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Feedback... be more like The Witcher 3


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#1351
VelvetV

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Or what about something other than Witcher. Take Game of Thrones. That television series has incest, murder, rape, torture, etc. Think someone concerned with social justice and social conscience would make that television series ? Nope, they won't because they are worried about causing offense. Because of feels

 

Nice illustration to my post above. The paragraph is full of fear that series like Game of Thrones actually stop to exist, if other film-makers recognize that there are people in this world who dislike it or have other wishes.

 

It's obvious how overblown this fear is. There's no logical reason to think that something can completely stop to exist if any other alternatives show up. Such black and white panicked thinking, though, allows for only one option and no choice. No co-existence possible.

 

It's good that in the real world very different series and themes can exist, and peacefully so, together! ;)

 

I'm done  ^_^


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#1352
Shechinah

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*snip*

Works that explores and make use of these themes like the ones in "Game of Thrones" will always exist and the idea that they might stop because of some sentiment towards them is something I consider quite baseless especially if you look at books, games, films and television series.  This sentiment has existed for a long time in different forms and the works exploring and making use of themes themes still exist and are still being created. It is nothing new.  


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#1353
Bayonet Hipshot

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And what happens if games don't allow us to indulge in our fantasies? We have to shut up and avoid playing them, we have no chance to be heard and hope for games we'd enjoy more? Or do we have to wait 5 years until next time when such a rare game appears and be alright with that? Because for many people it's a problem that the games do not recognize their need to be an escapist. Yet someone else who is content always tells them to be silent.

 

I see a lot of hypocrisy in this. For example, let's say a game allows me personally to indulge in my fantasy. I happen to be a woman and I don't see a point in escaping into a fantasy of being helpless and abused. That isn't even healthy. So let's say that I prefer to play as a warrior woman who lives in a world where women aren't treated like crap. But then someone comes and says: whoa, this game "lectures" me on social ideology! It has an agenda!

 

But it does not. It just indulges fantasies of women that actually exist and that many of them actually want to play out in a game. How does that "lecture" anyone? It can only lecture those who object to such things ever becoming a reality and\or hate seeing them even in games.

 

I suspect that most objections happen not because people are closet haters of those "agendas" that they falsely see, though. It happens for a very simple reason instead: people feel that by giving an outlet for enjoyment to someone else, developers will create less content for them. And then they create a lot of unconvincing reasons why it should not be done, like these: it's unrealistic, the devs should tell the tale they want, etc. But ultimately it's all about fear that they will get less of what they have now, if needs of others start to get recognized. So by any means possible, needs of others start to get criticized as being ridiculous, which will never persuade anyone who happens to have those needs.

 

I hope this isn't a flame post and I hope I won't regret making it  :) I guess I need to learn to ignore people who make semi-troll posts as lost causes.  :crying:

 

 

Nice illustration to my post above. The paragraph is full of fear that series like Game of Thrones actually stop to exist, if other film-makers recognize that there are people in this world who dislike it or have other wishes.

 

It's obvious how overblown this fear is. There's no logical reason to think that something can completely stop to exist if any other alternatives show up. Such black and white panicked thinking, though, allows for only one option and no choice. No co-existence possible.

 

It's good that in the real world very different series and themes can exist, and peacefully so, together!  ;)

 

I'm done   ^_^

 

Do not put words in my mouth and somehow make a case that I am being afraid of losing content. That's just utter BS. 

 

If I was so afraid of other people losing their chance of having their fantasies, they why have I not for instance, spoken out against things like Fifty Shades or Grey or Twilight or Hunger Games ? These are movies that cater to a female audience and the female fantasies. I think the movies are silly but I do not push to censor them because of my feelings

 

Or what about fanfiction ? There are tons of cringe worthy fanfiction of movies and games that women write that are read by other women. Just go to Solas' thread or Cullen's thread, you will see what I mean. I find these ridiculous as well, but I have never decided to censor them under the banner of social justice righteousness.

 

Likewise, if, according to your claims of me supposedly being so afraid, why have I not moved to push to censor characters like Lara Croft or Bayonetta or female Commander Shepard or female Hero of Ferelden or female Champion of Kirkwall or female Inquisitor or female Dragonborn or Ciri ? Funny thing, I actually enjoy playing them. A lot. 

 

Or what about something other than fantasies ? I dislike heavy rock, metal, dubstep. I prefer classical music. Yet I have never pushed to censor these because I feel other types of music is shite to my ears.

 

As much as you would like to portray my ideas as the ideas of one who is afraid, I am not. Not even remotely. I am simply against censorship, especially censorship due to feelings. My stance on this is no different than my stance of being against people killing cartoonists who mock religious figures in their comics because they feel offended. Additionally, I have no ignore lists or block list of any sort. Its called being a person that is consistent in their stances. I am against censorship, plain and simple.

 

That includes censorship due to social justice weaseling, a crowd that Bioware loves to pander to which results in loss of quality in their games. This we can see in DAI which scrapped off elements such as equal content for romances across the board, lack of brothels, Desire Demons and what have you. There is also very little grayness in Bioware's games because of this, compared to say, games made by CDPR. 

 

Yes, I do not see the need to censor people's fantasies, especially in video games, regardless of it being emotionally offensive to someone. There have been many academic research that has shown that video games have no influence on people's actions in real life. One can even see this in effect. If video games truly affected people than murder by guns would be on a meteoric rise due to the popularity of shooter games. Yet crimes due to guns are dropping in many societies. 

 

The same can be said for other forms of fantastical expression. Game of Thrones is a highly popular show but despite its popularity, incest is not on the rise. Neither is murderous backstabbing. 

 

By contrast, censoring things because people feel it is offensive does have adverse affects. In many ultra religious countries, for instance, pornography is banned. Yet, if you look at porn surveys, many people there watch them. What's more, the crime rate for sexual assault is far higher in these countries that practice censorship due to feels

 

The only difference between social justice and religious righteousness is that one has a god and the other doesn't. Otherwise, its exactly the same. What you think and say and watch and listen offends me so now you can't do them or we will punish you or ostracize you.

 

The fundamental reality is that one cannot, no matter how hard they try, censor human nature. It is human nature to have a morbid curiosity with violence, blood, gore, horror and other forms of taboo. Having a valve of sorts, a channel to direct it to less harmless virtual pixelated means is far better than simply blocking them.


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#1354
Greetsme

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I am enjoying Witcher 3 very much so far, goes to show that games of this type developed in open world don't have to be dull with horrid jerky cut scenes and lifeless characters.


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#1355
Joseph Warrick

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Ah, Europe in 1272. The muslim kingdom of Granada was a hub of culture and commerce. It was during that time the Alhambra palace-city was built.

Not sure what was going on in Poland though.

(The point of this post is: if you want to say Poland was all white, fine. But don't white wash Europe.)
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#1356
Han Shot First

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Ah, Europe in 1272. The muslim kingdom of Granada was a hub of culture and commerce. It was during that time the Alhambra palace-city was built.

Not sure what was going on in Poland though.

(The point of this post is: if you want to say Poland was all white, fine. But don't white wash Europe.)

 

The 13th Century also saw the Mongol invasion of Europe.

 

A diplomatic delegation sent by an Ethiopian king also visited Rome during the 14th Century, and later traveled to France to meet with the Avignon papacy.

 

Italian, Spanish, & Greek ports during many periods of the Middle Ages would have also had visits by North African or Middle Eastern merchants and sailors, just as Greeks, Italians, and Spaniards could be found in their port cities. Its a bit of a myth that contact between Europeans & non-Europeans was rare outside the Crusades.


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#1357
SofaJockey

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You're right that the Witcher fanbase is less divided than Dragon Age's though (or Mass Effect's for that matter).

 

Actually, the TW3 forum has had many threads in recent days that remind me of BSN debates:

  • The game is broken...
  • Don't patch exploits!..
  • Combat sucks...
  • Graphics suck...
  • PC players disappointed..
  • Very disappointing game...

Has to be said the CDPR mods are much more active shutting them down.

And no, most of the angry and entitled threads make no more sense than they do on BSN...


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#1358
Aulis Vaara

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@Tishen-13 : An intelligent person on the internet? Who'd have thunk it?

 

 

Not sure what was going on in Poland though.

 

Evidently a lot of magic, invasions, and sex.


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#1359
Greetsme

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Actually, the TW3 forum has had many threads in recent days that remind me of BSN debates:

  • The game is broken...
  • Don't patch exploits!..
  • Combat sucks...
  • Graphics suck...
  • PC players disappointed..
  • Very disappointing game...

Has to be said the CDPR mods are much more active shutting them down.

And no, most of the angry and entitled threads make no more sense than they do on BSN...

 

I would have expected that from Steam forums but not the official forums, strange.

 

Anyway so far none of those complaints ring true to me.


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#1360
Bayonet Hipshot

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Actually, the TW3 forum has had many threads in recent days that remind me of BSN debates:

  • The game is broken...
  • Don't patch exploits!..
  • Combat sucks...
  • Graphics suck...
  • PC players disappointed..
  • Very disappointing game...

Has to be said the CDPR mods are much more active shutting them down.

And no, most of the angry and entitled threads make no more sense than they do on BSN...

 

Yep. Noticed this as well. CDPR devs are also much more helpful than Bioware's ones. They reply to almost all queries about quests, Gwent and what have you. 

 

For instance, I was wondering if my Geralt will ever see Triss again because he did not choose to romance her and instead went for Yennefer. Within an hour of posting a thread about it, a CDPR dev gave a non-spoiler reply and a spoiler reply. 

 

By contrast Bioware devs don't even bother to help out in this fashion. 
 

I would have expected that from Steam forums but not the official forums, strange.

 

Anyway so far none of those complaints ring true to me.

 

Haters gonna hate. 


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#1361
Andraste_Reborn

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That includes censorship due to social justice weaseling, a crowd that Bioware loves to pander to which results in loss of quality in their games. This we can see in DAI which scrapped off elements such as equal content for romances across the board, lack of brothels, Desire Demons and what have you. There is also very little grayness in Bioware's games because of this, compared to say, games made by CDPR.

 

BioWare deciding not to put these things in the game is not the result of censorship. No government agency said 'you cannot put brothels/Desire Demons/morally grey decisions is your game' and forced them to comply.

 

Some fans saying 'I don't like this' and BioWare choosing to listen or not is just the normal process of feedback, whatever the motivations of said fans. I'm not even persuaded that BioWare took any of those things out because of negative fan feedback. (Hell, I'm not even convinced that they took out morally grey decisions at all.)


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#1362
hoechlbear

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I am really sorry that you had no banter at all. :( I think I'd be unable to play for 70 hours without it, and I'm glad I was one of those lucky ones who didn't have a problem (silence kicked in only once but was resolved). Banter really adds so much to not-so-exciting side quests that having a bug preventing it is beyond excusable.

 

Since BW hasn't come up with ways to properly fixed it, my guess is they can't figure out what's causing it. I'm glad that at least cheat engine solutions exist.

 

 

I was actually referring to interactive banter, the ones where your Inquisitor can join in. They said that was a thing but many people only got around one or two in a whole playthrough. That's not a very good new feature if it's that rare. I did get some usual banter though. Sometimes I would get 2 or 3 in a space of half an hour but other times I could explore a whole new map without them saying a word. But I definitely didn't get the 5 hours of banter this game supposedly has and that's such a waste. They really need to improve their banter system in the next game, specially considering the open world is here to stay (most likely).


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#1363
Elhanan

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Yep. Noticed this as well. CDPR devs are also much more helpful than Bioware's ones. They reply to almost all queries about quests, Gwent and what have you. 
 
For instance, I was wondering if my Geralt will ever see Triss again because he did not choose to romance her and instead went for Yennefer. Within an hour of posting a thread about it, a CDPR dev gave a non-spoiler reply and a spoiler reply. 
 
By contrast Bioware devs don't even bother to help out in this fashion.  
 
Haters gonna hate.


It was a Bioware Dev that tipped me on how to choose Options that would aid me against increased vertigo. This was by setting Effects Quality to Low, and by activating Auto-Center Camera. Both were quite helpful.

Maybe this was done because I try not to be a Hater....
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#1364
Greetsme

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The Witcher has me wanting to wander around because the world actually contains some interesting things/people and quests,  and the cut scenes in Witcher make Bioware's efforts look amateurish


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#1365
DanAxe

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Yes. Which was why I did the quest. I didn't know the whole dungeon was one medium sized fetch quest. I thought there might have been a big story tied to it. Given that we got a huge area just for that dungeon. And the devs told me each area would have quests that were heavily story driven.

 

 

I believe that for whatever reason that feature was axed. BW stated they planned every region to have a major quest tied to the main quest of the game. Just like in Crestwood. You have a major region quest (which is a direct consequence of the breach) that you have to fix. If all regions had this main quest, I think people wouldnt be complaining about the sidequests because they would be outfocused by this main region quests and take simple fetch quests for what they truly are - fluff...

 

I think they planned each region to be like the planets in SW:ToR. You have to go through all the planets to procced your main class quest, and yet, each planet has its own story with its own major quest line which many times even outshines the main class quest content for that specific planet (exactly what I felt in Crestwood - main quest there? Find Hawke's friend - meh. Region main quest - Close the underwater rift, completely changing the landscape and accessible zones while trying to figure the mistery about crestwood's mayor - good!)

 

Unfortunately Crestwood stands alone in a multi open regions world, which is a shame :( lets hope for a version of the game released later on, that adds all the stuff that were cut for reasons unknown...



#1366
Han Shot First

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Yep. Noticed this as well. CDPR devs are also much more helpful than Bioware's ones. They reply to almost all queries about quests, Gwent and what have you. 

 

For instance, I was wondering if my Geralt will ever see Triss again because he did not choose to romance her and instead went for Yennefer. Within an hour of posting a thread about it, a CDPR dev gave a non-spoiler reply and a spoiler reply. 

 

By contrast Bioware devs don't even bother to help out in this fashion. 
 

 

My impression is that Bioware views Twitter as the social media platform to interact with fans rather than the BSN. I don't follow anyone or anything on Twitter so maybe I'm mistaken in that, but the amount of reposts here gives the impression that there is much more dev interaction there than on the BSN.

 

Also Neogaf was chosen as the forum to poll people whether they'd be interested in a Mass Effect trilogy remaster.

 

Outside of Gaider on the DA forums I think this place is most ignored by devs.


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#1367
Shechinah

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BioWare deciding not to put these things in the game is not the result of censorship. No government agency said 'you cannot put brothels/Desire Demons/morally grey decisions is your game' and forced them to comply.

 

 

It should also be noted that Desire Demons' model were not the only demon model to not appear since we saw no model of the Sloth demon or Shade demon that I can recall. They have also not been removed from existence since they are mentioned including by Dorian and Solas. In addition, we had new demons and their models added like Envy, Despair and Fear. They may not have featured solely because there were not time to implement them or they did not feel they were necessary in this game.  

 

Brothels might have been removed because it added little to this installment of the franchise, contributed little to the story and so it was not worth the time spend on designing and creating it.

 

I'm more inclined to believe these explainations than Bioware being scared of offending people, that they are "pandering" or something to that notion.
 


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#1368
Elhanan

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Have seen enough TW3 vids to know that the longer cut-scenes are why I am thankful that these are not extant in DAI as opposed to ME3. I enjoy the 'G' in a RPG; not watching short films.

As for characters, both DAI and TW3 seem to have some good examples. And as I have skipped the TW series, I cannot tell how much lore should be known to play the game.

But I do know that Bioware is fairly good about avoiding the need for a Dune type of glossary to continue gameplay. And as one that is not a lore purist, I appreciate this gesture; also a reason I skipped the sequels to Dune.

#1369
DanAxe

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I disagree. In DAO, there are a number of quests where every companion in your party will give you their opinion on the matter (heck, I love bringing Morrigan with me to Lothering and Redcliffe because I like to help people and give them money and every time I would do that she would hate my guts and be sure to say that to my face instead of having just "Morrigan disapproves" showing up). Many times they actually talk among themselves about what they feel like is right or wrong to do in that situation. Other times you have to talk to them and persuade them to see things your way. Not to mention they always comment when you recruit other people (when you recruit Leliana: Morrigan and Alistair react, when you recruit Sten: Alistair, Morrigan and Leliana react, when you recruit Zevran... well you get the idea..). That gives the feeling that your companions are more than just walking corpses following you about and that they are people with opinions.

 

Many times in DAI I would forget I even had a party with me because of the silence. The ones who seemed to comment the most on the environments were Sera and Cole and on quests, Cassandra and occasionally Solas (and even then, it's usually along the lines of "I'm glad we're doing this." and that's it) while the others are just dead quiet most of the time. At least that's how it felt to me when I played the game back in November. They may comment here and there, but not as frequent and in detail as I would've liked and how we saw in DAO. But then again, it's understandable, because DAI's sidequests are mostly fetch quests so there isn't much to comment on or debate about what is the best path to take because well, you can't make any choices.

 

 

 

I think the problem in Inquisition is the ammount and the size of the regions. Its so big, it would be impossible to have banter working like in DAO or DA2 through all of the regions. Because of that, the amazing effort done with banter feels completely watered down. But that doesnt mean its not as good or better than previous games.

 

I've done at least 3 full playthroughs and started countless others. So i thought i'd have gone through the whole party banter and that I would get no more laughs at their expanse. And then, on one of the countless pts i started that never finished, i was playing in nightmare difficulty, on a level 5 quizzy, and stupidly went through that place where druffy is. Waiting in one corner, a pack of level 8 wolves jumped me and my party. I thought i tried it, and Cass went down in seconds, my quizzy next, leaving varric and solas. Since the wolves went for their kin first (Solas;)), i took control of Varric and started running away. As soon as I started running away from then, Varric goes like: "I'm sorry Solas, but I'm running!!".

 

I laughed so hard at it, and was so surprised that the game aknowledged I was running away from a fight and that there was banter waiting to be triggered by it... But as i said, all this is watered down by the scope of the regions, and while u can get this little pearls here and there, you can then go on for 2h without even a whistle from your party :(


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#1370
Han Shot First

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Have seen enough TW3 vids to know that the longer cut-scenes are why I am thankful that these are not extant in DAI as opposed to ME3. I enjoy the 'G' in a RPG; not watching short films.

 

I prefer TW3's approach to Bioware's in DA:I, where most NPCs you encounter on side quests don't even have cinematic conversations. I think that was part of the reason why I found DA:I to be less immersive than DA:O or DA2.

 

 

 

I thought i tried it, and Cass went down in seconds, my quizzy next, leaving varric and solas. Since the wolves went for their kin first (Solas;)), i took control of Varric and started running away. As soon as I started running away from then, Varric goes like: "I'm sorry Solas, but I'm running!!".

 

I laughed so hard at it, and was so surprised that the game aknowledged I was running away from a fight and that there was banter waiting to be triggered by it... But as i said, all this is watered down by the scope of the regions, and while u can get this little pearls here and there, you can then go on for 2h without even a whistle from your party.

 

I'd love for games to acknowledge that more. A long time back while playing Gothic I had my character run away from a fight on a quest where he got set up and betrayed to get robbed by the quest givers, and was either under leveled or not geared properly. As he was doing his best Jesse Owens impression one of the attackers yelled out something like, "That's right...keep running you [...]!" It took me surprise and I had to stop playing because I was laughing so hard.


Modifié par BioWareMod07, 23 mai 2015 - 01:51 .
Removed inappropriate language

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#1371
Andraste_Reborn

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It should also be noted that Desire Demons' model were not the only demon model to not appear since we saw no model of the Sloth demon or Shade demon that I can recall. They have also not been removed from existence since they are mentioned including by Dorian and Solas.

 

There's even a Desire Demon in the game!

 

*waits patiently for someone to yell CHOICE SPIRIT!*

 

I'm inclined to agree that this stuff got cut because it wasn't necessary for the game and making things like Desire Demon models and brothels takes time. But even if they did take that stuff out because some people didn't like it, it wouldn't be censorship. It's no different to people saying 'we want more than one cave!' after DA2 came out and BioWare putting more caves in.


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#1372
Damdil

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The Witcher has me wanting to wander around because the world actually contains some interesting things/people and quests,  and the cut scenes in Witcher make Bioware's efforts look amateurish

 

I'll get to play The Witcher 3 this Sunday and I really hope that it's as good as you read everywhere. Concercing the game world, I was really disappointed by Inquisition. It really lacks this characteristical feeling a lot of games deliever with their world. It's simply too static and after a really short time, every urge to explore was gone for me because it's just boring to run around from quest marker to quest marker. It's really a joke that even caves are marked on the map. Last but not least, due to the ridiculous easiness of the game, you can just run around carelessly because you'll kill everything in your way easily.

 

I don't know if you guys know Gothic or Gothic II, which were (and in a smaller amount still are) really popular here in Germany. These games were released 2000 and 2001 and it's really astonishing how natural the world there feels even now. Even if you're just running around, exploring every corner of the world you could easily find your death but also great items in the most unanticipated places. You really had to use your wits, as especially in the beginning every fight was really hard, but you could often trick or avoid enemies and still reach your objective. If you're clever, you could also often talk around fights or even only get certain quests if you choose the right dialogue options. And more or less nothing was marked on your map, so you really have to listen to the guys giving you quests because otherwise you simply won't find the right location. 


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#1373
Shechinah

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*snip*

 

Not to mention there were five Desire Demons encountered in Dragon Age 2 counting DLC so I'm inclined to consider it more than fine that they were bumped down the list of demons up for appearing in favor of new ones being made and added to the lore.     

 

I did consider Imshael but since he does not use the model and there's the whole thing about him, I thought I'd leave him out.
 


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#1374
Greetsme

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I'll get to play The Witcher 3 this Sunday and I really hope that it's as good as you read everywhere. Concercing the game world, I was really disappointed by Inquisition. It really lacks this characteristical feeling a lot of games deliever with their world. It's simply too static and after a really short time, every urge to explore was gone for me because it's just boring to run around from quest marker to quest marker. It's really a joke that even caves are marked on the map. Last but not least, due to the ridiculous easiness of the game, you can just run around carelessly because you'll kill everything in your way easily.

 

 

It takes a little time to set up your controls and optimize your graphics to what best suits you, but once into the game it pulls you in like a dwarf sized black hole.  The lay of the land is far more immersive and believable than DA:I, and overall graphics are outstanding.  I find the keyboard and mouse performs very well, and you find yourself quite comfortable with the game play.

 

I would recommend Witcher 3 to anyone, and also tell them it is worth the asking price.


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#1375
Dreadstruck

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I'll get to play The Witcher 3 this Sunday and I really hope that it's as good as you read everywhere. Concercing the game world, I was really disappointed by Inquisition. It really lacks this characteristical feeling a lot of games deliever with their world. It's simply too static and after a really short time, every urge to explore was gone for me because it's just boring to run around from quest marker to quest marker. It's really a joke that even caves are marked on the map. Last but not least, due to the ridiculous easiness of the game, you can just run around carelessly because you'll kill everything in your way easily.

 

I don't know if you guys know Gothic or Gothic II, which were (and in a smaller amount still are) really popular here in Germany. These games were released 2000 and 2001 and it's really astonishing how natural the world there feels even now. Even if you're just running around, exploring every corner of the world you could easily find your death but also great items in the most unanticipated places. You really had to use your wits, as especially in the beginning every fight was really hard, but you could often trick or avoid enemies and still reach your objective. If you're clever, you could also often talk around fights or even only get certain quests if you choose the right dialogue options. And more or less nothing was marked on your map, so you really have to listen to the guys giving you quests because otherwise you simply won't find the right location. 

 

Ah, I loved the Gothic series, especially the first two games and the expansion. I'd say Witcher 3 is more in spirit of the Gothic games with a bit of Skyrim open world on top of it. You'll not be dissapointed. :)