15847 réponses à ce sujet

[panzerwzh]

CC doesn't make your game better.

 

Blank slate vs established character both have their own advantages and disadvantages. The issue with blank slate protagonist in BW games is that ever since Origins they failed to allow you to roleplay and to turn your character into someone fundementaily different, into someone you could actually roleplay, the dialogue wheel didn't made things any better either.

 

Regarding awards, Inquisition barely had any huge contenders to go up against in 2014, Shadow of Mordor, Alien: Isolation, Dark Souls II and some Nintendo titles were barely even mentioned including Wolfenstein: TNO. Meanwhile Witcher went up against famous titles that have been around for more than decades like Metal Gear and Fallout, keep in mind the TW franchise was still more or less underrated before the game was released.

Don't tease wham-a-wham!

2014 is one of the worst year for PC games, while 2015 is one of the best.

[Elhanan]

DAI and TW3 are different games, yes. I don't why pointing out the city feature as a comparison with the CC. They are different features on different parts of the game.
TW3 has a more fixed protagonist, while DAI has one with more options. It's not about one being a con and the other a pro. They're different design choices when creating a character, which allows the developers to have different kind of protagonists. On the other hand, TW3 has a better world design then DAI, and it's not just about cities. Even the villages, and DAI had some, are better made in the former then the latter, regardless of the city problem.
Also, about your previous post on not wanting city completely in the game, fair enough, though it does make the world of DA seem more...fake, though I'm not sure if it's the right world. At least for me. Did you have problems with DAO having Orzammar and Denerim as well?
 
As a side note,I don't see why you posted the comparison about DAI and TW3 at that point, since people where comparing TW1 cities' rapresentation with DAI's.
 
 
@KBomb: I think some reasons for DAI's lacking of companions' mounts are, other then pathing, the old gen limiting what they could (other then taking some resources from development). I hope it'll get better in future games....if Bioware won't decide to cut the feature.

AS I mentioned long ago, these are different kinds of games, esp Action vs Pause mechanics, and Open World vs Zones.

As far as World building, I enjoy the variety seen in DAI; the varied environs are extremely appealing to me. TW3 may also have it, though I have not seen it. And DA has avoided the issues associated with Day/ Night cycles (eg; closed shops) thru use of static encounter times. Again, different design choices; not better world building.

And it is the silly comparison of cities posted earlier that spurred my post, as one should not compare an open city with a restricted Merchant quarter. Clearly not the same; context removed for whatever reason.

P.S. TW3 did not win the DICE GOTY Award; went to FO4, I believe.

[vbibbi]

Honestly, the cities in the BG games were done better. There is so much hidden stuff in those cities for people who like to dig a little deeper.
I've played through both recently.

Except for Saradush! the city that can somehow fit onto one screen.




I think part of the difference in Bio and CDPR cities is that Bioware tries to fill their urban areas with NPCs who are all characters rather than blank faces walking in a circle. TW limits its relevant NPCs to tie directly into quests we already have and the remaining 90% are nameless. And this is just a different approach by the companies, neither better or worse. I respect Bioware for wanting to fill their world with memorable characters and not just link us from quest stage A to stage B. This comes at the cost of having less NPCs around. CDPR is more focused on creating a living world where we only participate in a small segment of it. This is more realistic but also means a lot of the content is more generic filler (most of the houses in cities will have items we can take but no named NPCs or story relevant content in them).

It just shows the difference in the foci of the companies and their different approaches to world building. I appreciate having both so I can enjoy the different aspects of each.


My dream would be for an international exchange program between the two where we have employees temporarily swap so that each company can build on the strengths of the other.

[The Hierophant]

AS I mentioned long ago, these are different kinds of games, esp Action vs Pause mechanics, and Open World vs Zones.

As far as World building, I enjoy the variety seen in DAI; the varied environs are extremely appealing to me. TW3 may also have it, though I have not seen it. And DA has avoided the issues associated with Day/ Night cycles (eg; closed shops) thru use of static encounter times. Again, different design choices; not better world building.

And it is the silly comparison of cities posted earlier that spurred my post, as one should not compare an open city with a restricted Merchant quarter. Clearly not the same; context removed for whatever reason.

P.S. TW3 did not win the DICE GOTY Award; went to FO4, I believe.

I'm not seeing an issue with comparing open world maps versus zones asides from their size. DAI beats out the TW3 in the number of varied environments such as deserts, plains, and Jungles, but falls short due to a noticeable lack of detail in them, and tech limitations. Mind you, you'd figure that due to the size of TW3's open world maps that there would a noticeable lack of detail but it's not true. In TW3 the foliage sways back, and forth in the wind, casts shadows that move appropriately, and is affected by the rising/setting sun too. There's also varied weather effects such as wind, fog, rain/thunderstorms, and snowfall that change the mood of maps. The setting/rising sun affects visibility and adds danger to exploration like glaring sunlight nearly blinding you as an archgriffin lunges at Geralt. Then there's the swimming aspect too such as combat and the exploration of underwater environments.

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

From what i remember about TW3's merchants is that while some adhere to a programmed daily schedule, and close shop at 8:00 pm until 6:00 am, there's a lot of 711 type merchants too so access to items isn't that much of an issue. Plus the meditation mechanic trivializes the issue of off work merchants. 

 

CDPR's programming and placement of NPCs is on another level too. They're more numerous which helps to create an illusion of moderately/heavily populated communities, they either fight, cower or run away from danger (Geralt, bandits, monsters, wild animals), can be killed, interact with one another, can be bumped into and responds accordingly, responds when caught stealing, seeks cover during rain, and performs a variety of tasks in succession throughout the ingame day. All of that versus the majority of DA's npcs. Think of Novigrad's town's square versus Val Royeaux.

 

In terms of crafting environments CDPR is superior on a technical level while Bioware is superior in providing variety.

[Farci Reprimer]

I think part of the difference in Bio and CDPR cities is that Bioware tries to fill their urban areas with NPCs who are all characters rather than blank faces walking in a circle.

 

Huh?

 

I think we remember populated areas in Bioware games very differently because I sure dont remember citizens of Denerim and these ugly abominations below from Kirkwall being nothing more than static ghosts that you couldnt interract in any possible way.

 

Meanwhile, even in the first Witcher game you could interact with all the npcs in wizima, push them out of the way and try to talk to them. Sure, most of the time they would just repeat couple of lines of dialogue but that sure is a lot more than anything you can do to most of the npcs in Val Royeaux. You would be so lucky if you DID see an npc walking in circle in Bioware game.

[Elhanan]

Yep; have seen the trees doubled over from the breeze like in NWN2. And I have seen the time cycle as in Skyrim. And while the weather varies, DAI also has smoke, fog, rain, etc, though it remains static. However, this again was a design made to set the proper mood for a specific setting; did not want sunshine to spoil a haunted swamp or like event. In Crestwood, it alters after the curse is lifted.

And time cycles are fine like in Skyrim, but can be annoying, too. Static merchants are always available, but missing the passing time can also be irritating. Design choices; each Player will have a varied take on them.

And I have seen the NPC's react in TW3, and some of it can be entertaining. However, having a guard or merchant go through the same vocal routine repeatedly can cause eye rolling.

Varied design choices for different games. However, due to the mechanics and content of which are key to me, I prefer the Bioware product; pass on the TW series.

[Elhanan]

Huh?
 
I think we remember populated areas in Bioware games very differently because I sure dont remember citizens of Denerim and these ugly abominations below from Kirkwall being nothing more than static ghosts that you couldnt interract in any possible way.
 
Meanwhile, even in the first Witcher game you could interact with all the npcs in wizima, push them out of the way and try to talk to them. Sure, most of the time they would just repeat couple of lines of dialogue but that sure is a lot more than anything you can do to most of the npcs in Val Royeaux. You would be so lucky if you DID see an npc walking in circle in Bioware game.

Both the Merchant Quarter and Alienage in Denerim had populated areas, and while I agree the 6 month release of DA2 was premature and most Elves were truly alien, Qunari, Flemeth, and others saw improvement.

And in TW1, one could collect sex cards; a decision which has since been corrected. And while I would prefer to see NPC's get out of the way, I do not mind missing needless conversations. Still pass.

[KBomb]

AS I mentioned long ago, these are different kinds of games, esp Action vs Pause mechanics, and Open World vs Zones.

As far as World building, I enjoy the variety seen in DAI; the varied environs are extremely appealing to me. TW3 may also have it, though I have not seen it. And DA has avoided the issues associated with Day/ Night cycles (eg; closed shops) thru use of static encounter times. Again, different design choices; not better world building.

And it is the silly comparison of cities posted earlier that spurred my post, as one should not compare an open city with a restricted Merchant quarter. Clearly not the same; context removed for whatever reason.

P.S. TW3 did not win the DICE GOTY Award; went to FO4, I believe.

TW3 has lots of varying landscapes and they're appropriate for the area. Swamps, marshes, snow cap vistas, lush forests, barren icy hills. It all gives a really good sense of belonging in the world. I thought DAI did a great job with their environs, too. Except areas that are populated. Though they had NPC's in them, they felt quite lifeless, imo. 

 

As for the comparisons of cities, if you thought it was so silly, maybe you shouldn't have partaken in it. Val Royeaux was restricted to a small market where you couldn't explore. The only open doors were the ones that led to a store. The crux to the argument was that it offered little compared to what's been done. For instance--it's the Summer Bazaar. Make the open markets reflect that. Those open markets looked no different than the ones in any other place. The cafe, which is famous was just... lackluster. It was pretty, but had no life. 

 

Let us compare Novigrad's Market with Val Royeaux's market. Both are small market areas, the center of activity, and are more fairly compared. 

 

Here is Novigrad's.

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Now, the Summer Bazaar.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

The Summer Bazaar should be teeming with life. It's Val Royeaux! Once I think I counted thirty-something doors and you could only enter under half of them. (it's somewhere within this thread, I did an analysis). The famous cafe there consist of a bard and some tables. It had the potential to be an awesome place to go, but it just came out pretty blah. 

 

And you're right, TW3 did not win the DICE GOTY year award, which, don't know why, it eats FO4 for breakfast, but that is my opinion. However, it did take home three DICE Awards including Outstanding Achievement in Game Design, Outstanding Achievement in Story and one for Technical. But with well over 800 awards, 250 of them being Game of the Year--I don't think CDPR is hurt by it. 

 

 

 

[vbibbi]

Huh?

 

I think we remember populated areas in Bioware games very differently because I sure dont remember citizens of Denerim and these ugly abominations below from Kirkwall being nothing more than static ghosts that you couldnt interract in any possible way.

 

Meanwhile, even in the first Witcher game you could interact with all the npcs in wizima, push them out of the way and try to talk to them. Sure, most of the time they would just repeat couple of lines of dialogue but that sure is a lot more than anything you can do to most of the npcs in Val Royeaux. You would be so lucky if you DID see an npc walking in circle in Bioware game.

 

There are NPCs we can't interact with, yes, but in DAO and DA2, all interactive people were characters to a greater or lesser degree. They were all distinct people rather than "weapons merchant." The majority of NPCs in TW3 were generic. The merchants I remember are the guy in Novigrad who has the quest about being in debt to the thieves guild and then can craft the highest level swords, the dwarf and his "assistant" in the baron's camp who make the highest level armors. Some of the herbalist and potion merchants were also memorable to some extent. But they were all specifically tied to quests. In DAO and DA2 the merchants wouldn't necessarily be tied to quests, they were just there to add to the world.

 

DAI does have the problem of nameless NPCs, though. None of the merchants in Val Royeaux were memorable except the one with the nug statue. But the merchants in Orzammar talked to us about Bhelen and Harrowmont, dust town, the deep roads, etc. They filled in the world.

 

And every building we were able to enter in a DA game had content specific to that building. Whether it is a unique codex, a hidden quest to start, an NPC needed for a quest. That's why, IMO, Bioware cities and towns are smaller, because they want to have every interactive person and place have a reason to be there rather than just to fill space.

[Xetykins]

These cuties are all you need in a market. Honestly, there's a boatload of cool and funny stuff going on in Denerim. The hungry chanter whom I did not discover till 4 pts later

[straykat]

I still like Denerim ... It's small, but it's got personality (i.e. funny npcs). 

[KBomb]

I liked Denerim too.

[Dreadstruck]

Heh, Denerim still holds a spot in my heart (from soundtrack to ambient NPCs). But I am also using the Improved Atmosphere mod which gives the city more life as well, so there's that.

 

(And I just realized I've never even touched the Slim Couldry questline in Denerim. Gotta rectify that after my finals are done! )

 

Also, I am not sure if talking about awards is even fair in this case. Witcher has like 251 GOTYs and I am pretty sure that makes it the most awarded game in history. Not only it topped The Last of Us, but even the "legendary"-tier games like Skyrim, Red Ded Redemption, Half-Life 2 or Uncharted 2.

 

TW3 is just a whole different monster altogether.

[KBomb]

Heh, Denerim still holds a spot in my heart (from soundtrack to ambient NPCs). But I am also using the Improved Atmosphere mod which gives the city more life as well, so there's that.

(And I just realized I've never even touched the Slim Couldry questline in Denerim. Gotta rectify that after my finals are done! )

Also, I am not sure if talking about awards is even fair in this case. Witcher has like 251 GOTYs and I am pretty sure that makes it the most awarded game in history. Not only it topped The Last of Us, but even the "legendary"-tier games like Skyrim, Red Ded Redemption, Half-Life 2 or Uncharted 2.

TW3 is just a whole different monster altogether.

It truly is.

I was happy for the awards DAI received. I just hope that in spite of them, they listen to feedback and improve where needed. I want that for any game company. The Dragon Age series will always be special to me and it's the reason I want it to shine right alongside it's competition, not just merely keep up.

[ThePhoenixKing]

Yeah, I understand that. This being my first go, I don't really have anything to compare it to, but some friends of mine who have been with the series from the beginning think it's one of the weaker in the series. I do see the flaws, but all in all, it's been pretty fun. I love designing my own settlements and robots.

Due to life, I am pretty behind on games. I just finished Tell Tale's Game of Thrones before I started FO4. I hate it when life interrupts gaming!

 

Yeah, Fallout 4 was disappointing, particularly with the story elements. You definitely need to try out New Vegas, at the very least. While the game engine has certainly shown its age, and the "Bugthesda" label is well-earned, otherwise, it's a really good title. The combat is very good, with lots of weapon variety, the central conflict is solid and your companion characters are all well-written. It also has some consistently excellent DLC with a overarcing narrative linking them together, which is kinda neat.

 

When TW1 released, it is a unique monster. Extremely hardware demanding, tons of glitches and shortcomings (potato face+horriable voice+stupid combat system) but also delivery excellent story, dark and mature world setting, gray moral choices and great ambitions (day/night cycle, random weathers, large scale city with NPCs that move, sleep and hide under roof in rainy days! et tu DAI????) and that soundtrack is simply amazing! 

 

What really irritate me is that since TW1, CDPR keep making their RPG better and better. However, since DAO and ME1, Bioware tried everything (action movies like ME2 and DA2;MMO style grinding in DAI and FPS to be ME3) instead of a decent RPG.  

 

Sadly true. It does feel like Bioware's sliding back in quality when they should be moving forward, which is a total shame.

 

CC doesn't make your game better.

 

Blank slate vs established character both have their own advantages and disadvantages. The issue with blank slate protagonist in BW games is that ever since Origins they failed to allow you to roleplay and to turn your character into someone fundementaily different, into someone you could actually roleplay, the dialogue wheel didn't made things any better either.

 

Regarding awards, Inquisition barely had any huge contenders to go up against in 2014, Shadow of Mordor, Alien: Isolation, Dark Souls II and some Nintendo titles were barely even mentioned including Wolfenstein: TNO. Meanwhile Witcher went up against famous titles that have been around for more than decades like Metal Gear and Fallout, keep in mind the TW franchise was still more or less underrated before the game was released.

 

To be fair, both Shadow of Morder and Wolfenstein: The New Order are really great games. The latter in particular really should have been GOTY 2014, as far as I'm concerned, if only for the chance to fight LASER SPACE-NAZIS ON THE MOON.

 

There are NPCs we can't interact with, yes, but in DAO and DA2, all interactive people were characters to a greater or lesser degree. They were all distinct people rather than "weapons merchant." The majority of NPCs in TW3 were generic. The merchants I remember are the guy in Novigrad who has the quest about being in debt to the thieves guild and then can craft the highest level swords, the dwarf and his "assistant" in the baron's camp who make the highest level armors. Some of the herbalist and potion merchants were also memorable to some extent. But they were all specifically tied to quests. In DAO and DA2 the merchants wouldn't necessarily be tied to quests, they were just there to add to the world.

 

DAI does have the problem of nameless NPCs, though. None of the merchants in Val Royeaux were memorable except the one with the nug statue. But the merchants in Orzammar talked to us about Bhelen and Harrowmont, dust town, the deep roads, etc. They filled in the world.

 

And every building we were able to enter in a DA game had content specific to that building. Whether it is a unique codex, a hidden quest to start, an NPC needed for a quest. That's why, IMO, Bioware cities and towns are smaller, because they want to have every interactive person and place have a reason to be there rather than just to fill space.

 

Agreed. It's amazing how even a few more engaging NPCs can really flush out the setting, huh?

 

I still like Denerim ... It's small, but it's got personality (i.e. funny npcs). 

 

Absolutely. Denerim was a place worth fighting for.

[vbibbi]

Heh, Denerim still holds a spot in my heart (from soundtrack to ambient NPCs). But I am also using the Improved Atmosphere mod which gives the city more life as well, so there's that.
 
(And I just realized I've never even touched the Slim Couldry questline in Denerim. Gotta rectify that after my finals are done! )
 
Also, I am not sure if talking about awards is even fair in this case. Witcher has like 251 GOTYs and I am pretty sure that makes it the most awarded game in history. Not only it topped The Last of Us, but even the "legendary"-tier games like Skyrim, Red Ded Redemption, Half-Life 2 or Uncharted 2.
 
TW3 is just a whole different monster altogether.

What does the improved atmosphere mod add? I unfortunately had the PS3 version so never modded the game. Mods are why I'm still playing Baldur's Gate, though, so I almost wish I had the PC version of DAO.

[FKA_Servo]

What does the improved atmosphere mod add? I unfortunately had the PS3 version so never modded the game. Mods are why I'm still playing Baldur's Gate, though, so I almost wish I had the PC version of DAO.

Oh god, you really should, if only for the "skip the fade" mod.

But seriously, you should get it. It'll run on a toaster and some of the mods available are terrific. You can reliably get the ultimate edition on steam sales for around $7 usd.

[panzerwzh]

It is on, B&W is finally here!

[slimgrin]

I found DA:O to be a bigger pain to mod than TW3, but fortunately it doesn't need much modding to make it sing. There's a couple of great toolbar mods plus skip the fade and you're good to go. 

 

Inquisition was only 20 usd on Origin so I bought it. Not pleased with the character creator. I can't give my elf a decent profile, she looks likes a prize fighter with a broken nose.  Graphics are nice and I like the 'hold mouse to strike' mechanic. The beginning embraces that cliche I never tire of: our hero is assumed guilty and in shackles. Oblivion, Skyrim, TW2, Dishonored...it's funny how many games do this, but it works well. It does have some awkward dialogue, especially from Cassandra. 

[KBomb]

It is on, B&W is finally here!

What is this? Where is this from?

[panzerwzh]

What is this? Where is this from?

PS4 version B&W is available for pre-load.

https://www.reddit.c...eloaded_on_ps4/

[KBomb]

PS4 version B&W is available for pre-load.
https://www.reddit.c...eloaded_on_ps4/

I don't think Xbox does that. I can't recall any games being pre-load. Do you know?

Edit: Just checked, it does! Yes. Thanks, Pan. Had you not shown this, I would have never bothered to look. And Jesus, 15.03GB! Thank goodness it does preload!

[Dreadstruck]

What does the improved atmosphere mod add? I unfortunately had the PS3 version so never modded the game. Mods are why I'm still playing Baldur's Gate, though, so I almost wish I had the PC version of DAO.

 

I am super bad at explaining things so I guess I'll just borrow the header from the mod.

 

Feel free checking the page as well, for Before and After pictures etc.

 

http://www.nexusmods...nage/mods/577/?

 

"When you played Dragon Age, were you disappointed by the lack of life in towns? Were you bothered by the fact that most ambient NPC’s after Ostagar refused to move a muscle and were instead just hopelessly standing in one place? Did you enjoy hearing your companions interact with each other, but were disappointed there were so few instances in which they would engage in conversation? How about more variety when it comes to your own equipment and also that of the NPC’s? Wanted the bodies of your victims to remain after you slew them?

This mod attempts to negate all of these shortcomings, and much more. And the best part about it? It's modular; you can use everything it has to offer or only a small portion of it."

 

 

It is on, B&W is finally here!

 

Lucky dog! I am still waiting for my pre-ordered Limited Edition for PC which should come sometime next week. On the bright side, they're coming with the Nilfgaardian and Northern Kingdoms Gwent decks as well, so my RL collection can be finally complete.

[panzerwzh]

I don't think Xbox does that. I can't recall any games being pre-load. Do you know?

Edit: Just checked, it does! Yes. Thanks, Pan. Had you not shown this, I would have never bothered to look. And Jesus, 15.03GB! Thank goodness it does preload!

Happy to help.

Lucky! I am still waiting for my pre-ordered Limited Edition on PC. Getting those Niflgaardian and Northen Kingdoms Gwent cards as well, so my RL collection can be finally complete.

I have PC,Ps4 and Xbone versions of TW3 all with season pass, so whatever platform release B&W first I would get it!

[FKA_Servo]

I have PC,Ps4 and Xbone versions of TW3 all with season pass, so whatever platform release B&W first I would get it!

That's legitimately weird.