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#12276
Wolven_Soul

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Gonna have to check that out.

I actually do like a lot of Jim Sterling's stuff quite a bit, and I was reminded of that when you mentioned him the other day. I just lost track of him when he stopped writing for The Escapist.

Truth be told, I also have very little patience for YouTube content, so that may have contributed to it. Seems like every damn thing is a YouTube video from walkthroughs to reviews to friggin' talent guides, and I hate it, because I'd rather read it. The written word is a dying art.

 

Well, then your are in luck, because he still does written reviews.  He went independent after leavin The Escapist.  You will find them at thejimquisition.com.  I like reading his reviews and I like watching his Jimquisition videos.  He is such an irreverent fellow.

 

The video I mentioned was in reference to the review he did for Call of Duty: Black Ops 2.  He gave it a really good score and apparently almost everyone was ticked off at him for it.  



#12277
Wolven_Soul

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I don't know, I've lost a lot of respect for Jim's reviews during this past year. I think part of the reason people have issues when he likes / dislikes games is that he seems to arbitrarily hold them up to different standards. You can't be considered reliable if you do that, and that's not a good thing when you're supposed to be a professional reviewer. If a game is, say,  criticized heavily for being repetitive (Mad Max for example), then other games that are also repetitive (MGSV) should be criticized for it as well even if the reviewer likes them more. That's where the professionalism comes in. It's no wonder that some people would get upset if he bashes a game that they like for something and then praises another one that has the same flaws without giving a reason why. Or even mentioning that fact (that it has the same flaws). His reviews have given me too many of those wtf moments this year. I'm not saying that the issue mentioned isn't real, you can see it on almost every review site, but in Jim's case I do think it's partly self - inflicted.

 

I can kind of agree with you here.  I still respect the crap out of Jim for how outspoken he is about the crap that the game industry tries to pull, but some of his reviews do make me scratch my head a bit.  For instance, he gave Fallout 4 a 9.5.  Now, FO4 is no doubt a great game, but no game that is as buggy as that one is on release should get a 9 for that reason alone.  

 

If one developer that releases a super buggy game doesn't get a pass, then no developer gets a pass, even if it is Bethesda.  



#12278
KBomb

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Some people do get a little foolish when you like a game they hate or dislike. I have seen it loads of times, examples enough on this forum alone.

I don't think it's entirely accurate to say Bethesda gets a free pass on their issues and I say this because I have never been to a gaming forum where dozens of people haven't complained about them in some form. Whether it is deserved or not is up to that individual, but it is common. Mention Bethesda and you'll most likely get a split on likes/dislikes. Even people who like the game complain about bugs and vanilla play.

I don't think the majority keep buying Bethesda games because it's Bethesda, people continue buying those games because they find enjoyment in them and you're going to be more forgiving of the flaws, if in spite of them you're still having a blast.
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#12279
FKA_Servo

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I can kind of agree with you here.  I still respect the crap out of Jim for how outspoken he is about the crap that the game industry tries to pull, but some of his reviews do make me scratch my head a bit.  For instance, he gave Fallout 4 a 9.5.  Now, FO4 is no doubt a great game, but no game that is as buggy as that one is on release should get a 9 for that reason alone.  

 

If one developer that releases a super buggy game doesn't get a pass, then no developer gets a pass, even if it is Bethesda.  

 

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Skyrim is a buggy mess, but 500 hours later (half of that mod management) it still gets a 12/10 in my book.



#12280
Wolven_Soul

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In that case he has no business pulling out a lot of random names from metacritic who gave  FO4 0 and trying to name and shame them in his blog, because they did not like the game he likes ( he gave FO4 top points). He is no better than  those guys.

 

Well, it isn't just for games that he likes, he did it for COD: MW3 as well, and he gave that a low score.  But your right, it does seem like a petty thing to be doing regardless, and I can't say that I like the fact that he does it, even if I do respect him for other things that he does.



#12281
Wolven_Soul

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Some people do get a little foolish when you like a game they hate or dislike. I have seen it loads of times, examples enough on this forum alone.

I don't think it's entirely accurate to say Bethesda gets a free pass on their issues and I say this because I have never been to a gaming forum where dozens of people haven't complained about them in some form. Whether it is deserved or not is up to that individual, but it is common. Mention Bethesda and you'll most likely get a split on likes/dislikes. Even people who like the game complain about bugs and vanilla play.

I don't think the majority keep buying Bethesda games because it's Bethesda, people continue buying those games because they find enjoyment in them and you're going to be more forgiving of the flaws, if in spite of them you're still having a blast.

 

Oh I wasn't trying to say that Bethesda is given a free pass by the gaming community in general, just in this case it was given one by Jim Sterling himself it seems.  He mentions it in his review, but he still gives it a really high score.  And at the same time I remember him really taking Ubisoft to task for how glitchy Assassin's Creed: Unity was.  I think it was Unity.  

 

Of course, this would all be mitigated again if reviewers would just start to move away from giving games a score in their review.  Then he could just talk about how much he enjoyed the game while mentioning it's flaws and just let people decide for themselves if they wanna give it a shot.



#12282
Wolven_Soul

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The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Skyrim is a buggy mess, but 500 hours later (half of that mod management) it still gets a 12/10 in my book.

 

True, but when you write a review on the base version of the game on release, I think you need to take into account if the game is really glitchy if your gonna give it a score.  Granted, all games have glitches and bugs of course, but it's safe to say that Bethesda's games are generally some of the worst at this.  



#12283
KBomb

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Oh I wasn't trying to say that Bethesda is given a free pass by the gaming community in general, just in this case it was given one by Jim Sterling himself it seems. He mentions it in his review, but he still gives it a really high score. And at the same time I remember him really taking Ubisoft to task for how glitchy Assassin's Creed: Unity was. I think it was Unity.

Of course, this would all be mitigated again if reviewers would just start to move away from giving games a score in their review. Then he could just talk about how much he enjoyed the game while mentioning it's flaws and just let people decide for themselves if they wanna give it a shot.


Oh, I wasn't directing that post to anyone in particular. It was just a general mention. I get what you're saying.
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#12284
Akrabra

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Oh I wasn't trying to say that Bethesda is given a free pass by the gaming community in general, just in this case it was given one by Jim Sterling himself it seems.  He mentions it in his review, but he still gives it a really high score.  And at the same time I remember him really taking Ubisoft to task for how glitchy Assassin's Creed: Unity was.  I think it was Unity.  

 

Of course, this would all be mitigated again if reviewers would just start to move away from giving games a score in their review.  Then he could just talk about how much he enjoyed the game while mentioning it's flaws and just let people decide for themselves if they wanna give it a shot.

Well Unity didn't run on several systems and required 7 gigabyte patches and still wasn't fixed. After 90 hours with Fallout 4 i had one crash to desktop and a few funny glitches. I would say it is someones right to rate a game poorly if it still doesnt run to this day. Still no one should get a pass on game breaking bugs, but glitches in an open world is to be expected. I had several in TW3 and none of them ruined the experience for me, and same can be said for Fallout 4. Does CDRP get a free pass? Just curious. 



#12285
FKA_Servo

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I don't know, I've lost a lot of respect for Jim's reviews during this past year. I think part of the reason people have issues when he likes / dislikes games is that he seems to arbitrarily hold them up to different standards. You can't be considered reliable if you do that, and that's not a good thing when you're supposed to be a professional reviewer. If a game is, say,  criticized heavily for being repetitive (Mad Max for example), then other games that are also repetitive (MGSV) should be criticized for it as well even if the reviewer likes them more. That's where the professionalism comes in. It's no wonder that some people would get upset if he bashes a game that they like for something and then praises another one that has the same flaws without giving a reason why. Or even mentioning that fact (that it has the same flaws). His reviews have given me too many of those wtf moments this year. I'm not saying that the issue mentioned isn't real, you can see it on almost every review site, but in Jim's case I do think it's partly self - inflicted.

 

I would say that those people either misunderstand what critics do or confer much greater importance on critics than they actually merit. Possibly both. Probably both, actually.

 

At the end of the day, professional reviewers are professional opinion havers. Hopefully (likely), they'll offer an informed opinion simply by virtue of the fact that they interact with so much different material, but it's still an opinion, inevitably colored by their personal predilections, personal biases, personal politics, whathaveyou, most of which is arbitrary - you really can't review stuff like art, or literature, or film, or games objectively. Beyond certain disclosures which, granted, ought to be made (review copies and so forth) that's fine. A good reviewer probably isn't going to be unbiased, but they are going to be engaging and insightful to an audience whose tastes and preferences will likely already align with their own. That's how that particular sort of criticism works.

 

Still just an opinion, and everyone's quite capable of forming those. Personally, to speak to your specific examples - while I haven't played either Mad Max or MGS5, I can envision reasons (arbitrary, for sure) why I'd put up with certain annoyances in one over the other (for example, I'd rather run around post-apocalyptic Australia in a weathered hotrod than creep around Afghanistan in my tighty blueys on a horse, and I find Mad Max's lore and world building fun and engaging, whereas I find MGS's lore and world building inscrutable and idiotic). Like Jim Sterling, and every other reviewer, I'm a human, and my biases color my opinions.

 

This is why, for example, I find the reaction that Polygon review got to be so mystifying and absurd. A single reviewer, out of thousands, informed by his experience, made a sociological criticism in an otherwise positive review that you (not you you, general you) disagreed with, and this is any sort of deal, let alone a big deal? It's something that literally doesn't matter. Critics you disagree with can be freely disregarded - they do not measurably affect anything apart from informing people who already agree with them.

 

Also why I feel that a certain "movement" is founded primarily on something else entirely, but that's a different argument. And this is all, of course, just one man's opinion.



#12286
Wolven_Soul

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Well Unity didn't run on several systems and required 7 gigabyte patches and still wasn't fixed. After 90 hours with Fallout 4 i had one crash to desktop and a few funny glitches. I would say it is someones right to rate a game poorly if it still doesnt run to this day. Still no one should get a pass on game breaking bugs, but glitches in an open world is to be expected. I had several in TW3 and none of them ruined the experience for me, and same can be said for Fallout 4. Does CDRP get a free pass? Just curious. 

 

No, not even they do.  I had issues with TW3 when I first started to play it that really irked me at the time.  



#12287
Akrabra

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No, not even they do.  I had issues with TW3 when I first started to play it that really irked me at the time.  

I had the minor glitch and a few crashes. Like Roach stuck in the a mountain and won't get out. Like we talked about before, its all about tolerance of bugs/glitches. I don't mind them that much. Aslong as they don't break the game and makes it unplayable. 



#12288
ashwind

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I would say that those people either misunderstand what critics do or confer much greater importance on critics than they actually merit. Possibly both. Probably both, actually.

 

At the end of the day, professional reviewers are professional opinion havers. Hopefully (likely), they'll offer an informed opinion simply by virtue of the fact that they interact with so much different material, but it's still an opinion, inevitably colored by their personal predilections, personal biases, personal politics, whathaveyou, most of which is arbitrary - you really can't review stuff like art, or literature, or film, or games objectively. Beyond certain disclosures which, granted, ought to be made (review copies and so forth) that's fine. A good reviewer probably isn't going to be unbiased, but they are going to be engaging and insightful to an audience whose tastes and preferences will likely already align with their own. That's how that particular sort of criticism works.

 

 

Exactly, when I pick my reviewers, they must like the games I like and dislike the games I dislike. Why? Because if I am to buy a game base on his/her review, I best make sure that I will like what he likes.

 

As for Fallout 4, I havent come across a review that doesnt say that it is very addictive and fun to play. Even reviewers who didnt give it a 8/10, 9/10 or 10/10 acknowledge this fact. The reason why it didnt get top scores is because we feel that Bethesda didnt do anything new that we havent seen or experience before in their previous games. We have already rewarded those games with 9s and 10s.

 

Common, you cant expect people to give you the same high scores for doing the same thing over and over again right?



#12289
Akrabra

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I was expecting a polished Fallout 3, and that is what i got. I don't need them to reinvent the wheel everytime they release a new game. Just play to your strengths and make them better. If only other Bioware had embraced this we would have three masterpieces in the Dragon Age series. 


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#12290
TmTapani

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Reviews are opinions, yes, but that's not always what ticks people off. Take for example said Jim Sterling's reviews of TW3 and FO4. I have issues with those, among others.

 

   He gave Witcher a score of 8.5, saying that performance issues and some odd design choices keep it from being a perfect game. I'm fine with that while I might disagree with it, it's his opinion of the game.

   He also gave Fallout a score of 9.5 and gives the game a lot of praise. I'm fine with that as well, he just likes the game more. Different strokes and all that.

 

So why am I a bit salty about those reviews? Individually they're fine, but it's when you compare them with each other that the issues start to show.

 

In short: the same rules don't apply to both games. Witcher gets criticized for something and Fallout gets a free pass from the same issues. He barely even acknowledges their presence in the product and just waves them aside as irrelevant. How is that professional? And that's what I want when I read reviews, professionalism. If I wanted just an opinion on something I'd ask a random bypasser.

 

That Angry Joe review that was previously linked? Far, far better in comparison to a consumer looking for information about a product they consider buying.


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#12291
FKA_Servo

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So why am I a bit salty about those reviews? Individually they're fine, but it's when you compare them with each other that the issues start to show.

 

In short: the same rules don't apply to both games. Witcher gets criticized for something and Fallout gets a free pass from the same issues. He barely even acknowledges their presence in the product and just waves them aside as irrelevant. How is that professional? And that's what I want when I read reviews, professionalism. If I wanted just an opinion on something I'd ask a random bypasser.

 

Without having read either review (which I will do, now that I know where to find them), I still don't really think it's a big deal if certain things that don't work are eclipsed by what does work, even to the point where they don't even register. ME1's exploration and sidequests are probably tedious and annoying as all hell, but it didn't even occur to me that they were until my third playthrough because everything else was so enthralling. But then, his opinion carries the same weight as any random passerby, in my estimation. Possibly it's just more eloquently expressed. And yeah, he's a professional, but in a field that I just don't think is quantifiable, at all.



#12292
ashwind

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I was expecting a polished Fallout 3, and that is what i got. I don't need them to reinvent the wheel everytime they release a new game. Just play to your strengths and make them better. If only other Bioware had embraced this we would have three masterpieces in the Dragon Age series. 

 

I am sure there are reviewers who share your feelings and simply wanted a polish version of FO3... 

 

Kinda like Call of Duty. Why innovate, just keep making the same thing over and over because once a master piece, always a master piece.  :rolleyes:

 

Edit:

Tis just like Michael Bay and his flashy explosions. Keep doing the same thing over and over. Win big in the box office and have lots of fans. Dont expect however viewers and critics to write praises about your product.



#12293
wicked cool

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Would a prequel work for witcher 4? Pre gerault

Is there anything from dai/skyrim you wish w3 did

Any chance gwent will made into a real life game

#12294
FKA_Servo

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Would a prequel work for witcher 4? Pre gerault

 

With a custom protagonist, sure.

 

is there anything from dai/skyrim you wish w3 did

 

A custom protagonist would always be nice, as above, but I've made my peace with that. Geralt as a character is great in TW3, and I enjoy playing him. Otherwise, not really.
 

Any chance gwent will made into a real life game

 

Seeing as they've released a bunch of cards with the physical HoS release, and the rules are clearly documented in the game, I don't see why it couldn't.



#12295
Akrabra

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I am sure there are reviewers who share your feelings and simply wanted a polish version of FO3... 

 

Kinda like Call of Duty. Why innovate, just keep making the same thing over and over because once a master piece, always a master piece.  :rolleyes:

 

Edit:

Tis just like Michael Bay and his flashy explosions. Keep doing the same thing over and over. Win big in the box office and have lots of fans. Dont expect however viewers and critics to write praises about your product.

Here is the difference though. Michael Bay hes yet to make a masterpiece. Bioware and Bethesda has. 


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#12296
Elhanan

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Here is the difference though. Michael Bay hes yet to make a masterpiece. Bioware and Bethesda has.


RE: MB - The Last Ship is close, IMO.

As far as games, prefer not to include change for the sake of change, and keep what works. However, I also like some of the new mechanics and systems. Skyrim is my first and only Bethesda game, I believe, and I have little desire to play the earlier renditions except for what is needed to play SkyWind. And while I prefer DAO, there are also things I prefer seen in the sequels.

For myself, it is not an all or nothing idea.

#12297
wicked cool

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Is skywind ever really going to happen

If there was a mod for w3 what would you want

#12298
Elhanan

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Is skywind ever really going to happen

If there was a mod for w3 what would you want


Seems so, but it is taking a lot longer than I expected. Here is a link to the most recent update of which I am aware:

https://tesrenewal.c...r-2015#comments

#12299
SnakeCode

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I don't put any credence in reviews anymore. The only opinion anyone needs on any particular game is their own. That being said, the day that Polygon and Kotaku die will be a positive one for gaming journalism, and the gaming industry as a whole.

 

The problem Isn't that they (selectively) review games through a social justice lense, it's that they're anything but ethical, and they know it. Writers such as Ben Kuchera (of Polygon) and Jason Schreier (Kotaku) have admitted as such, and gone as far as saying that's not something they should strive for.

 

Then there's the blatant nepotism and cronyism. Giving overwhelmingly positive reviews to games made by their friends. No matter how terrible they are, or how "problematic" they would be had anyone but their buddies made them. Look at Kotaku's reviews of 'Revolution 60' (and it's comments section especially,) 'Sunset' and 'Depression Quest.' Patricia Hernandez's articles about her friend Anna Anthropy's games. Nepotism is rife within their hiring practices as well.

 

That's not even mentioning their pseudo articles that resemble personal blogs, barely related to gaming, if at all. There's countless Patricia Hernandez articles. Such as "How I Became The Victim of Child Molestation" wherein she claimes a one year old raped her, as well as "Why Was There No Women In The Opening Scene Of 'Saving Private Brian'?" Even the gaming related ones are ridiculous, like "Should Killing Female Gamers In online Games Be Considered Rape?" It's all clickbait rubbish, and the fact that people like her even have a job at a major gaming site should be setting off alarm bells in people's heads.

 

Luckily devs are starting to see the big picture, Marcus 'Notch' Persson, Mark Kern etc, and Kotaku have been blacklisted by major devs like Bethesda and Ubisoft. They wrote a laughable self-pitying article about it recently.

 

 

As for "a certain movement" people can believe what they want to believe, but all of the information is archived for those that care to look for it, and it's heavily in favour of the consumer revolt's arguments, not the "journalists" and "pop culture critics."


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#12300
Xetykins

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Here is the difference though. Michael Bay hes yet to make a masterpiece. Bioware and Bethesda has. 

Yeah. Masterpiece by who's standard? It's like me  saying DAO is a masterpiece while some people here would say it's DA2 or DAI. While others think that none of them are. Same as half of the reviewers declared TW3 is a masterpiece, half again think it is not.  So really, who can say Michael Bay's work are not masterpieces to some.