15845 réponses à ce sujet

[vbibbi]

To be fair, I think due to Poland's economy, the developers can be paid much less than Canadian developers, so the studio doesn't spend as much of its budget on personnel. There have been articles floated about on how overworked CDP was and the lower costs. Also, wasn't the game partially funded by the Polish government? CDP was in a very unique situation in terms of game development on such a professional level.

Also, developing the game on five platforms instead of three. Though in hindsight it's clear Bio should have kept it to three.

But I agree, project management did not seem to be a strength of DAI. They cite the time in learning and adapting the Frostbite engine, so we will see if DA4 takes less time or does more with the same amount of time. But resources were not rationally handled, as evidenced by the uneven story presentation, abundance of filler, and emphasis on creating as many maps as possible without having sufficient content with which to populate them.

[straykat]

To be fair, I think due to Poland's economy, the developers can be paid much less than Canadian developers, so the studio doesn't spend as much of its budget on personnel. There have been articles floated about on how overworked CDP was and the lower costs. Also, wasn't the game partially funded by the Polish government? CDP was in a very unique situation in terms of game development on such a professional level.

Also, developing the game on five platforms instead of three. Though in hindsight it's clear Bio should have kept it to three.

But I agree, project management did not seem to be a strength of DAI. They cite the time in learning and adapting the Frostbite engine, so we will see if DA4 takes less time or does more with the same amount of time. But resources were not rationally handled, as evidenced by the uneven story presentation, abundance of filler, and emphasis on creating as many maps as possible without having sufficient content with which to populate them.

 

Some of these government deals happen in the US too.. there's still capitalism and expected return on investments involved.. same demands.. but it's supposed to be a boon on the locale's end, if it creates jobs.

 

There are some disastrous stories too. Like Kurt Schilling and Kingdoms of Amalur.

[vbibbi]

Some of these government deals happen in the US too.. there's still capitalism and expected return on investments involved.. same demands.. but it's supposed to be a boon on the locale's end, if it creates jobs.
 
There are some disastrous stories too. Like Kurt Schilling and Kingdoms of Amalur.

I hadn't heard of that! Granted I don't follow that much gaming news, but I never would have expected government sponsorship here.

[straykat]

I hadn't heard of that! Granted I don't follow that much gaming news, but I never would have expected government sponsorship here.

 

I thought that was a big deal actually at least in the States.. made mainstream news. Since Schilling is such a famous sports player in the states. He went bankrupt because of the deal, sadly. But I think there were deals involved with Maryland, to aid job creation/creating industry.

[KBomb]

I wouldn't say awards are important to me, as I use reviews and accolades as tools for consideration only. That being said, they are important in the industry, as would any award given in a field of business. It's a way to be recognized and given a public pat on the back for all the hard work a company/person does.

I don't always agree with the recipients, but that is the same for the Emmy's, Oscar's etc. However, every now again, someone wins who I know deserves it (Like CDPR) and I find myself smiling and mind clapping that they won.

As for Tombraider, I really like the newest one. If you liked the last one, you'll like this one. Not much different, tbh-- there are more challenges and stuff, if that is your thing. I don't think it was a golden child, but I enjoyed it a lot and will probably play it again sometime before Christmas, when I get FO4 and my life is consumed once more by Bethesda.

Edit: I am excited about ME:A, too. I know I should slow my roll and not put my cart before the horse, but I am excited. Hopefully, they won't muck it up and will have learned from past mistakes. Don't think it will be a Day One or pre-order, though. Sadly, those days are over between Bioware and me. We're taking a break.

[Han Shot First]

I think devs being worked like slaves is a problem in the entire industry, world-wide. EA had quite a scandal over that a few years ago.

[Wolven_Soul]

Some of these government deals happen in the US too.. there's still capitalism and expected return on investments involved.. same demands.. but it's supposed to be a boon on the locale's end, if it creates jobs.

 

There are some disastrous stories too. Like Kurt Schilling and Kingdoms of Amalur.

 

Yeah that was a shame.  That game had potential.  I really liked it's skill progression, and the combat was a good deal of fun.  Unfortunately, it was even more similar to an MMO than DA:I was and a lot more bland story wise.

[straykat]

Yeah that was a shame.  That game had potential.  I really liked the skill progression in that game, and the combat was a good deal of fun.  Unfortunately, it was even more similar to an MMO than DA:I was and a lot more bland story wise.

 

Yeah, the mmo stuff put me off. But the combat was cool. And I think Curt Schilling was sincere.. he loves games. He just loves MMOs as well, which shaped it.

[vbibbi]

I just read an article about Schilling. I think I had heard about it before but am not a sports guy so didn't recognize the name. From what I read, the company's failure was mostly on his shoulders. And it sounds like his studio just bought the company developing KoA rather than developing it himself. I played it, I remember being fairly bored with the lack of interaction or characters but enjoying the environments. Very similar to a lot of the MMO problems in DAI, but I had no expectations so wasn't disappointed.

[straykat]

I just read an article about Schilling. I think I had heard about it before but am not a sports guy so didn't recognize the name. From what I read, the company's failure was mostly on his shoulders. And it sounds like his studio just bought the company developing KoA rather than developing it himself. I played it, I remember being fairly bored with the lack of interaction or characters but enjoying the environments. Very similar to a lot of the MMO problems in DAI, but I had no expectations so wasn't disappointed.

 

He had originally planned on it being an mmo.. so that's why it feels that way. Then things changed and they recycled some of it for single player. I think he had a lot to do with the original development though. At least as a spokesperson. I used to hang out at a forum that he sometimes dropped by. He was hyping it up because he got RA Salvatore for writing and Todd McFarlane for art..  also got the designer behind Oblivion. This was long before the game came out.

 

Flawed game or not though, it's sad to see someone lose their ass over a game. The guy was like a national hero... and it ate into his wallet.

[vbibbi]

He had originally planned on it being an mmo.. so that's why it feels that way. Then things changed and they recycled some of it for single player. I think he had a lot to do with the original development though. At least as a spokesperson. I used to hang out at a forum that he sometimes dropped by. He was hyping it up because he got RA Salvatore for writing and Todd McFarlane for art..  also got the designer behind Oblivion. This was long before the game came out.
 
Flawed game or not though, it's sad to see someone lose their ass over a game. The guy was like a national hero... and it ate into his wallet.

I feel worse for all of the employees who lost their jobs, their last two months' worth of pay checks and had to pay off the incentives that the company defaulted on. It's rough for Schilling, sure, but it was from his own making and it sounds like he ruined all of his employees' lives. I really hope that everyone was able to get back on their feet, him included.

[straykat]

I feel worse for all of the employees who lost their jobs, their last two months' worth of pay checks and had to pay off the incentives that the company defaulted on. It's rough for Schilling, sure, but it was from his own making and it sounds like he ruined all of his employees' lives. I really hope that everyone was able to get back on their feet, him included.

 

True. I don't want to take away from their losses. I wonder where some went to.. I always had this feeling that DAI had some of them, just for the similarity. Even the menus in the CC resemble it a little.

[ashwind]

On GOTY awards, they are little more than a component in the marketing machine of the gaming industry. And almost by definition a bad idea. Think DA:I kept its November release date purely out of some altruistic desire not to disappoint the players? Had it be released several months later, as it should've been (since the game was unplayable on keyboard -mouse at release -- one of many bug and polish issues) it would've had to compete with Witcher 3 and Fallout 4. Think DAI would've taken home many prizes in that case?

 

Speaking of the comparison in terms of what DAI can do better.... project management. 3.5 years in development for DAI vs. 2.5 for the Witcher 3. Lets assume they had comparable budgets (unless someone else's google-foo has those numbers handy). CDPR put out an arguably better product with more content in a shorter time, possibily on less money. This boils down to a project management issue. Clearly resources were not spent effectively nor were the proper aspects of the project prioritized correctly. Bottom line, they should seriously consider bringing in someone from the outside to lead both project management and perhaps even story development to avoid falling into similar pitfalls (though its probably already too late for DA4 and MEA).

 

To be fair, every one in the gaming industry knows when will these awards will be held and when is the cutoff date. DAI kept its launch date and took game of the year 2014.

 

DAI was broken on keyboard/mouse? Says who? There are at least 2 person who does not have the slightest problem with DAI's mouse/keyboard - me and TotalBiscuit. --> These are all opinions, they are subjective.

 

- DAI keyboard mouse - subjectively broken. It is not objectively broken, it works as you would expect, some just dont like it.

 

- Fallout keyboard bindings - objectively/factually broken. (It is not a matter of like or dislike, getting use to or not getting use to. It is a matter of the game refusing to respect player key mapping.) Unless, the game refusing to respect whatever key you bind as the "Activate" key in multiple situation is by design. 

 

 

If people dont like GOTY, just... dont watch it.   Dont understand what the fuss is. GTA can win a trillion more GOTY and I wont be touching it because I dont like its theme. I also wont go out and deny the effort of the developers and scale of the game that was GTA. I may not agree to it winning GOTY but I know that it has the caliber to be GOTY and if it wins.... all I can say is congratulations Rockstar Games - your fans love you, the critics love you, you must be doing something good.

[straykat]

Even Total Biscuit didn't care for it though, from what I recall. I thought it was refreshing to hear from a popular reviewer.

 

Not necessarily to confirm my own bias.. it was just nice to see the lack of enthusiasm. I honestly didn't get why I saw so much of it elsewhere. Reviewers didn't merely like it.. they jumped for joy for DAI. I didn't understand.

[Hazegurl]

For anyone interested. I didn't see this until today, sorry if it's been posted already.

 

CDPR is having a Witcher 3 holiday modding contest.

 

"Attention all modders! We have an awesome holiday contest just for you! Geralt and the gang need some warm clothing to make it through the harsh Skellige winters! We’re partnering up with our friends at NexusMods to make this happen!"

 

The prize:

 

 

http://thewitcher.com/modcontest

 

Submissions close on January 5th, 2016 4pm CEST.

[ashwind]

Even Total Biscuit didn't care for it though, from what I recall. I thought it was refreshing to hear from a popular reviewer.

 

Not necessarily to confirm my own bias.. it was just nice to see the lack of enthusiasm. I honestly didn't get why I saw so much of it elsewhere. Reviewers didn't merely like it.. they jumped for joy for DAI. I didn't understand.

 

To quote TotalBiscuit

"As someone who is very use to playing MMO, I personally dont have a problem with the way the keyboard and mouse setup"

 

It is not that he does not care, it is not like I dont care. It is that we have no problem but acknowledges some people may not like it. Hence - subjective and not "Broken and unplayable" as some claims.

 

https://youtu.be/lu0XRSTRayo?t=15m19s

[straykat]

To quote TotalBiscuit

"As someone who is very use to playing MMO, I personally dont have a problem with the way the keyboard and mouse setup"

 

It is not that he does not care, it is not like I dont care. It is that we have no problem but acknowledges some people may not like it. Hence - subjective and not "Broken and unplayable" as some claims.

 

https://youtu.be/lu0XRSTRayo?t=15m19s

 

Fair enough. I didn't play enough on PC to care either about controls. My complaint on controls is more general, and about tactics (or lack thereof), and mage class design. This is the same on consoles or PC.

 

It just sounded like his general opinion was unfavorable. But not hate. More like a "meh".

[Traele]

 

To quote TotalBiscuit
"As someone who is very use to playing MMO, I personally dont have a problem with the way the keyboard and mouse setup"
 
It is not that he does not care, it is not like I dont care. It is that we have no problem but acknowledges some people may not like it. Hence - subjective and not "Broken and unplayable" as some claims.
 
https://youtu.be/lu0XRSTRayo?t=15m19s

 

I'm not going to get into a long drawn out arguement on this one. I've heard it before. People saying 'it was fine for me,' as if that is proof of something. If 99 people find a control schema unusable, and one does, that doesn't make it fine. Your, or even TotalBiscuit's experience is singular and anecdotal. I remember both how long the KB+M thread in the weeks after release, and that it was a primary complaint of initial reviewers. My anecdotal evidence is myself and the 8 other people I know (most of which played MMOs) found the initial KB+M controls so terrible they bought or switched the xbox controllers. You can be in denial if you want, but the KB+M schema at release was horrible. They've patched to improve it since, regardless, that is simply one of many examples of the games lack of polish. How about 2H warrior combo finishers being broken and not fixed for months after release? Its clear the game was pushed out, not released when it was 'ready'.

[straykat]

Refresh my memory. How do you even attack?

 

I don't mind DA2 on PC that much..is it anything like that? You kind of just press attack once and it automates afterwards. But yet I preferred it on console. Pressing buttons just feels more involved. And I liked the pull down menu. Then DAI on console feels like DA2 on PC did.. with the automated attacks.

[ashwind]

   

I'm not going to get into a long drawn out arguement on this one. I've heard it before. People saying 'it was fine for me,' as if that is proof of something. If 99 people find a control schema unusable, and one does, that doesn't make it fine. Your, or even TotalBiscuit's experience is singular and anecdotal. I remember both how long the KB+M thread in the weeks after release, and that it was a primary complaint of initial reviewers. My anecdotal evidence is myself and the 8 other people I know (most of which played MMOs) found the initial KB+M controls so terrible they bought or switched the xbox controllers. You can be in denial if you want, but the KB+M schema at release was horrible. They've patched to improve it since, regardless, that is simply one of many examples of the games lack of polish. How about 2H warrior combo finishers being broken and not fixed for months after release? Its clear the game was pushed out, not released when it was 'ready'.

 

There is no prove that 99% finds it broken now is there. DAI sold millions and how many feels that it is broken? I know people who does not have any problem with KB/M as well -but- it could be because we play MMOs and lots of other games that uses the same control schema.

 

The only point I am making here is that:

If WASD is design to move your character in the said direction and it works as intended. It is not broken. Is it "fine"? That is another topic. One can claim that the control schema is horrible, terrible for them but that does not make it broken.

 

To claim that people who dont find it horrible at launch is in denial is outright pathetic (unless you can PROVE it). It shows that you cannot think logically and you have no respect for other people's preferences hence everything you said is irrelevant. Your so call evidence is just a group of players who share your preferences. I respect that and you people will benefit from respecting the other side equally.

 

Broken means, a key is not working as intended. If a game allows me to bind a key to perform a certain action but fails to perform that action when the said key is being pressed. That is broken. It is objective and cant be argued against.

 

Yes, there are many things that I complain about and the 2H finisher not fix until I have finished the game twice is a valid complain. DAI lacks depth (side quests), tactical camera clumsy, unpolished especially towards the end etc etc. All valid complains. 

[straykat]

I don't know if boasting about it's sales means anything. I bought the Collector's Edition and was a DA fan to the point where I owned everything.. except collectibles. And I stuck here at this site when everyone and their mom talked crap about Bioware and threatened Jennifer Hepler with death.

 

 

And now I hate it (that is, DAI).

 

 

OK, not entirely. But still. Here's a loyal fan who isn't impressed. They got my money, but not much else.

[vbibbi]

Sales for the PC version don't necessarily mean people were happy with their purchase, just that they bought the PC version of the game. Do we have numbers for how many people returned the game or traded it in, and how quickly they did so? I think those would be better indicators of how the PC controls were received.

Perhaps another indicator would be to compare how many PC players completed the game versus console players. It might give an indication of how long players were willing to put into the gameplay, but I realize there are a lot of other factors in that data.

I'm just not sure we can say X number of PC versions means X number of players didn't have a problem with the controls. Maybe they didn't read reviews before buying, or maybe they don't have other game systems, or maybe they kept it hoping for a quick patch to fix gameplay problems.

I don't play on PC but everyone I've seen discussing the controls on these boards has said the launch version was awful on PC. And Bio's pre launch videos always had them playing with a controller on PC, which indicates that they knew of the problems and didn't want to advertise.

[ashwind]

I don't know if boasting about it's sales means anything. I bought the Collector's Edition and was a DA fan to the point where I owned everything.. except collectibles. And I stuck here at this site when everyone and their mom talked crap about Bioware and threatened Jennifer Hepler with death.

 

 

And now I hate it (that is, DAI).

 

 

OK, not entirely. But still. Here's a loyal fan who isn't impressed.

 

I am not boating about its sales... I am merely saying it sold millions so there are millions of players who have played DAI. Hence to claim that 99 out of 100 agrees on something, that has to be backed by real evidence and statistics.

 

I am not entirely impressed by DAI as well. Everything went sort of downhill after obtaining Skyhold. I am simply trying to be fair to Bioware. I am trying to differentiate what is subjectively/objectively good, bad and broken.

 

I do however recognized the effort that was poured into DAI - compared to DA2... which a lot of people love but I simply dont. I wont go out and claim that hey: Sales of DA2 is bad and all of you who love DA2 is in denial. No, they like something about DA2 that I dont understand, I can respect that. I can accept that it is just not for me instead of labeling others to be gullible fanboys or something based on their preference.

 

Just because I have no problem with the WASD MMO-ish control schema does not mean that I have no problems with DAI. 

[straykat]

I am not boating about its sales... I am merely saying it sold millions so there are millions of players who have played DAI. Hence to claim that 99 out of 100 agrees on something, that has to be backed by real evidence and statistics.

 

I am not entirely impressed by DAI as well. Everything went sort of downhill after obtaining Skyhold. I am simply trying to be fair to Bioware. I am trying to differentiate what is subjectively/objectively good, bad and broken.

 

I do however recognized the effort that was poured into DAI - compared to DA2... which a lot of people love but I simply dont. I wont go out and claim that hey: Sales of DA2 is bad and all of you who love DA2 is in denial. No, they like something about DA2 that I dont understand, I can respect that. I can accept that it is just not for me instead of labeling others to be gullible fanboys or something based on their preference.

 

Just because I have no problem with the WASD MMO-ish control schema does not mean that I have no problems with DAI. 

 

Fair enough. Still not clear on the control scheme.. I guess I have to try myself, but I dislike it on my computer for other reasons. I have an XB version too.

 

On that note, I bought it twice! lmao. Go figure.

 

edit: BTW keep that last part a secret. I have a rep to uphold.

[ashwind]

Sales for the PC version don't necessarily mean people were happy with their purchase, just that they bought the PC version of the game. Do we have numbers for how many people returned the game or traded it in, and how quickly they did so? I think those would be better indicators of how the PC controls were received.

Perhaps another indicator would be to compare how many PC players completed the game versus console players. It might give an indication of how long players were willing to put into the gameplay, but I realize there are a lot of other factors in that data.

I'm just not sure we can say X number of PC versions means X number of players didn't have a problem with the controls. Maybe they didn't read reviews before buying, or maybe they don't have other game systems, or maybe they kept it hoping for a quick patch to fix gameplay problems.

I don't play on PC but everyone I've seen discussing the controls on these boards has said the launch version was awful on PC. And Bio's pre launch videos always had them playing with a controller on PC, which indicates that they knew of the problems and didn't want to advertise.

 

   Trade in? Returned? DAI is sold on Origin... I know that you can refund the game for a very limited time but I dont think you can trade it in? Can you? 

 

DAI's pc controls are nothing new. They use a pretty generic control schema for many MMOs and other action games. Again, I am arguing that it is not broken/unplayable. It is unfair to claim that it is broken when it works as intended. How well is the real issue here and preference plays a great deal.

 

Also...

I heard about how great the controller works for DAI so I went and try it on a controller myself... I hated it...

 

What? hold down LT to change skills... RT to attack... wait... RT to attack is a shooter control schema. Right? Why is DAI using shooter control schema? Err... cant rebind buttons? Went back to using mouse/keyboard after 2 hours. 

 

No - I am not complaining about the gamepad controlls: except I would like to be able to rebind buttons and use it alongside K/M like TW3 instead of returning to the main menu and selecting one or the other. Yes, I sux at using gamepad - that is a fact and I cannot deny it.