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[Elhanan]

So you dismiss the feedback of forum members who have actually played Inquisition on last gen consoles because you played it on PC and have a weird mental block when it comes to the Witcher?
 
Thats a very special kind of logic there Elhnanan, even for you.

That is your logic; not mine. Simply not into reading long threads about platforms that do not pertain to mine.

As far as TW3, it looks beautiful; reason I was interested at all, but due to certain content and omissions, not a game for me. But you are correct about dismissing the feedback of some forum members; reason for an Ignore list.

[panzerwzh]

I've never read the books. Frankly, l don't think they're real.

I like Shani very much, but the Geralt I know has been exclusive with Triss since the first game. I'm happy to turn turn her down, but the problem is that once I do, the whole scene ends up making no sense. It's an astonishingly badly scripted encounter, and I'm surprised it made the cut.

Seriously, an involuntary kiss like that is ridiculous. Hopefully they'll adjust that in the future. They do seem to listen.

Think or think not, TW books are real, and TW series are built upon them.   Triss's appearances in TW1&2 are the pretty much perfect examples for involuntary kiss/sex. So yes they do listen, so Yenna is finally back in TW3!

[Xetykins]

Spoiler

Ok, Shani is one of the most irritating ninjamances I've ever encountered. No say in going for the kiss? Is there any option to just bro it out with her without getting stuck feeling like I'm letting her down hard at the end? It's not my fault that idiot kept throwing myself at her.

You apparently can if you refused to walk with her and just go back to the village straight away. I too fell down that ninjamance well. And I was not happy and cringe the whole time.

[KBomb]

Think or think not, TW books are real, and TW series are built upon them. Triss's appearances in TW1&2 are the pretty much perfect examples for involuntary kiss/sex. So yes they do listen, so Yenna is finally back in TW3!

Though I agree that forcing Triss on Geralt in TW2 was unfair, especially for those who romanced Shani, it doesn't make the force kiss in TW3 okay. And yes, CDPR are good at listening to their fans, which is why the scene with Shani is so puzzling.

As for the books, it's nonsense to believe people have to adhere to the books just because it's the foundation upon which the game was built. Had CDPR intended for people to follow the books, they wouldn't have given us a choice. Yet, they did.

[panzerwzh]

Though I agree that forcing Triss on Geralt in TW2 was unfair, especially for those who romanced Shani, it doesn't make the force kiss in TW3 okay. And yes, CDPR are good at listening to their fans, which is why the scene with Shani is so puzzling.

As for the books, it's nonsense to believe people have to adhere to the books just because it's the foundation upon which the game was built. Had CDPR intended for people to follow the books, they wouldn't have given us a choice. Yet, they did.

The scene is a gift for fans who romanced Shani in TW1 and TW3 is basically a gift for all witcher ans especially who read all the books. So I would say that scene is well deserved compensation  since the horrible bath scene in TW2. A job well done I would say.

[KBomb]

The scene is a gift for fans who romanced Shani in TW1 and TW3 is basically a gift for all witcher ans especially who read all the books. So I would say that scene is well deserved compensation since the horrible bath scene in TW2. A job well done I would say.

Yes, I know the scene was for those who romanced her in TW1, I was not one of those and it was a jarring scene. It felt like it came from left field.

If you're exclusively romancing Yennifer or Triss, it would make no sense for Geralt to make out with Shani. It was weird and out of place- gift or not. I am glad the scene was there for those who opted to wait for and romance her, but it wasn't made clear that if you take a stroll with a friend, she was going to ram her tongue down your throat. Would have been nice to decline, especially since my Geralt had already friend-zoned her.

Also, isn't the bath scene optional? Why on earth would they need to compensate fans for optional content?

[FKA_Servo]

Think or think not, TW books are real, and TW series are built upon them. Triss's appearances in TW1&2 are the pretty much perfect examples for involuntary kiss/sex. So yes they do listen, so Yenna is finally back in TW3!

Sure, but what the books do or don't do is completely irrelevant. They have no bearing on the direction of the games, considering everyone's dead or something in them.

I think it's more important that the scene is utterly at odds with CDPRs approach to romance in every other game - namely, that it's still optional. Yeah, Triss is your only non-fling in TW2 (depending on your perspective), but participation in the scene and the romance is quite voluntary, just as it was in the first game with both her and Shani (and every single other encounter). So honestly, unless it's Opposite Day and you're actually trying to disprove your own point, those are terrible examples.

I'll happily agree that the scene leading up to Shani's romance is very nice, if you're a Geralt who has chosen to romance in the past and the present, or one who has no major issues with infidelity. If you're not any of those those things, it's mystifying and frustrating.

[FKA_Servo]

Also, isn't the bath scene optional? Why on earth would they need to compensate fans for optional content?

It is completely optional, just like every other romance in the entire series as things stand.

[FKA_Servo]

Well, actually, thinking on it, Panzer had a point with regard to the prologue of TW2. But that's the only other involuntary encounter that I can think of. Continuing the romance is certainly voluntary.

[nici2412]

Sure, but what the books do or don't do is completely irrelevant. They they have no bearing on the direction of the games, considering everyone's dead or something in them.

 

 

The games are a direct continuation of the books. The first Witcher 2 flashback  shows the ending of the books, while the second flashback takes place right after the ending of the last book and the whole game franchise continues from there on: Witcher 2 flashbacks-> Witcher 1->Witcher 2-> Witcher 3

Everything that happened in the books, also exists in the games.

[nici2412]

It is completely optional, just like every other romance in the entire series as things stand.

Not really true. Geralt laying in bed with Triss at the beginning of Witcher 2 is not optional.

Edit: Nevermind, just saw your second comment.

[FKA_Servo]

The games are a direct continuation of the books. The first Witcher 2 flashback shows the ending of the books, while the second flashback takes place right after the books ending and the whole game franchise continues from there on: Witcher 2 flashbacks-> Witcher 1->Witcher 2-> Witcher 3
Everything that happened in the books, also exists in the games.

Fine, the books aren't irrelevant, they're just unnecessary. What you're describing is still not a justification for railroading the player into a romance they may not want to participate in, particularly when it's at odds with their approach throughout the rest of the series, bar one other frustrating example.

[nici2412]

Fine, the books aren't irrelevant, they're just unnecessary. What you're describing is still not a justification for railroading the player into a romance they may not want to participate in, particularly when it's at odds with their approach throughout the rest of the series, bar one other frustrating example.

Actually imo it is. Especially because you are not playing yourself. You are playing Geralt of Rivia . You are playing a character who has a long and deep history with the world and most of the important characters you encounter. You have only control over him to a certain degree, that'S also why you can't do anything that would be completely ooc for books Geralt.

That's why I'm absolutely fine that Geralt decided to start a romance with Triss in the 6 months between Witcher 1 and 2 and also that Geralt and Triss decided to separate between Witcher 2 and 3.I lost control over Geralt during this months and just like in the books, he is his own character during this time and makes his own choices.  Other people might not like it and see it as a neglection of their choices but imo they misinterpret the nature of the Witcher franchise.  This is no Dragon Age in which you are supposed to roleplay yourself or whoever you like to roleplay. 

[FKA_Servo]

Actually imo it is. Especially because you are not playing yourself. You are playing Geralt of Rivia . You are playing a character who has a long and deep history with the world and most of the important characters you encounter. You have only control over him to a certain degree, that'S also why you can't do anything that would be completely ooc for books Geralt.
That's why I'm absolutely fine that Geralt decided to start a romance with Triss in the 6 months between Witcher 1 and 2 and also that Geralt and Triss decided to separate between Witcher 2 and 3.I lost control over Geralt during this months and just like in the books, he is his own character during this time and makes his own choices. Other people might not like it and see it as a neglection of their choices but imo they misinterpret the nature of the Witcher franchise. This is no Dragon Age in which you are supposed to roleplay yourself or whoever you like to roleplay.

It sounds like you're defending bugs as "features" here. You been taking Elhanan lessons?

If Geralt were as static as you're implying, I still wouldn't be playing this series. There's plenty of wiggle room in the Geralt of Rivia persona, and yes, CDPR seems to have done a mostly great job of respecting our choices, at least with regard to romances. Locking us into a kiss and flirty dialogue is a drastic departure from that.

[nici2412]

It sounds like you're defending bugs as "features" here. You been taking Elhanan lessons?

If Geralt were as static as you're implying, I still wouldn't be playing this series. There's plenty of wiggle room in the Geralt of Rivia persona, and yes, CDPR seems to have done a mostly great job of respecting our choices, at least with regard to romances. Locking us into a kiss and flirty dialogue is a drastic departure from that.

I don't think have taken any lessons from him, considering I have him on ignore and haven't read any of his posts in the last 100-200 pages.

The point is that CDP had always taken away control from the player and "forced" Geralt to act in a specific way whenever it fitted the story in their opinion.

They did it over and over again, especially in regards to the romances

You choose Shani in Witcher 1- > Geralt lies in bed with Triss in Witcher 2

You romance Triss in Witcher 2 -> Geralt part's with Triss after Witcher 2

You meet Yennefer for the first time in Vizima-> She kisses Geralt, no matter what

You meet Yennefer in Skelllige -> Geralt flirts with her, no matter if you are in a relationship with Triss or not.

[FKA_Servo]

I don't think have taken any lessons from him, considering I have him on ignore and haven't read any of his posts in the last 100-200 pages.
The point is that CDP had always taken away control from the player and "forced" Geralt to act in a specific way whenever it fitted the story in their opinion.
They did it over and over again, especially in regards to the romances
You choose Shani in Witcher 1- > Geralt lies in bed with Triss in Witcher 2
You romance Triss in Witcher 2 -> Geralt part's with Triss after Witcher 2
You meet Yennefer for the first time in Vizima-> She kisses Geralt, no matter what
You meet Yennefer in Skelllige -> Geralt flirts with her, no matter if you are in a relationship with Triss or not.

I will grant and accept that we don't have control over him in between games. The kiss with Yennefer happens before you embark on a romance with anyone. And I'll cede the Skellige flirt, now that you've reminded me of it, but compared to this, though, it was so mild that I didn't even remember it, though it was irritating at the time.

After we've made our decision - a rather final decision, seeing as this is the last chapter and I got a happily ever after in Kovir slide - I maintain that the game does respect it. Yen backs off, I can diplomatically not pursue other people, and I'm happy and monogamous. This just straight yanks that out from under me. It makes no sense, and was uncharacteristic of both Geralt and CDPR. Apparently at least a couple of the witcher's most passionate proponents in this thread agree.

[Elhanan]

Sounds as if they should have simply included the books as part of the DLC. Will likely best any cut-scene or film anyway, as long as the role play aspect is being further removed from the game.

Prefer the option to craft the PC; choosing gender, race, and utilizing the CC as desired.

[Xetykins]

I will grant and accept that we don't have control over him in between games. The kiss with Yennefer happens before you embark on a romance with anyone. And I'll cede the Skellige flirt, now that you've reminded me of it, but compared to this, though, it was so mild that I didn't even remember it, though it was irritating at the time.
After we've made our decision - a rather final decision, seeing as this is the last chapter and I got a happily ever after in Kovir slide - I maintain that the game does respect it. Yen backs off, I can diplomatically not pursue other people, and I'm happy and monogamous. This just straight yanks that out from under me. It makes no sense, and was uncharacteristic of both Geralt and CDPR. Apparently at least a couple of the witcher's most passionate proponents in this thread agree.

Spoiler

a few steps you can avoid the kiss. 1. After vlodimir goes back, do not stay. O'Dimm is an arse trying to make you do otherwise, and yes it feels contrived. 2. Do not give her the flowers you find somewhere 3. Go back to town instead of the moonlit walk.

I treated the whole Shani thing as the ME companion quest. Only this time no one dies. So no you are certainly not locked into that kiss.

[TmTapani]

Haven't played the expansion myself but which of them takes the initiative with the kiss, Shani or Geralt? If it is Shani then I really see no fault in that, she acts like a person with feelings of her own. The scene itself and the way it is handled might be a failure (can't judge that for myself) but the concept of it is not. I assume you can still reject her after the kiss?

 

Ever played any of the Telltale games? I'd recommend Tales from the Borderlands, it's absolutely fantastic. The reason why I mention them however is that they rely heavily on the illusion of choice. You have control over the character(s) you play as and you need to make several difficult and game changing decisions but in reality you have barely any control at all. The things that need to happen will happen and the only stuff that varies a bit from player to player, making their experiences "unique", are the ways you get to them and the small cosmetic variables.

 

Geralt isn't a CC character but he isn't really a book character either, not anymore. He sits in a weird spot between cc and predefined and that's partly because CDPR has given us more freedom with him than predefined characters usually have. You can make him your own to some extent but he never really belongs to you. Not like a Bioware character would for example. Even the fact that you can end up with Triss in the end is a huge thing as far as the character goes. And I do mean HUGE. You can't really underestimate the importance of it. The reason why it has book/Yen fans up in arms is because it simply shouldn't exist. But it does. And you can make it happen.

 

Despite the freedom you are given with Geralt you are still somewhat limited with it. He has an identity beyond the one you give him. That as well makes him weird as a character. You might, for example, want to make him monogamous and faithful to someone and when something contrary to that happens the experience will feel a bit jarring. In those situations the identity of the character clashes with your wants and expectations. And maybe with your RL feelings and opinions on certain matters that you want him to reflect. You treat him as an extension of yourself. That's something you can't really do with a predefined character but the freedomness (that a word?) gives you the illusion that you can.

 

This half freedom, half illusion of freedom - aspect might actually be one of the reasons why some people who are generally not fond of predefined characters like him.

[straykat]

But you are correct about dismissing the feedback of some forum members; reason for an Ignore list.

 

You just do this because of the platforms they're on?

 

I'd understand if they were racists or screamed bloody murder.

[FKA_Servo]

Spoiler

a few steps you can avoid the kiss. 1. After vlodimir goes back, do not stay. O'Dimm is an arse trying to make you do otherwise, and yes it feels contrived. 2. Do not give her the flowers you find somewhere 3. Go back to town instead of the moonlit walk.

I treated the whole Shani thing as the ME companion quest. Only this time no one dies. So no you are certainly not locked into that kiss.

Yeah, I'm certainly locked into redoing most of Dead Mans Party in any case. If that's how I end up letting things play out.

It's a shame because not only is there some genuinely nice stuff in the conversation leading up to that whole deal, it really is a nice interaction if you actually do intend to pursue the romance. But it makes no sense that you can't catch up with her platonically, or at least let her down softly. Especially since until now, I've felt that I've been quite free to progress the story and dictate the terms of my relationships as I see fit.

Spoiler

At least when I dump her, I also ask her to look into something regarding Everec. If I skip the whole thing, I'm guessing I don't do that. Does it come back to bite me?

Haven't played the expansion myself but which of them takes the initiative with the kiss, Shani or Geralt? If it is Shani then I really see no fault in that, she acts like a person with feelings of her own. The scene itself and the way it is handled might be a failure (can't judge that for myself) but the concept of it is not. I assume you can still reject her after the kiss?

Ever played any of the Telltale games? I'd recommend Tales from the Borderlands, it's absolutely fantastic. The reason why I mention them however is that they rely heavily on the illusion of choice. You have control over the character(s) you play as and you need to make several difficult and game changing decisions but in reality you have barely any control at all. The things that need to happen will happen and the only stuff that varies a bit from player to player, making their experiences "unique", are the ways you get to them and the small cosmetic variables.

Geralt isn't a CC character but he isn't really a book character either, not anymore. He sits in a weird spot between cc and predefined and that's partly because CDPR has given us more freedom with him than predefined characters usually have. You can make him your own to some extent but he never really belongs to you. Not like a Bioware character would for example. Even the fact that you can end up with Triss in the end is a huge thing as far as the character goes. And I do mean HUGE. You can't really underestimate the importance of it. The reason why it has book/Yen fans up in arms is because it simply shouldn't exist. But it does. And you can make it happen.

Despite the freedom you are given with Geralt you are still somewhat limited with it. He has an identity beyond the one you give him. That as well makes him weird as a character. You might, for example, want to make him monogamous and faithful to someone and when something contrary to that happens the experience will feel a bit jarring. In those situations the identity of the character clashes with your wants and expectations. And maybe with your RL feelings and opinions on certain matters that you want him to reflect. You treat him as an extension of yourself. That's something you can't really do with a predefined character but the freedomness (that a word?) gives you the illusion that you can.

This half freedom, half illusion of freedom - aspect might actually be one of the reasons why some people who are generally not fond of predefined characters like him.

Edit, because I'm finally sitting in front of a PC.

It's Geralt who makes the move, not Shani - and with no prompting from the player. Just happens. I don't mind at all if Shani pursues me, or makes the first move, provided I have the option to sympathetically (or bluntly - options are good, after all, but I do like Shani. Just not like that) let her down.You can still reject her after the kiss, but doing so renders the preceding 5 minutes of conversation nonsensical and makes Geralt seem bipolar. Really not a well thought out scene.

As far as the rest - I'm not roleplaying Geralt in any elaborate sense (certainly not as I might in other games), but I am trying to direct him - and the story - in a way that's appealing to me. I don't completely disagree with what you - or Panzer, or Nici - are saying about his character, but I also don't think it's at all at odds with what I'm trying to do either. And the fact is, at least within each game, I've felt that I had a great deal of control over his actions and reactions, including who to pursue romantically, at least in that self-contained narrative. This has manifested itself especially well in TW3 (which, as I think I've mentioned, is the game that really got Geralt's character to click with me). The situation with Shani comes across as a dramatic departure from form in light of that.

And also, sorry for spoilers. I started it out right, but then I broke my cardinal rule.

[straykat]

@Straykat,

It's Geralt who moves in, not Shani.

 

Not sure what you mean. You sure you meant to reply to me?

[FKA_Servo]

Nope, posting on my phone with intermittent service. I meant to respond to TMTapani but I misread. Sorry about that.

[KBomb]

I still believe it was an oversight on CDPR's part. The scene was so awkward and sneaks up on you. I get that you can skip it, but I certainly didn't know it, or would have done. Since I had already friend-zoned her at every opportunity, I just assumed the stroll was a nice way to catch up between old friends and it ended up being a case of Shani taking her medic skills too seriously by examining my tonsils. Thank goodness I could not hear the ensuing moans.

I still loved the dlc and it's all good. No harm done, I just wish there had been an option to back that girl up off me.

[FKA_Servo]

I still loved the dlc and it's all good. No harm done, I just wish there had been an option to back that girl up off me.

Spoiler

While I was playing it, I was wondering how it might play out, and I was sort of expecting it to happen as Vloderalt. He was an idiot, but Shani seemed to think he was at least a little bit charming, so I thought she might start to dig him over the course of the mission. Seemed like that would be a way to sidestep any infidelity so to speak. I wouldn't necessarily be on board with it, but it would have been less irritating than the current implementation, if we absolutely must get locked into such a thing.

Of course, that would have prevented the heartfelt reunion between her and real Geralt that people would want.

I dunno. It just seems like it would have been infinitely better to set up an alternate path for that whole scene when we toast to friendship as opposed to our magnificent selves. Don't know what they were thinking.