15759 réponses à ce sujet

[CronoDragoon]

Going along with Velvet's point more than a few reviews highlighted both the excellence of the side quests and the somewhat underwhelming nature of the main quests (the IGN review even said the main quests implemented too much fetching within them).

 

That's a big exaggeration! I'm playing on the hardest difficulty and has had no problems with it. On this difficulty you need to dodge all the time and use Quen.

 

Ah, I see. And considering RPGs tend to get easier as you go I imagine it'll probably become less difficult. Thanks for letting me know, as I'll probably start out on the highest difficulty (does anyone know if there's a trophy for it?).

 

Again I think the moral ambiguity in DA:O is somewhat of a feint. It's like this extremely rigid black and white world (Darkspawn and Demons bad, Humans and Wardens good) with minor spheres of ambiguity contained within (Well, some humans are kind of good/evil, some Darkspawn are sometimes good/bad). It's generally speaking characters or mini-narratives that invoke the kind of morally ambiguous situations. The entire Dwarven/Orzammar campaign stands among those IMO. DA2 as was discussing earlier it was really just the blowing up the chantry part that caught my attention. DA:I it's really again more about individual characters.

 

In contrast TW where the Witcher has a pretty gray world in the aggregate, where it's not really clear which side would be good anyway (Nilfgard? The Elves? Humans? Dwarves? Rebels?) or why you should even care (Quest to find Yennefer, remedy relations with Triss, etc). I think preferences for that kind of situation are somewhat rarer though,

 

I really have to disagree with you that Dragon Age paints humans and Wardens as good. First, the main villains of the lore are the Tevinters, a human-mage supremacy group that is blamed for the greatest catastrophes the world has seen (the Blights). The Orlesians are hated by basically everyone for being conniving imperialists. I'd say only Ferelden has thus far been portrayed as a "relatable" country so to speak. Meanwhile, the Wardens are praised as heroes for defeating the Blight, but actual observance of their Order shows they leave much to be desired, morally. This is a bit harder to see in Origins when "the Wardens" are you and Alistair,  but the Joining at the beginning and Duncan's actions there don't paint a very favorable picture. DA: I and Last Flight really show just how cultish and pragmatic they are.

 

So that's one of the big arcs of DA: I, and the other is Orlais. I think it's safe to say based on Masked Empire and Wicked Hearts that there's no real altruist to root for here. All 3 candidates are ruthless and willing to kill, lie, and steal to get what they want. And that plot is notable for subverting the BioWare Golden Third Option and suggesting through dialogue, War Table, and epilogues that maybe getting all three to work together wasn't that great of a solution.

 

I'm not sure I understand your point about why you should care about characters contributing to the grey world. First, I felt the writers very much wanted me to care about Yennefer in The Witcher 2 through all the poorly implemented flashbacks.. Second, wouldn't it be better if the game gave you multiple good reasons to care about the characters? They did this well with the Act 2 split, after all.

[Natashina]

No longer relevant.

   

[TheOgre]

I prefer the combat in W3, even though it's kind of button mashy it has an action base, whereas DA:I's is complicated in a frustrating arbitrary feeling sense to me (similar to DA2).

 

Honestly the biggest tactic in DA games since Origins for me is the run around kiting mobs while mages/archers kill them or whatever which is goofy as sin.

 

I can sort of see what your saying with a lot of things but again for me that main story being grounded in kind of real people's emotions feelings and not the generic save the world thing is a pretty important difference though still, I just can't really get behind it a lot of the time. Someone like Corypheus I'm like... really? He might as well have just been a generic rogue decepticon busting in your castle.

 

 

 

Again I think the moral ambiguity in DA:O is somewhat of a feint. It's like this extremely rigid black and white world (Darkspawn and Demons bad, Humans and Wardens good) with minor spheres of ambiguity contained within (Well, some humans are kind of good/evil, some Darkspawn are sometimes good/bad). It's generally speaking characters or mini-narratives that invoke the kind of morally ambiguous situations. The entire Dwarven/Orzammar campaign stands among those IMO. DA2 as was discussing earlier it was really just the blowing up the chantry part that caught my attention. DA:I it's really again more about individual characters.

 

In contrast TW where the Witcher has a pretty gray world in the aggregate, where it's not really clear which side would be good anyway (Nilfgard? The Elves? Humans? Dwarves? Rebels?) or why you should even care (Quest to find Yennefer, remedy relations with Triss, etc). I think preferences for that kind of situation are somewhat rarer though,

 

Oh yeah, the darkspawn are white and black for sure. Not so sure about demons however, think back on that desire demon you encounter with the Templar. I could have freed him but would he really want to know his wife and child was dead the entire time? I don't think it's so white and black with demons, I'll pull a Solas on that one.

 

Orzammar with the golems I'd say it's white and black, which king should rule is a different story for me. Do I want the manipulative A hole, and progressive king or do I want the genuinely calm and collected king that wants to keep the Dwarves ruled by tradition and poverty stricken status in the past. 

[RINNZ]

How does DA:I beat TW3 in the main story factor if no one (to my knowledge) has even beaten the latter yet? No sense of urgency? How does DA:I's main quest have urgency?

FYI I enjoy both games very much. Just ppointing out some stuff.

[TheOgre]

 

You really think I just go, "Oh, well Ogre was being negative and this person was a smartass to him, so I'm going to instantly like the other person's post"?  If that's the case, then I am sorry if I'm come across that way.      

 

No -- just the other day, someone made a post that was aimed at me in a third person snark. "Some people can't tell the difference between acknowledging your race, and being written around your race"

 

Otherwise might have been a post I could have liked myself but it came off as snarky in the context that it was given. Sure, I can get behind that if it was Bioware's intend all along to make sure players don't feel like the game only centers about your racial heritage rather than the content of ones character. 

[Dieb]

The sidequests blow DA:I right out of the water so far.

 

However, the combat is still awful, and just absolutely not my taste. It was unpalatable in TW2, was unpalatable at GC (to the point where even the CDPR guy playing it for us at the event performed very awkwardly with that slightly-flinch-backwards motion spammed all the time) and it still is now. If I want action, I go to Dark Souls, if I want RPG-y math combat, I chose Dragon Age, really.

 

But you can't be good at everything.

[Shechinah]

Oh yeah, the darkspawn are white and black for sure. Not so sure about demons however, think back on that desire demon you encounter with the Templar. I could have freed him but would he really want to know his wife and child was dead the entire time? I don't think it's so white and black with demons, I'll pull a Solas on that one.

 

Orzammar with the golems I'd say it's white and black, which king should rule is a different story for me. Do I want the manipulative A hole, and progressive king or do I want the genuinely calm and collected king that wants to keep the Dwarves ruled by tradition and poverty stricken status in the past. 

If this is the Templar ensnared by the Desire Demon during the "Broken Circle" quest then he had no wife or children whatsoever. What he had was a desire for a family which the Desire Demon seized upon and took advantage of to create the illusion it trapped his mind in. He believed he had a wife and a child but they were created by the Desire Demon who even impersonates their voices.
 

[Natashina]

No -- just the other day, someone made a post that was aimed at me in a third person snark. "Some people can't tell the difference between acknowledging your race, and being written around your race"

 

Otherwise might have been a post I could have liked myself but it came off as snarky in the context that it was given. Sure, I can get behind that if it was Bioware's intend all along to make sure players don't feel like the game only centers about your racial heritage rather than the content of ones character. 

I think I remember what you're talking about.  Um, I didn't know it was supposed to be some sort of third person backhanded snark towards you.  I was liking that post because I have noticed folks that were being completely stubborn (and rude, which I know you usually aren't) about the issue, and I happened to agree with the person.  That wasn't me making any sort of snarky slight against you.  If the person I liked was, that's on them.  That wasn't my intent at all.  Ogre, if I was going to insult or be a smartass to you, I respect you enough as a poster and as a fellow RPG fan to say it to you directly.  

 

You've also liked comments that were snarky against me as well.  I don't take it personally.  Either you agreed with the other person, or they simply made you laugh.  Sometimes a like is just a like.  

 

Enough of that.  <hugs>  I think you're good people, and I would never set out to try to attack you.  Please don't take my likes personally, especially when I've been sick for the last few days.  

[TheOgre]

The problem with those long posts is that you can misconstrue everything unless you are willing to be super detailed about it, which I am not, sorry. My post was intended as just a few pointers to think about and not to dissect because each one of those things is a thread in itself (and several of them, if not all, already have a thread).

 

The general gist is that The Witcher 3 simply looks like a much more focused effort. It may not even be a better game for a lot of people and this is quite fair. But I think there is some borderline amateurish things in the Bioware game - TW3 doesn't have keyboard mapping (witch is bad), but DAI has a whole tactical function that works like garbage, probably costed money and time and doesn't even need to be used (aside from a few dragon fights on hard).

 

About the combat: I do not think DAI needs an even dumber combat (god forbid). I think that TW3 was kind enough to add a dumb option for people that just like to press buttons without thinking about it, like in DAI. In Witcher 3 the combat is more involved because you have to time your button presses, chose your loadout before almost every battle and you have to look at the screen.

 

My son will complete two years in a couple of months, he barely speaks and can kick ass in DAI with me moving the analog sticks once in a while (with the probable exception of some knights, bears and dragons). This kind of combat can be mindless fun (I found it fun on occasion), but it is not involved, it requires almost nothing from you.

 

Same thing with crafting. It is super cool, but with atrocious menus and no need to think about it much, since the game is so easy. You can build super strong stuff, you just do not need to. You can build specialized stuff, but you do not need to.

 

I get that you only like to read essays about the game, but I hope you understand that if I am going to go into the level of detail you want I will probably write three pages - and would need pictures - and the discussion is long enough as it is.

 

There is another guy that also disagreed with most of what I said. I think he understood perfectly my criticisms and I understood perfectly his counterpoints, I didn't even reply to him (or her). NO need for examples, nothing.

 

I think any designer at Bioware (and almost anyone on these forums, really) can perfectly understand my points, because there is a context to them. There is countless of threads about the game crash issues, the poor PC interface, the poor performance (which can be related to bugs in the code, but not gameplay bugs), the lousy side quests, the "consolitis" of the menus and so on. The idea is not to explain in detail each of my points, but to provide general feedback on what I think Bioware can improve.

 

Please, see my post as a corroboration of what has been already discussed to death and not the first post about all those topics. 

 

But I did pull the trigger too soon on the stability issue. The game ran so beautifully at my PC, though.

 

I reread some of these posts -- I don't think anyone's been that condescending toward me before. Was trying to find some of the ones I liked that I came across with a possible backhand. Sorry about that remark and the ones I may have clicked "Liked this" on. I didn't read his post to be honest because it seemed like a Wall of Text (no offense poster).

[TheOgre]

If this is the Templar ensnared by the Desire Demon during the "Broken Circle" quest then he had no wife or children whatsoever. What he had was a desire for a family which the Desire Demon seized upon and took advantage of to create the illusion it trapped his mind in. He believed he had a wife and a child but they were created by the Desire Demon who even impersonates their voices.
 

 

Eeessh I'm rusty, I don't have my ps3 anymore thanks to "Hey do you use that?" questions from family. My default answer now adays are "Yes and I'm not looking to part with it anytime soon". Unwilling to spend but may have to now, or rewatch some youtube videos.

[Natashina]

I reread some of these posts -- I don't think anyone's been that condescending toward me before. Was trying to find some of the ones I liked that I came across with a possible backhand. Sorry about that remark and the ones I may have clicked "Liked this" on. I didn't read his post to be honest because it seemed like a Wall of Text (no offense poster).

It's all good and you're more than forgiven.  Again, if you agreed with someone's comment to one of my posts (even if they were being a smartass or rude) or if they made you laugh, then use that like system to your heart's content.  I'll never take it personally.  I usually don't keep track.  I've been enjoying your TW3 feedback and comparisons.  

 

Sorry about the weird ranting and posts from me last night, everyone.  

[Octarin]

Just to ask, top of my head here, seeing as Witcher 3 officially released yesterday, all these people doing all these detailed comparisons between the two games have already managed to finish both? And if so, then FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, WHY?! Well, anyway, I would ask, if I believed in God. Just a creepy-crawly thought at the back of my head. 

[The Elder King]

Just to ask, top of my head here, seeing as Witcher 3 officially released yesterday, all these people doing all these detailed comparisons between the two games have already managed to finish both? And if so, then FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, WHY?! Well, anyway, I would ask, if I believed in God. Just a creepy-crawly thought at the back of my head.

I think they're making comparisons based on what they played so far. Nobody said they finished the game

[Dutch]

I have about 16hours in the Witcher 3. I'm currently in the second area Velen and completed almost everything in white orchard. In those 16 hours there was more choice, meaningful side quests, tons of cinematic content compared to 100hours of Dragon Age Inquisiton. If a studio like CDPR can hit it out of the ball park why can't Bioware?

It seems to me more and more each day that DA:I was a cheap cashin to make the overlords money. No innovation whatsoever like the Witcher 3. I mean in Witcher 3 you have a beard&hair growth simulator for Geralt!

[Shechinah]

Eeessh I'm rusty, I don't have my ps3 anymore thanks to "Hey do you use that?" questions from family. My default answer now adays are "Yes and I'm not looking to part with it anytime soon". Unwilling to spend but may have to now, or rewatch some youtube videos.

 

Don't worry, that's what I'm here for; lore, characters, story and interpretations.
 

[The Elder King]

I have about 16hours in the Witcher 3. I'm currently in the second area Velen and completed almost everything in white orchard. In those 16 hours there was more choice, meaningful side quests, tons of cinematic content compared to 100hours of Dragon Age Inquisiton. If a studio like CDPR can hit it out of the ball park why can't Bioware?
It seems to me more and more each day that DA:I was a cheap cashin to make the overlords money. No innovation whatsoever like the Witcher 3. I mean in Witcher 3 you have a beard&hair growth simulator for Geralt!

First, I don't think what CDPR achieved (base on what People Are saying) in the side quest area is something easy to do.
I do think that Bioware should improve in this area, but I think CDPR did something outstanding.
I don't think DAI is a Cheap cashin. Otherwise they wouldn't have bothered to create open world area to begin with.

[Shechinah]

It seems to me more and more each day that DA:I was a cheap cashin to make the overlords money. No innovation whatsoever like the Witcher 3. I mean in Witcher 3 you have a beard&hair growth simulator for Geralt!

 

You know what game also had that? The console version of "The Sims 2: Castaway"!

It is not a new thing. The game was stellar and I actually consider the console version better than the PC version. It's a shame it went under so many radars apparently. It even had an interesting crafting system, I seem to recall, which had you gather the materials you required for constructing tools and things you needed to construct more objects some of which like glass, you could only make in certain areas. You caught food by spear, plucked food from bushes or trees and could gather clamps.
 

[TheOgre]

I have about 16hours in the Witcher 3. I'm currently in the second area Velen and completed almost everything in white orchard. In those 16 hours there was more choice, meaningful side quests, tons of cinematic content compared to 100hours of Dragon Age Inquisiton. If a studio like CDPR can hit it out of the ball park why can't Bioware?

It seems to me more and more each day that DA:I was a cheap cashin to make the overlords money. No innovation whatsoever like the Witcher 3. I mean in Witcher 3 you have a beard&hair growth simulator for Geralt!

 

I would have liked a bit more customization with Geralt (haven't payed for it yet) but have been watching streams.. The hair cutting is nice but yeah, otherwise like his look despite it being locked in.

[Octarin]

I have about 16hours in the Witcher 3. I'm currently in the second area Velen and completed almost everything in white orchard. In those 16 hours there was more choice, meaningful side quests, tons of cinematic content compared to 100hours of Dragon Age Inquisiton. If a studio like CDPR can hit it out of the ball park why can't Bioware?

It seems to me more and more each day that DA:I was a cheap cashin to make the overlords money. No innovation whatsoever like the Witcher 3. I mean in Witcher 3 you have a beard&hair growth simulator for Geralt!

 

I already more than agree that Witcher 3 is quite possibly a far superior game, I'm just wondering at the people who come to grandiose detailed conclusions already. Just that. Personally, I'm gonna disappear again from this thread as a matter of fact, cause I don't wanna spoil myself, seeing as I haven't gotten W3 yet.

[Shechinah]

I already more than agree that Witcher 3 is quite possibly a far superior game, I'm just wondering at the people who come to grandiose detailed conclusions already. Just that. Personally, I'm gonna disappear again from this thread as a matter of fact, cause I don't wanna spoil myself, seeing as I haven't gotten W3 yet.

 

From what I have heard and read, you have something to look forward to playing
 

[In Exile]

I think we need a clear definition of cinematics. CDPR uses very few cinematics in TW3, and then only in the main quests and largley tied with camera perspective. To put it differently, they use cinematics the way DA:O or KoTOR used cinematics - as a perspective framing device. Since ME2/DA2 Bioware has invested a lot in creating a lot of complex, hand-crafted scenes that require a lot of fine detail that's really movie-like in its approach and expensive resource wise. I've always felt that this approach was a complete waste of resources., but it's how Bioware went with it. CDPR simply doesn't (they also have the advance of resources by not having companions; I think people really underestimate what resource hogs companions are in Bioware games).

 

Anyway, I just think we need to be clear on how we use those terms. When I use cinematics, I mean more than just the camera perspective. Seeing as how other people use it differently I'm going to adjust my meaning and add this as feedback:

 

1) Bioware needs to stop wasting resources on cinematic details that, in the end, no one cares about for the most part (Varric twirling his arrow in the DA2 introduction being a good one). 

 

 

It seems to me more and more each day that DA:I was a cheap cashin to make the overlords money. No innovation whatsoever like the Witcher 3. I mean in Witcher 3 you have a beard&hair growth simulator for Geralt!

 

I wasn't going to mention it but I hate the **** out of this beard growth thing. Shaving is a pain in the ass IRL, but now I have to do it multiple times in a single gaming session? Ugh.  

[TheOgre]

 

I wasn't going to mention it but I hate the **** out of this beard growth thing. Shaving is a pain in the ass IRL, but now I have to do it multiple times in a single gaming session? Ugh.  

 

can get behind most of that, sadly though the beard part's like one of the only ways to feel any kind of control over what Geralt looks like. 

[Seraphim24]

I really have to disagree with you that Dragon Age paints humans and Wardens as good. First, the main villains of the lore are the Tevinters, a human-mage supremacy group that is blamed for the greatest catastrophes the world has seen (the Blights). The Orlesians are hated by basically everyone for being conniving imperialists. I'd say only Ferelden has thus far been portrayed as a "relatable" country so to speak. Meanwhile, the Wardens are praised as heroes for defeating the Blight, but actual observance of their Order shows they leave much to be desired, morally. This is a bit harder to see in Origins when "the Wardens" are you and Alistair,  but the Joining at the beginning and Duncan's actions there don't paint a very favorable picture. DA: I and Last Flight really show just how cultish and pragmatic they are.

 

So that's one of the big arcs of DA: I, and the other is Orlais. I think it's safe to say based on Masked Empire and Wicked Hearts that there's no real altruist to root for here. All 3 candidates are ruthless and willing to kill, lie, and steal to get what they want. And that plot is notable for subverting the BioWare Golden Third Option and suggesting through dialogue, War Table, and epilogues that maybe getting all three to work together wasn't that great of a solution.

 

The Tevinters, Wardens, and Orlesians are all alternately not present and present in each game though. DA:O was in Fereldan. DA2 was in Kirkwall. DA3 is in Orlay. Whatever conflicts they might have they don't for the purposes of the game, it's some distant thing. There's no plot where Orlay and Fereldan finally clash in an epic showdown or something (like the rebels and Henselt in W2).

 

Besides I'm not sure if we're really disagreeing if as I saying it's not that DA is absent those conflicts but what is the major key signature or corresponding modulation. For instance, the major tonal focus of TW is gray (or lets say A minor), it modulates into other tones, like C major or something, but the song is in A minor.

 

Whereas yeah, DA shifts into A minor (I believe my OP said some humans bad, some darkspawn good), such as within the Wardens to a degree, or in the background (Orlay as the malevolent empire), but they're all written in C major.

 

For practical purposes, no matter how much modulation, the song starts and ends in C major, or in this instance, with humanity banding together to crush the great harmful evil (DA2 kind of opts to break that distinction but then Meredith turns all superevil mutant thingy basically)

 

I haven't read any of the DA novels or anything I should say.

 

My point about TW2 was not that people don't care, but that it wasn't the "save the world kind of caring" it was just about individuals and their specific reasons and feelings, etc.

[In Exile]

can get behind most of that, sadly though the beard part's like one of the only ways to feel any kind of control over what Geralt looks like. 

Geralt looks awesome with the beard. I just happen to have really scratchy hair if I let it grow in. So all I can think of when I see that bear grow is how it must itch like crazy and I don't just want to shave him, I want to shave myself one more time for good measure. Did I mention I hate the **** out of beards?

 

Anyway this isn't a real criticism - if anything it's just me being a bit of a headcase. 

[bondari reloads.]

All this talk about quest design makes me wonder just how a blank slate protagonist stands in the way of W3-style side quests?

 

We had Hawke before, and as far as I know there are actually people who felt DA2 had a more involved world in which Hawke interacted with people to a greater extent than the Inq. Strange to realize that Hawke was probably the best of both worlds (I still like DAI better overall).

 

Is a DAI-style protagonist forever subjected to merely picking herbs and gathering ram meat? I'm being very unfair here. I'm greedy that way, I want both.