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[Wolven_Soul]

And this is demonstrably untrue, though I'll grant that you do need to dig for it more this time around. The codex entries and war table outcomes are frequently anything but tame. There is some very troubling stuff in there.

Even in the past games, the darkest stuff was strictly inferred as opposed to flat out shown most of the time.

 

 

Yeah, there are some, but I want to see and actively take part in the troubling stuff, not just read about it on the war board.  It's an extremely weak example.

 

I mean, rather than meeting the Baron and taking part in his search for Anna and Tamara, do we really want to read about him from some report and then send Cullen or Leliana out to look for them, or send Josephine's ambassadors for peace talks to the Baron?  I don't think so.

[TheOgre]

I generally dislike elves, sadly even witcher elves. Creepy skeleton people..

 

shudders

 

But they aren't as cringe worthy as Dragon Age elves.

[Wolven_Soul]

Picking up a blood soaked teddy bear off a dead child whose dead mother and dead father were trying to protect in the Exalted Plains is not dark enough? What about picking the wedding ring up of a couple of scorched bodies in the Emprise du Lion is not dark enough? What about the soldier who is dying and gives the Inquisitor a ring to return to Commander Jehan? Or the last words of the woman dying from red lyrium poisoning where she asks the Inquisitor to place a letter for her beloved? What about the confession letter in the quest Caged Confession where Louis killed the brother of his love Linette?

 

The Envy demon slitting Cullen's throat even if it is the fade not dark enough? Or are gamers looking for Bioware to show an actually gang rape on screen? What is "dark" suppose to mean?

How many horrors of war need to be shown? Bodies being thrown into pits to raise them as the undead is not dark enough? The only way to stop it is to burn the bodies.

How far should a game made for entertainment go?

 

Some gamers are complaining about the SJW agenda but want to see the horrors of war depicted somewhat realistically. Both exist realistically. So I believe if one can be shown so can the other. 

 

 

I don't want it to get to graphic with the example you describe, but picking up a bloody teddy bear or a wedding ring?  Weak, it's absolutely weak.  Besides, there are many other ways to show dark, gritty choices as both DA:O and TW3 has shown us.  

 

When I want to use my imagination, I go and read a book, when I want a visual representation of something, I watch a movie or play a video game.

 

I'm an adult.  As such, I want grown up games that don't pull punches and leave me to have to imagine all of the bad things.  I want my games to be able to sock me in the gut.  DA:I fails to do that as most of the time it feels like a game made for children.  There are some language and nudity, but other than those bits, the rest of the game feels like it is made for kids.  

 

Don't get me wrong, I still like more cutesy games at times, I love Plants vs. Zombies:  Garden Warfar.  But keep my Dragon Age games gritty and real.

[Cz-99]

I generally dislike elves, sadly even witcher elves. Creepy skeleton people..

 

shudders

 

But they aren't as cringe worthy as Dragon Age elves.

 

Creepy you say?

 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I do not think people would have had problems with alien or exotic looking Elves in DA had Bioware not mentioned that Humans find Elves attractive in the lore codex.

 

That is the issue really.

 

See in Tamriel, Humans there don't really have a preference for Elves which means if Bethesda make them look weird, its okay.

[TheOgre]

When I want to use my imagination, I go and read a book, when I want a visual representation of something, I watch a movie or play a video game.

+1

 

Creepy you say?

 

He's not so bad.

[Wolven_Soul]

This is exactly how I feel. It's all in how it's presented and I do feel the lack of cutscenes made you feel disconnected in DAI. IMO, it made them feel unimportant.

TommyServo...

Spoiler

That Whoreson Junior scene was great. One of my favorite scenes.

/pushes you out of the thread.

 

Spoiler

I liked that scene for one reason mainly.  And that is the vicious beat down that Geralt gives Whoreson Jr. for harming Ciri.  You can totally see the protective dad in him during that scene.  It is one of the first moments where you really get an idea of just how much he loves her.  

 

[Wolven_Soul]

TW3 ruined all other elves for me. Their design is freaking badass, especially the Aen Elle.

 

I do like the TW3 elves, but my favorite elves will always be drow from the Forgotten Realms universe.  My all time favorite character is one.  

[Wolven_Soul]

We all complained - loudly - about the mako. How dare they remove the mako!

And how could they possibly consider bringing it back?!

 

I for one never complained about the mako being gone.  God I hated that unwieldy piece of garbage.  

[ashwind]

Being dark to me is not about certain details; like picking up some silly bloodied doll. Or some dying soilder's last words.

It is about the atmosphere and a sense of dread and despair that the game makes players feel. DAO does this far better than DAI.

Think of horror movies of old and now. Great use of ambient, shadows, etc vs cheap over used sfx, gore and jump scare.

Think of the original Jurassic park vs the cheap sfx one. Think of the old Biohazard vs the new zombie shoot em up biohazard of late. Think of Dead Space 1 vs the rest.

Details counts for nothing when the atmosphere is lost. It becomes a souless shell.

[In Exile]

Being dark to me is not about certain details; like picking up some silly bloodied doll. Or some dying soilder's last words.

It is about the atmosphere and a sense of dread and despair that the game makes players feel. DAO does this far better than DAI.

Think of horror movies of old and now. Great use of ambient, shadows, etc vs cheap over used sfx, gore and jump scare.

Think of the original Jurassic park vs the cheap sfx one. Think of the old Biohazard vs the new zombie shoot em up biohazard of late. Think of Dead Space 1 vs the rest.

Details counts for nothing when the atmosphere is lost. It becomes a souless shell.

 

See, this is where I totally disagree. I am an unstopabble engine of death and destruction in DAO. To initiate combat against me - whether it's 50 darkspawn, 50 humans, or 50 werewolves - is to almost immediately be obliterated without even scuffing the fringes on my PC's robes. To me, the very basic concept of an RPG, and the power of an RPG protagonist, is totally against any element of horror.

 

Horror is about - in part - powerlessness. Look at e.g. Alien. The characters are powerless - they're fleeing, hiding, hunted, etc. Give the PC power, and there can't be the kind of atmosphere you want IMO.

[ashwind]

See, this is where I totally disagree. I am an unstopabble engine of death and destruction in DAO. To initiate combat against me - whether it's 50 darkspawn, 50 humans, or 50 werewolves - is to almost immediately be obliterated without even scuffing the fringes on my PC's robes. To me, the very basic concept of an RPG, and the power of an RPG protagonist, is totally against any element of horror.

 

Horror is about - in part - powerlessness. Look at e.g. Alien. The characters are powerless - they're fleeing, hiding, hunted, etc. Give the PC power, and there can't be the kind of atmosphere you want IMO.

 

And? I am an unstoppable machine of death and destruction in DAI as well.

[In Exile]

And? I am an unstoppable machine of death and destruction in DAI as well.

 

I'm not sure you followed my point. Let me try again. I'm not saying DA:I is dark. I'm saying DA:O isn't dark. By the standard you put forward, anyway. Put differently, by your standard there's no meaningful difference between DA:O and DA:I.

[ashwind]

I'm not sure you followed my point. Let me try again. I'm not saying DA:I is dark. I'm saying DA:O isn't dark. By the standard you put forward, anyway. Put differently, by your standard there's no meaningful difference between DA:O and DA:I.

 

What I am saying is I never use combat difficulty as a measurement of 'darkness'. In most games I play, I usually end up as this unstoppable machine of destruction. In DAO I rip through enemies, in DAI I rip through enemies. Thus I use 'atmosphere' as a measurement.

 

DAO has a grim atmosphere. DAI does not. Therefore to me one feels darker than the other. Atmosphere and ambient is important to me. Bioshock for example is known for its great atmosphere, just standing in Rapture gives you a dark and grim feeling. I am speaking of that sort of 'feeling'.

[Elhanan]

DAI does not have a grim atmosphere to some, but it does to me. For myself, a room full of corpses or seeing soldiers hung like trophies is unsettling. But I have noticed that I am finding more bodies and decay now than previously, as my eyes were focused on the detailed beauty of the setting.

Some differences between DAO and DAI is the use of color and light. In the Deep Roads, for DAO it was generally tunnels of browns and grey, and now it has underground seas and lyrium gardens.

[FKA_Servo]

Some differences between DAO and DAI is the use of color and light. In the Deep Roads, for DAO it was generally tunnels of browns and grey, and now it has underground seas and lyrium gardens.

 

Try the deep roads and everywhere else. I do not miss DAO's extensive palette, but I suppose that might be one of the things that lent it a "grim atmosphere" for some. Descent's deep roads are beautiful. Injecting a bit of color and character into it will never not be a good thing.

 

Spoiler

 

As far as I'm concerned (and apparently this is unpopular in some circles), DAI nails a unified, cohesive, and appealing aesthetic for Dragon Age.

[Elhanan]

Try the deep roads and everywhere else. I do not miss DAO's extensive palette, but I suppose that might be one of the things that lent it a "grim atmosphere" for some. Descent's deep roads are beautiful. Injecting a bit of color and character into it will never not be a good thing.
 

Spoiler

 
As far as I'm concerned (and apparently this is unpopular in some circles), DAI nails a unified, cohesive, and appealing aesthetic for Dragon Age.

For myself, every area in DAI has some appeal. The Fallow Mires are dreary and dark, the Hissing wastes are a welcome respite from the glaring Sun seen in other desert areas, and they are a relief when one has been drenched in rain while on the Storm Coast or in Crestwood. Etc.

But the game is huge; hard to get a quick character to play End Game materials, at least for me. And since it shall take some time before I get there, will have to remind myself to create a special Save before choosing a Specialization. As the new portrait indicates, thought I would give Rift Mage a try for this character, but may fall back to another Knight Enchanter; uncertain. But both end game DLC's have been worth the investment, IMO.

[Spectre Impersonator]

And also, Inquisition's ending is weak and bad, and many of the game's proponents readily admit this, so...

Does Bioware do endings any other way anymore? 

 

"We didn't have time." -Bioware's favorite cop out

[Saphiron123]

I don't want it to get to graphic with the example you describe, but picking up a bloody teddy bear or a wedding ring?  Weak, it's absolutely weak.  Besides, there are many other ways to show dark, gritty choices as both DA:O and TW3 has shown us.  

 

When I want to use my imagination, I go and read a book, when I want a visual representation of something, I watch a movie or play a video game.

 

I'm an adult.  As such, I want grown up games that don't pull punches and leave me to have to imagine all of the bad things.  I want my games to be able to sock me in the gut.  DA:I fails to do that as most of the time it feels like a game made for children.  There are some language and nudity, but other than those bits, the rest of the game feels like it is made for kids.  

 

Don't get me wrong, I still like more cutesy games at times, I love Plants vs. Zombies:  Garden Warfar.  But keep my Dragon Age games gritty and real.

Agreed. If DAI wants to avoid the subject of war, then they shouldn't include it int he game. Instea dthye tell us about it and never show us a damned thing, hell, we don't even get to participate in the pivotal battle between our own forces and corypheus'... in fact it's worse then that, we don't even get to see it. We hear about it at the war table after a few small skirmishes with groups of four. There's no refugees, there's no evidence of an actual war except dialogue and like three burning buildings in the hitnerlands. where are the mage and templar armies, why is the most inquisition soldiers i see the ones sparring in haven?

TW3 did it right. The first battlefield I rode through in velen, with the music and everything else was a scene to remember. That was what I waned from dragon age, I'm not 12, I can handle it as a mature adult... and if you're going to tell and epic tale of fantasy, there's nothing worse then just putting it in a damn codex entry instead of letting the player experience it.

Origins did a far better job then DAI. Haven was neat, but the rest of the game they didn't even bother to involve us or show us the giant war that is apparently ravaging the land. It made me feel uninvolved, like i was out mining rocks while Cullen did the real fighting.

Dai does kind of feel like it was made for kids. It feels sanitary and cleansed of anything outside of nudity that might be offensive to anyone. Emotional moments are rare, tough and gut wrenching decisions are rarer, and I think they failed to bring us the world of dragon age that we remember.

The end result is the world of tw3 feels engaging and real, and the world of dragon age feels bright and devoid of anything of meaning. And that's a damned shame because dragon age was once the world that delivered what the witcher does now. Darkspawn were nasty, brood mothers were disgusting, the archdemon's forces were daunting and the drama felt very real for it's time, and so did the characters due to the cinematic approach to conversation.

Impersonal, disconnected, that's what dragon age inquisition is. It has no sense of what it wants to be, it wants to show nudity and highlight different genders and sexualities, but god forbid they show a little blood or an actual battlefield. Next game they'll probably just cut the pretense and have the inquisitor stay in his room while cullen handles the military stuff.

[KBomb]

I actually don't mind Dragon Age's ambience. In fact, I like it. I don't expect for them to be like the Witcher when it comes to grim environment. I would just like to see DA utilize what they already have better. 

 

I believe they overused the War Table and a lot of those missions sounded really great and would have made quite an impact had the Inquisitor got to actually do them. I understand they can't show every effect of war, but show something more than burning homes and dead bodies everywhere and codex entries. It's one reason I think cutscenes are important, some of the conversations with people felt like banter. I understand that facial expression isn't important to everyone like it is me, but it's essential for communication and seeing someone expressing sorrow and pain, remorse or happiness in a simple side quest--goes a long way to draw one in. Example...

 

Spoiler

In the Black pearl quest when the husband tells you about his wife being sick. There was also a mission where you had to tell a father you found his son dead and his face was really great at expressing his sorrow, same with the mother whom you tell her son was either killed in battle or hung.

 

Anyway, I won't go into a long detail of what I mean, but I don't want Dragon Age to change in respect to how they do things. I just want them to put a little more detail and thought into it.

[Saphiron123]

What I am saying is I never use combat difficulty as a measurement of 'darkness'. In most games I play, I usually end up as this unstoppable machine of destruction. In DAO I rip through enemies, in DAI I rip through enemies. Thus I use 'atmosphere' as a measurement.

 

DAO has a grim atmosphere. DAI does not. Therefore to me one feels darker than the other. Atmosphere and ambient is important to me. Bioshock for example is known for its great atmosphere, just standing in Rapture gives you a dark and grim feeling. I am speaking of that sort of 'feeling'.

I agree with you, there is far more sad and grim moments and more grim imagery in DAO by a long shot. Part of it is because they showed that stuff, part of it is because DAI feels so bloody empty and everything in the maps nearly is totally insignificant. DAO had more drama, sad moments, fallen friends, you name it. The story of the brood mother, the hanging soldiers in the wilds, the dungeons in Arl Howe's castle, the origins that were usually kind of tragic.

DAO was a darker game, and the fact you can become strong at the end of a game doesn't detract from that darkness.

Considering how little evidence we see of anything dark in DAI, I was left feeling like if a little bluebird landed on my inquisitor's shoulder and started singing as he rode through the groves, it wouldn't be out of place with the tone of the game. Even the villains are pretty PC. They even removed most of the blood splatter after combat, something i will always associate with dragon age. And the colors! Christ, you'd be hard pressed to find something more colorful then DAI combat outside of a fireworks display.

Can't I cut off a darkspawn head or two, or stab a dragon through the neck once in a while? Frankly I'm amazed I was allowed a pointy weapon at this point.

[Saphiron123]

I actually don't mind Dragon Age's ambience. In fact, I like it. I don't expect for them to be like the Witcher when it comes to grim environment. I would just like to see DA utilize what they already have better. 

 

I believe they overused the War Table and a lot of those missions sounded really great and would have made quite an impact had the Inquisitor got to actually do them. I understand they can't show every effect of war, but show something more than burning homes and dead bodies everywhere and codex entries. It's one reason I think cutscenes are important, some of the conversations with people felt like banter. I understand that facial expression isn't important to everyone like it is me, but it's essential for communication and seeing someone expressing sorrow and pain, remorse or happiness in a simple side quest--goes a long way to draw one in. Example...

 

Spoiler

In the Black pearl quest when the husband tells you about his wife being sick. There was also a mission where you had to tell a father you found his son dead and his face was really great at expressing his sorrow, same with the mother whom you tell her son was either killed in battle or hung.

 

Anyway, I won't go into a long detail of what I mean, but I don't want Dragon Age to change in respect to how they do things. I just want them to put a little more detail and thought into it.

I agree. The characters in DAO were far more important feeling just because they weren't featureless cutouts like most of the npcs in DAI. Hard to care about a person whose emotional delivery (rare as that was in inquisition) is coming from a neutral faced set-piece.

[Realmzmaster]

Answer to all your questions for me is Origins.
And you are being over dramatic specially when we are just having a nice little debate. And no one even mentioned sjws.

 

You mean you missed the post by panzerwzh that said:

 

 

In next DA game, I would not be surprised to see transgender Tevinter mages equipped with sparkling magical grenade launcher marching with rainbow-tattooed Qunaris to fight for rights of same sex marriage.

 

That is what I was referring to.

[FKA_Servo]

You mean you missed the post by panzerwzh that said:

 

 

That is what I was referring to.

 

I was actually hoping we were all abiding by an unspoken agreement not to even acknowledge that one.

[panzerwzh]

I was actually hoping we were all abiding by an unspoken agreement not to even acknowledge that one.