15885 réponses à ce sujet

[Wolven_Soul]

This? This is damn near every quest in the game for me. I won't say it's every quest, but there are so many that it's more of a problem than in any RPG I've ever played, and I'm not even exaggerating. I thought Oblivion's level-scaling really led to a general feel of "these quest rewards aren't so hot compared to stuff I could get in Morrowind..",  and Bethesda actually managed to top that by adding crafting into Skyrim.

 

"What's the point in questing when the rewards are generally lousy, and when I can cobble up a better item after going to a few merchants and throwing it together myself?" I thought, saying that it couldn't get any worse. Then Bioware goes and does it.

 

The point I really began to notice was when I visited the Lost Temple of Whatsit, which apparently hadn't been touched since the ancient era. Fine, I thought, it's likely to have something nice. Nope, just the same randomly-generated crap across the board. At the end? A shield, and one that was worse than the randomly-dropped shield I'd already been using. Far, far worse than any of the shields I could craft at that point.

 

DAO at least had some great payoffs for the quests you'd recieve. A unique weapon, or great armor. In DAI, I'm lucky if I find something worth more than a pittance.

 

Man I am so with you here.  DA:I probably has the worst loot in any game I have ever played.  Cool loot should be one of the easiest parts of making an RPG I would think.  I mean, it oughta be a no brainer.  The worst part is the freaking accessories.  Holy crap they are so...so....so freaking bad.  The rings and amulets you could get in DA:O were excellent.  Really, really excellent.  I really don't know how they managed to screw this part of the game up so bad.  I mean...the only thing I can think of is that they were sitting around in their board room and someone actually asked the question...."What can we do to really make this game worse?"

[Wolven_Soul]

Oh come on, shards support the lore? Maybe there existence does, but you're telling me that in all the history of thedas, nobody has ever used those special viewing scopes except the inquisitor to find the shards scattered on the ground? Nobody ever got curious? A soldier never looked through one and collected the little magic things in one of those areas? And in all the world, the inquisitor stumbles randomly upon every single one for the temple in all the necessary areas just because? And for that matter, why are they randomly scatted on the ground, and if they are the ones used for tranquils, why do they open an ancient demon temple?

It's rediculous. It makes no sense. It's also one of the most tedious things in the game, sure it's optional, but the first time doing it to see what happened was a chore. It was painful, and the payoff? Yay, a pride demon with extra health and a couple of stat boosts. Where's the story? Where's the dialogue? Where's the explanation and the opponent worth facing?

Anyway, it was truly lazy quest design. The world shouldn't be built for a single central character, a quest can be, small things like caches of good, absolutely, but not a feature in like 8 different environments. It's like how rifts don't affect a damn thing until the inquisitor is in range, no impact on the environment, no impact if you leave them and don't close them. Bad environment design. The inquisitor should be a player in a living world, it should at least maintain the illusion of going on around him. But no, magic doohickeys scattered across the land, all destined to be used only by one man or woman.

I can believe the inquisitor fell into an unexpected situation with the magic rift hand, but not that a world that's alive has features in every corner of the land that he just stumbles into and nobody else ever used.

 

Yeah, it would have been really neat if, for instance, you go to that castle in the Hinterlands where they have that rift in the back, and rather than just letting you charge in and close it, the people there try and stop you, claiming you were sent by the demons to undo the Maker's work.  You get the option to talk sense into them, use force to cow them, or simply turn around and leave them to their rift.  And if you do this, you find out later that the demons from that rift slaughter everyone in the castle, or even that they all get possessed and turn into abominations making the rift that much harder to close the next time you go there,

[Saphiron123]

Yeah, it would have been really neat if, for instance, you go to that castle in the Hinterlands where they have that rift in the back, and rather than just letting you charge in and close it, the people there try and stop you, claiming you were sent by the demons to undo the Maker's work.  You get the option to talk sense into them, use force to cow them, or simply turn around and leave them to their rift.  And if you do this, you find out later that the demons from that rift slaughter everyone in the castle, or even that they all get possessed and turn into abominations making the rift that much harder to close the next time you go there,

I thought it'd be cool if they had an effect on the environment, twist the tress, drive the animals crazy, have demons attacking refugees etc... but no, all the same, every time.

[ashwind]

Anyone remember the Black Pearl quest in The Witcher 3? I've seen many people complaining about the difficulty in keeping the quest giver alive on harder difficulties and how the reward (10 Crowns) wasn't worth it. I for one thought that Nidas's bittersweet reveal of why he wanted the black pearl was really cool and him being only able to give you 10 Crowns makes sense story wise when you consider the difficulties Nidas may have went through in caring for his ill wife. 

 

Keeping him alive is a not that hard.....

 

Try keeping Mia alive. I must have reloaded half a dozen times trying to keep Mia alive.

 

The reward for keeping Mia alive, nothing. Simply a remark from Geralt but it was fun as hell 

 

For those who wonder who Mia is... or more appropriately what Mia is, Mia is the sheep in Contract: Dragons

 

I think CDPR also cunningly called the Inquisitor a Sheep Dog in that quest. Just curious, how many of you actually did that quest like how the Inquisitor "sheep dog" the halla? Because you are suppose to do the same to Mia the sheep ... or do you?     

 

[edit]

This is the contract for those who cant remember.

Modifié par ashwind, 02 août 2015 - 09:47 .

[Elhanan]

Oh come on, shards support the lore? Maybe there existence does, but you're telling me that in all the history of thedas, nobody has ever used those special viewing scopes except the inquisitor to find the shards scattered on the ground? Nobody ever got curious? A soldier never looked through one and collected the little magic things in one of those areas? And in all the world, the inquisitor stumbles randomly upon every single one for the temple in all the necessary areas just because? And for that matter, why are they randomly scatted on the ground, and if they are the ones used for tranquils, why do they open an ancient demon temple?

It's rediculous. It makes no sense. It's also one of the most tedious things in the game, sure it's optional, but the first time doing it to see what happened was a chore. It was painful, and the payoff? Yay, a pride demon with extra health and a couple of stat boosts. Where's the story? Where's the dialogue? Where's the explanation and the opponent worth facing?
Anyway, it was truly lazy quest design. The world shouldn't be built for a single central character, a quest can be, small things like caches of good, absolutely, but not a feature in like 8 different environments. It's like how rifts don't affect a damn thing until the inquisitor is in range, no impact on the environment, no impact if you leave them and don't close them. Bad environment design. The inquisitor should be a player in a living world, it should at least maintain the illusion of going on around him. But no, magic doohickeys scattered across the land, all destined to be used only by one man or woman.

I can believe the inquisitor fell into an unexpected situation with the magic rift hand, but not that a world that's alive has features in every corner of the land that he just stumbles into and nobody else ever used.

Seems to assume that other Shards have not been found, that the ones located in the game are the only ones extant, and that they originate on this side of the Veil. Also assumes that once the quest is completed, it ends the story. Best not to assume....

As for payoff, it was one of the better bonuses available: +20% permanent elemental resistance plus items to create +50% resist. Perhaps not every Player find them as helpful as myself, but I am quite pleased with the rewards, esp when playing JoH and gaining even more, and needing it.

As for design, seems no less immersive than a mini-game using current events....

[panzerwzh]

Keeping him alive is a not that hard.....

 

Try keeping Mia alive. I must have reloaded half a dozen times trying to keep Mia alive.

 

The reward for keeping Mia alive, nothing. Simply a remark from Geralt but it was fun as hell 

 

For those who wonder who Mia is... or more appropriately what Mia is, Mia is the sheep in Contract: Dragons

 

I think CDPR also cunningly called the Inquisitor a Sheep Dog in that quest. Just curious, how many of you actually did that quest like how the Inquisitor "sheep dog" the halla? Because you are suppose to do the same to Mia the sheep ... or do you?     

 

[edit]

This is the contract for those who cant remember.

My Mia always go with a bomb, the bravest lamb in history.

[rashie]

There are no chapters in the Witcher 3... I call BS. It's an open world and you're free to go where you please. And if it bores you, then no rpg will ever satisfy you.

Edit: Like, seriously dude, if you're going to lie about something you've never tried, at least do your research first... do you even know what color Geralt's eyes are? I'll give you time to google it.

Its technically not labelled up into acts but a lot of people commonly split the game up into 3 of them, however if the player is still with the game by the time they reach "act" 2, they wouldn't post a complaint like that considering just how far in it is, personally I reached that point at around 90 hours in or so.

 

Yeah, it would have been really neat if, for instance, you go to that castle in the Hinterlands where they have that rift in the back, and rather than just letting you charge in and close it, the people there try and stop you, claiming you were sent by the demons to undo the Maker's work.  You get the option to talk sense into them, use force to cow them, or simply turn around and leave them to their rift.  And if you do this, you find out later that the demons from that rift slaughter everyone in the castle, or even that they all get possessed and turn into abominations making the rift that much harder to close the next time you go there,

I wonder just how much of this didn't happen because they had to get the game working on xbox 360/PS3, I know I have seen mentions of old gen consoles and something else that didn't make it into the game, which is defending keeps you held like the one in the western approach from assaults.

[Elhanan]

Some may have missed these: a few off the first Search page of reviews that praise exploration in DAI:


http://kotaku.com/11...itio-1657127952

http://www.polygon.c...laystation-4-pc

http://www.trustedre...uisition-review

http://www.usgamer.n...tion-ps4-review

http://www.destructo...on-283093.phtml

It would seem that what some see as the majority and others differs a bit....

[Elhanan]

I thought it'd be cool if they had an effect on the environment, twist the tress, drive the animals crazy, have demons attacking refugees etc... but no, all the same, every time.

Like the wolves and soldiers in the Hinterlands and Exalted Plains for example. Yes, it is cool.

[KBomb]

I'll tell you what the DA doesn't have, but needs: Water mechanics. Swimming, hunting treasures, boats and underwater battle, and of course, sea animals.This has been one of my favorite features in TW3. 

 

And as for the implication that hunting down shards is just as immersive as Gwent, Fight clubs and horse races or which ever mini-game that is based on "current events"..

 

Spoiler

 

[blahblahblah]

I'll tell you what the DA doesn't have, but needs: Water mechanics. Swimming, hunting treasures, boats and underwater battle, and of course, sea animals.This has been one of my favorite features in TW3. 

 

And as for the implication that hunting down shards is just as immersive as Gwent, Fight clubs and horse races or which ever mini-game that is based on "current events"..

 

Spoiler

 

At the cost of removing the half of companions and party banter.......well that's okay.

[KBomb]

At the cost of removing the half of companions and party banter.......well that's okay.

What would cause them to remove half of the companions and party banter? Underwater mechanics? Absolutely false, if so.

[Xetykins]

At the cost of removing the half of companions and party banter.......well that's okay.

Does not have to be just need to calm down with those almost empty boring maps, there's really no need for those. And the almost useless advisors.

And I agree. Companions and banters should be left alone. That's pretty much the last bastion of bioware integrity for me. Whatever else they screwed up, the companions remained my favorite.

[rashie]

What would cause them to remove half of the companions and party banter? Underwater mechanics? Absolutely false, if so.

Last I heard swimming was cut because it made it possible to glitch under the map in DA:I, there are supposedly a bunch of technical issues behind it.

[blahblahblah]

What would cause them to remove half of the companions and party banter? Underwater mechanics? Absolutely false, if so.

Everything that you praise in TW3 especially the open world environment, day and night cycles, better animations and lastly Gwent.

[Xetykins]

Everything that you praise in TW3 especially the open world environment, day and night cycles, better animations and lastly Gwent.

Well, look at it as all those above is the equivalent of having those companions for you. CDPR managed to have both and more. So it's not unrealistic imho.

[Luqer]

I'll tell you what the DA doesn't have, but needs: Water mechanics. Swimming, hunting treasures, boats and underwater battle, and of course, sea animals.This has been one of my favorite features in TW3. 

 

And as for the implication that hunting down shards is just as immersive as Gwent, Fight clubs and horse races or which ever mini-game that is based on "current events"..

 

Spoiler

 

I actually don't think of the underwater battles in TW3 as anything special, really. I do however, appreciate that swimming and going underwater is actually possible in the game, thus making things feel less restricted. Although realistically, underwater battles couldn't possible be any fun to begin with. The only game I know that made underwater battles fun was Monster Hunter 3.

[Elhanan]

'Useless advisors' have personal quests, can offer romance stories, may enter combat; even have cut-scenes. Sounds like it may be TW3 approved....

[KBomb]

Everything that you praise in TW3 especially the open world environment, day and night cycles, better animations and lastly Gwent.

Are you serious? Firstly, DAI already has an open world-- it's just not up to par. They can improve it and not have to do away with companions to do so. They had a night/day cycle in DA2, all they need to do is expand on it, again I don't see how that would force them to rid themselves of companions.

Not sure if I stated I wanted better animations, but either way, they don't have to get rid of companions to do it. And Gwent or in DAI's case, a mini-game of Wicked Grace wouldn't do away with companions.

As for banter, it isn't like there is banter all the time. Banter is triggered by areas that you're in, so I doubt going to a pub and sitting down for a quick game of Wicked Grace is going to make you miss anything.

That being said, do you have proof that any of those things would result in omitting those things, or is that just an assumption on your part?

Here is the thing, I have seen a lot of people use that as a defence as to why the game lacks certain mechanics and quests. "Oh, you'd have to lose companions!"

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I can tell you that I wouldn't mind them getting rid of the multitude of fetch quests, mounts that absolutely have no benefit, and a few other asinine design choices if it meant they would allocate those resources to a better, more fleshed out game.

If your engine is hindering you from making a game that is on par with the competition-- get another. If you don't have resources to implement mechanics that will make your game better, get rid of redundant fetch quests and other mechanics that are just there as filler.

If other companies can succeed in this, I see no reason why Bioware can't. They aren't some little mom and pop company. It's a tired excuse to say, "If you want them to improve your game, fine-- but they'll have to get rid of the things you love most!" It sounds like a deflection and a way to have people say, "We'll have a substandard game, but we have no choice, we need our companions!" I say Bioware can do both. It's a challenge they have yet to undertake.

[KBomb]

I actually don't think of the underwater battles in TW3 as anything special, really. I do however, appreciate that swimming and going underwater is actually possible in the game, thus making things feel less restricted. Although realistically, underwater battles couldn't possible be any fun to begin with. The only game I know that made underwater battles fun was Monster Hunter 3.

That's your opinion and that's okay. Personally I like knowing there is danger in the murky depths. You're not safe anywhere, etc. Is it special and unique? Meh. Is it fun and fits in with the flow of the game? IMO, yes.

TW3 has sea bound creatures in their lore, would be off kilter to go into the water and have none attack you. I think it's an aspect that keeps you in your toes.

That being said, I would be entirely happy with swimming and hunting for treasure in DAI. Boats and battles would just be the icing. Throwing a few creatures in, would be exciting to boot.

[ashwind]

My Mia always go with a bomb, the bravest lamb in history.

 

      ... So I am probably the only one who fought to save Mia. 

[blahblahblah]

Are you serious? Firstly, DAI already has an open world-- it's just not up to par. They can improve it and not have to do away with companions to do so. They had a night/day cycle in DA2, all they need to do is expand on it, again I don't see how that would force them to rid themselves of companions.

Not sure if I stated I wanted better animations, but either way, they don't have to get rid of companions to do it. And Gwent or in DAI's case, a mini-game of Wicked Grace wouldn't do away with companions.

As for banter, it isn't like there is banter all the time. Banter is triggered by areas that you're in, so I doubt going to a pub and sitting down for a quick game of Wicked Grace is going to make you miss anything.

That being said, do you have proof that any of those things would result in omitting those things, or is that just an assumption on your part?

Here is the thing, I have seen a lot of people use that as a defence as to why the game lacks certain mechanics and quests. "Oh, you'd have to lose companions!"

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I can tell you that I wouldn't mind them getting rid of the multitude of fetch quests, mounts that absolutely have no benefit, and a few other asinine design choices if it meant they would allocate those resources to a better, more fleshed out game.

If your engine is hindering you from making a game that is on par with the competition-- get another. If you don't have resources to implement mechanics that will make your game better, get rid of redundant fetch quests and other mechanics that are just there as filler.

If other companies can succeed in this, I see no reason why Bioware can't. They aren't some little mom and pop company. It's a tired excuse to say, "If you want them to improve your game, fine-- but they'll have to get rid of the things you love most!" It sounds like a deflection and a way to have people say, "We'll have a substandard game, but we have no choice, we need our companions!" I say Bioware can do both. It's a challenge they have yet to undertake.

It's about resource management, companions and party banter are expensive to make.

[blahblahblah]

Well, look at it as all those above is the equivalent of having those companions for you. CDPR managed to have both and more. So it's not unrealistic imho.

CDPR has cheaper dev cost than Bioware has. TW3 is only $32 million.

[MoonDrummer]

CDPR has cheaper dev cost than Bioware has. TW3 is only $32 million.

Sack the guy who made the Golden Halla quest. That should help. 

[Luqer]

That's your opinion and that's okay. Personally I like knowing there is danger in the murky depths. You're not safe anywhere, etc. Is it special and unique? Meh. Is it fun and fits in with the flow of the game? IMO, yes.

TW3 has sea bound creatures in their lore, would be off kilter to go into the water and have none attack you. I think it's an aspect that keeps you in your toes.

That being said, I would be entirely happy with swimming and hunting for treasure in DAI. Boats and battles would just be the icing. Throwing a few creatures in, would be exciting to boot.

I think future DA games would be fine without swimming. In some quests in TW3, quite often do other characters decline to swim underwater themselves to retrieve an item preferring to have Geralt go underwater to retrieve the item for them. Why? Because getting wet is very uncomfortable and inconvenient. TW3 has us playing as only one protagonist only who can choose to go underwater at any time they wish without worrying about burdening others of the horrors of wet clothes.

 

In a game like DA which is all about controlling a party most of the time, it just seems a bit of stretch to believe that your companions would immediately follow you into deep waters without a second thought especially if its just for the sake of going underwater instead of being tied to a quest. Think of characters like Vivienne or Dorian. They would definitely hesitate to swim underwater.

 

However, Assassin's Creed 4 does provide a good example of underwater segments that make sense. In AC4, underwater swimming can only be initiated at certain zones where only the player character would go underwater to retrieve loot. Prior to that, the pirate crew would drop oxygen barrels giving a sense that some degree of preparation was done which is pretty cool. Future DA games could do something similar where only after reaching the appropriate zone can the player character, together with the right companions who have experience in swimming underwater, would go underwater to retrieve loot or entering dungeons while battling underwater creatures.