15816 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

The thing about auto-dialogue is that when it's done well it's rarely noticable. What you consider a flaw in TW series many others don't because like i've said before you are role-playing as Geralt and it makes sense that on occasion he will speak on his own and make decision without player's actions and it fits well.
 
Shepard starts as a blank slate with some minor history and background and were allowed to role-play to that extend.
However this was dropped heavily in third game and i wouldn't complain if only Shepard didn't speak and acted on his own in a lot of crucial moments in the plot: entire intro, forcing us to care about the kid and awful dream sequences, denying EDI to become sexbot companion. automatically getting pissed at Joker after Reapers nuked Thessia etc.
 
Auto-dialogue was present in entire trilogy but it feels so much more prominent in Mass Effect 3 because it's more noticable and it colors Shepard's actions and words with a specific tone and opinions that goes against the player.

Watching a lengthy cut-scene with auto-dialogue is not RP; it's a break from it. Be it TW or ME, it breaks from being the Player's character. The Player's opinion on whether it is done well does not apply, as that varies for each Player.

[Xetykins]

Watching a lengthy cut-scene with auto-dialogue is not RP; it's a break from it. Be it TW or ME, it breaks from being the Player's character. The Player's opinion on whether it is done well does not apply, as that varies for each Player.

Yeah we get it. Anything... anything at all that TW3 did really well... are the things you hate most. Witcher did cities marvelously... you hate. Well done cutscenes in TW3 you hate. Side quests that was lauded all over.... you hate. Mechanics like repopulation in game? You had to device from your own little world of mind fiction that it also happened in real time on DAI too. Come now. Salt is all over the place.

And the cutscenes in tw3 is just something in the witcher wold that Geralt would say as the protag of his own 8 books. The major decisions are still left to the player to choose. But I am sure that talking to the back of people's head in DAI is the better mechanics for you than having a real cutscene that reflects even the minor nuances of the people you talk to. Amiright?

[Elhanan]

Yeah we get it. Anything... anything at all that TW3 did really well... are the things you hate most. Witcher did cities marvelously... you hate. Well done cutscenes in TW3 you hate. Side quests that was lauded all over.... you hate. Mechanics like repopulation in game? You had to device from your own little world of mind fiction that it also happened in real time on DAI too. Come now. Salt is all over the place.

And the cutscenes in tw3 is just something in the witcher wold that Geralt would say as the protag of his own 8 books. The major decisions are still left to the player to choose. But I am sure that talking to the back of people's head in DAI is the better mechanics for you than having a real cutscene that reflects even the minor nuances of the people you talk to. Amiright?

No; as usual, one leaps to conclusions. I was against lengthy cut-scenes and auto-dialogue a fairly long time before DAI, let alone TW3. I was one of many that asked for their removal from DAI, and was pleased when they did. Shame that TW3 again appears to reduce Player control along with the other limits.

[Blooddrunk1004]

No; as usual, one leaps to conclusions. I was against lengthy cut-scenes and auto-dialogue a fairly long time before DAI, let alone TW3. I was one of many that asked for their removal from DAI, and was pleased when they did. Shame that TW3 again appears to reduce Player control along with the other limits.

You're just just bringing stuff out of nowhere now and considering you haven't even played TW3 i can't even consider taking most of your posts seriously or with any dignity. A lot TW3 cutscenes that are lengthy do not contain any roleplaying. It's usualy fighting, action or stuff that does not even include protagonists.

 

Yes, Witcher has cutscenes, a lot of them including in side quests which helps making story and characters feel more flashed out (something both Inquisiton and ME3 lacked). Deus Ex did it similiar with the way you could handle conversations as Adam, but never have i ever felt that Adam or Geralt were taken and locked away from players action while ME3 did it as soon as the intro started.

[Elhanan]

You're just just bringing stuff out of nowhere now and considering you haven't even played TW3 i can't even consider taking most of your posts seriously or with any dignity. A lot TW3 cutscenes that are lengthy do not contain any roleplaying. It's usualy fighting, action or stuff that does not even include protagonists.
 
Yes, Witcher has cutscenes, a lot of them including in side quests which helps making story and characters feel more flashed out (something both Inquisiton and ME3 lacked). Deus Ex did it similiar with the way you could handle conversations as Adam, but never have i ever felt that Adam or Geralt were taken and locked away from players action while ME3 did it as soon as the intro started.

Felt? Feelings aside, opinion has nothing to do with it. A cut-scene is not RP, and the longer it goes, and more it forces dialogue and actions of the PC, the more it breaks the game. Also not a fan of what I have seen of Deus Ex, and the use of this mechanic either.

And I have played ME3 extensively; it does not work there either. DAI has it attached to the Main story and linked content; a move that is more in line with keeping Player control than these others.

[Eelectrica]

Yeah we get it. Anything... anything at all that TW3 did really well... are the things you hate most. Witcher did cities marvelously... you hate. Well done cutscenes in TW3 you hate. Side quests that was lauded all over.... you hate. Mechanics like repopulation in game? You had to device from your own little world of mind fiction that it also happened in real time on DAI too. Come now. Salt is all over the place.

And the cutscenes in tw3 is just something in the witcher wold that Geralt would say as the protag of his own 8 books. The major decisions are still left to the player to choose. But I am sure that talking to the back of people's head in DAI is the better mechanics for you than having a real cutscene that reflects even the minor nuances of the people you talk to. Amiright?

Indeed.

I've gone back to my PS:Torment play through, and even in that game which is lauded for its dialogue choices and RPing options - and rightly so, even that game has instances which are pretty much the same as auto dialogue. We run down a list of questions that we can break from when we want. That's not a criticism, it's just a reality of creating interactive story telling that not every conversation can have a multitude of dialogue options. At the end of the day I felt I had enough control to play Geralt the way I wanted. Of course more is better, and I hope when CDPR rolls out Cyberpunk, we do have PnP style stat character based conversation choices.

 

In almost every quest and sidequest we have choices we can make

- The bloke that burned down the Dwarven smiths house - turn him or or not.

- The bloke running goods for the Temerian resistance - turn him over and score points with Nilfgaardians or keep quiet.

- The lady badly wounded - risk a Witchers potion as a cure or let nature take its course

- The lady who wants us to fetch a pan. In DAI, we would have literally fetched a pan. in Witcher though we had a cool little side story whilst very subtly re-introducing Thaler to the series.

And that's just a few examples from the opening 2 or 3 hours!

 

 

Pillars of Eternity was another great RPG in terms of dialogue options and ability to play our character, but even then if we dig a little deeper, not every conversation had stat and character checks.

 

A lot of the auto-dialogue in Witcher 3 was Geralt reacting to the actions of others where player choice would have been limited anyway.

In Witcher 3 or DAI we couldn't play an evil incarnate character if we wanted too. In DAI, the inquisitor literally had Thedas over a barrel as the only one who could actually seal the rifts.

 

Would have been cool I think to play a power mad Inquistor who is left alive and tolerated just long enough to close the final rift. But I get it - only so many hours in the day to create these stories. A little like in the original Deus Ex being unable to stick with Unatco and I tried dammit, I tried.

Ok I went a little off the rails there. LOL

 

Cut scenes I take or leave. I've got probably just as many hours logged in POE as Witcher 3, one has them, the other doesn't, mostly due to budget constraints as much as anything.

 

Really interesting article:

http://www.pcgamer.c...y-an-algorithm/

[panzerwzh]

Indeed.

I've gone back to my PS:Torment play through, and even in that game which is lauded for its dialogue choices and RPing options - and rightly so, even that game has instances which are pretty much the same as auto dialogue. We run down a list of questions that we can break from when we want. That's not a criticism, it's just a reality of creating interactive story telling that not every conversation can have a multitude of dialogue options. At the end of the day I felt I had enough control to play Geralt the way I wanted. Of course more is better, and I hope when CDPR rolls out Cyberpunk, we do have PnP style stat character based conversation choices.

 

In almost every quest and sidequest we have choices we can make

- The bloke that burned down the Dwarven smiths house - turn him or or not.

- The bloke running goods for the Temerian resistance - turn him over and score points with Nilfgaardians or keep quiet.

- The lady badly wounded - risk a Witchers potion as a cure or let nature take its course

- The lady who wants us to fetch a pan. In DAI, we would have literally fetched a pan. in Witcher though we had a cool little side story whilst very subtly re-introducing Thaler to the series.

And that's just a few examples from the opening 2 or 3 hours!

 

 

Pillars of Eternity was another great RPG in terms of dialogue options and ability to play our character, but even then if we dig a little deeper, not every conversation had stat and character checks.

 

A lot of the auto-dialogue in Witcher 3 was Geralt reacting to the actions of others where player choice would have been limited anyway.

In Witcher 3 or DAI we couldn't play an evil incarnate character if we wanted too. In DAI, the inquisitor literally had Thedas over a barrel as the only one who could actually seal the rifts.

 

Would have been cool I think to play a power mad Inquistor who is left alive and tolerated just long enough to close the final rift. But I get it - only so many hours in the day to create these stories. A little like in the original Deus Ex being unable to stick with Unatco and I tried dammit, I tried.

Ok I went a little off the rails there. LOL

 

Cut scenes I take or leave. I've got probably just as many hours logged in POE as Witcher 3, one has them, the other doesn't, mostly due to budget constraints as much as anything.

 

Really interesting article:

http://www.pcgamer.c...y-an-algorithm/

WOW, this is legit nuclear weapon for RPG development.

[slimgrin]

The notion that games shouldn't have cutscenes is ridiculous. I get why certain games are fine without them, Dishonored, TES, etc. but in Bioware and CDPR games, they not only make sense, they're an effective form of storytelling. Consider the range of emotions you can represent, or in the case of The Witcher, you have characters with ulterior motives and the player needs to scrutinize their expression to decide whether to trust that person. The scene where Phillipa steps out of her chamber in TW2 just after 'treating' Saski comes to mind. There's a knowing look on her face for just an instant, and it can influence your trust of her at a very early stage. This is adding another layer to the presentation and it makes the roleplaying even more nuanced imo. Titles like Tomb Raider or Arkham basically need them to amp up the presentation and give players a breather between the heavy action. I've seen very few developers abuse them by taking too much control out of the player's hands. 

[Xetykins]

The notion that games shouldn't have cutscenes is ridiculous. I get why certain games are fine without them, Dishonored, TES, etc. but in Bioware and CDPR games, they not only make sense, they're an effective form of storytelling. Consider the range of emotions you can represent, or in the case of The Witcher, you have characters with ulterior motives and the player need to scrutinize their expression to decide whether to trust that person. The scene where Phillipa steps out of her chamber in TW2 just after 'treating' Saski comes to mind. There's a knowing look on her face for just an instant, and it can influence your trust of her at a very early stage. This is adding another layer to presentation and it makes the roleplaying even more nuanced imo. Titles like Tomb Raider or Arkham basically need them to amp up the presentation and give players a breather between the heavy action. I've seen very few developers abuse them by taking too much control out of the player's hands.

Indeed. Like that cutscene in the isle of mist. Both Geralt and Ciri... well, specially Geralt did not have to say anything. All the the communications and the feelings you needed to know is all right there on that scene. With the body language and expressions, it made for a most poignant scene ever.

[nfi42]

You hear a lot of criticism of the Witcher 3 like thus:

• cut scenes are too long
• set protagonist
• no allies
• combat is bad
• the contract side quests all have the same mechanic.

and my favorite

 

• all the side quests are just boring fetch quests.

 

apart from the last point which is just simply ridiculous, these arguments hold some merit if just comparing specific criteria to one's own biases. If you accept Witcher 3 for what it is rather then what you want it to be,  then Witcher 3 is  a glorious game.  Sure it has it's faults, but far less then most.

 

eg,  Personally, I don't like AI companions but I didn't let that stop me from playing the ME series.  I've played each ME game at least 6 times and thoroughly enjoyed it. 

 

Quite frankly,  I view the rambling of those who refuse to even try to play the game with the above criticisms as childish. 

[Elhanan]

The notion that games shouldn't have cutscenes is ridiculous. I get why certain games are fine without them, Dishonored, TES, etc. but in Bioware and CDPR games, they not only make sense, they're an effective form of storytelling. Consider the range of emotions you can represent, or in the case of The Witcher, you have characters with ulterior motives and the player need to scrutinize their expression to decide whether to trust that person. The scene where Phillipa steps out of her chamber in TW2 just after 'treating' Saski comes to mind. There's a knowing look on her face for just an instant, and it can influence your trust of her at a very early stage. This is adding another layer to presentation and it makes the roleplaying even more nuanced imo. Titles like Tomb Raider or Arkham basically need them to amp up the presentation and give players a breather between the heavy action. I've seen very few developers abuse them by taking too much control out of the player's hands.

Agreed; not against cut-scenes as an aid in telling the story, but should not become the story.

[Elhanan]

You hear a lot of criticism of the Witcher 3 like thus:

• cut scenes are too long
• set protagonist
• no allies
• combat is bad
• the contract side quests all have the same mechanic.

and my favorite

• all the side quests are just boring fetch quests.

apart from the last point which is just simply ridiculous, these arguments hold some merit if just comparing specific criteria to one's own biases. If you accept Witcher 3 for what it is rather then what you want it to be,  then Witcher 3 is  a glorious game.  Sure it has it's faults, but far less then most.
 
eg,  Personally, I don't like AI companions but I didn't let that stop me from playing the ME series.  I've played each ME game at least 6 times and thoroughly enjoyed it. 
 
Quite frankly,  I view the rambling of those who refuse to even try to play the game with the above criticisms as childish.

I call not purchasing something I obviously will not enjoy a savings and being an informed consumer. Do not have to try a game I cannot play (ie; lack of Pause feature; may be one now due to last patch), or find disagreeable (ie; excess of so-called mature content); simply have to be aware it is there.

[nfi42]

I call not purchasing something I obviously will not enjoy a savings and being an informed consumer. Do not have to try a game I cannot play (ie; lack of Pause feature; may be one now due to last patch), or find disagreeable (ie; excess of so-called mature content); simply have to be aware it is there.

A valid point  but then don't criticise  the game, your contribution to this thread is nil.

[Elhanan]

A valid point  but then don't criticise  the game, your contribution to this thread is nil.

Not when the topic concerns inclusion to DAI; a Bioware product on a Bioware forum. Sorry folks do not like to read that not everyone likes TW3 and wants to replicate the content, but believe I shall stay.

For those that wish to avoid me, I do not post at CDPR currently.

[Xetykins]

A valid point  but then don't criticise  the game, your contribution to this thread is nil.

Thats ok he can babble. Not that his thoughts holds weight here anyway. And watching him get flustered whenever people says nice things about TW3 is funny. You should see him lie, that is even funnier!

But we love him anyway because its never gets boring.

[nfi42]

Not when the topic concerns inclusion to DAI; a Bioware product on a Bioware forum. Sorry folks do not like to read that not everyone likes TW3 and wants to replicate the content, but believe I shall stay.

For those that wish to avoid me, I do not post at CDPR currently.

 

 

I have and everyone (I assume) bar you posting in this thread have played both games.  I myself have played DAI 4 times and W3 more.

 

Here is a widely/almost universal opinion.  Witcher 3's side quests are better than DAI's.  Something you cannot make an argument against as you have not played the game.

 

i do not wish to silence you.  I have lurked on these forums for a long time and have agreed with your opinions  at times. In the DAI PC Controls thread.  ie, whilst the controls where not intuitive,  they where playable. Your opinion there was valid ( but admittedly  far from universal)  because you have played the game, and I agree.

 

 

Your opinions in this thread largely have no relevance, because you haven't played the game.  I really wish you would take this as a positive criticism.

[Wolven_Soul]

You're just just bringing stuff out of nowhere now and considering you haven't even played TW3 i can't even consider taking most of your posts seriously or with any dignity. A lot TW3 cutscenes that are lengthy do not contain any roleplaying. It's usualy fighting, action or stuff that does not even include protagonists.

 

Yes, Witcher has cutscenes, a lot of them including in side quests which helps making story and characters feel more flashed out (something both Inquisiton and ME3 lacked). Deus Ex did it similiar with the way you could handle conversations as Adam, but never have i ever felt that Adam or Geralt were taken and locked away from players action while ME3 did it as soon as the intro started.

 

The best thing about all those cut scenes, is that it really displayed CDPR's mastery over facial expressions.  It gave you a reason to be involved in even more minor conversations.  When a villager tells me about how a monster has murdered a loved one, I can actually see and hear their pain.  Remember the little boy who tells us of Johnny, and who also, if asked, will tell us what happened to his parents?  I think that was the same one.  Anyway, you could both see and hear his pain in that part of the story. 

 

Even more minor quests, where a villager tells us of a monster who has killed a loved one they put little touches into those cut scenes that allows you to really feel for that person's pain. 

 

These are things that DA:I lacked so much of.  A woman tells us of how her husband was murdered by Templars?  No cut scene, no facial expressions, no emotion, I didn't give a crap.

[nfi42]

Thats ok he can babble. Not that his thoughts holds weight here anyway. And watching him get flustered whenever people says nice things about TW3 is funny. You should see him lie, that is even funnier!

But we love him anyway because its never gets boring.

 

 

I've been lurking here a long time.  I've seen a lot

 

To be honest,  he was only the catalyst for something I've been wanting to say/post a long time.  I see criticism of games for a persons own personal biases,  not for what the  game is,  and this doesn't just apply to Witcher 3 or even just games.  I want to enjoy things not hate things.

[slimgrin]

Got to the part where the city is being razed by vampires and I'm slaying them left and right. Glorious. Glad I invested in the Aard freeze mutation and a couple rune words. And Damien De La Tour is a fearless bro. Between the two expansions, I'm pretty impressed with the gameplay additions. Too bad they couldn't be incorporated in the base game somehow. 

[nfi42]

I decided to start a new game from scratch on Deathmarch with level scaling before tackling both expansions and and I'm close to beating the original game.

 

The good:  The infamous locked chest in the cave in the sunstone quest can now be opened.

The bad: The cow in the Tower out of noware  has no heath bar and thus cannot be killed.

The ugly: I got nothin. O contrare, the water is much improved in the base game.

[Elhanan]

I have and everyone (I assume) bar you posting in this thread have played both games.  I myself have played DAI 4 times and W3 more.
 
Here is a widely/almost universal opinion.  Witcher 3's side quests are better than DAI's.  Something you cannot make an argument against as you have not played the game.
 
i do not wish to silence you.  I have lurked on these forums for a long time and have agreed with your opinions  at times. In the DAI PC Controls thread.  ie, whilst the controls where not intuitive,  they where playable. Your opinion there was valid ( but admittedly  far from universal)  because you have played the game, and I agree. 
 
Your opinions in this thread largely have no relevance, because you haven't played the game.  I really wish you would take this as a positive criticism.

I prefer to save the funds and use them towards the next Bioware pre-order. And while my opinions of TW3 may not have value to many here, that does not equate to my opinion having no merit because I did not play it.

I did not see the most recent Fantastic 4 film to be informed it was largely not for me; same with other films, shows, books, and games. If I know that the content is something I dislike, my opinion of such not being included in products that I do like has merit to me. However, it may not behoove me to review the title, even on sites like meta-critic where purchase is not required.

[nfi42]

 

snip

 

while my opinions of TW3 may not have value to many here, that does not equate to my opinion having no merit because I did not play it.

 

 

Opinions: You have the right to be wrong if you wish.  It just annoys everyone else which I would imagine annoys yourself.  It would me.

 

btw.  I have nothing further to add to this exchange.  You can lead a horse to water but you cant make them think.

 

Enjoy your gaming.  I sincerely mean that.

[Blooddrunk1004]

You hear a lot of criticism of the Witcher 3 like thus:

• cut scenes are too long
• set protagonist
• no allies
• combat is bad
• the contract side quests all have the same mechanic.

and my favorite

 

• all the side quests are just boring fetch quests.

 

I have come to conclusion that anyone who says TW3 side quests are fetch quests that they have not played the game or seen any actual gameplay.

Even TW2 didn't had them, the only one i recall was Harpies feathers quest which was poking fun at fetch quests and the conclusion was hillarious.

 

 

The best thing about all those cut scenes, is that it really displayed CDPR's mastery over facial expressions.  It gave you a reason to be involved in even more minor conversations.  When a villager tells me about how a monster has murdered a loved one, I can actually see and hear their pain.  Remember the little boy who tells us of Johnny, and who also, if asked, will tell us what happened to his parents?  I think that was the same one.  Anyway, you could both see and hear his pain in that part of the story. 

 

Even more minor quests, where a villager tells us of a monster who has killed a loved one they put little touches into those cut scenes that allows you to really feel for that person's pain. 

 

These are things that DA:I lacked so much of.  A woman tells us of how her husband was murdered by Templars?  No cut scene, no facial expressions, no emotion, I didn't give a crap.

 

Can't agree more with this statement. To give credit, BW did had some good emotional moments, but most of them were in ME series. While facial expressions didn't really played much role, a lot of squadmates were written well enough for me to care about them.

 

Same goes for Witcher characters + seeing their faces when they were angry, sad or happy just made the emotional moments in Witcher having much more impact, when Bloody Baron described his story about what he did to his wife and her child i actually felt sorry for him even though he is a disgusting drunk woman beating a-hole.

[nfi42]

I have come to conclusion that anyone who says TW3 side quests are fetch quests that they have not played the game or seen any actual gameplay.

Even TW2 didn't had them, the only one i recall was Harpies feathers quest which was poking fun at fetch quests and the conclusion was hillarious.

 

I'm sure a lot of these people have played it, but have there blinkers on.  eg.  skipping through the cut scenes thus depriving themselves of TW3's strength in story telling, especially in the fantastic side quests. 

[FKA_Servo]

Popping in to remind everyone that engagement is futile regarding this specific topic.