15862 réponses à ce sujet

[line_genrou]

 

Are you really trying to use the "you didn't play DAO!" to try to discredit my arguement?

 

There were 3 wardens in Fereldan if you need a refresher.

 

Alistair.

 

Riordan.

 

Warden PC.

 

Riordan in his "wisdom" instead of recruting from the ARMY at freaking Redcliffe (there was an army there FYI) decided to recruit one man named Loghain. One. And this man is one who the Alistair (one of the three already there wardens) threatened leave over. Let's do the math shall we?

 

3 + 1 = 4 - 1 = 3.

 

Huh.

 

Right back where we started.

 

That's not a gain is it?

 

Get it yet?

HAHA what?

I hope you know that if Alistair leaves, Loghain enters so you end up with the same amount of grey wardens, mate. Three.

Yeah, let's recruit some nobody from the army of Redcliffe to fight alongside Grey wardens and we end up with 4 people! Yay. You make absolutely no sense. You are just complaining for the sake of complaining.

 

What is your "math" even supposed to show aside from your nonsense argument?

[line_genrou]

And that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the Archedemon. That's why Riordan opened his mouth. He needed more bodies for the archedemon. (My fault for saying darkspawn I suppose) He tells you as much once you speak to him at redcliffe. They needed as much wardens as possible so they had as many chances to kill the archedemon as possible.

 

I never ignored DAO's faults. DAO's final chapter is mindboggling facepalm inducing at points.

 

Still way better than "omg Corypheous is suddenly here! Let's kill him without our big Inquisition forces that we've been building for a while now!"

[FKA_Servo]

HAHA what?

I hope you know that if Alistair leaves, Loghain enters so you end up with the same amount of grey wardens, mate. Three.

Yeah, let's recruit some nobody from the army of Redcliffe to fight alongside Grey wardens and we end up with 4 people! Yay. You make absolutely no sense. You are just complaining for the sake of complaining.

 

What is your "math" even supposed to show aside from your nonsense argument?

 

You're completely ignoring or missing Ryzaki's point.

 

An archdemon is a pretty big deal, and only grey wardens can kill arch demons. The smart thing would be to shoot for way, way more than three.

 

A nobody grunt (ideally, many) who's younger and stronger and who survives the joining is a whole lot more useful than Loghain, a great (and elderly) general when you need to kill an archdemon.

 

This is why the thread is 350 pages.

[Ryzaki]

HAHA what?

I hope you know that if Alistair leaves, Loghain enters so you end up with the same amount of grey wardens, mate. Three.

Yeah, let's recruit some nobody from the army of Redcliffe to fight alongside Grey wardens and we end up with 4 people! Yay. You make absolutely no sense. You are just complaining for the sake of complaining.

 

What is your "math" even supposed to show aside from your nonsense argument?

 

 

Man the last legs of a pathetic argument are hilarious to watch.

 

Maybe you can try reading again it might make more sense then. The math might make more sense too. Don't worry it'll come if you think hard enough.

 

I do love how you're so defensive because we all know I can't like both DAO and DAI and criticize both of them. Oh noes. That can't be the case.

[Elhanan]

Still way better than "omg Corypheous is suddenly here! Let's kill him without our big Inquisition forces that we've been building for a while now!"

The Inq forces are elsewhere at this juncture, and the vast majority of Cory's forces being gone left this surprise attack as a final chance at success.

[line_genrou]

Anime guy/gal, here's what you seem to have a problem understading:

 

 

Experienced General/Biggest general in Thedas > common soldier from the army of Redcliffe

Logically, Loghain has more experience than Alistair in the battlefield. Trading him for Loghain benefits the Grey wardens.

 

There you go.

[FKA_Servo]

The Inq forces are elsewhere at this juncture, and the vast majority of Cory's forces being gone left this surprise attack as a final chance at success.

 

And also, Inquisition's ending is weak and bad, and many of the game's proponents readily admit this, so...

[Elhanan]

Anime guy/gal, here's what you seem to have a problem understading:
 
 
Experienced General/Biggest general in Thedas > common soldier from the army of Redcliffe
Logically, Loghain has more experience than Alistair in the battlefield. Trading him for Loghain benefits the Grey wardens.
 
There you go.

Loghain's previous stand led to the death of the King, the Wardens, and many, many troops. Not a great bullet point on a resume....

[line_genrou]

 

Man the last legs of a pathetic argument are hilarious to watch.

 

Maybe you can try reading again it might make more sense then. The math might make more sense too. Don't worry it'll come if you think hard enough.

 

I do love how you're so defensive because we all know I can't like both DAO and DAI and criticize both of them. Oh noes. That can't be the case.

 

The problem is not the math, it's because you have no logic behind your argument because you seem to not grasp the simple fact that a general is worth 2 or more Alistairs in the battlefield.

 

I'm done with you and your condescending attitude. Go back to watch anime.

[Ryzaki]

Anime guy/gal, here's what you seem to have a problem understading:

 

 

Experienced General/Biggest general in Thedas > common soldier from the army of Redcliffe

Logically, Loghain has more experience than Alistair in the battlefield. Trading him for Loghain benefits the Grey wardens.

 

There you go.

 

First off name's Ryzaki not that hard to use it. Shorter than anime guy/gal anyway. Second off Experience general means squat when the warden's been commanding the forces all this time (and indeed continues to command said forces. Loghain does diddly squat except act like a grunt strange you don't seem to recall that), also if you want to bring up the benefits of Alistair Alistair having fought at the wardens side all that time is far more valuable than Loghain due to the warden and him simply being used to each other and knowing how each other fight compared to the warden having to adapt to Loghain and also happens to be in his fighting prime and finally none of this is relevant to what the wardens actual purpose was they were meat sacks for the archedemon. They were there to die. Experience was not required for that other than to stick the sword in the beast and every single soldier could do that.

[FKA_Servo]

I do love how you're so defensive because we all know I can't like both DAO and DAI and criticize both of them. Oh noes. That can't be the case.

 

You don't know the half of it.

 

I've been playing The Witcher, and I'm really enjoying it. But since I can't enjoy more than one thing at once, or hold more than one opinion at a time (can anyone?!), as soon as I fire up the game, I have to disconnect my internet and hide all my Bioware games, because I temporarily turn into a frothing lunatic who rages impotently about what a disgrace they are.

[Ryzaki]

The problem is not the math, it's because you have no logic behind your argument because you seem to not grasp the simple fact that a general is worth 2 or more Alistairs in the battlefield.

 

I'm done with you and your condescending attitude. Go back to watch anime.

 

Simple fact you say while ignoring what actually happened in the game because it hurts your argument. Okay.

 

babe you started the condescension. I give what I receive

[FKA_Servo]

The problem is not the math, it's because you have no logic behind your argument because you seem to not grasp the simple fact that a general is worth 2 or more Alistairs in the battlefield.

 

The point is that he'd be maybe more useful if he were directing dozens of Alistairs, because three grey wardens is sub-optimal when you're trying to kill an archdemon.

[line_genrou]

You're completely ignoring or missing Ryzaki's point.

 

An archdemon is a pretty big deal, and only grey wardens can kill arch demons. The smart thing would be to shoot for way, way more than three.

 

A nobody grunt (ideally, many) who's younger and stronger and who survives the joining is a whole lot more useful than Loghain, a great (and elderly) general when you need to kill an archdemon.

 

This is why the thread is 350 pages.

 

Doesn't matter if you think Alistair is better or Loghain is. That's a matter of opinion, though you can't deny that Loghain benefits the grey wardens and Riordan tells you that, that's why he wants Loghain to join them. Maybe he even thinks that taking in a national hero will help the wardens reputation in the future.

It's a choice you have and it's very much logical to me. Much more than "hey, let's get some dude from the redcliffe army!".

[Ryzaki]

The point is that he'd be maybe more useful if he were directing dozens of Alistairs, because three grey wardens is sub-optimal when you're trying to kill an archdemon.

 

Yep forever mad Riordan didn't think to pull my warden to the side and be like "there's way too few of us. We need a mass recruitment drive."

Even if it failed via deus ex machina at least it would've been something.

[FKA_Servo]

Doesn't matter if you think Alistair is better or Loghain is. That's a matter of opinion, though you can't deny that Loghain benefits the grey wardens and Riordan tells you that, that's why he wants Loghain to join them. Maybe he even thinks that taking in a national hero will help the wardens reputation in the future.

It's a choice you have and it's very much logical to me. Much more than "hey, let's get some dude from the redcliffe army!".

 

I agree that it's a choice that makes for good drama, but isn't so smart strategically and logistically.

[line_genrou]

I agree that it's a choice that makes for good drama, but isn't so smart strategically and logistically.

 

Debatable if you think Alistair is the better choice. (I usually stay with him)

Loghain sure has the experience of leading armies into battle and he's a warrior himself. He would become a great grey warden and a strong figure in the future.

[Ryzaki]

Doesn't matter if you think Alistair is better or Loghain is. That's a matter of opinion, though you can't deny that Loghain benefits the grey wardens and Riordan tells you that, that's why he wants Loghain to join them. Maybe he even thinks that taking in a national hero will help the wardens reputation in the future.

It's a choice you have and it's very much logical to me. Much more than "hey, let's get some dude from the redcliffe army!".

He literally does not. Loghain gives you nothing you don't get with Alistair. You get nothing with Loghain as a Grey Warden that you can't get with Alistair. Not an extra strategy, you don't save more lives, you don't anywhere faster. It's exactly the same. Loghain gives you no benefits to the Denerim fight whatsoever.

 

What are Riordan are you talking about? The sunshine and kittens one from Hello Kitty?

 

[TheOgre]

Oh please the Grey Wardens were always a morally dubious and incompetent organization. Even in DAO. You had to have your head in the ground not to realize that.

Morally dubious yes, once you are a recruit you must join or die. I mean the way how they killed that guy in the first game was pretty brutal. He just wanted to return to his family alive.

 

Their organization was left to be desired, in my opinion that was more local though for the setting of the game as they had demonstrated in Awakening a change. Then you have the two major keeps. 

 

It just felt rather forced in DAI how drastic they would take their zeal. Blood magic for example. Nothing really ever good comes from trying to create a demon army. Didn't it seem a bit convenient that a man would come to them with the magical answer that would solve their doomsday scenario? I mean come on.

[Akrabra]

It just felt rather forced in DAI how drastic they would take their zeal. Blood magic for example. Nothing really ever good comes from trying to create a demon army. Didn't it seem a bit convenient that a man would come to them with the magical answer that would solve their doomsday scenario? I mean come on.

Corypheus did use the calling to scare them into submission, and we don't really know how long it had been going on. It could have been more fleshed out in the game, but when people are desperate and in this case they think they are all going to die leaving the world vulnerable for yet another blight, i bet they were ready to believe and accept anything. Also the Grey Wardens don't turn away Blood Magic, whatever it takes to win. 

[Elhanan]

Corypheus did use the calling to scare them into submission, and we don't really know how long it had been going on. It could have been more fleshed out in the game, but when people are desperate and in this case they think they are all going to die leaving the world vulnerable for yet another blight, i bet they were ready to believe and accept anything. Also the Grey Wardens don't turn away Blood Magic, whatever it takes to win.

Not all the GW turn away Blood Magic, but a few of mine most certainly would. This would depend on the leadership of that smaller group.

[AresKeith]

It just felt rather forced in DAI how drastic they would take their zeal. Blood magic for example. Nothing really ever good comes from trying to create a demon army. Didn't it seem a bit convenient that a man would come to them with the magical answer that would solve their doomsday scenario? I mean come on.

 

The Wardens were never really against blood magic, DAO DLC and Last Flight

[TheOgre]

The Wardens were never really against blood magic, DAO DLC and Last Flight

Moreso the trusting the outsider that has a magical solution to their doomsday scenario. A plan so freaking crazy it may actually work! v.v

[AresKeith]

Moreso the trusting the outsider that has a magical solution to their doomsday scenario. A plan so freaking crazy it may actually work! v.v

 

True, but like someone said people would do anything if they're desperate enough

[FKA_Servo]

Moreso the trusting the outsider that has a magical solution to their doomsday scenario. A plan so freaking crazy it may actually work! v.v

 

This was definitely silly, considering he's a mustache twirling tevinter caricature, but if they're all muddled up by a mega calling, it's at least a bit forgivable.