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Feedback... be more like The Witcher 3


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#851
hoechlbear

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Back to friendly...

 

I love both franchises, and I'd like to give an example of how the cutscenes in TW3 give punch to even a small side quest.

A fairly simple, attend to some dead bodies quest appears in both games, in Crestwood in DAI and in TW3 as the side quest 'Funeral Pyres'.

 

I enjoyed helping the Chantry sister in Crestwood, but the animation in TW3 made excellent use of a simple quest,

and whether BioWare can get in closer to the characters or reintroduce more cutscenes, I think that really gives a pay off to a quest:

 

TW3 Funeral Pyres level 3 side quest conclusion (spoilers naturally)

 

 

I think the lack of cutscenes in DAI really hurt my experience with the game. Nothing was memorable, NPCs all looked and acted the same, they give you a quest and you can't even talk to them, can't even see their faces properly. Yes, the fact that almost all of the quests are fetch quests also didn't help, but if at least half of them had a few cutscenes and some actual dialogue options, it would make a hell of a difference, in my opinion.  I really like sidequests, I think they are such a nice addition to games, but DAI's sidequests feel like a complete chore because they are pretty straight forward (go here and do this) so there aren't any real twists and turns, nothing interesting happening, you can't make any choices and you can't actually talk to the NPCs. And it's sad how many sidequests in DAI don't have a single NPC interaction.


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#852
Dutch

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Jaws of Hakkon was developed after the release of DAI. It was not cut content.

I haven't played Witcher 3 yet, but there's one thing I've heard about that I sure as f**k hope never makes it into Dragon Age: item durability.

How is item durability a bad thing? It adds to the immersion where your weapons become damaged and don't perform as usual, kinda like in Fallout New Vegas.

Honestly the only problem is that it damages too quickly, but that can be easily fixed with a patch or mod.

#853
Dutch

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I'd really love to finally play this damn game so I can judge for myself about how it compares to Inquisition. Won't be getting a PS4 for a few months yet.


The side content is vastly better. Numerous choice and consequence from the 25hrs I've already played.
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#854
AresKeith

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most would actually

TW3 also has very simple quests (at least at first) but with cutscenes (which greatly help in making you feel for the minor characters) and choices one doesn't care/ doesn't notice 

 

With DA:I though Bioware strangely decided to go Skyrim's route even though their previous games always had cutscenes for side quests (most at least) 

 

It depends for me, I'm fine with some side quests not having a cutscene though some others would benefit from them

 

And if Bioware decided to go the Skyrim route there would be no cutscenes at all


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#855
VelvetV

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So the game is delightfully bug-free from day 1, people kept saying? Yeah right. I cannot disable active quests in HUD, no matter what I do.

 

It worked once, only once. Then I enabled them again and they would disappear no more, even in "off" position in options they still show. Even after full game restart. No luck.

 

Knowing precisely where to go to progress the main story line is seriously ruining my exprience. It's silly, too, because Geralt would not. He'd have to find that place.

 

A work-around was found, though: set the active quest to "collect them all" that spans all locations. It's the only quest that doesn't place markers on maps.



#856
AtreiyaN7

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Yes I deny the superiority of Bioware's writing

I mean they write great characters no doubt about it but the main stories are just generic and cliche most of the time (although if well done that can still be good see DA:O)

 

Its always the same old saving the world 

And I'm not sure what you are trying to do comparing Shakespeare with 50 shades of grey, are you saying Bioware is somehow Shakespeare in that comparison and CDPR 50 shades? lol

 

I played The Witcher (the original game) for about as long as I could stand it. My fundamental problems with that game (and nothing has changed since the last time I could be bothered to try it) is that A: the writing was juvenile (I'm a book designer and work on manuscripts every day of my life, so I have seen a lot of good and bad writing - mostly bad, unfortunately) B: the voice acting was wooden (Triss's and Geralt's initial dialogue made me cringe over how bad the delivery was in English) and C: I detested the combat.

 

As far as the combat goes in TW1, let me tell you that I beat Bloodborne and loved the combat, so I can actually play games that require combos and mashing buttons - it's not that I sucked at the combat in TW1 or couldn't get the hang of it when I tried; I just found it incredibly tedious, boring, and clunky (unlike Bloodborne in which combat was pretty exhilarating after I got the hang of it).

 

On the issue of the writing in general, I kind of have to laugh when people always say how superior TW1 is in terms of writing when basically all the dialogue I listened to was filled with clunkers that were just as bad as the dialogue I get from authors who couldn't write their way out of a paper bag (ah, the wonders of self-publishing - people who should never be allowed near a keyboard still get to publish their work).

 

Because I couldn't stand Geralt after playing as him during the intro in TW1, I did end up watching a number of videos - all of which had bad, not terribly subtle dialogue (particularly the supposedly "mature" banter; it generally made me laugh because the double entendres weren't even remotely clever, and I found that to be a real problem when it should have involved a fair amount of subtlety and cleverness).

 

While I wouldn't go so far as to make comparisons between E.L. James (terrible writing) and William Shakespeare (mostly genius writing), I think the character writing and humor that I've found in the DA games is superior to what I've seen in TW1. If I were to compare DA:O to TW1, which seems fair because each one is the first game in their respective series, I would also say that the overall writing in DA:O was superior to that of TW1, along with being intentionally funny (as opposed to the TW1 scenes that I watched, which were unintentionally funny).

 

I'm sure that CDPR has improved writing-wise since TW1, but my eminent lack of interest in Geralt as a person means that I am unlikely to ever play the rest of the games and cannot judge anything in the series past TW1. Therefore, I won't be comparing DA:I to TW3 or anything else. Sorry, but bad first impressions and all. Also, unlike many of the women in the Witcher series, I don't find Geralt physically attractive, interesting, or particularly compelling. My tastes run more towards guys like Idriss Elba or Michiel Huisman these days.

 

P.S. The one time BW did something that didn't involve the typical hero's journey, people complained about it. *points at DA2* Personally, I think there's nothing wrong with saving the world ad infinitum, so long as you execute it well each time. While I certainly applaud attempts at doing something different, you don't always have to reinvent the wheel.


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#857
KBomb

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So the game is delightfully bug-free from day 1, people kept saying? Yeah right. I cannot disable active quests in HUD, no matter what I do.

It worked once, only once. Then I enabled them again and they would disappear no more, even in "off" position in options they still show. Even after full game restart. No luck.

Knowing precisely where to go to progress the main story line is seriously ruining my exprience. It's silly, too, because Geralt would not. He'd have to find that place.


I don't think most people are lying about not having bugs. I have not encountered any bugs whatsoever. That very well could change, but as of now, it hasn't been an issue.

It's most likely the same as DAI in the respect that some people were experiencing game breaking bugs, while others did not. I have read loads of posts here about how some people have experienced little to no bugs in DAI and some continue to have issue. It's just how it is sometimes.
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#858
trevelyan_shep

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What's keeping me from playing TW3 (aside from money lol) is that I'd have to play as an old white dude that doesn't seem all that interesting as a character. I'll probably get it just to see if it is as amazing as people in this thread are saying it is. 



#859
Grieving Natashina

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I wanted to mention something about DA2 and the hero's journey.  I'm not trying to speak for anyone, I'm basing this off of months of observation and personal opinion.   :)

 

After the last 18 months on the forums, it seems the problem wasn't that it was a "hero's journey."  The problem was how much that Hawke just seemed to be a sucker and there wasn't a sense of agency at the end.  I think at the end, it didn't feel like Hawke was much of a hero.  More like the poor bastard left holding the bag more often than not.  S/he was too reactive and not proactive enough.  

 

What's more, some of the player companions were making things worse rather than better: Merrill bargaining with a demon; Anders full stop; Isabela taking the book.  My personal big problem was that there wasn't a third option for the end.  Instead of mages or templars, I wish their had been a third "get the hell out of the city and drag Bethany/Carver along," option and have the Meredith fight happen while you're trying to escape.  Everything big Hawke did pretty much turned into a failure at best and a disaster at worst.  

 

There was little victories, mostly character moments.  Fenyrel going to Tevinter rather than made Tranquil; Fenris can overcome his past; Aveline can fall in love; Gamlen and Charade; the one-on-one battle against the Arishok and others that I can't think of at the moment.  

 

In the end though, it wasn't that it was a "hero's personal journey," it's that it mostly felt like Hawke was never truly allowed to be a hero.  I say this as someone that loves DA2 a lot despite some of it's flaws.  From everything I've been reading, it seems like TW3 did a better job of that than DA2 by miles.  I know that DA2 was rushed (less than 1 year from DA:A to DA2,) but it sounds like they could learn a lot here.  I wouldn't want them to start trying to copy Geralt, but it sounds like he's had a great story arc.


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#860
VelvetV

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I don't find Geralt physically attractive, interesting, or particularly compelling

 

I agree and I find it difficult to play as him for this reason. If at least he was actually attractive, in personality or physique!

 

I don't think most people are lying about not having bugs. I have not encountered any bugs whatsoever. That very well could change, but as of now, it hasn't been an issue.

 

I didn't have bugs, either, just this one. And one random crash on inventory screen.



#861
AtreiyaN7

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@natashina: Yeah, I agree that one of the issues is that many people feel that Hawke is essentially Fate's punching bag. However, the story was supposed to be a bit more personal and intimate (and on a smaller scale) than the usual hero's journey, so I thought it deviated a fair bit from the typical BW approach to a game.

 

@velvetv: Geralt seems to be pretty well muscled (I cannot tell a lie: I usually find hard abs attractive), but it's a bit more important for me that a guy have a personality that I actually like. If Geralt somehow magically got a personality transplant, suddenly displayed something akin to Han Solo's snarky charm, AND got himself a Wookiee companion with a crossbow, I might reconsider my stance. Looking like Harrison Ford would also help a great deal, but I'm pretty sure that there's not a hope in Hades of any of that actually happening.



#862
Steelcan

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Geralt is a tad taxing in comparison to more, lets say colorful characters like Hawke, but I can appreciate his much drier delivery for sarcasm and such as well.


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#863
Grieving Natashina

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@natashina: Yeah, I agree that one of the issues is that many people feel that Hawke is essentially Fate's punching bag. However, the story was supposed to be a bit more personal and intimate (and on a smaller scale) than the usual hero's journey, so I thought it deviated a fair bit from the typical BW approach to a game.

 

Fair enough.  To be honest, I'd rather have a smaller hero's journey next time.  In the last few BioWare games I've played save for DA2, I've stopped one of the devils from the Nine Hells taking over a major city (NWN HotU;) I've defected from the Empire (ToR); I've stopped an intergalactic threat (ME series,); I've stopped a possibly world-ruining Blight (DA:O); and now, I've prevented the end of the world (DA:I). It would be different for BioWare, but for me, it would be a welcome change.  I would be happy at this point if they tried a hero's journey.  

 

The biggest bit I've read of praise for the Witcher series overall is that, while Geralt is a hero, they don't immediately jump into the "saving the world" plot.  I've heard that they kept the original source material mostly intact and used well in-game (I know that's subjective, but I have heard this quite a bit.)  That's something that I think that the DA team is overall awful at.  I don't like needing to read the EU to in order to understand characters, and yet with some like Cole and Loghain, that's almost required to fully understand the characters and/or their motivations.  They need to handle incorporating their EU into their games with more grace.  



#864
chrstnmonks

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I think one of the ways Bioware could benefit from TW3 is enemy prepration. Let me explain. In the witcher particular things can only harm  particular monsters. Before you go into battle you have to know that monsters vulernabilities and immunities, habits and such. Also, in TW2 the more you fought a monster the more you learned about them. You could also research about the monster and stuff. I think Bioware could really use this.



#865
HiroVoid

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I played The Witcher (the original game) for about as long as I could stand it. My fundamental problems with that game (and nothing has changed since the last time I could be bothered to try it) is that A: the writing was juvenile (I'm a book designer and work on manuscripts every day of my life, so I have seen a lot of good and bad writing - mostly bad, unfortunately) B: the voice acting was wooden (Triss's and Geralt's initial dialogue made me cringe over how bad the delivery was in English) and C: I detested the combat.

 

As far as the combat goes in TW1, let me tell you that I beat Bloodborne and loved the combat, so I can actually play games that require combos and mashing buttons - it's not that I sucked at the combat in TW1 or couldn't get the hang of it when I tried; I just found it incredibly tedious, boring, and clunky (unlike Bloodborne in which combat was pretty exhilarating after I got the hang of it).

 

On the issue of the writing in general, I kind of have to laugh when people always say how superior TW1 is in terms of writing when basically all the dialogue I listened to was filled with clunkers that were just as bad as the dialogue I get from authors who couldn't write their way out of a paper bag (ah, the wonders of self-publishing - people who should never be allowed near a keyboard still get to publish their work).

 

Because I couldn't stand Geralt after playing as him during the intro in TW1, I did end up watching a number of videos - all of which had bad, not terribly subtle dialogue (particularly the supposedly "mature" banter; it generally made me laugh because the double entendres weren't even remotely clever, and I found that to be a real problem when it should have involved a fair amount of subtlety and cleverness).

 

While I wouldn't go so far as to make comparisons between E.L. James (terrible writing) and William Shakespeare (mostly genius writing), I think the character writing and humor that I've found in the DA games is superior to what I've seen in TW1. If I were to compare DA:O to TW1, which seems fair because each one is the first game in their respective series, I would also say that the overall writing in DA:O was superior to that of TW1, along with being intentionally funny (as opposed to the TW1 scenes that I watched, which were unintentionally funny).

 

I'm sure that CDPR has improved writing-wise since TW1, but my eminent lack of interest in Geralt as a person means that I am unlikely to ever play the rest of the games and cannot judge anything in the series past TW1. Therefore, I won't be comparing DA:I to TW3 or anything else. Sorry, but bad first impressions and all. Also, unlike many of the women in the Witcher series, I don't find Geralt physically attractive, interesting, or particularly compelling. My tastes run more towards guys like Idriss Elba or Michiel Huisman these days.

 

P.S. The one time BW did something that didn't involve the typical hero's journey, people complained about it. *points at DA2* Personally, I think there's nothing wrong with saving the world ad infinitum, so long as you execute it well each time. While I certainly applaud attempts at doing something different, you don't always have to reinvent the wheel.

Thanks for detailing out what you didn't like about Witcher 1.  Of course, I think comparing Witcher 1 combat to Bloodborne combat's a bit out there due to Witcher 1 having more in common with KOTOR since Witcher 1 wasn't really an action-RPG.  Witcher 1's also definitely the clunkiest being the company's first game, but I think it shines in a lot of areas that get more refined later on in the series.  I also remember hearing the original Witcher 1 had a pretty bad translation and got re-translated and voice-acted in the enhanced edtion. 

 

Just out of curiosity, what did you think about the main antagonist in the Witcher 1?  To be honest, I believe the antagonist from both Witcher 1 and 2 to be better than pretty much all of Bioware's games (aside from their older games which I haven't played).  Of course, I've always felt the antagonists to always be sort of a weak spot for Bioware when comparing with Obsidian games as well.


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#866
Grieving Natashina

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I think one of the ways Bioware could benefit from TW3 is enemy prepration. Let me explain. In the witcher particular things can only harm  particular monsters. Before you go into battle you have to know that monsters vulernabilities and immunities, habits and such. Also, in TW2 the more you fought a monster the more you learned about them. You could also research about the monster and stuff. I think Bioware could really use this.

I've missed having fights were I have to really prepare for immunities outside of dragons.  If the DA team does keep the resistance potions, I'd like them to feel a lot more useful than for the dragons.  I love the TW2 approach from your quick description.  It would be more welcome than a drop.  It also makes a helluva lot more sense too than just collecting random items to turn in for a researcher.  

 

If you don't mind me asking, how does TW3 go about teaching that stuff to player outside of combat?  Or is it just trial and error and a matter of paying attention to the average monsters in an area?



#867
chrstnmonks

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I've missed having fights were I have to really prepare for immunities outside of dragons.  If the DA team does keep the resistance potions, I'd like them to feel a lot more useful than for the dragons.  I love the TW2 approach from your quick description.  It would be more welcome than a drop.  It also makes a helluva lot more sense too than just collecting random items to turn in for a researcher.  

 

If you don't mind me asking, how does TW3 go about teaching that stuff to player outside of combat?  Or is it just trial and error and a matter of paying attention to the average monsters area an area?

I am not to far into TW3 yet but so far you can find books on various monsters and herbs. I hope they kept the mechanic from TW2 where the more you fight the more you learn.When I have more info I will post and let everyone know



#868
Grieving Natashina

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I am not to far into TW3 yet but so far you can find books on various monsters and herbs. I hope they kept the mechanic from TW2 where the more you fight the more you learn.When I have more info I will post and let everyone know

Thanks for the heads up.  I hope it's a mix of the two for TW3, because that sounds like it would make combat a lot more fun.  Look forward to your updates.   :D



#869
Steelcan

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Thanks for the heads up.  I hope it's a mix of the two for TW3, because that sounds like it would make combat a lot more fun.  Look forward to your updates.   :D

you also have a bestiary that keeps track of enemy types encountered and what they are weak to and such


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#870
Grieving Natashina

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you also have a bestiary that keeps track of enemy types encountered and what they are weak to and such

Oh gods, that would be awesome.  The codex this time just feels like a giant mess, particularly with the entries on the enemy types.  That's definitely needs to be in future DA games.  To be honest, the codex setup for DA:I sucks royally and it's been a hatred of mine since the game came out.  I'll stick that right next to "Characters don't have their own separate save folders like every other BW game I've played and it's a giant mess in my save folder," and "MMO-like RNG loot for in a sodding SP game for schematics and Requisition drops" as gameplay crap that just irks me to no end. <_<


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#871
AresKeith

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Oh gods, that would be awesome.  The codex this time just feels like a giant mess, particularly with the entries on the enemy types.  That's definitely needs to be in future DA games.  To be honest, the codex setup for DA:I sucks royally and it's been a hatred of mine since the game came out.  I'll stick that right next to "Characters don't have their own separate save folders like every other BW game I've played and it's a giant mess in my save folder," and "MMO-like RNG loot for in a sodding SP game for schematics and Requisition drops" as gameplay crap that just irks me to no end. <_<

 

Nothing beats ME3's quest system :P



#872
Grieving Natashina

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Nothing beats ME3's quest system :P

Eavesdropping for quests or randomly scanning planets for great justice!  Well, it was creative I'll give them that.  An extremely silly and convoluted method, but creative.  I hope they don't do that in any future DA or ME again.


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#873
AresKeith

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Eavesdropping for quests or randomly scanning planets for great justice!  Well, it was creative I'll give them that.  An extremely silly and convoluted method, but creative.  I hope they don't do that in any future DA or ME again.

 

Don't forget how the questlog doesn't update properly 



#874
Grieving Natashina

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Don't forget how the questlog doesn't update properly 

I haven't run into that, thankfully.  However, I did run into the bug where if you don't stand perfectly still and let the NPC finish talking, you'll be unable to complete the quest.  That was the Blue Suns quest, on the paragon path.  I also ran into the bug where, if you quick save and exit the game at the end of the Eclipse quest before you talk to Bailey (paragon path again,) you won't trigger the conversation at the elevator and you can't finish the quest.

 

Yeah...let's not ever go back to that system.  It made my paragon Shep feel like a creepier.   :P



#875
Steelcan

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Other things of note that TW3 has thus far done better than DA:I

 

Side quests x1000, no "bring 10 ram meat to the hunter" or anything.  Even small scale quests such as investigating an arson attack on a blacksmith, or a simple goal to clear a well of a spirit all have attention paid to them and manage to escape the fetch quests that plague DA:I, on top of being in a quasi open world setting like DA:I is

 

I won't touch the graphics issue as I am ill equipped to discuss it in depth, but I will say that the facial features and expressions look much nicer in TW3, and Ynnefer is gorgeous... however that is subjective certainly

 

The last thing I've also noticed is the presentation of the wider world.  IMO, DA:I really fails at "show, don't tell" and TW3 is definitely doing well in that regard.  Examples include some small moments detailing how a conquered nation is dealing with its new status such as the removal of old CoA and the destruction of others that adorn the former royal palace in Vizima.


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