15885 réponses à ce sujet

[AmberDragon]

I am on my third playthrough of W3 and sorry to say I am deliberately making some bad choices to see the outcome, [spolier]so yep letting Keira go to Radovid, helped Hjalmar become King of Skelliga and planning to let Dykstra kill his co-conspirators... just want to see how it affects the end.[/spoiler] it is great to have a game where decisions have visible consequences.

 

Then I may give new game + a go too.

 

Erm totally off topic so please feel free to send me a private message with the answer because I don't want to derail the thread, but, can anyone recommend any good rpgs for the xbox 360 preferably ones that are only on xbox because if they are on playstation as well then I probably have them already. 

[Monica83]

Oh I really don't about that. Killing connor by your hand or let his mother do it is inferred? That's just one example of many.

Again you're talking about codexes and war tables that you do not get to see and act upon. You just send your minions and done. IF you're lucky there might be a chain mission of again you don't see. I think that is the major gripe of the disgruntled fans. Specially when there are tons of really cool war table missions that would have been epic to do but sadly never get to experience. One of the quests in the that would have been very cool to do was the wardens.


And Zev's

 

Is useless write things on the codex when the in game world don't reflect or don't show what the codex say.... I can make an rpg and write codex about it but if in the actual game i show the setting in a total different manner is useless.. There is a problem of discontinuity since the time of dragon age 2...

In codex elves for example was considered as generally very attractive to humans.. then in dragon age 2 they seems rats  with mantids eyes... And now in inquisition they are a little better but they appear as teenagers..

 

Talking about the qunari in the first game they were basically human like giants with a really restrictive code of life... In dragon age 2 they became horned like creature and then in inquisition this restrictive society of giant is going to accept females acting like males... Did you remember what Sten says if the warden were a female?.... yeah right...

 

There is a huge problem of coninuity in this setting... A huge problem of consistency... Is useless put things on the codex when the game potray all in a total different manner.

[KBomb]

I think on paper, DA:I can get pretty darn dark, as you well exemplified with your post. My personal problem however, is the presentation, the way these possibly disturbing or poignant scenes are delivered to the audience. I never felt a connection for any NPCs or their stories. Let's take the red lyrium women's case. I strongly believe that had Bioware included cut-scenes showing close ups with the character, showing her pain in her eyes and the face of the Inquisitor touched by the sight, I think such a set up would've made me care so much more and truly make me realize the terror of red lyrium. Reading a few codex entries is interesting but I never get the emotional depth a cut-scene might give me by making a connexion between the NPC and the Inqui/the player.
Imagine if they had played the Dawn Will Come scene with a static camera angle that you could pan. that would have taken away most of the emotional power that scene had, to me anyway.

This is exactly how I feel. It's all in how it's presented and I do feel the lack of cutscenes made you feel disconnected in DAI. IMO, it made them feel unimportant.

TommyServo...

Spoiler

That Whoreson Junior scene was great. One of my favorite scenes.

/pushes you out of the thread.

[Monica83]

I am don't think i am missing something... I just took all dragon age games and compared them.. and i have to say after origins a lot in the dragon age setting changed.. at the point to me it losts his identity

[FKA_Servo]

I am don't think i am missing something... I just took all dragon age games and compared them.. and i have to say after origins a lot in the dragon age setting changed.. at the point to me it losts his identity

 

And your chosen examples there are irrelevant to the point you're trying to make and mistaken, respectively.

[MoonDrummer]

This is exactly how I feel. It's all in how it's presented and I do feel the lack of cutscenes made you feel disconnected in DAI. IMO, it made them feel unimportant.

TommyServo...

Spoiler

That Whoreson Junior scene was great. One of my favorite scenes.

/pushes you out of the thread.

I agree, that scene really made we want to kill Whoreson. 

 

Based king Radovid allowing Geralt to go after him, proving once again that he cares more for Geralt than Triss or Yen ever could. 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Is useless write things on the codex when the in game world don't reflect or don't show what the codex say.... I can make an rpg and write codex about it but if in the actual game i show the setting in a total different manner is useless.. There is a problem of discontinuity since the time of dragon age 2...

In codex elves for example was considered as generally very attractive to humans.. then in dragon age 2 they seems rats  with mantids eyes... And now in inquisition they are a little better but they appear as teenagers..

 

Talking about the qunari in the first game they were basically human like giants with a really restrictive code of life... In dragon age 2 they became horned like creature and then in inquisition this restrictive society of giant is going to accept females acting like males... Did you remember what Sten says if the warden were a female?.... yeah right...

 

There is a huge problem of coninuity in this setting... A huge problem of consistency... Is useless put things on the codex when the game potray all in a total different manner.

 

You nailed it. Dragon Age as a franchise has NO consistency. There is a severe disconnect between the atmosphere and the codex, the gameplay and the lore.

[Elhanan]

Saw this on the new NG+ material; some here might be interested:

http://segmentnext.c...er-to-new-game/

[FKA_Servo]

I agree, that scene really made we want to kill Whoreson. 

 

Based king Radovid allowing Geralt to go after him, proving once again that he cares more for Geralt than Triss or Yen ever could. 

 

I'm internet dumber than I thought, because I see people throwing "Based (noun)" around, and I have no idea what it means.

 

On topic, I was basking in the afterglow at the lighthouse last night when Sigi Reuven approached me with an offer that I promise you, I will not refuse.

[Monica83]

They are not irrilevant at all... Codex are maded to show the setting... So what is in the codex should be seen also in the game... now Dragon age have 2 main problems in it..

 

1) They changed so much  from origin to inquisition that some things are in directly conflict on what was written in the pervious title...I used elves and qunari as an example but there are other huge consistency problems...When you write the lore of a race and with the sequel you change totally how a race looks this is a huge continuity problem pretty much similiar to The elder scrolls when i morrowind lore claimed that cyrodill was a jungle and then released oblivion as a general europen looking place add an explanation only after... This things should be avoided to keep the lory consistent..

 

2) Again they can write all they want in the codex but if you describe a dark setting in the codex and you make the world in game appear like a shiny disneyworld avoiding all the controversial matter for the sake of politically correct why bother even to write a codex? (the iron bull and sten matter on female fighters for example..)

[Xetykins]

And your chosen examples there are irrelevant to the point you're trying to make and mistaken, respectively.

I get what he is saying totally and understand the point. But I think its maybe because English is also not my first language.

Anyway, he's just stating his opinion that's not always true for others, but it is to him or her

[MoonDrummer]

On topic, I was basking in the afterglow at the lighthouse last night when Sigi Reuven approached me with an offer that I promise you, I will not refuse.

 

[FKA_Servo]

They are not irrilevant at all... Codex are maded to show the setting... So what is in the codex should be seen also in the game... now Dragon age have 2 main problems in it..

 

1) They changed so much  from origin to inquisition that some things are in directly conflict on what was written in the pervious title...I used elves and qunari as an example but there are other huge consistency problems...When you write the lore of a race and with the sequel you change totally how a race looks this is a huge continuity problem pretty much similiar to The elder scrolls when i morrowind lore claimed that cyrodill was a jungle and then released oblivion as a general europen looking place add an explanation only after... This things should be avoided to keep the lory consistent..

 

2) Again they can write all they want in the codex but if you describe a dark setting in the codex and you make the world in game appear like a shiny disneyworld avoiding all the controversial matter for the sake of politically correct why bother even to write a codex? (the iron bull and sten matter on female fighters for example..)

 

The fact that they changed the way elves look in a way that most players (myself included) don't like is irrelevant to the way they're described in the codex and in universe. It's just an unfortunate stylistic change, but no different from the way the appearance of things have changed, for example, from TW1-TW3.

 

With regard to the second point - this is a mischaracterization that falls apart the second you think it through. The qunari are an entire civilization, and despite whatever happens to be written in the Tome of Koslun, it will inevitably take all kinds. Do you really think you'll learn everything there is to know about them from one particularly dogmatic individual and the 30 or fewer lines of dialogue he has on the subject?

 

Say I'm a space alien conducting a survey on earth religions. I want to learn about the catholic church. I talk to a disinterested Christmas/Easter college student and an Opus Dei nutjob. I'm going to get an extremely divergent picture of the faith from those two people, right? Sten, and the Arishok, and Tallis, and Bull - all of these characters provide different perspectives on that religion. In my mind, that aids in verisimilitude. It makes the whole thing more consistent, more believable.

 

And if you're truly hung up on Krem, well... you're tying yourself into knots based on your own (unflattering, if I may say) real life opinions on the subject. You may not like it personally, but inconsistent it ain't.

 

I get what he is saying totally and understand the point. But I think its maybe because English is also not my first language.

Anyway, he's just stating his opinion that's not always true for others, but it is to him or her

 

Meh, my leading comment to her was a cheap shot, so I took it down.

 

That said, it's not presented as an opinion, and I hold that it's verifiably incorrect.

[Monica83]

We are not talking here of a simple improvment of models... When you change totally how a race looks then you create a discrepancy on the setting...Is like if i design a rpg race and with the next installment i shape the race in a total different manner nullify what the lore say about that race... and that is indeed a problem if you want to make a consistent setting.. About the qunari... Sten a character i love while talking not so much was pretty clear on the Qun culture is strictly severe...is not only a civilization is also a way to think a philosphy...They decided to change this thing for the sake of politcally correct..

 

In the end... Change how a whole race behave or looks for the sake of "let's bring more fashinable style.." is never good in a setting... It kills continuity and make the world less believable and consistent...

 

My real life opinion are totally irrilevant since i have no problem with straight or gay people.. i am bi myself...The matter is does the setting is consistent?...

 

as habit writed and i share this opinion: "Dragon Age as a franchise has NO consistency. There is a severe disconnect between the atmosphere and the codex, the gameplay and the lore."

 

Not even mentioning the non magic class that does silly things like the warrior crushing the terrain with a sword causing and eruption on fire.. Or the assassin skill that makes fly the dagger stabbing dozen of times an ennemy...Not even bothering to give an explanation on the codex for this...

 

I prefear a hundred times a coherent lore and setting than play an rpg where lore and setting are in the second spot for.. Visual style..

[FKA_Servo]

We are not talking here of a simple improvment of models... When you change totally how a race looks then you create a discrepancy on the setting...Is like if i design a rpg race and with the next installment i shape the race in a total different manner nullify what the lore say about that race... and that is indeed a problem if you want to make a consistent setting.. About the qunari... Sten a character i love while talking not so much was pretty clear on the Qun culture is strictly severe...is not only a civilization is also a way to think a philosphy...They decided to change this thing for the sake of politcally correct..

 

Severe... from his perspective, the only qunari we've ever met. Change the way a race looks... but you've only ever met one of them. A philosophy that other adherents may observe to varying extent, as far as we know because again, we've only met one.

 

At this point, I honestly don't remember if qunari horns were mentioned in the codex in Origins (I thought they were, and they made a big deal about how he was hornless, specifically - I know they were always intended, but were necessarily cut during development of DAO), but even if they weren't, it's just an expansion of the lore. Maybe it was necessitated by deliberate design approach, but even if you find that distasteful, there's nothing contradictory or inconsistent with it. And it's silly to hold Origins as having the last word on the subject when it couldn't possibly have. It's ultimately subjective.

 

And if you have a problem with flashy combat animations... well, those started with DAO, as well.

[Monica83]

The qunari horns were mentioned only in dragon age 2...Explanding the lores should be "Expanding" not totally change things that destroy the pervious one... I can write in a book that elves appear to be thin and beautiful but if in the sequel of this book i show elfs like goat like face with giraffe neck that will contrast with what i writed in the pervious book.. That is the problem...

 

What they did is change a lot the lores in favour of visual style and coolnes and in result the setting lost consistency.. is less believable.. and show something total different from what is written on the codex

 

About flashy anims..

 

Is not that.. Is the fact that some non magical classes have access at magical abilty like the example of the warrior and the assassin i mentioned... Those moves are completely out of context...

 

Similiar to skyrim where you can be Archmage of Winterhold! as a level 10 warrior character....

Another overstimated game...

[FKA_Servo]

The qunari horns were mentioned only in dragon age 2...Explanding the lores should be "Expanding" not totally change things that destroy the pervious one... I can write in a book that elves appear to be thin and beautiful but if in the sequel of this book i show elfs like goat like face with giraffe neck that will contrast with what i writed in the pervious book.. That is the problem...

 

What they did is change a lot the lores in favour of visual style and coolnes and in result the setting lost consistency.. is less believable.. and show something total different from what is written on the codex

 

But that's your problem though, and not the game's problem. The description and perception of elves remains unchanged in the games. This is on the level of complaining about how none of the gnomes in TW3 had beards when all of them did in TW1.

 

The horns don't contradict the previous lore, because we only met one qunari and we only got a little bit of information about his people. We got a truckload more in DA2, and we learned why maybe he's special. But good heavens, it doesn't completely change anything. It very clearly expanding upon it.

[Monica83]

is total different... this... We are not talking about beards...Or subtile changes like that... we are talking about how a whole race looks and how is presented on the code... Elves with beard or shaved.. Are still elves and appear as elves at the same manner they was in W1 or W2..

 

But when you write in the codex that elves are looking beautiful in human eyes you can't show them like rats with mantids eyes... Inquisition improved a bit on this tough

 

About the horn matter you have right is not a big deal.. Because Ogre had horns even in origins... But then Sten is not the only qunari you meet in game... You meet other qunari mercenary around all hornless

[FKA_Servo]

is total different... this... We are not talking about beards...Or subtile changes like that... we are talking about how a whole race looks and how is presented on the code... Elves with beard or shaved.. Are still elves and appear as elves at the same manner they was in W1 or W2..

 

But when you write in the codex that elves are looking beautiful in human eyes you can't show them like rats with mantids eyes... Inquisition improved a bit on this tough

 

About the horn matter you have right is not a big deal.. Because Ogre had horns even in origins... But then Sten is not the only qunari you meet in game... You meet other qunari mercenary around all hornless

 

You're misunderstanding me then. It doesn't matter how us, the humans playing the game, perceive the elves. The perception of elves is consistent and unchanged in the game. Even if some of them are bug eyed abominations to us the players, that's just an unfortunate design choice. It doesn't reflect the reality of how they're viewed in-game. If you view it as lore breaking or lore inconsistent... that's on you, because it isn't. My gnome example is apt, because they look completely different in TW1 than they do in TW3. That's just what happens sometimes from game to game.

 

And yes, you're right. We do fight other qunari who, in the interest of cost cutting and efficiency, I imagine, re-use Sten's character model. So, that's not a great example.

[Monica83]

There is difference between

 

This:

And this:

This is a complete change of the morphology of the race... Is not a little thing like bearded or not bearded elves... They took the race and changed all their physical features and this is always bad from a lore point of view expecially because they didin't offered an explanation for this drastinc change codex talking....

 

When you design a race and then after you write a Book.. make a movie or create a rpg should be stay as he was first designed for a matter of coherency...What if they change the elf again? if in DA4 they will have a tail and be blue skinned you will continue to say this setting is coherent? That the game stays loyal to his lore and setting?

[line_genrou]

I will say this man, Emprise Du Lion gripped me. Seeing a few people lying on the ground perishing slowly to the red lyrium is what I liked.

 

The dying templar at the top of the castle.

 

But I noticed way more grim stuff in DAO and to some degree in DA2. Yet you are completely right about Codex's and Storyboard having a lot of nasty things in it!

 

Personal opinion time inc: The zoom in conversations are still a major turn off. I like to see the people I'm talking too up close. I am spoiled by the Witcher's conversation method. Yet they did this in DAO to some degree. I find it's a major step back in the way of connecting to someone you are taking on a mission from. I'd like to kneel down to listen to the dying woman's request to return her personal things to her lover as she slowly perishes to red lyrium tainting. Zoom in camera takes away from that a bit!

 

Yes, it is an issue. It's like as if you are having a deep conversation with someone and can't see their face, their eyes, their overall expression. You're just hearing them talk. It takes you out of the situation at hand.

[line_genrou]

In next DA game, I would not be surprised to see transgender Tevinter mages equipped with magical grenade launcher marching with rainbow-tattooed Qunaris to fight for rights of same sex marriage.

 

You know it's going to happen

[In Exile]

 

In codex elves for example was considered as generally very attractive to humans.. then in dragon age 2 they seems rats  with mantids eyes... And now in inquisition they are a little better but they appear as teenagers..

 

I don't know how to break this to you, but people are into that look. Not to mention that attractiveness is subjective, and attractive to humans =! attractive to every human.

 

 

 

There is difference between

 

This:

And this:

This is a complete change of the morphology of the race... Is not a little thing like bearded or not bearded elves... They took the race and changed all their physical features and this is always bad from a lore point of view expecially because they didin't offered an explanation for this drastinc change codex talking....

 

When you design a race and then after you write a Book.. make a movie or create a rpg should be stay as he was first designed for a matter of coherency...What if they change the elf again? if in DA4 they will have a tail and be blue skinned you will continue to say this setting is coherent? That the game stays loyal to his lore and setting?

 

 

The guy looks slightly more buff. I don't see the difference. The problem in DA2 was that the face didn't look at all like that guy for the typical elf.

[FKA_Servo]

I... recognize that there's a difference in those pieces of concept art. My eyes do work. I reject that it's lore breaking, or lore inconsistent, because it flatly is not. Elves in DAO were slight, attractive (debatable) humanoids with pointy ears. In DA2, they are slight, attractive (debatable) humanoids with pointy ears. In DAI, they are slight, attractive (debatable) humanoids with pointy ears. Everyone in the game still recognizes them as such. That you do not doesn't matter. It just means you have an opinion on the art design.

 

I'm done, though. This is enough of a derailment.

[line_genrou]

TW3 ruined all other elves for me. Their design is freaking badass, especially the Aen Elle.