in fact I argued for DAI at one point... After playing it, I realized it really is an amazing game, and until you play it for yourself, nothing you say when comparing the two matters... Because I believe if you tried it, you'd see how flawed and simplistic DAI really is.

[Elhanan]

One would seemingly have to skip huge areas within the Dales to not see signs of War. The Plains had smoldering ruins abound from the initial entry to that area, and the Emerald Graves had a fairly large gathering of refugees met near entry there. And The Lion also begins dealing with refugees. DAI needs no defense here; simply recommend taking off blinders before gameplay.

[KBomb]

The Hinterlands were plagued by rifts and demons, which affected some of the local wildlife, which is why there are no horses seen roaming the farms. And such infestations can also interfere with farming.

Logic, there is none.

You get your horses from Master Dennett-- who lives in the Hinterlands. Your horse is from the Hinterlands. Your horse was practically sitting next to a rift. Are willing to say that all of the horses, but the horse master's, disappeared because of the rifts? What about anywhere else? You go to all these different places and there isn't any horses, but maybe one or two stabled ones? Rams and bears weren't bothered by the rifts obviously because they outnumber people, but the horses, it affected them so much that they just vanished into thin air. Also, the rifts may interfere with farming, but it wouldn't make entire crops disappear. There would at least be evidence of once tended crops.

And when there is a War, and the lands are assaulted by a Magister Darkspawn and his minions, rebuilding in those locations may not be the best use of time and resources. Personally prefer the ruins rather than seeing an ongoing reconstruction during such events.

Except the Inquisitor secures the lands. That is the whole point. He comes in, takes out the trash and his soldiers keep the area secure. It would make no sense for refugees to remain in camps where there is disease and hunger for an indefinite amount of time. Wars can last years, why would it make sense to stay in a refugee camp when they have soldiers protecting them and their interests? What makes sense is for them to go back to their secure homes where they try can rebuild and start making money to invest in the economy.

There is no sense of war, only abandonment. TW3 embodies what war torn means. I think there are a lot of games with war themes that can learn from them.

[KBomb]

I can really see now what the fans meant when they said Triss got a lot less attention. You have a lot of opportunities to flirt and talk with Yen.

Spoiler

And fight to defend her. I kicked the dirt off of Lugos.

I'm glad they saw what the fans were talking about and are going to fix it. I wonder if the new Triss scenes will be in a patch, or released with the expansions?

[Elhanan]

Logic, there is none.

You get your horses from Master Dennett-- who lives in the Hinterlands. Your horse is from the Hinterlands. Your horse was practically sitting next to a rift. Are willing to say that all of the horses, but the horse master's, disappeared because of the rifts? What about anywhere else? You go to all these different places and there isn't any horses, but maybe one or two stabled ones? Rams and bears weren't bothered by the rifts obviously because they outnumber people, but the horses, it affected them so much that they just vanished into thin air. Also, the rifts may interfere with farming, but it wouldn't make entire crops disappear. There would at least be evidence of once tended crops.

Except the Inquisitor secures the lands. That is the whole point. He comes in, takes out the trash and his soldiers keep the area secure. It would make no sense for refugees to remain in camps where there is disease and hunger for an indefinite amount of time. Wars can last years, why would it make sense to stay in a refugee camp when they have soldiers protecting them and their interests? What makes sense is for them to go back to their secure homes where they try can rebuild and start making money to invest in the economy.

There is no sense of war, only abandonment. TW3 embodies what war torn means. I think there are a lot of games with war themes that can learn from them.

There are no horses outside of the Master stables because of the various problems; hence the side quests that must be done before one may get their steed out of the stable. Seem to recall rifts and demons in every area, as well as other wandering encounters. And perhaps those larders some describe explain the lack of steeds seen elsewhere; also the need for fresh meat.

Crops also could have been harvested to feed the needy, be it refugees or the various factions.

Skyhold and the Inquisition grows with refugees, and Mother Giselle gives updates on the various locations where there is need. And I do not recall leaving the ones rescued without protection, but perhaps that is only me.

Perhaps DAI could learn from other games, but seems to be doing well when one actually looks while playing.

[Corto81]

I'll try to sum up in a couple of sentences how TW3 feels in how they treat war and people... and how DA:I feels.

 

In short, I feel TW3 is telling a story to an adult and treats the gamer as such. There's suffering, pain, famine, rape, torment, etc.

Nobody is safe. Men, women, children.

 

DA:I is more disney-like. They don't show it and they don't feel the need to show it. There are no children in Thedas. Anyone notice that?

Othat than Morrigan/Warden son, I honestly can't think of a child in DA:I.

Meanwhile, children and cute and playful in TW3, in danger and in need of help, from wandering starving orphans to groups of them living in deserted huts, etc.

 

Again, I won't lie... I never considered DA:I a great game. Merely good. (Origins was a great game, for example)

DA:I is shiny and beautiful... but shallow and utterly fails in nearly all the important RP elements.
But it's only after giving Witcher a chance, did I really see just how lacking this game (DA:I) is.