15875 réponses à ce sujet

[wolfhowwl]

I can think of 20 million reasons.

 

We can add Ubisoft's annual blockbusters to that too.

[Sartoz]

I got permission from the poster of the vid to leave this here.  Personally, I really like his vid on characters in DA and disagree with him about some of the Witcher stuff.  I think hes a bit too harsh on Bioware, but I know he echoes the sentiments of some of the fanbase.  I'm just posting this here because its the central hub about Witcher/DA stuff.  

 

                                                                                            <<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>

 

Thanks for the link. 6yr olds and Plato eh?

 

Well I'm looking forward op playing the game...

[KaiserShep]

the lack of side quest specific companion dialogue.

 

This is patently false. You use examples like a collection or fetch quest, but conveniently ignore the others that will get contributions from one or more of them.

 

For all of DA:I's faults, companions lacking dialogue, either reactionary or dialogue you can prompt, is certainly not one of them. Heck, this is the first DA game where we even get to occasionally choose dialogue to contribute to banter.

[Rawgrim]

It's not silly, though.  Especially since DAO came out before Mass Effect 2, the game where we witnessed the design evolve to move companion quests front-and-center into their own category.

 

ME2 had basically the same companion quest design as Baldur's Gate 2 and Kotor, really. It wasn't really anything evolving.

[Grieving Natashina]

Looking at Skyrim up there, I'm wondering how many of those 20 million actually finished the game or how many quit due to boredom.  Many RPG fans I know of were being told how great the game is and that we've got to buy it.   My husband couldn't get more than 4 hours in without getting bored to tears and running into his first gamebreaking bug that left him unable to progress with the main plot (the vanishing companion.)  I hate first person RPGs and I couldn't get into any of TES games, no matter how hard my father tried.  He's been trying since 1994.   It was funny how many people told me, "Oh, you'll love it!"  I watched my husband play and went, "Yep, I'm glad I didn't waste my money on this.  Oblivion was bad enough."

 

I'm glad Skyrim fans had fun, but talk about overhyped.  I also don't think that the DA team was wrong for taking elements of that either.  I think they did a fine job with the open-world aspect, in so far as exploration and the atmosphere of the zones.  It's the lack of connectivity to the other zones and largely to the main plot is where I think they failed.

[Rawgrim]

Go feed and help the refugees, and listen to the conversations afterwards. Offer them additional protection, and there is more. As for lazy, I offer this again from DG:


The game is vast, and dialogue may not cover every event. But I am fairly certain that much of what is there has yet to be heard, or is purposely being ignored to support such an opinion.

And if one does not like jumping for Shards, collecting bottles, side quests that aid NPC's for no apparent purpose other than serving others, then skip them. While I like the latter myself, I pass on the other examples and still have 600+ hrs over two completed campaigns. No grinding required.

 

You don't know you can skip the shard quests the first time you lay the game, or any other chore-quest. You only know that after you have played the game to the end. Bioware heavily implied, before release, that every area in the game would feature story heavy quests. With that in mind a player might think the shard fetching or other fetch quests might open up a story based quest afterwards.

[Rawgrim]

Looking at Skyrim up there, I'm wondering how many of those 20 million actually finished the game or how many quit due to boredom.  Many RPG fans I know of were being told how great the game is and that we've got to buy it.   My husband couldn't get more than 4 hours in without getting bored to tears and running into his first gamebreaking bug that left him unable to progress with the main plot (the vanishing companion.)  I hate first person RPGs and I couldn't get into any of TES games, no matter how hard my father tried.  He's been trying since 1994.   It was funny how many people told me, "Oh, you'll love it!"  I watched my husband play and went, "Yep, I'm glad I didn't waste my money on this.  Oblivion was bad enough."

 

I'm glad Skyrim fans had fun, but talk about overhyped.  I also don't think that the DA team was wrong for taking elements of that either.  I think they did a fine job with the open-world aspect, in so far as exploration and the atmosphere of the zones.  It's the lack of connectivity to the other zones and largely to the main plot is where I think they failed.

 

You can switch to third person view in SKyrim, I think. Don't take my word for it though. I just seem to remember that you could.

[Dreadstruck]

You can switch to third person view in SKyrim, I think. Don't take my word for it though. I just seem to remember that you could.

 

You could indeed do that in every TES game since Morrowind.

[Grieving Natashina]

You can switch to third person view in SKyrim, I think. Don't take my word for it though. I just seem to remember that you could.

 

You could indeed do that in every TES game since Morrowind.

 

 

Apparently so, but it can kick up motion sickness something fierce.  Pass, and that's really not how the game was meant to be played.  I appreciate the heads up though.  

 

It doesn't help that I find the entire TES setting nothing but boring.  It's the most generic "let's rip of Tolkien and every D&D campaign you might have played" story I've ever seen.  Give me the story of Thedas versus another yawn-fest of an uninspired plot that hasn't improved in over 20 years.  With iffy controls, some bad bugs, and no real connection to my character.  I'm not ripping on the fans of Skyrim, far from it, but I can't stand how dull it is.  I also still chuckle that the controls haven't gotten much better since Morrowwind.  I have at least tried most of TES games up until Skyrim.

[Steelcan]

Now why you would is another question

[Steelcan]

Apparently so, but it can kick up motion sickness something fierce.  Pass, and that's really not how the game was meant to be played.  I appreciate the heads up though.  
 
It doesn't help that I find the entire TES setting nothing but boring.  It's the most generic "let's rip of Tolkien and every D&D companion you might have played" story I've ever seen.  Give me the story of Thedas versus another yawn-fest of an uninspired plot that hasn't improved in over 20 years.

I'm sorry, but this is just flat wrong

TES has the deepest and richest lore that you will find outside of Tolkien himself. "Generic" does it an enormous disservice

[KaiserShep]

You don't know you can skip the shard quests the first time you lay the game, or any other chore-quest. You only know that after you have played the game to the end. Bioware heavily implied, before release, that every area in the game would feature story heavy quests. With that in mind a player might think the shard fetching or other fetch quests might open up a story based quest afterwards.

 

I really don't follow this at all. Unless you have absolutely no idea how the journal works, it doesn't take much to realize that you can ignore the shards. The only reason I kept going in my first playthrough was because they were there and it's in my nature to do everything, but I knew full well that I didn't need to do it. Heck just knowing that you already met the requirements to engage in the next stage of the main quest makes that clear.

[Rawgrim]

 

 

 

 

Apparently so, but it can kick up motion sickness something fierce.  Pass, and that's really not how the game was meant to be played.  I appreciate the heads up though.  

 

It doesn't help that I find the entire TES setting nothing but boring.  It's the most generic "let's rip of Tolkien and every D&D campaign you might have played" story I've ever seen.  Give me the story of Thedas versus another yawn-fest of an uninspired plot that hasn't improved in over 20 years.  With iffy controls, some bad bugs, and no real connection to my character.  I'm not ripping on the fans of Skyrim, far from it, but I can't stand how dull it is.  I also still chuckle that the controls haven't gotten much better since Morrowwind.  I have at least tried most of TES games up until Skyrim.

 

 

You get plenty of stories like that in TES games. But mostly they are tied to the Guild-questlines. Those are always far superior to the main quest in those games.

 

Not sure I would call it a Tolkien rip-off, though. It has elves and stuff in them but those are way different than the Tolkien ones. It is generic, though. Very much so.

[Andraste_Reborn]

I hate first person RPGs and I couldn't get into any of TES games, no matter how hard my father tried.  He's been trying since 1994.   It was funny how many people told me, "Oh, you'll love it!"  I watched my husband play and went, "Yep, I'm glad I didn't waste my money on this.  Oblivion was bad enough."

 

I played Morrowind for about four hours before I got bored and gave up. With Oblivion it took about twenty, which still didn't seem worth it. (My lizard already had a nice house and a cool horse. What else could she want? Certainly not to finish the 'plot' or deal with the ridiculous levelling system any longer.) I learned my lesson and didn't buy Skyrim at all. I mean, I think they're probably great games if you like that sort of thing, but clearly they are not for me.

[Rawgrim]

I really don't follow this at all. Unless you have absolutely no idea how the journal works, it doesn't take much to realize that you can ignore the shards. The only reason I kept going in my first playthrough was because they were there and it's in my nature to do everything, but I knew full well that I didn't need to do it. Heck just knowing that you already met the requirements to engage in the next stage of the main quest makes that clear.

 

All I knew was that they were there to unlock an ancient temple. I didn't know what was inside, exactly. Could have been a massive dungeon, for all I knew.

[Seraphim24]

I can think of 20 million reasons.

 

We're approaching more outrageous opinion territory, but I think the success of Skyrim was weighted heavily on the aesthetic sensibilities, it was extremely tightly directed and hyper-realistic in terms of pacing, progress, and characters.

 

None of those things are inherently size related, If they had halved (or even 1/3ed) the size of the world, it may very well have still sold 20 million, I bet most of those people never covered half the map anyway. (I sure didn't).

 

I think it's similar to Minecraft, where the aesthetic isn't even really broad, it's critically limited in many respects, but it's seamless and otherwise heavily forward pushing. Goals aren't created in the typical sense, but they're reverse engineered from the inherent obviousness of the gimmicks and bonuses and momentum. Technically and aesthetically speaking though, it's practically a penal colony, but that's irrelevant if the sinker catches something, so to speak.

 

Anyway I said it's an outrageous opinion, but the "open world" concept is almost entirely backwards, IMHO. Games which are significantly smaller are quite capable of creating a similarly manipulative aesthetic, which also gives them more room to create emotional experiences.

 

Earlier Elder Scrolls games such as Morrowind, however, achieved much more in half the size, it just didn't peak at the time when RPGs were a thing and many people never played it quite frankly at the time (although there were more glaring issues with combat and such). It's still my favorite TES game.

[Rawgrim]

I played Morrowind for about four hours before I got bored and gave up. With Oblivion it took about twenty, which still didn't seem worth it. (My lizard already had a nice house and a cool horse. What else could she want? Certainly not to finish the 'plot' or deal with the ridiculous levelling system any longer.) I learned my lesson and didn't buy Skyrim at all. I mean, I think they're probably great games if you like that sort of thing, but clearly they are not for me.

 

Oblivion had the worst gameplay ever in an rpg, I think. The level system was just rotten. No point in leveling up in tha game, really. Since everything just leveled up with you.

 

They got rid of that in Skyrim, though.

[Grieving Natashina]

I'm sorry, but this is just flat wrong

TES has the deepest and richest lore that you will find outside of Tolkien himself. "Generic" does it an enormous disservice

This is just opinion, so neither of us are wrong as far as I'm concerned.  

 

I tried the main quests in TES games, and I found them none of them compelling.  I've tried the side quests and it was almost all filler that had nothing to do with the main plot.  I do remember a lot of fetch quests though.  I feel the same about TES games as some folks have felt about DA:I.  A whole lot of pretty fluff that left me feeling like I wasted my money.

 

I think TES is overrated and boring.  More "telling" and less "showing" any other other Western RPG I've ever played.  The stories themselves?  Yeah, I've had better stories come out of D&D games.  I think TES fails so hard at presenting a compelling story for me.   I'd prefer Thedas, or Dragonlance, or Forgotten Realms.  Give me TW's world, because that was one of the few things that I actually liked about my TW1 experience.

 

Again, I'm glad that any Skyrim fan enjoy it, and I'm not begrudging those that love TES' world.  I'm also not interested in any sort of contest between fans.  However, I see TES and I see, "$60 that can stay safely in my bank account."   Nothing personal, and I'm honestly happy if folks are having fun.  All that matters to me.

 

To each their own, but saying "But RPG fans loved Skryim" isn't universally true.

[Zinho73]

Pfft... I remember the earlier interviews where they boasted how "they were currently looking at Skyrim in terms of open world gameplay". Didn't turn out so well now, did it.

 

Well, let's hope their point of interest next time will be, among others, Witcher 3. Things can still be salvaged. I have faith.

I guess the big problem is that it worked.

I think DAI is a beautiful unfocused mess, but unlike DA2, this time not only the critics but several players fell in love with the format.

The game is being praised everywhere.

But this things are difficult to measure, specially in the game forum in which normally only the passionate post (for and against).

I do hope that the negative feedback is sinking in.

[KaiserShep]

All I knew was that they were there to unlock an ancient temple. I didn't know what was inside, exactly. Could have been a massive dungeon, for all I knew.

 

Sure, but even you knew full well that it had a dungeon inside beforehand, it really comes down to the journal. Anything not in the Inquisitor's Path can just be cherry-picked to meet the bare minimum of power necessary to unlock each quest.

[FiveThreeTen]

Not agreeing on the generic thing for TES games. But I get that the lore is hard to get into for new players.

I wouldn't call Morrowind elves generic for example.

 

Heavily modded Oblivion is nice.

Modded Skyrim and Morrowind are gems.

 

But hey different tastes for different folks and all that.

[Rawgrim]

This is just opinion, so neither of us are wrong as far as I'm concerned.  

 

I tried the main quests in TES and I found them none of them compelling.  I've tried the side quests and it was almost all filler that had nothing to do with the main plot.  I do remember a lot of fetch quests though.  I feel the same about TES games as some folks have felt about DA:I.  A whole lot of pretty fluff that left me feeling like I wasted my money.

 

I think TES is overrated and boring.  More "telling" and less "showing" any other other Western RPG I've ever played.  The stories themselves?  Yeah, I've had better stories come out of D&D games.  I think TES fails so hard at presenting a compelling story for me.   I'd prefer Thedas, or Dragonlance, or Forgotten Realms.  Give me TW's world, because that was one of the few things that I actually liked about my TW1 experience.

 

Again, I'm glad that any Skyrim fan enjoy it, and I'm not begrudging those that love TES' world.  I'm also not interested in any sort of contest between fans.  However, I see TES and I see, "$60 that can stay safely in my bank account."  To each their own, but saying "But RPG fans loved Skryim" isn't universally true.

 

Golden Rule: the main quests in TES games tend to suck. Its the weak points of the games.

 

If you want to really get into the lore you have to invetigate the Lore in-game. Look through books in the games, talk to the right people. The game doesn't hand you the information for "free".

 

I can see why many doesn't like this, though. But compared to the main quests in those games, the guild quests in them are far from boring.

[Rawgrim]

Sure, but even you knew full well that it had a dungeon inside beforehand, it really comes down to the journal. Anything not in the Inquisitor's Path can just be cherry-picked to meet the bare minimum of power necessary to unlock each quest.

 

Yes. Which was why I did the quest. I didn't know the whole dungeon was one medium sized fetch quest. I thought there might have been a big story tied to it. Given that we got a huge area just for that dungeon. And the devs told me each area would have quests that were heavily story driven.

[slimgrin]

Pfft... I remember the earlier interviews where they boasted how "they were currently looking at Skyrim in terms of open world gameplay". Didn't turn out so well now, did it.

 

Well, let's hope their point of interest next time will be, among others, Witcher 3. Things can still be salvaged. I have faith.

 

No way on god's green earth TW3 will reach the E3 builds. That stuff is 5 years down the road. Both Bioware and CDPR were influenced by Skyrim, or TES in general, but it seems Bioware took the worst bits, and CDPR took the best. I still say that working under a publisher is the death of creativity, and it's the publishers who need to change in order for major devs to branch out, take risks. 

[Grieving Natashina]

That's another thing.  "Oh Skyrim is okay, but wait until you have it modded!  Then it starts being fun."  I've heard that for the last couple of years too.  If I feel I have to mod a game to make it interesting for me, then I'm going to skip it.  Mods should add to the game, it shouldn't be the reason why I should buy it.  

 

I'm saying that any of us are right or wrong.  This is subjective experience based on a game, after all.