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[Elhanan]

I gave up on Inquisition two hours in and started another Origins run. 
 
No regrets.

I get that; same feeling towards TW3 after watching that much footage. And I am currently testing a high DEX Rogue design in DAA.

[slimgrin]

I get that; same feeling towards TW3 after watching that much footage. And I am currently testing a high DEX Rogue design in DAA.

 

Don't sully me with your likes you traitor!

 

Seriously though, Origins is a deep and complex game. I keep coming back to it. I still find the level design overly spare and I'm not a fan of the D&D style dialog responses, but there's a lot under the hood when it comes to mechanics and roleplaying. All the characters are well written too. Except Oghren. I hate that dude.

[TmTapani]

I get that; same feeling towards TW3 after watching that much footage. And I am currently testing a high DEX Rogue design in DAA.

Wait a minute... What are YOU doing watching TW3 footage? Those 2 hours were supposedly just nonstop cut scenes and profanity...

[Elhanan]

Wait a minute... What are YOU doing watching TW3 footage? Those 2 hours were supposedly just nonstop cut scenes and profanity...

Watched gameplay footage to confirm the reported cut-scenes and profanity. Sure beats wasting my funds to purchase said game.

[TmTapani]

Watched gameplay footage to confirm the reported cut-scenes and profanity. Sure beats wasting my funds to purchase said game.

So you watched TW3 game play for 2 hours and somehow got mostly swearwords and cutscenes during that time? The tutorial alone takes around 4 hours to complete and and has maybe, maybe, a single slightly profane word in it, depending of course on your definition of it. And maybe 20 to 25 minutes worth of cutscenes?

 

Bloody hell, that makes me an expert on DAI then. Never played it but I've watched around 15ish hours of footage from it. Now I have the necessary authority to talk crap about it. Yay?

 

But seriously, it's always wise to check gameplay footage deciding on a purchase. You just say negative things about the game far too much and far too often considering how little you actually know about it.

[Elhanan]

So you watched TW3 game play for 2 hours and somehow got mostly swearwords and cutscenes during that time? The tutorial alone takes around 4 hours to complete and and has maybe, maybe, a single slightly profane word in it, depending of course on your definition of it. And maybe 20 to 25 minutes worth of cutscenes?
 
Bloody hell, that makes me an expert on DAI then. Never played it but I've watched around 15ish hours of footage from it. Now I have the necessary authority to talk crap about it. Yay?
 
But seriously, it's always wise to check gameplay footage deciding on a purchase. You just say negative things about the game far too much and far too often considering how little you actually know about it.

Nope; watched a few various LP's, trailers, gameplay vids, read reviews, etc. This was enough for me to make an informed choice; no supposition required.

[slimgrin]

Nope; watched a few various LP's, trailers, gameplay vids, read reviews, etc. This was enough for me to make an informed choice; no supposition required.

 

Did you try TW1?

[Elhanan]

Did you try TW1?

No. I almost did, as it used the NWN1 engine and had incredible screenshots. But various reports on content appeared, so my interest diminished.

[slimgrin]

No. I almost did, as it used the NWN1 engine and had incredible screenshots. But various reports on content appeared, so my interest diminished.

 

How can you accept a game like DA:O, where you can stab children and leave men to demons, and choose a guy like Loghain as an ally...and be offended by the Witcher series?

 

TW1 is marginally worse than DA:O when it come to adult content. 

[Khayness]

DAI isn't awful, it's just disappointing and a missed opportunity. It has some really good parts in it, it's just a labor of getting through the drudge work until you reach the interesting bits.

 

The battle at Haven and finding the Skyhold are the few legitimately good parts. But it only highlights how mediocre the rest really is. After that it's just killing stupid people who thought that allying with the world ending apocalypse badguy somehow will help them furthering their goals. Because there will be a world left to enjoy your things in, obviously.

 

The writing is mostly cringeworthy, the return of Morrigan/Flemeth/OGB, Solas and the elven lore bits are cool (haven't played any DLC though), which only makes it more painful to sit through time traveling evil mages and Iron Bull lecturing you about trans people.

[vbibbi]

The battle at Haven and finding the Skyhold are the few legitimately good parts. But it only highlights how mediocre the rest really is. After that it's just killing stupid people who thought that allying with the world ending apocalypse badguy somehow will help them furthering their goals. Because there will be a world left to enjoy your things in, obviously.

 

The writing is mostly cringeworthy, the return of Morrigan/Flemeth/OGB, Solas and the elven lore bits are cool (haven't played any DLC though), which only makes it more painful to sit through time traveling evil mages and Iron Bull lecturing you about trans people.

 

I don't agree with all of your points, but I think what we agree on is that the character moments were generally stronger than the plot moments. Which really is typical for a Bioware game. It's just that the character moments are fewer and farther between in the open world DAI environment so it's harder to appreciate them. And the cast was overall not one of my favorites of Bio games, so having fewer characters whom I cared about, regardless of if they were well written, decreased my enjoyment.

 

I remember in my first playthrough, I imported a world state where Morrigan had the OGB. So I followed her into the Fade and confronted Flemeth. As I watched that scene, I was emotionally touched. And immediately thought that this was the first time in the entire game I had felt strong emotion. The scene became more bittersweet to me when I realized most of the game hadn't been nearly as emotionally touching for me.

[Khayness]

I remember in my first playthrough, I imported a world state where Morrigan had the OGB. So I followed her into the Fade and confronted Flemeth. As I watched that scene, I was emotionally touched. And immediately thought that this was the first time in the entire game I had felt strong emotion. The scene became more bittersweet to me when I realized most of the game hadn't been nearly as emotionally touching for me.

 

But all that is thanks to Dragon Age: Origins, because even a follow up tie-in moment to that game's story adds something good to DA:I. I cared for the elven lore update because of my investment and knowledge of the franchise aswell.

 

I doubt I would have felt the same if I had played DA:I as the Excellent Starting Point To The Franchise™.

[Elhanan]

How can you accept a game like DA:O, where you can stab children and leave men to demons, and choose a guy like Loghain as an ally...and be offended by the Witcher series?
 
TW1 is marginally worse than DA:O when it come to adult content.

I cannot recall stabbing any children in DAO, though I recall a truly mature title where children died in the tale. And I remember making tough choices concerning characters in a game, but did not have that content devolve into a profane laden script. And the entire DA series has outstanding VO, writing, humor, and banter.

And no sex cards; a real bonus....

[Elhanan]

But all that is thanks to Dragon Age: Origins, because even a follow up tie-in moment to that game's story adds something good to DA:I. I cared for the elven lore update because of my investment and knowledge of the franchise aswell.
 
I doubt I would have felt the same if I had played DA:I as the Excellent Starting Point To The Franchise™.

Or be tossed into the deep end of a series based on lore from books never read, given a character to play instead of creating one ourselves, and to be lured into justifying so-called Mature content as realism while accepting the high fantasy along with it.

Must be what comes from looking at a game through a fish bowl lens....

[Dutchess]

I don't agree with all of your points, but I think what we agree on is that the character moments were generally stronger than the plot moments. Which really is typical for a Bioware game. It's just that the character moments are fewer and farther between in the open world DAI environment so it's harder to appreciate them. And the cast was overall not one of my favorites of Bio games, so having fewer characters whom I cared about, regardless of if they were well written, decreased my enjoyment.

 

I remember in my first playthrough, I imported a world state where Morrigan had the OGB. So I followed her into the Fade and confronted Flemeth. As I watched that scene, I was emotionally touched. And immediately thought that this was the first time in the entire game I had felt strong emotion. The scene became more bittersweet to me when I realized most of the game hadn't been nearly as emotionally touching for me.

I found the characters and their "moments" considerably weaker than before (yep, including DA2, where the companions pretty much saved the game for me). Even the voice-acting seemed worse and awkward to me in places, which is weird because previously that has been a strong point of Bioware games and some of the offenders were recurring characters, namely Leliana and Cassandra. 

 

The encounter between OGB Morrigan and Flemeth randomly and clumsily tied up the OG soul thread without any further explanation or reasoning. Flemeth telling Morrigan that she never had anything to fear from her because her possession body jump trick only worked on willing hosts retroactively took a dump on Morrigan's quest in DAO. If Flemeth was never a threat, why not simply say that when the Warden shows up at her door to kill her? Why turn into a giant dragon and get "killed"? Was she bored there in the swamp? The only plausible reason I can think of would be that Morrigan wouldn't believe the reassurance, but she apparently just swallows it in DA:I so that doesn't fly.

[vbibbi]

But all that is thanks to Dragon Age: Origins, because even a follow up tie-in moment to that game's story adds something good to DA:I. I cared for the elven lore update because of my investment and knowledge of the franchise aswell.

 

I doubt I would have felt the same if I had played DA:I as the Excellent Starting Point To The Franchise™.

 

Oh definitely, it relied on my prior interacts with Morrigan and Flemeth. I think it would still have been moving because of the excellent voice acting and some of the better facial animation, but not nearly as personally resonating.

 

Maybe it's also because it was drama on a much more relatable level: a mother willing to do anything to protect her child, and a grandmother who realises she's failed in her own parenting. It's much more down to earth and emotional for me than worrying about the Veil tearing, because that has no actual real world comparison and is ultimately emotionally meaningless.

 

That's why Bio's characters are usually the best parts of their games. Their plots often have no real emotional resonance with the audience, they're just supah ancient evil threatens the end of the world stories, which has no meaning to my real life. But their characters relate to the players because they have real world issues.

 

I found the characters and their "moments" considerably weaker than before (yep, including DA2, where the companions pretty much saved the game for me). Even the voice-acting seemed worse and awkward to me in places, which is weird because previously that has been a strong point of Bioware games and some of the offenders were recurring characters, namely Leliana and Cassandra. 

 

The encounter between OGB Morrigan and Flemeth randomly and clumsily tied up the OG soul thread without any further explanation or reasoning. Flemeth telling Morrigan that she never had anything to fear from her because her possession body jump trick only worked on willing hosts retroactively took a dump on Morrigan's quest in DAO. If Flemeth was never a threat, why not simply say that when the Warden shows up at her door to kill her? Why turn into a giant dragon and get "killed"? Was she bored there in the swamp? The only plausible reason I can think of would be that Morrigan wouldn't believe the reassurance, but she apparently just swallows it in DA:I so that doesn't fly.

Eh, I actually didn't mind making the DAO quest retroactively unnecessary, and I usually dislike retcons. I felt it was in character for both of them. Morrigan thinks she is cleverer than she is, and once she sets her mind on an idea it's difficult for her to consider she might be wrong. Flemeth (even better explained by Mythal) likes to see herself as a Great Mother type who is wise despite her tough love style of parenting. But she is also extremely petty and arrogant in her power.

 

So, with DAI in mind, I now see DAO as this: Morrigan saw how her mother dealt with outsiders for her entire life. While we know that Flemeth wouldn't do anything to actively harm her daughter, Morrigan just saw her mother manipulate and use people for her own ends. She had no reason to believe she would be any different, and Flemeth either was blind to her daughter's fear or thought it wasn't the right time to tell her the Big Picture.

 

Flemeth has lived for centuries and doesn't fear death. It's only temporary for her. So she doesn't mind risking her "life" in order to test Morrigan and see whether she would try to kill her own mother. She is not surprised when the HOF shows up to kill her, so she always knew this was a possibility. And even Morrigan knows that killing Flemeth's form probably would only be a temporary measure.

 

I don't know if it was an oversight on Flemeth's part or her curiosity as to what Morrigan would do with incomplete information that kept her from explaining how the body swap works. It could be that she has been sharing Mythal's spirit for so long that she forgot that normal people don't understand what that would be life and would be afraid that they would be subsumed by another "person." Or she could have held back explaining her plans to Morrigan because she has a final test of character for her daughter before she tries to merge with her. How far is Morrigan willing to go to preserve her own life and independence? Flemeth wants to make sure that her new host would be tough enough to survive the coming changes to the world.

[SlottsMachine]

Or be tossed into the deep end of a series based on lore from books never read, given a character to play instead of creating one ourselves, and to be lured into justifying so-called Mature content as realism while accepting the high fantasy along with it.

Must be what comes from looking at a game through a fish bowl lens....

 

You have strong opinions for games you've never played. 

[Elhanan]

You have strong opinions for games you've never played.

Not exactly; have strong opinions on games that I wanted to play, but will not due to included content or lack of mechanics. Also have strong opinions on games that I have played (ie; DAI); prefer what I got to the stuff I disliked in the other game that kept me from a purchase.

[kaze369]

Not exactly; have strong opinions on games that I wanted to play, but will not due to included content or lack of mechanics. Also have strong opinions on games that I have played (ie; DAI); prefer what I got to the stuff I disliked in the other game that kept me from a purchase.

Have you at least watched gameplay footage or "Let's Plays" because if you haven't then your opinion isn't really valid. 

[SnakeCode]

Elhanan, can we count on you posting in this thread on the 26th? It'd feel weird and kind of empty if you weren't here to see out the thread's final hours. 

[Elhanan]

Have you at least watched gameplay footage or "Let's Plays" because if you haven't then your opinion isn't really valid.

As mentioned earlier, several hours of both.

[Cassandra Saturn]

i get the feeling that DA4 could be more like TW3 i mean, it was so good in all areas.. so to say.

[FKA_Servo]

Elhanan, at this point, is this really a productive use of your time?

Talk about childish behavior.