Like it or not, cities are part of our societies at least since the Bronze age and are therefore key for cultural representation (an aspect of it at least). When developers want to communicate their fictional culture in a nation, cities are a key aspect.
I was pretty satisfied with provincial Orlais, for what it's worth. The zones Elhanan mentions are lovely, especially the Emerald Graves and Emprise du Lion.
I was disappointed with VR. It's been built up in past games and the surrounding lore so much. The prospect of actually seeing it in a game with the tech to do it justice was so enticing. And I just like exploring urban areas. If I recall, the very thing that made me decide that yeah, I did want to play TW3 was a panning gif of Novigrad, showing off its size.
Haven't forgotten, but can't imagine why. They're so vital.
I don't know how Toussaint is depicted in the books exactly, but the picture I'm getting from B&W suggests to me that CDPR's vision will be very much inspired by (and will possibly be an answer to) Bioware's Orlais. I think it's gonna be really interesting to see.
Toussaint refers to 'All Saints' Day (La Toussaint) in french. Beauclair, capital city of Toussaint. = two french words : Beau (beautiful)+Clair(clear). Warm weather, mountainous country + vineyards everywhere with character names like 'Baron de Peyrac-Peyran', 'Viscount Julian(he is totally badass:P)' and famous wine Toussaint Est Est. I'm pretty sure CDPR got enough real-world inspirations to bring Toussaint into TW3.
As for the artistic concept of Beauclair, CDPR has already put it in the 'A night to remember' trailer! BTW, it is also the first trailer of B&W in principle.
http://forums.cdproj...r-trailer/page4
Can be key; not a given.
That would be the case if Orlais and Orlesians were depicted in a satisfactory manner in Inquisition. They weren't. To be short, the Empress is a lady-in-distress, Gaspard gives up on his cause because of reasons and, in the end, BW even had Josy provide an excuse for the great Orlesians "players" not doing anything while the events of the Ball unfolded "Because selfishness, and chaos would have benefited them". Then there's the outfits.
Yeah, no, Orlesians are depicted as idiots wearing stupid things, and, in my opinion, they should have been depicted as people who just think differently but can not be called "stupid" for it. Extravagant, possibly deceitful and self-centered, but not just idiots who forget important documents around a castle filled with potential "enemies"
Having said this, they should have at least provided a Denerim-like area, it wouldn't even have mattered if it stayed true to the rest of the game's shallowness when it comes to zones, the relevance of it would have been more than enough to make it awesome to explore
The best thing would have been something like Orzammar. An area that gives insight on the story and beliefs of a different-thinking population without the need of reading the codex
Toussaint refers to 'All Saints' Day (La Toussaint) in french. Beauclair, capital city of Toussaint. = two french words : Beau (beautiful)+Clair(clear). Warm weather, mountainous country + vineyards everywhere with character names like 'Baron de Peyrac-Peyran', 'Viscount Julian(he is totally badass:P)' and famous wine Toussaint Est Est. I'm pretty sure CDPR got enough real-world inspirations to bring Toussaint into TW3.
I get that. I was specifically referring to the courtly, chivalric parody aspect. If everyone is a foppish caricature in the books too, then I stand corrected. As it is, it looks like CDPR might be taking some influence from Bioware in this case.
That would be the case if Orlais and Orlesians were depicted in a satisfactory manner in Inquisition. They weren't. To be short, the Empress is a lady-in-distress, Gaspard gives up on his cause because of reasons and, in the end, BW even had Josy provide an excuse for the great Orlesians "players" not doing anything while the events of the Ball unfolded "Because selfishness, and chaos would have benefited them". Then there's the outfits.
Yeah, no, Orlesians are depicted as idiots wearing stupid things, and, in my opinion, they should have been depicted as people who just think differently but can not be called "stupid" for it. Extravagant, possibly deceitful and self-centered, but not just idiots who forget important documents around a castle filled with potential "enemies"
Having said this, they should have at least provided a Denerim-like area, it wouldn't even have mattered if it stayed true to the rest of the game's shallowness when it comes to zones, the relevance of it would have been more than enough to make it awesome to explore
The best thing would have been something like Orzammar. An area that gives insight on the story and beliefs of a different-thinking population without the need of reading the codex
I get that. I was specifically referring to the courtly, chivalric parody aspect. If everyone is a foppish caricature in the books too, then I stand corrected. As it is, it looks like CDPR might be taking some influence from Bioware.
I would say CDPR takes most influences from real life southern France and Italy villages. BTW, those fully armored knights-errants (and their horses) of Toussiant do put fluffy words like "On my honor! Glory! Vow of chivalry" in almost every sentence in the books.
Some pics of Toussiant.
Some pics of Toussiant.
Breathtaking!
I would say CDPR takes most influences from real life southern France and Italy villages. BTW, those fully armored knights-errants (and their horses) of Toussiant do put fluffy words like "On my honor! Glory! Vow of chivalry" in almost every sentence in the books.
Some pics of Toussiant.
Either way, it'll be a lovely place to put down roots with my red-headed forever girl.
Breathtaking!
Nah, CDPR is lazy. They just photoshoped several photos of Provence and call it a day! 
Either way, it'll be a lovely place to put down roots with my red-headed forever girl.
Unfortunately, that hag is a chestnut, even her hair color is fake. I feel for you, bro.
Unfortunately, that hag is a chestnut, even her hair color is fake. I feel for you, bro.
Maybe in the questionably canon tie in novels.
I see some things haven't changed. You're still telling people how their opinion is wrong and whatever your is right. It's great that you're completely satisfied with Orlais. I am glad they made it appealing for you. It fell short for me and what I had hoped for. In my opinion it felt empty and without any charm and atmosphere.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
I think when it comes to cities like Orlais not being all they could have been - I think some of us would just about cry if we knew the things that had to be cut or trimmed down so as they could get the game running on the old consoles. We know they had to alter things so they could get the game working on those systems.
And after all that they ditched those customers half way through anyway.
Your probably right. I am more than willing to concede that a lot of DA:I's problems are because of trying to fit it into every console. Because we know they can do cities very well. Denerim was great.
Still not gonna pull the trigger on the next game on day one though.
Please bomb, just leave wham-a-wham alone, it just needs some swish-a-swash-a-swunks.
Speak for yourself, I have always enjoyed Bomb's masterful dissection of He Who Must Not Be Named's nonsense.
I thought Denerim has more to offer than Val Roreux over all, but I was sort of in peace with it.... until... i saw Novigrad. Then I swear Lelianna was telling me pork pies and tripes in DAO.
Well, so much for me looking forward to anything CDPR-related at E3 this year. 
http://www.eurogamer...7-e3-cd-projekt
Well, so much for me looking forward to anything CDPR-related at E3 this year.
But isn't there still a mystery 2016 game from CDPR to expect?
But isn't there still a mystery 2016 game from CDPR to expect?
Yeah, the articles mention that may be what they are showing this year. But we know nothing about it, so there's nothing necessarily to look forward to.
I was pretty satisfied with provincial Orlais, for what it's worth. The zones Elhanan mentions are lovely, especially the Emerald Graves and Emprise du Lion.
I was disappointed with VR. It's been built up in past games and the surrounding lore so much. The prospect of actually seeing it in a game with the tech to do it justice was so enticing. And I just like exploring urban areas. If I recall, the very thing that made me decide that yeah, I did want to play TW3 was a panning gif of Novigrad, showing off its size.
Haven't forgotten, but can't imagine why. They're so vital.
I don't know how Toussaint is depicted in the books exactly, but the picture I'm getting from B&W suggests to me that CDPR's vision will be very much inspired by (and will possibly be an answer to) Bioware's Orlais. I think it's gonna be really interesting to see.
I liked Emerald Graves and Emprise du Lion for what they are, but they are certainly not cultural hubs. They're lovely, even hauntingly in some places--but if I went there pre-war, I'd get a country feel for them. A nice place to host a garden party or a picnic or a hunting party, but I would certainly not expect the same if I were going to Val Royeaux. The Palace is the center of everything--as all palaces are. They represent the ruler, the artisans, the country's wealth, it's culture. I was expecting Val Royeaux to be ...well at least on the same scale as say, Novigrad. Especially for a capital. (I know you're not discounting any of this and you were also let down by VR I am just blathering.)
Like it or not, cities are part of our societies at least since the Bronze age and are therefore key for cultural representation (an aspect of it at least). When developers want to communicate their fictional culture in a nation, cities are a key aspect.
I agree with you strongly.
Speak for yourself, I have always enjoyed Bomb's masterful dissection of He Who Must Not Be Named's nonsense.
lol I thank you, but engaging him really isn't something I should do. You can't have any sort of valuable conversation or debate with him because he doesn't allow for other's opinions. I have discussed my disappointments with lots of people on this board that truly love DAI, but at least could understand where I was coming from. I have discussed TW with people who absolutely hate it, and I feel it's one of the greatest series out there, but I can at least understand that they're disappointed, even if I am not. He doesn't. It's only "DAI made me 100% satisfied and if you don't feel that way, you're wrong!" While sometimes I do like calling him out on his silliness, I really like this board. I really like all of you. I don't want that to go away because I argued with someone who can't see past his own nose. I have tried giving him multiple chances, but it seems that's his only channel. So, ignore it is. Again.
I liked Emerald Graves and Emprise du Lion for what they are, but they are certainly not cultural hubs. They're lovely, even hauntingly in some places--but if I went there pre-war, I'd get a country feel for them. A nice place to host a garden party or a picnic or a hunting party, but I would certainly not expect the same if I were going to Val Royeaux. The Palace is the center of everything--as all palaces are. They represent the ruler, the artisans, the country's wealth, it's culture. I was expecting Val Royeaux to be ...well at least on the same scale as say, Novigrad. (I know you're not discounting that and you were also let down by VR.) As I would think so for any capital.
I agree with you strongly.
lol I thank you, but engaging him really isn't something I should do. You can't have any sort of valuable conversation or debate with him because he doesn't allow for other's opinions. I have discussed my disappointments with lots of people on this board that truly love DAI, but at least could understand where I was coming from. I have discussed TW with people who absolutely hate it, and I feel it's one of the greatest series out there, but I can at least understand that they're disappointed, even if I am not. He doesn't. It's only "DAI made me 100% satisfied and if you don't feel that way, you're wrong!" That is his only channel. While sometimes I do like calling him out on his silliness, I really like this board. I really like all of you. I don't want that to go away because I argued with someone who can't see past his own nose. So, ignore it is. Again.
Here's the env artists talking about their approach to creating Toussaint.
Speaking of CDPR being inspired by Bioware, I'm genuinely surprised, looking back, that we never got a DA easter egg. I know there are people on the team who liked Origins, and they said ME2 was an inspiration for its cinematic approach. But I can't think of a single Bioware reference.
I remember being so excited to see Orlais. I was left wanting.
Totally agreed. I never really felt like we were meaningfully engaging with Orlais in Inquisition; it wasn't a living, breathing nation worth fighting for, just a series of very pretty backdrops on which to set a fight scene. The world-building really took a turn for the worse in Inquisition, but the shallowness with which Orlais was presented and that we could interact with it is perhaps my biggest disappointment.
Witcher 3's Rock Trolls are the best! Genuinely hilarious!
Absolutely, they're one of the best parts of the game.
Crazy idea for a crossover fic: Witcher 3 Rock Trolls interacting with the Grand Oak. What an encounter that would be! 
Like it or not, cities are part of our societies at least since the Bronze age and are therefore key for cultural representation (an aspect of it at least). When developers want to communicate their fictional culture in a nation, cities are a key aspect.
Very true. It's especially important in the context of an RPG, where major cities (Denerim, Whiterun, New Vegas, etc) act as important quest hubs and strategic power centers in the story. If the fate of any particular place is decided over the course of the narrative, then you need to make sure the place in question is worth caring about.
That would be the case if Orlais and Orlesians were depicted in a satisfactory manner in Inquisition. They weren't. To be short, the Empress is a lady-in-distress, Gaspard gives up on his cause because of reasons and, in the end, BW even had Josy provide an excuse for the great Orlesians "players" not doing anything while the events of the Ball unfolded "Because selfishness, and chaos would have benefited them". Then there's the outfits.
Yeah, no, Orlesians are depicted as idiots wearing stupid things, and, in my opinion, they should have been depicted as people who just think differently but can not be called "stupid" for it. Extravagant, possibly deceitful and self-centered, but not just idiots who forget important documents around a castle filled with potential "enemies"
Having said this, they should have at least provided a Denerim-like area, it wouldn't even have mattered if it stayed true to the rest of the game's shallowness when it comes to zones, the relevance of it would have been more than enough to make it awesome to explore
The best thing would have been something like Orzammar. An area that gives insight on the story and beliefs of a different-thinking population without the need of reading the codex
Very well said (seriously, the failure of "Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts" is something I could go on about all day; suffice it to say, it was a very poorly written quest).
And I must say that Bioware did an excellent job with both Denerim and Orzammar in Origins. While not as detailed as Novigrad (don't think they had the tech or budget available to do something like that at the time), both cities felt very fleshed out and actualized, and that made us care about their fates. The climax of the game wouldn't have been nearly as strong if we hadn't had a chance to explore Denerim ourselves, to meet the people there, to form attachments and be shown why its survival was so important to Ferelden.
I've used this analogy elsewhere, but it's like the Batman movies. The Gotham City of the Nolan films felt like a real place, so the audience therefore became emotionally invested in its survival, and thus in Batman's mission. Same thing with Denerim, but not so much with Val Royeaux or Orlais in general. A stereotype is not worth sacrificing for.
Either way, it'll be a lovely place to put down roots with my red-headed forever girl.
Yes, I'm certain Leliana will love it down there
Your probably right. I am more than willing to concede that a lot of DA:I's problems are because of trying to fit it into every console. Because we know they can do cities very well. Denerim was great.
Still not gonna pull the trigger on the next game on day one though.
Good advice for us all. My 'pre-orders' will be kept as the occasion kickstarter I decide to back. At least my dollars contribute directly to the project.
It will be interesting to see what lessons ME:A learned from DA. The ME guys really don't have the excuses that the DA guys could use such as working on outdated hardware and learning the FB engine tools.
I guess the DA guys will probably get another crack at creating a city if they do Minrathous in the next major DA game. CDPR has already set the bar pretty bloody high though.
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