15882 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

This is how I perceived the game. You may say I`m overlooking details or I`m not getting it, I say the writers/devs failed to make it clear. Maybe it´s a thing of expectation. I approach games as interactive movies and want the scenes to be acted out. I don`t like to imagine what happens offscreen or to flesh out characters myself. For that I turn to pen and paper Rpgs. 
Take the horserace for example: I can imagine your young hothead not caring about the circumstances. But she wasn`t portrayed as such. I don`t recall her voiceactor to "be excited", her father calling her to order, or herself doing anything childish. What I took away from that scene was her going: "Fade Rifts? Wolves? Meh..business as usuall". Hurts my gaming experience and makes for bad atmosphere in my eyes.
 
So I take it you didn`t play the Witcher Series? May I ask why? And may I ask how you think about the storrytelling in ME3 compared to DAI?

Things were omitted that were explained and included. It is not a matter of opinion to hold a charge of AWOL when the soldier is standing their post. A video was watched to see if I was correct or not of some minor point, so it is not inconceivable that other points and accusations are also in error.

And if the approach is to leave the imagination behind and approach these games as interactive cut-scenes and films, then I expect this may be a source of the flaws.

As for the Witcher series, as a few here can tell you, my objections are a lack of Pause functionality somewhat needed for gameplay, and too much ESRB content that is not optional or avoidable. Perhaps things at CDPR will improve after the book based series; will see.

[FKA_Servo]

My bad. Started reading at the beginning and was to lazy to finish the other 300+ pages. Just seemed a good spot to start a discussion, as our opinions on storytelling in DAI seem to differ quite a bit. To me, after Awakening the whole franchise went downhill. Have to admit though, the final portion of Trespasser was one of the few parts in Inquisition that got me emotionally invested and on top - interested in the next game, although I was determined to dislike it.

 

As for your resistance to beeing swayed and incorporating your advice 

 

Incoming hypocritical wall o' text...

 

I don't even remember what post of mine you were responding to, but since I made it on May 12th, I'm not going to bother going back to clarify, because it probably doesn't matter at this point. Suffice to say that my position, then and now, is that DAI is uneven as all hell (which doesn't necessarily surprise me, as the development cycle was more troubled then most recent Bioware games). Its strength possibly isn't its overarching story, but the moment to moment developments, the character interactions, and the detail and depth of the lore and history (much of which is conveyed through secondary material and the war table missions, granted, which is an approach that's not to everyone's taste), which is magnificently expanded upon in DAI. CDPR's world design is off the charts great (seriously, I can't praise them enough for it), but the setting (and the source material) is about an inch deep, compared to the expansiveness of the Dragon Age setting - and it's nothing revolutionary. It's boilerplate european fantasy. The story in TW3 is incredibly well-written and well-executed, but it's nothing nearly as daring or novel as the framed narrative of DA2, for example.

 

Obviously we'll disagree on characterization as well (you really think Whoreson Jr, a one-note sexual sadist, is not only compelling, but compelling enough to single him out among those other characters? Really? Ok, but that's creepy, and I'm gonna go sit over here, then.), because I think that Bioware's creativity and execution WRT their characters is stronger than it's ever been. The cast of DAI was wonderful, the companion writing was wonderful. The romance subplots were some of the best of any game they've released. This has been mostly true in TW, though, too. It's a well-written, memorable cast and Geralt is a lot of fun to play as. The Triss romance has been really nice, and I'm excited for them to flesh it out more (I've put the game on hold till they do that, but I've got over a hundred hours /played...).

 

I'm not surprised that people hate on DAI when it's a good game, because there are also people who hate on DAO (and Mass Effect 2, and BG, and BG2, etc and so forth). For my part, I don't know what some people saw in DAO that was missing in DAI yet present in TW3. The games are, to me, so drastically different (story priorities, game design, world design, everything) that I hardly think you can compare them. It's like comparing Fallout 2 to Fallout 3.

 

If there's any confusion, I do think The Witcher 3 is an excellent, great game. I just wish they'd hurry it up with the damn Triss patch.

[DanielR]

My own opinion is that these are the best Dragons encountered thus far in any cRPG's for myself.
 

 

Yes, the dragons are probably the best animated dragons I´ve ever seen in a game too and the fight in the Hinterlands is beautifully choreographed, but I don´t think four people should be enough to kill a dragon, let alone a good dozen of them. It takes away from their fascination and danger. By the time I confronted Corypheus`dragon, I had already slain ten of them, so he didn`t put up any challenge. And is a lack of excitement really the atmosphere you want to establish in your final confrontation? And if the game insists on its pile of dragons, why has every encounter to be the same? There is no variety, except maybe the different types of resistances one has to care about. Why can`t we weaken one dragon by poisoning a herd of cattle, why can`t we attack another with an army? Why can`t we curse one`s hoard and trap another one in the fade? And why does every dragon stay, untill it`s dead? Don´t they have wings?

 

And about experiencing sth. trumping reading about it: Codex entrys can add to the atmosphere, but for my taste DAI is far to reliant on them. In a movie I wouldn`t want a narrator to guide me trough either. 

[Elhanan]

Because it's vile and putrid, and salted something something of death, not "well done" sushi etc etc.

Still don't get it, but that is understandable as some prefer to read into the text instead of the reverse.

I loathe sushi, and would probably not try it. But pizza is something I adore and sorely have missed, but still cannot stand anchovies; ruins the whole experience.

TW3 looks to be a fine dish, but has too many ESRB anchovies for me to bother with tasting to try a slice.

[Elhanan]

Yes, the dragons are probably the best animated dragons I´ve ever seen in a game too and the fight in the Hinterlands is beautifully choreographed, but I don´t think four people should be enough to kill a dragon, let alone a good dozen of them. It takes away from their fascination and danger. By the time I confronted Corypheus`dragon, I had already slain ten of them, so he didn`t put up any challenge. And is a lack of excitement really the atmosphere you want to establish in your final confrontation? And if the game insists on its pile of dragons, why has every encounter to be the same? There is no variety, except maybe the different types of resistances one has to care about. Why can`t we weaken one dragon by poisoning a herd of cattle, why can`t we attack another with an army? Why can`t we curse one`s hoard and trap another one in the fade? And why does every dragon stay, untill it`s dead? Don´t they have wings?
 
And about experiencing sth. trumping reading about it: Codex entrys can add to the atmosphere, but for my taste DAI is far to reliant on them. In a movie I wouldn`t want a narrator to guide me trough either.

Every Dragon encounter in DAI differs from another, I believe. And while a prepared team can develop a strategy to overcome them, it ain't so easy when one is not prepared, or has no plan.

Currently, am looking forward to meeting my first one in my current campaign that has been scaled up to my level, but I do not believe I shall rely on luck to defeat it, as Nightmare difficulty was already tough enough for the previous two playthroughs.

[KBomb]

This is how I perceived the game. You may say I`m overlooking details or I`m not getting it, I say the writers/devs failed to make it clear. Maybe it´s a thing of expectation. I approach games as interactive movies and want the scenes to be acted out. I don`t like to imagine what happens offscreen or to flesh out characters myself. For that I turn to pen and paper Rpgs.
Take the horserace for example: I can imagine your young hothead not caring about the circumstances. But she wasn`t portrayed as such. I don`t recall her voiceactor to "be excited", her father calling her to order, or herself doing anything childish. What I took away from that scene was her going: "Fade Rifts? Wolves? Meh..business as usuall". Hurts my gaming experience and makes for bad atmosphere in my eyes.

So I take it you didn`t play the Witcher Series? May I ask why? And may I ask how you think about the storrytelling in ME3 compared to DAI?

I definitely agree with you, especially with the lack of concern with the rifts. The widow who had her ring stolen is another example. Rift right outside her house and she couldn't care less.

And no, Elhanan has never attempted to play TW3. His sole occupation in this thread is to spread the word of the holy Inquisition and to punish blasphemers with redundancies.

[FKA_Servo]

I definitely agree with you, especially with the lack of concern with the rifts. The widow who had her ring stolen is another example. Rift right outside her house and she couldn't care less.

And no, Elhanan has never attempted to play TW3. His sole occupation in this thread is to spread the word of the holy Inquisition and to punish blasphemers with redundancies.

 

I think it's a forgivable concession to gameplay mechanics. I'd rather be able to take my time and not miss out on stuff. It's the same in TW3 - the stakes are pretty high when we've located Ciri and I go off to rescue her on that enchanted island, but I can still poke along at my leisure while traveling there without worrying. This is the case in lots of other games, too (notable exceptions that come to mind are ME2 and ME3 - and it was annoying there).

 

You can still have narrative urgency without the game penalizing you for taking your sweet time. Maybe it requires compartmentalizing the story away from the gameplay somewhat, but I'm fine doing that, personally.

[Elhanan]

I definitely agree with you, especially with the lack of concern with the rifts. The widow who had her ring stolen is another example. Rift right outside her house and she couldn't care less.

And no, Elhanan has never attempted to play TW3. His sole occupation in this thread is to spread the word of the holy Inquisition and to punish blasphemers with redundancies.

Only half correct. If one re-reads that opening bit, the answer may be a tad more obvious that reason and logic may not be the key issues.

[KBomb]

I think it's a forgivable concession to gameplay mechanics. I'd rather be able to take my time and not miss out on stuff. It's the same in TW3 - the stakes are pretty high when I'm off to rescue Ciri on that enchanted island, but I can still poke along at my leisure while traveling there - and lots of other games (notable exceptions that come to mind are ME2 and ME3 - and it was annoying there).

You can still have narrative urgency without the game penalizing you for taking your sweet time.

I am not talking about urgency, I am talking about reactivity. I am glad there are no "timers", as I like to go at my own pace. I just wish people would at least acknowledge that there is a rift or a pack of bandits camped outside. Would have been nice to hear about the refugees being hungry from them a bit, instead of the one guy who claims to have no more bread, yet is next to a house full of foods. Haunches of meats and fish all over the place. What a liar. I have a bunch of refugees back at Haven who don't have proper bandages and that fool wants me to hunt and kill ten rams while he has an entire boar hanging out in his crib? My motto for that whole refugee camp is "Screw you guys, I'm going home."

As many times as I return, I never see a frosty morning or one refugee huddled with a warm blanket. They're all in the same place, from beginning to end, happy and laughing.

[Elhanan]

I am not talking about urgency, I am talking about reactivity. I am glad there are no "timers", as I like to go at my own pace. I just wish people would at least acknowledge that there is a rift or a pack of bandits camped outside. Would have been nice to hear about the refugees being hungry from them a bit, instead of the one guy who claims to have no more bread, yet is next to a house full of foods. Haunches of meats and fish all over the place. What a liar. I have a bunch of refugees back at Haven who don't have proper bandages and that fool wants me to hunt and kill ten rams while he has an entire boar hanging out in his crib? My motto for that whole refugee camp is "Screw you guys, I'm going home."

As many times as I return, I never see a frosty morning or one refugee huddled with a warm blanket. They're all in the same place, from beginning to end, happy and laughing.

One could look around a bit. Found such a family in Crestwood this week; were so thankful for the aid they received. Also found that Cheese shield, but do not require it this time.

[DanielR]

Incoming hypocritical wall o' text...

 

I don't even remember what post of mine you were responding to, but since I made it on May 12th, I'm not going to bother going back to clarify, because it probably doesn't matter at this point. Suffice to say that my position, then and now, is that DAI is uneven as all hell (which doesn't necessarily surprise me, as the development cycle was more troubled then most recent Bioware games). Its strength possibly wasn't it's overarching story, but the moment to moment developments, the character interactions, and the detail and depth of the lore and history (much of which is conveyed through secondary material and the war table missions, granted, which is an approach that's not to everyone's taste), which was magnificently expanded upon in DAI. CDPR's world design is off the charts great (seriously, I can't praise them enough for it), but the setting (and the source material) is about an inch deep, compared to the expansiveness of the Dragon Age setting - and it's nothing revolutionary. It's boilerplate european fantasy. The story in TW3 is incredibly well-written and well-executed, but it's nothing nearly as daring or novel as the framed narrative of DA2, for example.

 

Obviously we'll disagree on characterization as well (you really think Whoreson Jr, a one-note sexual sadist, is not only compelling, but compelling enough to single him out among those other characters? Really? Ok, but that's creepy, and I'm gonna go sit over here, then.), because I think that Bioware's creativity and execution WRT their characters is stronger than it's ever been. The cast of DAI was wonderful, the companion writing was wonderful. The romance subplots were some of the best of any game they've released. This has been mostly true in TW, though, too. It's a well-written, memorable cast and Geralt is a lot of fun to play as. The Triss romance has been really nice, and I'm excited for them to flesh it out more (I've put the game on hold till they do that, but I've got over a hundred hours /played...).

 

I'm not surprised that people hate on DAI when it's a good game, because there are also people who hate on DAO (and Mass Effect 2, and BG, and BG2, etc and so forth). For my part, I don't know what some people saw in DAO that was missing in DAI yet present in TW3. The games are, to me, so drastically different (story priorities, game design, world design, everything) that I hardly think you can compare them. It's like comparing Fallout 2 to Fallout 3.

 

If there's any confusion, I do think The Witcher 3 is an excellent, great game. I just wish they'd hurry it up with the damn Triss patch.

Come on, going to complain about how I write instead of what?

 

And where am I hypocritical? I didn`t like you going over something that is important to me with your bla bla picture. But I can imagine that after 400 pages, you`ve been trough this discussion a couple of times and don`t want to do it again. 

As I said, I`m new here and in fact it`s my first in any forum. So, my fault for not reading carefully.

 

It`s important to me because I loved BG, ME, Kotor and Origins and opposed to you don`t think Bioware is at its best. I didn`t call you out on not liking Witcher - or didn`t mean to, I simply wanted to emphasise what a trainwreck of storytelling Inquisition is to me. Lifeless settings, unlogical quests, lame characters. I won`t convince you, you won`t convince me, so I don`t have to go over it again. If you care to read, I posted a review under the following headline:  

DAI - Disappointing.Absurd.Idealess - Detailed review and improvement suggestions. If not, we`ll still find a way to coexist.

 

Regarding Whoreson: Of course I can sympathise with a creepy sexist murdering prostitutes for a hobby. I`m his greatest fan. But I singled him out because he is just what you said he is. And as this one-note sadist, he gets me emotionally invested in the game, which every single character from DAI fails to do (except Solas at the end of Trespasser). Could have said Sìle de Tansarville instead. As unimportant as she is, the five minutes she`s in top most interactions between the Inquisitor and the companions. At least to my liking.  

 

[FKA_Servo]

 

Come on, going to complain about how I write instead of what?

 

And where am I hypocritical? I didn`t like you going over something that is important to me with your bla bla picture. But I can imagine that after 400 pages, you`ve been trough this discussion a couple of times and don`t want to do it again. 

As I said, I`m new here and in fact it`s my first in any forum. So, my fault for not reading carefully.

 

I was making a joke about me being the hypocrite.

 

If you're suggesting that the writing, particularly the character writing, is worse in BIoware's current games than it was in BG (which barely even has a story or characters) - well, I won't tell you you're wrong. But I will regard that as completely bonkers nuts.

[DanielR]

You are not the leader of any Inquisition before you reach Skyhold and the people declare it so. You only become the leader because of Redcliffe/Therinfal and events that transpire after. You are an agent of the Inquisition trying to restore order in a world gone mad, did everyone miss that part?

 

I did go back to the Hinterlands after reaching Skyhold and completed some of the "side/fetch quests" then. In the other regions there are numerous side activities the at the time Inquisitor has no business paying attention to. Just my 2 cents

[DanielR]

I was making a joke about me being the hypocrite.

 

Dude, not my mother language - sorry

[FKA_Servo]

Dude, not my mother language - sorry

 

That's ok. We cool.

[KBomb]

One could look around a bit. Found such a family in Crestwood this week; were so thankful for the aid they received. Also found that Cheese shield, but do not require it this time.

What happens in Crestwood has no bearing on the instances I mentioned and I have no freaking clue why you're mentioning the cheese shield, unless you think one can feed it to the hungry refugees for praise or acknowledgement.

[FKA_Servo]

What happens in Crestwood has no bearing on the instances I mentioned and I have no freaking clue why you're mentioning the cheese shield, unless you think one can feed it to the hungry refugees for praise or acknowledgement.

 

I think it was just a non sequitur.

 

That would have been neat, though.

[DanielR]

Yes they attack Kaer Morhen and someone pays the price. Great scene btw, the best in the game. So after the attack Imrelith just leaves Eredin's side to go to the top of a mountain to have an orgie with goat women so you and Ciri can just go there alone and kill him? One of his most trusted generals just leaves his side for that? That part was so stupid. They just discovered how powerful Ciri is, and so they decide to split up so they can be targeted one after one?

 

Yes they go after your loved ones, but most central character was a character introduced in TW3. What if the player feels no connection with her? Ciri has had zero build up in the last two games. I liked her, because Jo Wyatt voice acted her very well, but she is not my favourite character in The Witcher series. There is a difference between loved ones to the player and the character Geralt. But i will give credit to CDRP for their characters, and presentation of said characters. Facial animations and the voice acting is amazing. 

 

Also there is to long a span between the attack by the Wild Hunt in Velen and up until Kaer'Morhen, you see them abit at Skellige from Ciri's side of the story, but still. It can be about 100 hours game time before they show up again, that is insane. I wish they hadn't cut the attack on Novigrad. I never felt any danger, and it is supposed to be there from the start of the game. In DA:I it is a surprise, the attack on Haven leaves you shaken. Loved that. Sadly both games lose momentum after those parts, Haven and Kaer Morhen respectively. 

 

Still don't have 1 - 2 hours just to write, so some here and some there. Most of it is just gibberish, but the game really dissapointed me as a sequel to what was one of my favourite franchises. 

Never thought of it that way. I´d say he was there to uphold the alliance between the Hunt and the Crones. Maybe the Hunt didn´t bother their defenses, because Kaer Morhen was a last second save by Ciri and not an overwhelming defeat. But you have a point. I definately got caught up in the feeling of getting back at Imlerith.

 

As for the characters: Same with Yen. She got mentioned in W2, but was more or less a blank page for me as I haven`t red the books before. So I was absolutely sure to romance Triss, but Yens presentation still made me question that. CDPR managed to get me invested in the "new" characters from the get go.

 

Looking forward to read something here and there then 

[Akrabra]

What happens in Crestwood has no bearing on the instances I mentioned and I have no freaking clue why you're mentioning the cheese shield, unless you think one can feed it to the hungry refugees for praise or acknowledgement.

That would be amazing

[KBomb]

That would be amazing

Maybe, but what else can I stick on Blackwall when he is annoying me?

Blackwall: Wardens, honor blah blah.....

Me: Okay, you know what, Blackwall, put the cheese back on!

It has become like plaideweave, which is another just punishment.

[BioWareMod02]

Hello everyone. Let's keep it civil in here. Thank you.

[KBomb]

He tries to skirt around your post and gets burned. Speaking of skirting around..

Spoiler

I just got trollololled by a damned troll in Skellige. I asked him not to kill any more humans and he said yes and gave me "something". Turned out to be a big rocky 2 fists down my back. I felt so stupid.

Haha I love the trolls in TW3. I am trying to remember the instance you're speaking of, but cannot place it--is he in a cave by the river?

Trollollol is my favorite.

[TmTapani]

From the Site Rules: ◦Accusing Others of Trolling: Calling someone a troll to incite someone or falsely accusing them of trolling can also be a form of trolling.

I'm sorry Elhanan, but that's my opinion of your behaviour on this thread, and on others. You might not agree with me on that but does it really prevent an adult conversation on the subject? I've lurked on these forums for years, and almost all of your posts have left me hurting inside. Not because you've offended me but because I remember the time when I held similar opinions that you seem to do. You're in an abusive relationship with Bioware, just like I was. Let it go friend, just let it go.

[Elhanan]

What happens in Crestwood has no bearing on the instances I mentioned and I have no freaking clue why you're mentioning the cheese shield, unless you think one can feed it to the hungry refugees for praise or acknowledgement.

Still cannot find the exact location in the Hinterlands or a vid, but have started this thread as evidence that it is not head canon:

http://forum.bioware...r-confirmation/

[Xetykins]

Haha I love the trolls in TW3. I am trying to remember the instance you're speaking of, but cannot place it--is he in a cave by the river?
Trollollol is my favorite.

Spoiler

the missing miners quest