15859 réponses à ce sujet

[Akrabra]

 Eh,? I just topped playing BG 1 a few minutes ago to take a small break. Last played Fallout 1 the day before FO4 launched to deal with the hype. The games have aged extremely well considering how old they are. Ten years from now they will still be the same. The Baldur's Gate series (with Icewind Dale) and PS:T are still my favorite Bioware games. Icewind Dale 2 however has aged horribly in comparison but then again it was pretty horrible already when it launched.

Played Fallout 1 a few months ago, and its ok. Its not a great game by any means, not because its dated, but the story is not really that good. Find the Water Chip, deal with the master. Its very straightfoward and not that entertaining. Actually Fallout 3 reminds me the most of the original Fallout, even though it had some plot moments from 2 aswell. 

 

The original BG is quite bad, but Baldurs Gate II is still one of my favourite games to this date, and i don't mean that crappy Enhanced Edition, the real deal. I think they've aged well enough, but alot of new mechanics has been put into use the last 15 years which these games could have had great benefit from in its time. Also i don't really like Faerun as a fantasy setting, its to over the top for me. I am glad that Bioware went out of their way to create own settings with Dragon Age and Mass Effect. 

[FKA_Servo]

BG1 barely even has a story or characters, and vancian magic is so annoying that it just makes me want to hurt people. Granted, I've somehow managed to never play BG2 (at that point, I had tumbled down a deep, dark, Diablo 2 shaped hole, and I wouldn't emerge for a couple of years, at which time I just hopped on the KoTOR train), but BG1 just doesn't hold up well anymore. DAO, for instance, is an unambiguous improvement on... nearly everything.

[Dread-Reaper]

What a coincidence, all those D&D games and TW3 are on sale over at GOG.

[panzerwzh]

 Eh? I just topped playing BG 1 a few minutes ago to take a small break. Last played Fallout 1 the day before FO4 launched to deal with the hype. The games have aged extremely well considering how old they are. Ten years from now they will still be the same, and the Baldur's Gate series (with Icewind Dale) and PS:T are still my favorite Bioware games. Icewind Dale 2 however has aged horribly in comparison but then again it was pretty horrible already when it launched.

Try Morrowind, you won't regret it.

[TmTapani]

What does story, or the lack of it, have to do with how well a game has aged? Mechanics, art, that type of things. You might personally dislike vancian casting for example but the version of 2nd edition they used was solid and so were the gameplay mechanics. The art and style used in the games are what have saved them graphically. Very dated but still passable and playable and they will stay that way forever. Time however has not been as kind to NWN and NWN 2 with their 3d art, in comparison. 3d tends to age horribly because of constant technological advances.

[FKA_Servo]

What does story, or the lack of it, have to do with how well a game has aged? Mechanics, art, that type of things. You might personally dislike vancian casting for example but the version of 2nd edition they used was solid and so were the gameplay mechanics. The art and style used in the games are what have saved them graphically. Very dated but still passable and playable and they will stay that way forever. Time however has not been as kind to NWN and NWN 2 with their 3d art, in comparison. 3d tends to age horribly because of constant technological advances.

 

It was mechanically solid, yes. I actually mentioned that but I deleted and rewrote the sentence and that sentiment poofed, I guess. But you're right of course, if you're into that edition's rules, it's fine. I actually don't have any problem with vancian casting when I'm playing a tabletop game, but it's just infuriating to me in a CRPG because I feel it's too slow and limiting.

 

As for art style - I don't really think any of those games have aged particularly well, because they look the same as a thousand different CRPGs that came out around the same time, and the art really isn't anything special or distinct. Just adequate, seen one, seen em all. Conversely, Grim Fandango, a 3D game that came out the same year BG1 did, is as lovely today as the day it was released.

[Ryzaki]

BG1 barely even has a story or characters, and vancian magic is so annoying that it just makes me want to hurt people. Granted, I've somehow managed to never play BG2 (at that point, I had tumbled down a deep, dark, Diablo 2 shaped hole, and I wouldn't emerge for a couple of years, at which time I just hopped on the KoTOR train), but BG1 just doesn't hold up well anymore. DAO, for instance, is an unambiguous improvement on... nearly everything.

 

(you just refers to the Bhaalspawn not you you).

 

I found BG1 was just...okay? It wasn't some omg best game ever experience. Like the best parts involved your douchy half brother and even some of those parts were just "dude what?" *Like his psycho girlfriend and like you acknowledge he's crazy as **** but you're gonna attack me over him anyway? Oh wait the quest where I got poisoned was fun. Then there was you stupidly letting yourself get framed (Even if you have every reason to be suspicious as hell of him and don't even kill the guards!). **** I found the Narrator for my CE character's dreams the most interesting thing in the game. And I played them both back to back (because I wanted the full experience.). BG2 was such an improvement. Characters, Villian, Relationships, story, even the combat (BG2's was more bearable. Though that due to me being a higher level I'm not sure. Sorcerer is very level dependent on decency.) most things were a grand improvement. (There's a reason the most popular mods puts BG1 in BG2's engine and adds banter like in BG2).

 

(That said the combat. D&D and me are not bros to say the least).

[Akrabra]

One small comparision between true fallout (2) and Bethesda version fallout.

 

My favorite muty, who says green skin must be canon fodder without complexity?

 

And whats left in FO4.

 

I weep for super muties...

 

Now, I weep for FO...

 

I missed the time when in FO4 NPC react to player's gender, skill set up, hell even armor/cloth you equipped. 

Also this comparison is nothing but taken out of context to confuse and spread a false image of discussion about the game. The West Coast Super Mutants was made intellectual by the the master and his influence over them. The East Coast never had a prophet or anything to guide them, they were just a failed Vault-Tec experiment. And if you actually finished Fallout 4 you would know why the Super Mutants are like that in Boston aswell, and that not everyone is like the ones we see in the video.

[panzerwzh]

An in depth review of FO4 from a hardcore FO3 modder. Contain major spoilers. Begins at 46:06

Spoiler

[Wolven_Soul]

Well, you mention simplification as a bad thing, but it seems to me like the endgame of simplification would be something more like the witcher. It's elegantly implemented, yes, but complicated it ain't. DAI still has limited tactics, it has various status ailments and cross class combo attacks to take advantage thereof, it has three distinct classes with nine distinct advance classes and many distinct subclasses. It's streamlined from its earlier iterations, sure, but it's anything but simplified. The witcher has five magic spells, a fast attack, a strong attack, and a single class. Yes, there's more to it, but not significantly more.

 

In any case, I wouldn't deny that they're different skill sets, but I think that's immaterial. What's important is the one-to-one relationship between a players input in real life versus the avatar's actions in the game, which is intrinsic to action gameplay, and which any given shooter has in common with the witcher and a million other games. This just isn't necessarily the case with DA and other games like it. I could have one arm with one finger, and I'd still be able to (literally) poke my way through DAI. I wouldn't be able to complete many shooters like that - or any of the witcher games, for that matter.

 

Thankfully, in my case, I have no disability preventing me from enjoying these games (and as I said, action games are my preference, if ever so slightly). But it's not something to discard lightly. Beyond that, the gameplay styles are just so different (not superior or inferior, just distinct), and plenty of people simply prefer party RPGs flat out. I can't imagine managing a party of companions with TW's system. It's wonderful when you're playing a single dude, and a single class, but I flat out don't think it's capable of managing a diverse group with that many skills.

 

We probably can't convince each other that the other is in the right, but I think what we can agree on is that TW3 is a gamechanger like Skyrim was a gamechanger. It's inevitably going to influence whatever Bioware comes up with next, and Bioware has a tendency to take precisely the wrong thing and run with it. I like fixed protagonists sometimes, and I like action games frequently but I feel very strongly that neither of those things should be Bioware's takeaway from the success of TW3 (which, if it's at all vague or unclear, I goddamn loved). I want them to know that the sentiment exists out here. Even if you prefer action games, there's still room for RTwP party based RPGs these days.

 

Yeah, we can certainly agree that Witcher 3 is a game changer.  And we can even agree Bioware should not do action combat or a fixed protagonist.  I would rather their next DA game that they try the in between approach again.  Thing is, I am not sure that they can do that and still have race selection which I also want.  If they have to give us just one race, I hope it's not human.  Little chance of that.  

 

I want them to go back to more tactical combat, because in some ways DA:I feels like it tries to be a mix of action and tactical, and to me, it doesn't really feel like it succeeds at either.  I love party based games, it's one of the reasons that BG2 is still among my favorite games of all time.

[Wolven_Soul]

Who gets to decide what an RPG is by the way? Is it you? Or some sweaty youtube reviewer? Fallout 4 has everything that Skyrim had and more and that was an RPG. But somehow this is an action game? Meh you are getting on my nerves Panzer. 

 

I still consider FO4 an RPG, but to be fair it's RPG elements are minimalized when compared to past games.  From what I am hearing it is really difficult to play a truly evil dude in FO4, that some options that were there in past games are not there in this one.  Granted, this is only what I have heard, I only have ten hours with the game, but there was a quest mentioned about fixing a water supply?  Where in past games you could get an option to poisoning it rather than purifying it.  And another where it forces you to rescue someone imprisoned rather than giving you an option of leaving you there or outright killing him.  

 

Also, I have to say, I hate, HATE, that they have taken out conversation options that you only get if a certain stat is high enough.  Like the intimidation options if you have a high strength, or saying something sciency if your intelligence is high enough.

[Wolven_Soul]

And somehow TW3 isn't an action game, when one of the closest (and let's face it, one of the most flattering) comparisons many people draw is to Red Dead Redemption - emphatically not an RPG, by most estimates. Seems like often enough the only thing that two given RPGs have in common is branching dialogue or slightly varied endings. But even then, using those criteria eliminates more than a few very classic RPGs from the running. Mostly, I think it's "RPG=game I like."

 

Whether you're going by story or gameplay mechanics, it's a mostly meaningless descriptor, at this point, which I've made peace with. It's enough to know what I like.

 

I will say that folks are welcome to be a hipster about twenty year old games all they want. I played Fallout 2 and BG and such when I was 14, and they blew my tiny mind, but players who think all of that stuff has aged well  - especially BG - need to either play it again, or take off the rose colored binoculars. And Bethesda, in my estimation, have never taken a step backwards with any of their games. Fighting with Morrowind's awful Bethesda^tm leveling system is something I have no desire to do ever again. That stuff is well lost.

 

Edit to add that good lord, the guy in that video embodies everything I hate about this youtube gamer zeitgeist. Sometimes, you just don't merit a platform. What an insufferable douche.

 

I certainly don't think that BG has aged well in any way, shape, or form.  But I can still play those games and have a lot of fun with them, as I did last year when I got the enhanced edition of BG1.  Man I need a computer good enough to at least play those again, and so I can try out FO 1 and 2.  

 

At least Wasteland 2 is coming to consoles which is supposed to be a good spiritual successor to the original FO games.

[Wolven_Soul]

Played Fallout 1 a few months ago, and its ok. Its not a great game by any means, not because its dated, but the story is not really that good. Find the Water Chip, deal with the master. Its very straightfoward and not that entertaining. Actually Fallout 3 reminds me the most of the original Fallout, even though it had some plot moments from 2 aswell. 

 

The original BG is quite bad, but Baldurs Gate II is still one of my favourite games to this date, and i don't mean that crappy Enhanced Edition, the real deal. I think they've aged well enough, but alot of new mechanics has been put into use the last 15 years which these games could have had great benefit from in its time. Also i don't really like Faerun as a fantasy setting, its to over the top for me. I am glad that Bioware went out of their way to create own settings with Dragon Age and Mass Effect. 

 

Oh I have to disagree about Faerun as a fantasy setting, I have always thought it was great, and it is home to my all time favorite character Drizzt Do'Urden.  Freaking loved meeting him in both BG games.  Over the top?  Sure, maybe a little, but it is such a great, great world with a lot of fascinating places and people in it.  

 

That being said, not as good as Sanderson's worlds.  I'm telling ya, we need a game where we can play as a Mistborn.

[panzerwzh]

Oh I have to disagree about Faerun as a fantasy setting, I have always thought it was great, and it is home to my all time favorite character Drizzt Do'Urden.  Freaking loved meeting him in both BG games.  Over the top?  Sure, maybe a little, but it is such a great, great world with a lot of fascinating places and people in it.  

 

That being said, not as good as Sanderson's worlds.  I'm telling ya, we need a game where we can play as a Mistborn.

Zaknafein for life!

[Xetykins]

Zaknafein for life!

And Pwent my all time favorite smelly guttbuster. My d&d equivalent to Oghren.

[Akrabra]

Oh I have to disagree about Faerun as a fantasy setting, I have always thought it was great, and it is home to my all time favorite character Drizzt Do'Urden.  Freaking loved meeting him in both BG games.  Over the top?  Sure, maybe a little, but it is such a great, great world with a lot of fascinating places and people in it.  

 

That being said, not as good as Sanderson's worlds.  I'm telling ya, we need a game where we can play as a Mistborn.

Ugh, Mistborn Man we used to like the same things. What happened?

 

EDIT - Closing in on 500 pages, though i am willing to bet that Elhanan contributed 250 of them. (sorry, had to.)

[Xetykins]

http://www.pushsquar...e_for_fallout_4

 

I guess we now know the real reason why B&W expansion got pushed to first half instead of Q1

[Elhanan]

Ugh, Mistborn Man we used to like the same things. What happened?
 
EDIT - Closing in on 500 pages, though i am willing to bet that Elhanan contributed 250 of them. (sorry, had to.)

Someone needs to actually speak about DAI on the thread, after all....

[Wolven_Soul]

And Pwent my all time favorite smelly guttbuster. My d&d equivalent to Oghren.

 

Oh yes, The Pwent.  That brief time where him and Athrogate were palling around, just pure gold.  

[Wolven_Soul]

Ugh, Mistborn Man we used to like the same things. What happened?

 

EDIT - Closing in on 500 pages, though i am willing to bet that Elhanan contributed 250 of them. (sorry, had to.)

 

You don't like Mistborn?  Sacrilege lady!

[Akrabra]

You don't like Mistborn?  Sacrilege lady!

Lady? Neh not a huge fan of Mistborn. Sanderson did great work on the last Wheel of Time book though. 

[Wolven_Soul]

Lady? Neh not a huge fan of Mistborn. Sanderson did great work on the last Wheel of Time book though. 

 

Yes he did, but his original work is even better in my opinion.  The Stormlight Archive in particular.  Dude's magic systems and world building are just fantastic.

[Xetykins]

Sweet.

Spoiler

 http://www.game-deba...nticipated 2016

 

 

I'm not salty PoE got best RPG because that game deserves recognition. BF getting Best Visual is ok too because it really does look good. It will not get best art direction i think.

[Eelectrica]

Sweet.

Spoiler

 http://www.game-deba...nticipated 2016

 

 

I'm not salty PoE got best RPG because that game deserves recognition. BF getting Best Visual is ok too because it really does look good. It will not get best art direction i think.

For being a pure, classic RPG, I feel Pillars wins. It's not a game for everyone though due to the slow nature of its combat.

I like both Pillars and W3, even if they have different RPG styles.

Good on Obsidian though for getting that award from those guys. Hope they pick up a few more from other sites as well.

[Akrabra]

For being a pure, classic RPG, I feel Pillars wins. It's not a game for everyone though due to the slow nature of its combat.

I like both Pillars and W3, even if they have different RPG styles.

Good on Obsidian though for getting that award from those guys. Hope they pick up a few more from other sites as well.

Love me some PoE. Haven't played the expansion yet though, waiting for the second part to be released.