15888 réponses à ce sujet

[panzerwzh]

You know it's going to happen

It is known...

[Ryzaki]

Yeah well I can live without witcher grit in my dragon age. My favorite parts of origins tended to have golden ending outcomes so I rather they just improve on what they do well the characters and the PCs interactions with them and improve on the sidequests. The rest of the stuff can stay with the Witcher because I certainly didn't play Dragon age for that.

 

An excellent cast of characters and being able to interact with them in multiple ways is what I recall fondly of Dragon Age. Not how gritty it was (other than the plot dumb Dark Ritual that had enough plot holes to drive a boat through). BioWare's main stories have always had a bit of a "huh" thing to me and I've played both BGs, JE, KOTOR, ME and DA series. I'm not sure about NWN because I didn't touch that one.

 

The one thing BW should strive to be like TW2 in is side quests. Everything else was fine. I'd like more political intrigue but that's not a necessity.

[FKA_Servo]

snip

 

Not even a little bit. It was a tasteless and insulting observation.

[Xetykins]

For DA4 they should scrap that War Table. Or at least make us take part of the quests. There was a lot of quests there that would have taken DAI to new heights.

I just don't want to read about things. I want to be a part of the story they tell. This is a game after all and not a book so let us experience those.

And oh scrap the advisors too so the need to give them a job at the expense of the player's adventure will go away.

[Kresa]

Well i will just state the obvious : 

 

Lore:
1) Interesting side quests. 
2) meaningful outcomes for quests.

3) more epic ending mission.

Why its not in the game (not a 100% fact) --> They focused on way to many things and had to give up on that( 5 gaming devices + multiplayer ).

Gameplay:
1) a better tactical camera
2) a faster phased gameplay ( Its probebly not something that many people care about, but when you play multiplayer those slow reactions can be very annoying - moving to the side, trying to stand up again and more... )

Multiplayer
1) More maps / missions 
2) Text chat + option to add ppl to friend list in game ( for me its really missing since i play alot of mmo games and its the only game that doesnt      have that ).
3) number '2' on Gameplay.

Well i just realized i went out of topic since Witcher 3 doesnt even got a multiplayer, but the Lore section is exactly what i liked in W3 and felt the lack of in DA:I.

[Elhanan]

For DA4 they should scrap that War Table. Or at least make us take part of the quests. There was a lot of quests there that would have taken DAI to new heights.

I just don't want to read about things. I want to be a part of the story they tell. This is a game after all and not a book so let us experience those.

And oh scrap the advisors too so the need to give them a job at the expense of the player's adventure will go away.

Seeing as the War Table is a feature many like including myself, I would rather keep it, but would not mind seeing some of these events be revealed more often. That is, construction, cameos, etc. Still leave the bulk of the busy work on the WT itself, but have more effect on the matters we can see.

[Das Tentakel]

For DA4 they should scrap that War Table. Or at least make us take part of the quests. There was a lot of quests there that would have taken DAI to new heights.

I just don't want to read about things. I want to be a part of the story they tell. This is a game after all and not a book so let us experience those.

And oh scrap the advisors too so the need to give them a job at the expense of the player's adventure will go away.

 

They were little more than 'quest ideas' though  -translating them into actual quests woud probably have cost too many resources, meaning they would have had to cut other things - and I'm talking actual quest content (meaning main quest and companion quest material) here, not the cheap and repetitive filler stuff.

 

If I remember correctly, there are going to be conceptually very similar 'missions' in ME:Andromeda, and some of those will be actually playable. At least, that's the intent. However, I suspect something else will be cut, so whether this is going to be an overall improvement...

[nici2412]

I don't think the approach is that different. There are certain things you just can't show. The difference is that bioware and CDP define this boundary different and they choose slightly different approaches how to tell the player that it still exists. Bioware chose the codex entries  while a lot of the really heavy stuff in Witcher 3 is told via npc conversations.   

 

Most people probably haven't seen it, but there is some really disturbing stuff in Velen, especially whenever the Baron's men are involved.

I couldn't find a youtube video of it so I  wrote one conversation down

if you are overly  sensitive don't click on the spoiler tag:

Spoiler

Baron's man 1: "I step in that hut and there is this bumpkin with what looks like his son.  Lad's on the pretty side, I think on meself."
Baron's man 2: "Hayseed, probably disguised his daughter,heheh."
Baron's man 3:  "Whoreson's always manage to hide their lasses."
Baron's man 1: "Thought he'd outsmarted me, the arsewhipe."
Baron's man 3: "Mean he hadn't?"
Baron's man 1:  "I ploughed the snout out of this little ****- lad, lass or whatever it was."
Baron's man 2: "Haha, must have surprised the old cood. Bet he wet himself."

 

Another one was a father telling his daughter that she has to hide in the woods before the Baron's men arrive. As the quest progressed and the baron's men arrived you can see the father talking to one of them

Spoiler

Baron's man: "You have a young daughter right?"
Father: "Search where you will"
Baron's man: "One of these days you will not hide her in time. Hear me? And you will watch every lad in the unit shag her senseless. "

 

There is also a (easily missable) quest in Crow's Perch later,

Spoiler

when the Baron is gone. You hear a woman screaming, because one of the baron's men want's to rape her while another stands outside of the house and prevents that anybody enters the hut. Alll this happens while the woman's father outside of the house is begging the man to not hurt her.

 

These are just some examples, but if you listen to the npcs in Velen there is a lot of grim stuff Bioware wouldn't even tell in codex entries.

[KBomb]

I don't think the approach is that different. There are certain things you just can't show. The difference is that bioware and CDP define this boundary different and they choose slightly different approaches how to tell the player that it still exists. Bioware chose the codex entry  while a lot of the really heavy stuff in Witcher 3 is told via npc conversations.   

 

Most people probably haven't seen it, but there is some really disturbing stuff in Velen, especially whenever the Baron's men are involved.

I couldn't find a youtube video of it so I  wrote one conversation down

if you are overly  sensitive don't click on the spoiler tag:

Spoiler

Baron's man 1: "I step in that hut and there is this bumpkin with what looks like his son.  Lad's on the pretty side, I think on meself."
Baron's man 2: "Hayseed, probably disguised his daughter,heheh."
Baron's man 3:  "Whoreson's always manage to hide their lasses."
Baron's man 1: "Thought he'd outsmarted me, the arsewhipe."
Baron man 3: "Mean he hadn't?"
Baron man 1:  "I ploughed the snout out of this little ****- lad, lass or whatever it was."
Barin man 2: "Haha, must have surprised the old cood. Bet he wet himself."

 

Another  was a father telling his daughter that she has to hide in the woods before the Baron's men arrive. As the quest progressed and the baron's men arrive you can see the father talking to one of them

Spoiler

Baron's man: "You have a young daughter right?"
Father: "Search where you will"
Baron's man: "One of these days you will not hide her in time. Hear me? And you will watch every lad in the unit shag her senseless. "

 

There is also a (easily missable) quest in Crow's Perch later,

Spoiler

when the Baron is gone. You hear a woman screaming, because one of the baron's men want's to rape her while another stands outside of the house and prevents that anybody enters the house. Alll this happens while the woman's father outside of the house is begging the man to not hurt her.

 

These are just some examples, but if you listen to the npcs in Velen there is a lot of grim stuff Bioware wouldn't even tell in codex entries.

Wow, chilling stuff. I miss so much of the banter in games, so anytime someone takes the time to post some, I appreciate it. 

 

Spoiler

I thought the serial killed quest was disturbing. That guy was a freaking nutball. Seeing Priscilla all banged up and hearing how he went about his torture made the quest feel important, like you had to find that guy and stop him. I had the same reaction when I saw that Whoreson Junior had nailed that woman to the wall. I knew if CDPR allowed it, I wasn't leaving that place until he was dead. I don't know if I would have felt that same importance and urgency had I simply read codex entries. They would have most likely ended up being read and stored and forgotten.

[nici2412]

Wow, chilling stuff. I miss so much of the banter in games, so anytime someone takes the time to post some, I appreciate it. 

 

Spoiler

I thought the serial killed quest was disturbing. That guy was a freaking nutball. Seeing Priscilla all banged up and hearing how he went about his torture made the quest feel important, like you had to find that guy and stop him. I had the same reaction when I saw that Whoreson Junior had nailed that woman to the wall. I knew if CDPR allowed it, I wasn't leaving that place until he was dead. I don't know if I would have felt that same importance and urgency had I simply read codex entries. They would have most likely ended up being read and stored and forgotten.

That quest was indeed very well done and I was really angry after I saw what happened to her. I had a strong personal interest in finding the person responsible for it. I agree with you that a codex entry or just being told about it wouldn't have anywhere the same emotional impact.

 

I definitely can recommend to just take some time and listen to npc banter. There are so many interesting little stories they tell and many of them heavily contribute to the world building and even complete some of the quests.(for example there is a banter about the Lord and his son Florian in White Orchard. Several quests in the prologue area deal with what happened to them)

I started my 3rd and probably last playthrough with NG+ a few days ago and this time I listen to every banter and I can't believe how much I missed in my previous playthroughts. Hearing how a son asks his mother why they have to eat rats again and her saying that she is sorry but can't afford anything else was really heartbreaking.

[Kallas_br123]

Not even a little bit. It was a tasteless and insulting observation.

So he should not make a joke, because it could offend someone, and can be considered tasteless?

[MoonDrummer]

So he should not make a joke, because it could offend someone, and can be considered tasteless?

RIP Tim Hunt. 

[ashwind]

The War Table is better off as a mobile app. Wait... no... EA would probably micro transaction me to speed up operation time.

[Wolven_Soul]

Yeah well I can live without witcher grit in my dragon age. My favorite parts of origins tended to have golden ending outcomes so I rather they just improve on what they do well the characters and the PCs interactions with them and improve on the sidequests. The rest of the stuff can stay with the Witcher because I certainly didn't play Dragon age for that.

 

An excellent cast of characters and being able to interact with them in multiple ways is what I recall fondly of Dragon Age. Not how gritty it was (other than the plot dumb Dark Ritual that had enough plot holes to drive a boat through). BioWare's main stories have always had a bit of a "huh" thing to me and I've played both BGs, JE, KOTOR, ME and DA series. I'm not sure about NWN because I didn't touch that one.

 

The one thing BW should strive to be like TW2 in is side quests. Everything else was fine. I'd like more political intrigue but that's not a necessity.

 

The original Dragon Age, the one that got most of us hooked on this franchise to begin with, was plenty gritty and grim.  Not as much so as The Witcher, but it certainly wasn't all sunshine and daisies, which is what DA:I is closer to. 

 

The great cast of characters and all the interesting interactions are wonderful, don't get me wrong.  But they do not a game make.  The story is far more important, and the original Dragon Age's story was pretty danged grim.  

[Xetykins]

That quest was indeed very well done and I was really angry after I saw what happened to her. I had a strong personal interest in finding the person responsible for it. I agree with you that a codex entry or just being told about it wouldn't have anywhere the same emotional impact.
 
I definitely can recommend to just take some time and listen to npc banter. There are so many interesting little stories they tell and many of them heavily contribute to the world building and even complete some of the quests.(for example there is a banter about the Lord and his son Florian in White Orchard. Several quests in the prologue area deal with what happened to them)
I started my 3rd and probably last playthrough with NG+ a few days ago and this time I listen to every banter and I can't believe how much I missed in my previous playthroughts. Hearing how a son asks his mother why they have to eat rats again and her saying that she is sorry but can't afford anything else was really heartbreaking.

Also the crones. Gawd... I wanted to kill them right away as soon as I saw one of them had a child's leg and arm dangling from her apron. Offff...I was so disappointed and fuming that I could not.

[Wolven_Soul]

They were little more than 'quest ideas' though  -translating them into actual quests woud probably have cost too many resources, meaning they would have had to cut other things - and I'm talking actual quest content (meaning main quest and companion quest material) here, not the cheap and repetitive filler stuff.

 

If I remember correctly, there are going to be conceptually very similar 'missions' in ME:Andromeda, and some of those will be actually playable. At least, that's the intent. However, I suspect something else will be cut, so whether this is going to be an overall improvement...

 

I don't think they would have to cut main qust and character quest material to have made some of those war board things actual missions.  First off, there was barely a main quest line, short as it was.  And secondly, I would have rather have had a few of those war board ideas turned into actual missions rather the entirety of the side content of DA:I excluding those companion missions. 

[Das Tentakel]

That quest was indeed very well done and I was really angry after I saw what happened to her. I had a strong personal interest in finding the person responsible for it. I agree with you that a codex entry or just being told about it wouldn't have anywhere the same emotional impact.

I definitely can recommend to just take some time and listen to npc banter. There are so many interesting little stories they tell and many of them heavily contribute to the world building and even complete some of the quests.(for example there is a banter about the Lord and his son Florian in White Orchard. Several quests in the prologue area deal with what happened to them)
I started my 3rd and probably last playthrough with NG+ a few days ago and this time I listen to every banter and I can't believe how much I missed in my previous playthroughts. Hearing how a son asks his mother why they have to eat rats again and her saying that she is sorry but can't afford anything else was really heartbreaking.

One of the differences between CDPR and BioWare is that virtually all of CDPR’s devs (even the non-Polish ones from, say, Germany, the Netherlands or France) are from countries where war and occupation are still within living memory. It’s a subject that is also given a fair amount of attention at school, in the form of monuments, commemorations etc.
Canada’s last invasion was in 1812 (even though some Bio employees do come from countries that have had recent experience with war).

Poland was one of the countries that was hardest hit; even my own country (the Netherlands), which got off rather lightly, there are lots of little stories. My own father was sent to the countryside by my grandparents during the wartime famine (the ‘Hongerwinter’ or ‘’Hunger Winter’) of 1945. Other kids weren’t so lucky.

Multiply this kind of suffering 10 times and you’ve got Poland and the western Soviet Union during WW2. I’ve run into references to cannibalism in besieged Leningrad; let’s just say you didn’t want to be an orphaned kid who had to fend for him- / herself in that city in 1942-3. I wouldn’t be surprised if the presence of cannibals in Velen was inspired by those stories (perhaps in addition to other cases of cannibalism during extreme wartime conditions).
 
I think this kind of thing matters - Bio's devs do know (broadly) what war entails, but it's much more of a remote thing to (the overwhelming majority of) them. For Europeans (in particular mainland Europeans and strongest in the east) it's much closer in time and space (...Former Yugoslavia...Ukraine...). CDPR wanted to do the impact of war, as their devs and a large part of their audience understood it, some justice, so they did...

[hoechlbear]

Being dark to me is not about certain details; like picking up some silly bloodied doll. Or some dying soilder's last words.

 

It is about the atmosphere and a sense of dread and despair that the game makes players feel. 

 

I forgot to mention this on my comment. I absolutely agree. DAI can show me as much corpses as they want, but if the atmosphere isn't right, then it's just not going to do anything for me. The first example from TW3 that comes to my mind is when you're doing the quest "missing in action" and you have to go through a battlefield filled with corpses and dead horses and you can see all around signs of destruction, that there was a battle there, there's even a little fog roaming about. The soundtrack (something that is almost nonexistent in DAI) that starts playing the moment you approach the battlefield really contributes to the atmosphere and I think it's crucial, because the right soundtrack can take powerful moments to the next level and help you make you feel the right emotions in that situation. Not to mention, Geralt comments on the sight, another thing that I think it's important. He wanders alone in the world but he is always talking to himself, commenting on things he comes across. In DAI you see all these dead bodies and read letters that tell sad stories but not a single word from your character or your companions. It's like you're picking herbs and not letters from dead bodies. So it comes to a point where you're just like, "meh, another corpse."

 

Spoiler

[panzerwzh]

One of the differences between CDPR and BioWare is that virtually all of CDPR’s devs (even the non-Polish ones from, say, Germany, the Netherlands or France) are from countries where war and occupation are still within living memory. It’s a subject that is also given a fair amount of attention at school, in the form of monuments, commemorations etc.
Canada’s last invasion was in 1812 (even though some Bio employees do come from countries that have had recent experience with war).

Poland was one of the countries that was hardest hit; even my own country (the Netherlands), which got off rather lightly, there are lots of little stories. My own father was sent to the countryside by my grandparents during the wartime famine (the ‘Hongerwinter’ or ‘’Hunger Winter’) of 1945. Other kids weren’t so lucky.

Multiply this kind of suffering 10 times and you’ve got Poland and the western Soviet Union during WW2. I’ve run into references to cannibalism in besieged Leningrad; let’s just say you didn’t want to be an orphaned kid who had to fend for him- / herself in that city in 1942-3. I wouldn’t be surprised if the presence of cannibals in Velen was inspired by those stories (perhaps in addition to other cases of cannibalism during extreme wartime conditions).
 
I think this kind of thing matters - Bio's devs do know (broadly) what war entails, but it's much more of a remote thing to (the overwhelming majority of) them. For Europeans (in particular mainland Europeans and strongest in the east) it's much closer in time and space (...Former Yugoslavia...Ukraine...). CDPR wanted to do the impact of war, as their devs and a large part of their audience understood it, some justice, so they did...

Second it.

[nici2412]

 
I think this kind of thing matters - Bio's devs do know (broadly) what war entails, but it's much more of a remote thing to (the overwhelming majority of) them. For Europeans (in particular mainland Europeans and strongest in the east) it's much closer in time and space (...Former Yugoslavia...Ukraine...). CDPR wanted to do the impact of war, as their devs and a large part of their audience understood it, some justice, so they did...

That's a good point. Maybe that's the reason why the portrayal of war in Dragon Age feels so artificial to me, so clean and sanitized.It's like a high fantasy version of war, which has little to do with the reality. I learnt in school what horrible things Germany has done (I'm german myself), I have heard stories from my grandparents about their suffering during the second world war (they are polish).

Like you mentioned, it also has to do with their fanbases. If you check the sales, forums etc you see that the majority of the Witcher core fanbase is mostly spread across europe while the Dragon Age fanbase is probably dominated by North Americans.

Therefore maybe we just have to accept that Bioware doesn't want to portay the war like it really is. (or they just can't), because that's not something big parts of the fanbase would want. Why are we still arguing then? Probably because the franchise started with a game, that was closer to the european middle- ages.

Inquisition changed that. The whole atmosphere of the game now resembles a typical high fantasy setting similar to Lord of the Rings. No matter how many "bad" things they show or tell. It lacks the atmosphere, the world building and the understanding how a war works with all it's cruelties.

[Fiery Phoenix]

One of the differences between CDPR and BioWare is that virtually all of CDPR’s devs (even the non-Polish ones from, say, Germany, the Netherlands or France) are from countries where war and occupation are still within living memory. It’s a subject that is also given a fair amount of attention at school, in the form of monuments, commemorations etc.
Canada’s last invasion was in 1812 (even though some Bio employees do come from countries that have had recent experience with war).

Poland was one of the countries that was hardest hit; even my own country (the Netherlands), which got off rather lightly, there are lots of little stories. My own father was sent to the countryside by my grandparents during the wartime famine (the ‘Hongerwinter’ or ‘’Hunger Winter’) of 1945. Other kids weren’t so lucky.

Multiply this kind of suffering 10 times and you’ve got Poland and the western Soviet Union during WW2. I’ve run into references to cannibalism in besieged Leningrad; let’s just say you didn’t want to be an orphaned kid who had to fend for him- / herself in that city in 1942-3. I wouldn’t be surprised if the presence of cannibals in Velen was inspired by those stories (perhaps in addition to other cases of cannibalism during extreme wartime conditions).
 
I think this kind of thing matters - Bio's devs do know (broadly) what war entails, but it's much more of a remote thing to (the overwhelming majority of) them. For Europeans (in particular mainland Europeans and strongest in the east) it's much closer in time and space (...Former Yugoslavia...Ukraine...). CDPR wanted to do the impact of war, as their devs and a large part of their audience understood it, some justice, so they did...

 

To add to this, here's what a quest designer at CDPR had to say in answer to a fan's question on Ask.fm:

 

Q: Sometimes the most interesting ideas for quests and gameplay can come from the most unorthodox of sources such as a real life experience or different types of entertainment entirely. Has that happened for you whether it be for Witcher 3[(and its expansions] or previous games you've worked on?

 

A: Happens all the time! Honestly, when you make quests you should draw from real life experiences or inpirations. Even when you make something up on the spot, you'll be influenced by what you have experienced previously. How are we going to create interesting experiences if we don't have experiences ourselves? The events surrounding the war-torn land of No Mans Land for example were, for me, often influenced by my own experiences during a Tour in Kosovo.

 

Link

[MoonDrummer]

Spoiler

One of the differences between CDPR and BioWare is that virtually all of CDPR’s devs (even the non-Polish ones from, say, Germany, the Netherlands or France) are from countries where war and occupation are still within living memory. It’s a subject that is also given a fair amount of attention at school, in the form of monuments, commemorations etc.
Canada’s last invasion was in 1812 (even though some Bio employees do come from countries that have had recent experience with war).

Poland was one of the countries that was hardest hit; even my own country (the Netherlands), which got off rather lightly, there are lots of little stories. My own father was sent to the countryside by my grandparents during the wartime famine (the ‘Hongerwinter’ or ‘’Hunger Winter’) of 1945. Other kids weren’t so lucky.

Multiply this kind of suffering 10 times and you’ve got Poland and the western Soviet Union during WW2. I’ve run into references to cannibalism in besieged Leningrad; let’s just say you didn’t want to be an orphaned kid who had to fend for him- / herself in that city in 1942-3. I wouldn’t be surprised if the presence of cannibals in Velen was inspired by those stories (perhaps in addition to other cases of cannibalism during extreme wartime conditions).
 
I think this kind of thing matters - Bio's devs do know (broadly) what war entails, but it's much more of a remote thing to (the overwhelming majority of) them. For Europeans (in particular mainland Europeans and strongest in the east) it's much closer in time and space (...Former Yugoslavia...Ukraine...). CDPR wanted to do the impact of war, as their devs and a large part of their audience understood it, some justice, so they did...

I come from Northern Ireland and the portrayal of the squirrels really reminds me of the IRA. You have people that call them terrorists, murderers, freedom fighters and just plain old dipshits. Young people that are encouraged and then sold out by their elders. 'Humans to the sea!' is a lot like 'Brits go home!' etc etc.

 

I definitely prefer it to the constant whining the Dalish do. 

 

 

Spoiler

I forgot to mention this on my comment. I absolutely agree. DAI can show me as much corpses as they want, but if the atmosphere isn't right, then it's just not going to do anything for me. The first example from TW3 that comes to my mind is when you're doing the quest "missing in action" and you have to go through a battlefield filled with corpses and dead horses and you can see all around signs of destruction, that there was a battle there, there's even a little fog roaming about. The soundtrack (something that is almost nonexistent in DAI) that starts playing the moment you approach the battlefield really contributes to the atmosphere and I think it's crucial, because the right soundtrack can take powerful moments to the next level and help you make you feel the right emotions for that situation. Not to mention, Geralt comments on the sight, another thing that I think it's important. In DAI you come across all these dead bodies and read letters that tell sad stories but not a single word from your character or your companions. And when all you do is come across dead bodies, it comes to a point where you're just like, "meh, another corpse with a letter."

 

Spoiler

RIP Temeria. I for one wont let the Black Ones get away with killing brave king Foltest. His beloved son-in-law will sit on your throne, I swear it!

[FKA_Servo]

So he should not make a joke, because it could offend someone, and can be considered tasteless?

 

Well, you could learn the difference between a joke and a trite, hackneyed "herp derp Bioware EssJayDubyas lol" post fishing for likes from similarly thoughtless posters. If it betrayed a single original thought, it might be funny. But I don't think he needs you jumping to his defense, and I assure you, I am not impinging on anyone's hallowed, Canadian constitutionally protected right to free speech on a video game forum.

 

RIP Temeria. I for one wont let the Black Ones get away with killing brave king Foltest. His beloved son-in-law will sit on your throne, I swear it!

 

You know, I was wondering about this. I saved Adda, and she hooked up with Radovid, but as far as I can tell there are no import flags related to her in TW2 and TW3. Does she even show up? And if so, is she destined to rule both Redania and Temeria alone?

[MoonDrummer]

You know, I was wondering about this. I saved Adda, and she hooked up with Radovid, but as far as I can tell there are no import flags related to her in TW2 and TW3. Does she even show up? And if so, is she destined to rule both Redania and Temeria alone?

She is mentioned in TW2. Foltest says that the nobility will never accept a Redanian on the throne and Radovid says that Anaiss will be safe in Redania with her older sister. 

 

In TW3 it's just pure headcanon. 

[FKA_Servo]

She is mentioned in TW2. Foltest says that the nobility will never accept a Redanian on the throne and Radovid says that Anaiss will be safe in Redania with her older sister. 

 

In TW3 it's just pure headcanon. 

 

Neat. Guessing that particular nugget is dropped in the Roche path, in that case. I need to get around to doing that, but honestly I'm not sure I can go back to play TW2.