15883 réponses à ce sujet

[panzerwzh]

A sword enthusiast's take on W3 combat
http://www.gamesrada...l-you-expected/

Totally agree with this article, TW3 really nails the melee and represents witcher's fighting style perfectly.

 

As taught by Geralt himself:

 

“Come here, girl. Wipe your nose, and listen carefully. No strongman, mountain-toppling giant or muscle-man is going to be able to parry a blow aimed at him by a dracolizard’s tail, gigascorpion’s pincers or a griffin’s claws. And that’s precisely the sort of weapons the pendulum simulates. So don’t even try to parry. You’re not deflecting the pendulum, you’re deflecting yourself from it. You’re intercepting its energy, which you need in order to deal a blow. A light, but very swift deflection and instantaneous, equally swift blow from a reverse half-turn is enough. You’re picking impetus up by rebounding. Do you see?”

 

“Mhm.”

 

“Speed, Ciri, not strength. Strength is necessary for a lumberjack axing trees in a forest. That’s why, admittedly, girls are rarely lumberjacks. Have you got that?”

[KBomb]

I also like how you fight monster a bit different than you would humans. Different potions and oils. For instance, parrying or block is virtually useless when fighting monsters and some monsters don't respond to some signs, etc.

That's why I don't get the whole hack and slash comments. I mean, sure you can do on hack alone, but you're really missing out if you do, IMO. I enjoy utilizing every ability available to me and am very satisfied with it.

[panzerwzh]

I also like how you fight monster a bit different than you would humans. Different potions and oils. For instance, parrying or block is virtually useless when fighting monsters and some monsters don't respond to some signs, etc.

That's why I don't get the whole hack and slash comments. I mean, sure you can do on hack alone, but you're really missing out if you do, IMO. I enjoy utilizing every ability available to me and am very satisfied with it.

The problem is most gamers nowdays only accept the "awesome button" model of combat hence deny anything else.

[Dreadstruck]

I also like how you fight monster a bit different than you would humans. Different potions and oils. For instance, parrying or block is virtually useless when fighting monsters and some monsters don't respond to some signs, etc.

That's why I don't get the whole hack and slash comments. I mean, sure you can do on hack alone, but you're really missing out if you do, IMO. I enjoy utilizing every ability available to me and am very satisfied with it.

 

Tbh, I mostly see these comments from people who are bad at it. Like, really, really bad (you can usually spot them on the forums by the profillic "combat sucks! it's clunky! I had problem with 2 drowners!".)

 

Of course, then they get better and get a whole new perspective. But not always.

 

I was like that in TW2, I admit. Then I started to love it when I knew the ups and downs of the combat.

[Elhanan]

For TW3 combat, the complaint most noticed is a repetitive series of actions for general success; not failures. This does seem to differ from the complaints posted in prior titles.

[MoonDrummer]

I am actually romancing Yenn this go 'round. So far it's been all right, but jeez, she is so naggy. It's like she is always ready to be pissed off. In real life, I would have dumped her already. Triss is much more reasonable. I ain't got time for no drama and bitchatude.

Yeah, I had a playthrough where I dumped Triss and was going to romance Yen, she was so naggy though.

 

Ended up dying alone. 

[ashwind]

I also like how you fight monster a bit different than you would humans. Different potions and oils. For instance, parrying or block is virtually useless when fighting monsters and some monsters don't respond to some signs, etc.

That's why I don't get the whole hack and slash comments. I mean, sure you can do on hack alone, but you're really missing out if you do, IMO. I enjoy utilizing every ability available to me and am very satisfied with it.

 

Actually no. You can block small monsters like nekkars /wolves. Sometimes it is better to block it than moving and putting yourself in a bad situation. 

 

Parrying monsters on the other hand can be very useful (takes a lot of practice and be prepare to die practicing   ). In general parrying a flyer will bring it down next to you leaving its back exposed for attack. Also, you can use Signs on them immediately after bringing them down and they cant escape or retaliate - especially useful if you are trying to use Firestream or Yrden trap.

 

You can also parry Wraiths/Drowners etc - this will stop them from doing their combo and open them up for attack without giving up position.

[Dreadstruck]

For TW3 combat, the complaint most noticed is a repetitive series of actions for general success; not failures. This does seem to differ from the complaints posted in prior titles.

 

Maybe so, but what I have seen so far is the opposite. People complaining about the "clunkiness" and "inability" to kill some monsters without spamming (something that is easily rectified when one actually looks at the bestiary and uses a viable tactics).

 

Then again, I saw these kind of comments mostly on facebook and here so  I could be over-generalizing a bit.

[zeypher]

Actually no. You can block small monsters like nekkars /wolves. Sometimes it is better to block it than moving and putting yourself in a bad situation. 

 

Parrying monsters on the other hand can be very useful (takes a lot of practice and be prepare to die practicing   ). In general parrying a flyer will bring it down next to you leaving its back exposed for attack. Also, you can use Signs on them immediately after bringing them down and they cant escape or retaliate - especially useful if you are trying to use Firestream or Yrden trap.

 

You can also parry Wraiths/Drowners etc - this will stop them from doing their combo and open them up for attack without giving up position.

Cant parry wraiths when they translucent (IE their 3 hit combo), can when they fully visible. For drowner you cant parry their leap attack, but two arm swings after the leap can be parried. Wolves are kinda random, i can parry their jump attack their other attack is more random.

 

All flying humanoid creatures can be parried and infact i would say that is a brilliant way to bring them down. Nekkers can be completely parried, ghouls can also be parried.

 

But yea i play with heavy armour, no quen so had to learn how to dance as i try to avoid using signs if i can.

[ashwind]

Cant parry wraiths when they translucent (IE their 3 hit combo), can when they fully visible. For drowner you cant parry their leap attack, but two arm swings after the leap can be parried. Wolves are kinda random, i can parry their jump attack their other attack is more random.

 

All flying humanoid creatures can be parried and infact i would say that is a brilliant way to bring them down. Nekkers can be completely parried, ghouls can also be parried.

 

But yea i play with heavy armour, no quen so had to learn how to dance as i try to avoid using signs if i can.

 

Wolves are a bit funny, you need a bit of distance for parry to work, if they are too close, I usually end up with a simply block. 

 

Since I am level 30+ for quite some time now, missing a parry or two wont kill me. However for the first 16 level or so, it does not matter what armor you use and it also dont matter much if you have Quen. In Death March, most things kill you in 1-3 hits.

 

Oh - speaking of dancing, I recall my 1st encounter with Imlerith, I was like level 26ish wearing some low level gear and weapon, that bugger took out my Quen + 80% of my health in 1 blow       . My 2nd most recent save was like 8 hours ago and my most recent is right before meeting him. It took me like 3 hours to beat him because I cannot afford to get hit - not even once or I have to start the fight all over. His second form is crazy scary when you cant get hit even once       awww tis fun.

[TheOgre]

Just for clarification, I'm actually referring to the difference in apparent creepy and cringe worthy content or tragedy between dao and dai. There's an actual difference. It just so happens I need to "Read" for that horror or look really hard for it instead of it being in my face.

Just to be clear though, I'm not saying dai has none of it I mean emprise do lion and elhanens examples are pretty good examples of sad and haunting images.

[panzerwzh]

Yes, DAI has tons of creepy thing player could see.

 

i.e. Leliana's mouth is always creepy. I could not understand which face animation could leads to that.

Spoiler

[Elhanan]

Maybe so, but what I have seen so far is the opposite. People complaining about the "clunkiness" and "inability" to kill some monsters without spamming (something that is easily rectified when one actually looks at the bestiary and uses a viable tactics).
 
Then again, I saw these kind of comments mostly on facebook and here so  I could be over-generalizing a bit.

Fair enough; do not use social media myself.

Would like to see a cRPG title in the near future with a priority for the PC; have seen posts complaining of controllers being favored over KB&M for both games.

[Elhanan]

Just for clarification, I'm actually referring to the difference in apparent creepy and cringe worthy content or tragedy between dao and dai. There's an actual difference. It just so happens I need to "Read" for that horror or look really hard for it instead of it being in my face.

Just to be clear though, I'm not saying dai has none of it I mean emprise do lion and elhanens examples are pretty good examples of sad and haunting images.

For myself, was not gleeful with things seen in the Fallow Mire; thought this area was designed well for an accursed swamp. And the ruins under the waters of Crestwood were similarly moody, and fit the lore well. The charred ruins in the Dales, and the mansions and estates were pleasing setting for haunts.

One thing I have noticed from vids of DAI is that some of the horrible imagery in the areas can be overlooked due to the draw of the beaty surrounding them. One player passed by an impaled corpse a few times before seeing it, and many focus on the vistas and horizons; not the bloodstained location they happen to be.

And then there are spiders....

[line_genrou]

Do I even want to discuss TW3 with someone who didn't even play the game. No I don't.

[AmberDragon]

 
"Leliana was tortured for months and months! She only looks old though. She is still wearing her perfectly clean armor and has no bruises or blood. You didn't miss it, you just never see it!" I am not asking to see every abhorrent act or action, but it would be nice to see some. Would have been nice to see refugees look displaced, downtrodden and miserable. Instead, they're clean and laughing and standing about chit chatting the day away. 
 
I think TW3 has a nice mix of both grim and light. DAI has a nice mix of light and sort of dusky. To each their own, though. 

God, you're just so mean! Though Yennifer is the one with a hunchback.....

This is so true, the Leliana thing really bugged me, talk about immersion breaking, you can headcanon as much as you like but no way a prisoner, especially one being tortured would ever be in armour! It was a ridiculous scene and the just looking old no bruises or anything.

Then look at W3

Spoiler

the imprisoned sorceress', their dresses are dirty and torn, they have bruises and wounds consistent with being tortured and beaten, one is dying from her injuries etc...

far more believable. Or in W2 when Geralt is imprisoned, he is stripped of his armour and even his boots, he hasn't even been there that long a day or two at most and he shows signs of being beaten etc... again far more believable than Leliana in her spotless armour just looking old...

Same goes for refugees and villagers in DAI they are cardboard cutouts who ignore the danger around them, and people complained about clones in W3, I got sick of the sight of the same little gang of refugees camping around places in DAI even the middle of a freaking stream with a roaring camp fire! In W3 the refugees look truly displaced, the women crying etc... or groups in villages gathered around a fire, not camped out in the wilderness. In DAI I had camped refugees who sat perfectly calmly while my Inquisitor battled freaking bears right next to them, my team actually standing in their camp, not a flicker of acknowledgement. Same goes for those stupid troops in DAI in the middle of nowhere with chests of worthless junk, they don't lift a finger to help if you battle near them. In W3 any soldiers close by when you are battling anything will pitch in and help.

As I have said before I enjoyed DAI for the six complete playthroughs I did, but then W3 came out and showed us how it could and (in the case of world building and side quests) should be done. They have made Bioware look lazy by doing more on a smaller budget (as in not a AAA title with big backing), the lack of children in DAI is another ridiculous thing, you can headcanon all you want but it's just plain stupid that there are no children in Redcliffe or the market place in Val Royeaux at the very least, especially as there were children in the first game, we are somehow expected to believe that Morrigan's son is the only child in Thedas?

People like Elhanan (so glad I no longer see the rubbish he spouts unless someone replies to him) can stick their fingers in their ears and go lalalalala all they like, it doesn't change the fact CDPR did a far better job with side quests, getting people to explore the world and building a living breathing world than Bioware.

[Ryzaki]

I can't help you on the protagonist bit, but I will say Geralt felt more my own than Inquisitor.

Geralt's pretty awesome and most importantly, I know who he is, what his motivations are, what makes him tick.

My Inquisitor's only advantage was that I could chose his appearance (in a pretty crappy CC) and his sexuality. Geralt's already has relationships and history with the world and the characters, it all feels very natural.

My inquisitor is as bland as it gets, I get very shoddy explanations from the very start, I have no idea what his motivations are, and he constantly does the exact opposite of what I was trying to do (as an atheist, I wasn't really keen on being a leader of religious zealots) etc.

I did think the companions were much better than in DA2, but overall, I couldn't care less about the Inquisitor.

Anyway, you don't like him, I can't help you there, nor is there any point to arguing it.

 

...

 

Now, the Leliana torture situation.

If you're gonna do adult themes and adult situations, then either do it or don't.

If you want to do a game where the story takes place in the middle of war torn zones, you have to show it in some way.

Where are the children in Inquisition? And please, don't say they could be anywhere, the ONLY honest answer is PG reasons and Bioware shying away from such unpleasant stories.  Not having kids in the game for such silly reasons in a game supposedly meant for adults is just insulting to the gamer. I mean, Skyrim has a work-around - you can't hurt kids. But in DA:I, it's not like you can kill NPCs anyway, why not have kids? Why not try and create a believable world instead of a cardboard cutout which exist only for your character to quest in?

In a medieval, worn torn country, everyone is suffering and gets hurt. 

 

I don't remember  the word rape even being mentioned at any point in the game. Leliana - after a year of torture - in the same armor is simply ridiculous and immersion-breaking. If CDPR can take a moment and make different clothing to an imprisoned character, why can't Bioware.

In a medieval world, someone like Leliana would've likely been stripped first before any torture or anything else took place.

To me, such scenes are jarring, immersion breaking, and honestly, pretty hilarious in how badly they were done.

 

Like all said earlier, not all RPGs have to be dark and gritty and adult-themed and realistic.

But if you are going for that theme (and Inquisition is), then either do it or don't. Don't half ass it, for design reasons or political ones.

 

It's not about "showing" the scenes or "shoving them down your throat". It's about being consistent and creating believable situations and when you do come to those scenes - do them properly. 

 

Bottom line...

Witcher books are pretty grim and realistic in how the characters act and talk.

And the games stay true to that. A believable world with believable people with real consequences for their actions.

Educated people dress better and act differently, uneducated people tend to swear a lot and be more religious, soldiers swear a ton and the troops suffer from bad boots, typhus, dysentery, etc.

Inquisition's world feels... Fake. For all the reasons I'd already stated, it feels like a cardboard theme park specifically created for my character to quest in. 

(admittedly, I'm new to the books, still reading, just got them after playing TW3 - but yes, the game completely blew me away)

 

That's because you could probably relate more to a male protag. Which is good. I for one tend to play female characters if given the choice (unless fem voice is intolerable).

 

You say Geralt had relationships and it all felt very natural I felt the same with my Inquisitor as a bonus I had the ability to choose the relationships and how they went. Also Inquisition's CC save for the terrible hair...was actually pretty good. Not sure where you're getting terrible from. If the hair choices hadn't been hot garbage and there had been face codes it wouldn't have been good actually.

 

(Also I'm forever amused by people going "Why doesn't my custom character have motivations!" Um...part of a custom character is making those motivations. The only issues is when there's nothing in the game to support them or when the game goes out of it's way to try to impose certain character defining (that aren't strictly survival related) motivations on your character.) The game should give you a several reasons to want to do something but you choose your character's actual motivation for going along with the plot whether it's fame, revenge, glory, screw you or just survival.

 

(also before someone decides to bring up Hawke yeah this was exactly my issue. My motivation for staying in Kirkwall was family. ONce that was gone by act 2 I had nothing else. Survival actually said I get OUT of Kirkwall. So I was stuck doing the exact opposite of what my character's motivation would say he should do. So yeah. That blew).

 

And while you could care less about the Inquisitor that's how I feel about Geralt. So *shrug* 

 

Or the devs not finding children significant enough to warrant adding them.

 

So instead of rape being implied we need it said said flat out?

 

The whole educated people are less religious wouldn't work in he DA setting. Considering the highest powerbase is the damn Chantry and they make it a accept pretty much everyone for education as an initiate regardless of status...it wouldn't work.

 

People in the DA universe are able to read that's obvious in origins. Each origin is able to read from CE, to dalish elf, to dwarven commoner, to human noble. No matter your station you can read. It is a fundamental skill in origins setting. In able to be like the Witcher dragon age would have to violate it's own lore. (PC isn't even a special snowflake because there's signs in the poor quarters of said city so unless they only expected the PC to read them...) So we want DA to ignore all 3 past games to be like typical medieval settings to be more dark? That's what you want? I can get the rape thing. But this is absurd.

 

Now I can see some of your points but others. DA's setting is not typical medieval fanfare and it shouldn't be treated as such. Females are in power, sexism is for the most part marginalized (it's there but it's more in parity with modern day western world than medieval and honestly I like it that way. If it changed I'd stop playing these games), Racism is against other species (though yeah other race Inquisitor could've caught a bit more flak. You did get a bit too much shield for hand but I assumed that was survival instinct. Who's gonna be stupid enough to insult person who opens a black hole to the fade in their hand?)

 

That said I do agree with Leliana being more bruised I don't agree with the whole "there's been no damage to her!" marginalization it's a bad way of trying to making a point. It's obvious what's happened as soon as she opened her mouth. Would some visuals have supported that nicely? Yes but what they did use (the voice acting) did just as well.

 

That said I do agree with some of your complaints but others just feel like...you're trying to put one game into another like sticking a square box in a circle hole. It's not gonna fit man.

[AmberDragon]

Do I even want to discuss TW3 with someone who didn't even play the game. No I don't.

Well said, shame others don't ignore him too, he has no clue what he is talking about and never will because he refuses to play the game. Oh and his pathetic statement about the ratings shows how wrong he is given DAI was given the exact same rating and warnings. He is just a troll trying to derail the thread!

W3 did so many things so much better, and I really hope Bioware up their game for DA4 but unfortunately I suspect they won't as they have gotten steadily worse with Origins being the best... DAI the worst with it's mmo style fetch quests and Bioware trying to nickle & dime fans, honestly just one free dlc (black emporium) and a chest added, every other free dlc has been to try to get people playing multiplayer. As for the paid dlc, really charging for armour styles .... got a few free armour styles in W3 including sets for my horse, oh and new quests for free... so nope won't be paying Bioware for Hakkon or the added armour sets especially the one that should have been included with Hakkon. Given how badly Bioware have crapped on fans I won't buy the expansions either, they will probably just be more fetch quests anyway...

Bioware need to go back to creating proper side quests not mindless fetch quests, they need to create games where all decisions have meaning and affect more than just who becomes divine and who rules Orlais. As others have said if you don't collect ram meat or blankets you should see it make a difference, a real difference not a change to a couple of lines of banter, which for many of us wasn't working anyway! Bioware need to create worlds that feel real with day/night cycles and different weather patterns. There have been occasions in W3 where I have watched a thunderstorm and just been enthralled. As opposed to the continous rain on the storm coast (which was dry in DA2) or Crestwood where it rains even inside the buildings and caves till you close the rift...

[Ryzaki]

Oh, I agree about the brood mother. Hespith's words were chilling. 

 

The first zone? I assume you're talking about the Hinterlands before the Inquisitor closed the main rift with the mages/templars? I really didn't see much panic, tbh. Also, I am talking about the rifts outside of the villages that are optional to close. Besides the one in the lake in Crestwood and the one in front of the gates at Redcliff, I don't think anyone even mentions rifts being present. Emprise du Lion had some people in the village in spite of some being held prisoner and they weren't concerned at all that demons and red templars were around them. Even after you save the prisoners, only one or two return, and that is because of a quest involving them. The rifts have absolutely no consequence or purpose. It's like, "Well, **** it. If they don't care, I don't either. I'll just go kiss Cullen."

 

I know it seems as if I don't like DAI and that isn't true. I do like it. I just feel it falls short on a lot of things. I felt this way even before TW3 came out and I am sure if I did deep enough in the threads, I could find posts where I complain about the very things I am complaining about here. It's just, when I saw TW3, it was an epiphany. Everything I had complained about in DAI came to fruition in TW3. I am not asking for DA to become a clone of TW3. I just want Bioware to take some ideas about what works in TW3 and get inspired and make the next DA game better. They don't even have to clone the ideas, just take note. That is what the majority here want. Better quest design, more consequence to those quests, more zoetic villagers and villages, populated and bustling cities where the citizens are reactive, a better loot system, and water mechanics. Okay, the last one is my want. I freaking love the water in TW3.

 

I want Bioware to succeed. I want to have as many great rpg's as possible. I just feel they need to step up their game and maybe stop spanking their fans (the whole old gengate has really soured me, just saying).

 

Yeah. They're talking about worshipping it because they're doomed. That doesn't spell hopeless to you?

 

As for optional rifts eh I assumed those were just placed without story plotlines (outside of obviously the town one with the mayor and people DO react heavily to closing that one).

 

Believe I do feel DAI fell sort on some things but it feels in this people just slag on it and then on the hand prop W3 up and it's just "ehhh."

 

And yeah they never should've had the game on the old consoles that held DAI back in a lot of ways. The wishwashiness in the situation didn't help.

 

 

 

Dragon Age does not need to be as grim dark as TW3. The Inquisition setting would have been good enough for me had the the story been well done and presented well. I mean look at DAO, generic story, and aweful graphics to boot, but the presentation and build up is really well done and the reason why I'm still playing it from time to time to this day.

And... bloody hell those side quests in DAI did not need to happen. Majority of the quests are meaningless. I don't even mind if they don't mean anything, but they're not even remotely interesting. TW3 does that very very well imo.

As long as the story games wanted to tell is presented well in the game is good enough in my book.

 

Now this I agree this.

 

I don't even need a beautiful world. I just want to be immersed when playing a game, and collecting ram meats and wootnot did not do that for me. Same as why I can't play skyrim cuz its a little shallow on the story side.

 

But this. Hellz no. Besides. There's a mod for that.

[AmberDragon]

 
But this. Hellz no. Besides. There's a mod for that.

Not if you play on console there isn't! Not all of us can afford £2000 for a new gaming pc and some of us have disabilities that prevent us playing on pc anyway.

[Ryzaki]

Not if you play on console there isn't! Not all of us can afford £2000 for a new gaming pc and some of us have disabilities that prevent us playing on pc anyway.

 

Just wait.

 

Just wait.

 

Sooooooooooooon.

 

That said. If you can use a controller you can play on PC. Just plug in a controller.

[hoechlbear]

In DAI I had camped refugees who sat perfectly calmly while my Inquisitor battled freaking bears right next to them, my team actually standing in their camp, not a flicker of acknowledgement. Same goes for those stupid troops in DAI in the middle of nowhere with chests of worthless junk, they don't lift a finger to help if you battle near them. In W3 any soldiers close by when you are battling anything will pitch in and help.

 

Yeah, that's just one of the many things DA could learn from TW3. Stop putting cardboard cutouts in your games and give us NPCs that look and act like people. Many times I'm walking calmly through Novigrad when I hear screams and only then I see bandits coming my way to attack me. One time I had a guard helping me out too. And how many times did I press the attack button unintentionally and NPCs started screaming or saying things like "don't hurt me!" and cower in fear. Not to mention that you can bump into the NPCs, unlike DAI where you can try to go past someone but they will just stand there like a big rock.

[ashwind]

 

But this. Hellz no. Besides. There's a mod for that.

 

Common, Skyrim is good at many things but story is definitely not one of them

[ashwind]

Yeah, that's just one of the many things DA could learn from TW3. Stop putting cardboard cutouts in your games and give us NPCs that look and act like people. Many times I'm walking calmly through Novigrad when I hear screams and only then I see bandits coming my way to attack me. One time I had a guard helping me out too. And how many times did I press the attack button unintentionally and NPCs started screaming or saying things like "don't hurt me!" and cower in fear. Not to mention that you can bump into the NPCs, unlike DAI where you can try to go past someone but they will just stand there like a big rock.

 

That is something TW3 went overboard and got it wrong imo. I mean, I barely brushes some one and they scream like they have been hit by a horse.... come to think of it, they scream the same regardless if I bump into them or if I ram the horse into them

[AmberDragon]

Just wait.
 
Just wait.
 
Sooooooooooooon.
 
That said. If you can use a controller you can play on PC. Just plug in a controller.

I play on PS4 prefer the controller easier on my arthritic fingers, Yes I know I used to play on pc with a controller, unfortunately my pc is old and it is about £2000 for a gaming pc, on top of which I can't remain seated for too long due to a painful (as in chronic pain even with morphine) problem with my hips and spine... console gaming allows me to laydown and play as and when I need too (yes I know pc gaming could allow that too but again it boils down to the cost of a set up), was especially useful when I was undergoing chemo too as I was too weak to sit but could still game a little... yeah I know if I was a horse they would have shot me... LOL