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[Dreadstruck]

What does having people of color do for the story that CDPR is telling ? Does having them improves the game in any meaningful way apart from ticking the "diversity" checkbox of some social justice weasel ? 
 
Seriously, I am a 23 year old Tamil Indian who is a Malaysian citizen. I can speak 4 languages smoothly, I have an Afro hair that make people mistake me for African and my skin color is very Middle Eastern....I am a diverse as you can get....& I really would like to know how having people of color can improve this game ? Especially since this game was based on books written by an author who drew many references from northern European myths and themes.
 
This is a lot like saying that  Lord of the Rings is somehow bad because it does not have people of color in it and were written by white old man. 
 
Well, why don't I apply this standard to other parts of the world ? Why is it that Ramayana or Mahabharata or the Bhagavad Gita incredibly Indian ? There are no inclusions and representations of Chinese people or White people or Africans in it. Or how about video games from Japan ? There are very little inclusions of diverse people of color in their games. Many of their characters are skinny, have big eyes and weird spiky hair. Or what about horror movies from Thailand ? There seems to be very little inclusion of diverse people of color there as well. 
 
Does this mean all these things are bad or awful ? Or is it that these things are written to cater to a particular audience ? In The Witcher's case, the games are based on series of books written by a Polish man for Polish people to read. CDPR simply follows the lore. The same goes with Tolkein's works. They are written for a particular audience. Neither of these people expected that their works would gain global recognition and status. Neither of these people expected that there would be spoilt brats demanding inclusion of characters for no reason other than to tick the diversity box either. 


 
It is truly odd that Westerners get to and have to deal with ridiculous standards such as "diversity" and "representation" for the entertainment medium such as books, movies and video games while the rest of us in the world get a free pass. Either you have the same standards across the board or you don't have it. Since I don't like shoehorning characters into something because of sex or skin color, I say we give the whole forced "diversity" and "representation" thing for some mythical equality in real life a middle finger. More choices are good but forced choices ? No.

This so many times. God, yes.

I also dislike shoehorning these things into something already established just because some over-sensitive people think it doesn't fit their real life views.

Same case with Kingdom Come: Deliverance, which takes place in rural medieval Bohemia. Some people were complaining about the lack of coloured people (yes, because a trader caravan from Middle East passing through Prague every 15th year somehow makes them all more common, right?), but thankfully, Warhorse Studios did not relent and sticked with their vision.

You wouldn't shoehorn white people into already established Japanese or Egyptian mythology either. And it still wouldn't make them less impressive or interesting.

[rashie]

Funny; thought Bioware has done an excellent job of handling mature materials in a reasoned way. Personally, I would say that the DA series has handled religion in a better manner than many other fine talents (eg; Joss Whedon). And I think that the presentation of human rights has been done in a way to invoke thought and debate; not to simply press Hotkeys on Players.

And since Bioware has also discussed rape, slavery, murder, bigotry, and a few other choice topics in their games, I cannot see that they have been afraid. However, when I look at the threads discussing either game, and see locker room humor over the included so-called mature materials, I do fear for humanity as a whole.....

The difference between them really is that CDPR adopts more of a show the player approach rather than just telling him about it.

 

DA:I is also very sanitized in comparison to both the witcher 3 and some of the things in their earlier titles.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I think there's a lot of truth to this statement. Unlike modern Bioware, CDPR certainly isn't afraid of using politically incorrect themes heavily, seen a good few scenarios so far that could easily offend people if they start to read into it more than taking it for  being a work of fiction, such as what "whoreson junior"s (a character named that) house looks like on the inside once you find the bastard.

 

They portray bad people doing bad things in a way similar to GTA at times.

 

Should note a lot of the storytelling the witcher games have are based upon slavic mythology, and things rarely end in a happily ever after manner in those tales.

 

That is why Slavic mythology is my favorite mythology. I have read up on Hindu, Islamic, Greek, Malay, English, Egyptian and Nordic / Slavic mythologies...and Nordic / Slavic are my favorites...Precisely because happy endings are rare...

 

Heck, if I was still religious, I would be praying to Nordic gods. Hail Odin ! 

 

 

The difference between them really is that CDPR adopts more of a show the player approach rather than just telling him about it.

 

DA:I is also very sanitized in comparison to both the witcher 3 and some of the things in their earlier titles.

 

This, so much this. As a historian who sometimes spends his time studying genocides (my primary specialization is History of Science), showing someone something is far more powerful than telling someone something. 

 

You can tell someone about a massacre and you can read about that massacre. But seeing it through old video clips or going to the place where it took place is an entirely different experience altogether. 

 

Bioware fails to understand this. Much of the wars in DAI is shown in codexes or through war table missions, all of which are texts. You have to have a really good, historian or a fictional writer level imagination to construct the texts into mental images and immerse yourself in them.

 

By contrast, CDPR shows the conflict that is happening. They even showed children and their sufferings. They showed the nuances of the Nilfgaard-North war. They make you hear the screams of a man who was whipped because he sent Nilfgaard troops rotten rye.

 

There are also other things such as their portrayal of leaders. Emhyr var Emreis in game is a truly charismatic, powerful and intimidating man. He looks and feels like he is the Emperor of a region. Thanks to a combination of things, he looks like Tywin Lannister turned up to 11. He even turns the snarky b***y Yennefer into a meek kitten by his mere presence in a room. Contrast this to someone like Empress Celene Valmont I. You look at her and you will be like "Meh, we could just off her for someone else."

 

That level of display makes you experience the game so much more differently. 

[Elhanan]

The difference between them really is that CDPR adopts more of a show the player approach rather than just telling him about it.
 
DA:I is also very sanitized in comparison to both the witcher 3 and some of the things in their earlier titles.

I prefer to play a game; not watch a show. Thanks!

[Milan92]

Bioware should take notes on how to portray a war from Witcher 3.

 

I'm genuine right now. 

[Laughing_Man]

Funny; thought Bioware has done an excellent job of handling mature materials in a reasoned way. Personally, I would say that the DA series has handled religion in a better manner than many other fine talents (eg; Joss Whedon). And I think that the presentation of human rights has been done in a way to invoke thought and debate; not to simply press Hotkeys on Players.

And since Bioware has also discussed rape, slavery, murder, bigotry, and a few other choice topics in their games, I cannot see that they have been afraid. However, when I look at the threads discussing either game, and see locker room humor over the included so-called mature materials, I do fear for humanity as a whole.....

 

Boo hoo. Go hide under the nearest bed.

 

The difference between Bioware and CDPR, is that bioware seems to use a relatively sanitized world to feed the gamer enlightened political opinions with a spoon, while CDPR shows you a grim picture, and let's you reach your own conclusions.

[AresKeith]

Bioware should take notes on how to portray a war from Witcher 3.

 

I'm genuine right now. 

 

Exalted Plains would've been a great spot to show it from the OCW/ War of the Lions

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Out of curiosity, since one of the topics right now involves political correctness, how do you all think CDPR will handle those kinds of things in Cyberpunk 2077?

 

Their reasoning for it not really existing in the Witcher franchise is because it is in a medieval setting so it's them trying to match that, but Cyberpunk 2077 is the opposite end of the spectrum since it takes place in our future, so logically would be even moreso than we are now. 

[Akrabra]

Bioware should take notes on how to portray a war from Witcher 3.

 

I'm genuine right now. 

That i can't disagree on. I never felt that the world was falling apart in DA:I, but i still feel like they brought up important themes in a subtle yet beautiful way. Listen to the banter between Cassandra and Cole, you'll hear what i mean. Bioware make dark worlds, but they conceal it better until it creeps up on you. The Witcher kind of smacks you in the face with it. Both approaches work for me, because i can make things better and react to it.

[Laughing_Man]

Out of curiosity, since one of the topics right now involves political correctness, how do you all think CDPR will handle those kinds of things in Cyberpunk 2077?

 

Their reasoning for it not really existing in the Witcher franchise is because it is in a medieval setting so it's them trying to match that, but Cyberpunk 2077 is the opposite end of the spectrum since it takes place in our future. 

 

Cyberpunk is also a rather dark settings, and I don't really see any reason for them to change what they are good at.

[Elhanan]

Boo hoo. Go hide under the nearest bed.
 
The difference between Bioware and CDPR, is that bioware seems to use a relatively sanitized world to feed the gamer enlightened political opinions with a spoon, while CDPR shows you a grim picture, and let's you reach your own conclusions.

No need. More likely that the snickering adolescents will continue to keep their heads buried in such, and we will not cross paths. And REH, Edgar Rice Burroughs, and others were crafting darker fantasy long before these current projects. Will pass on GoT and TW; thanks!

[Shechinah]

*snip*

 

I suppose it'll depend on what kind of future they are world-building but it sounds like they are intending to make it a bad future as in a dystopia. According to the Wikipedia; "Cyberpunk 2077 will feature a dystopian futuristic world in which ultra-modern technology co-exists with a degenerated human society"

 

It's sounds rather interested from the rest of it's description and I'm feeling inclined to keep an eye on it's development to see if it continues to be of interest.

 

 

[slimgrin]

Cyberpunk is also a rather dark settings, and I don't really see any reason for them to change what they are good at.

 

Cyberpunk's setting will make Witcher look like a stroll in the park. That is one desperate, dangerous world. Plus, there's no literary adaptation with that IP, so the writers can run hog wild.

[Laughing_Man]

No need. More likely that the snickering adolescents will continue to keep their heads buried in such, and we will not cross paths. And REH, Edgar Rice Burroughs, and others were crafting darker fantasy long before these current projects. Will pass on GoT and TW; thanks!

 

Wow. I feel humbled to have met someone as refined and intelligent as you, I'm sorry that we weren't ready to recieve your wisdom.

 

In any case, essentially what you are saying is "stop liking stuff that I don't like", you are just being overly flowery about it.

 

I also noticed that you ignored my point about the difference between Bioware and CDPR.

[RINNZ]

The snark in this thread is real. It needs to stop.

Now with Cyberpunk, i'm not entirely sure what they'll do. I don't see a problem with them NOT making it more PC. What if in the future, things stay as they are now? That would suck eggs, ill be honest.

[Shechinah]

Cyberpunk's setting will make Witcher look like a stroll in the park. That is one desperate, dangerous world. Plus, there's no literary adaptation with that IP, so the writers can run hog wild.

Hopefully, this does not mean it will not feature shock value though if what I've heard is to be believed then CD Projekt does not confuse dark for maturity or gritty for story substance so that leaves hope.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Cyberpunk's setting will make Witcher look like a stroll in the park. That is one desperate, dangerous world. Plus, there's no literary adaptation with that IP, so the writers can run hog wild.

 

LOL yeah. If you read the Cyberpunk books you will see that it makes Witcher look like Disney at times.

 

I think CDPR is carving a niche for making dark, gritty, believable, mature RPG with a smattering of humor and romance...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Cyberpunk is also a rather dark settings, and I don't really see any reason for them to change what they are good at.

I'm not asking about darkness. Both companies have proven themselves at that when they put their minds to it. 

 

Though I disagree that there is no reason for them to change the formula since the two franchises are vastly different. The Witcher franchise is based off a book series so everything is already rigidly established and they have to follow that. The Cyberpunk franchise is based off a tabletop RPG series where it is a lot more open to player(or developer in this case) flexibility in establishing a setting. CDPR even said that it'll be different from the Witcher. 

 

 

I suppose it'll depend on what kind of future they are world-building but it sounds like they are intending to make it a bad future as in a dystopia. According to the Wikipedia; "Cyberpunk 2077 will feature a dystopian futuristic world in which ultra-modern technology co-exists with a degenerated human society"

 

It's sounds rather interested from the rest of it's description and I'm feeling inclined to keep an eye on it's development to see if it continues to be of interest.

It's not part of the cyberpunk genre unless it is dystopian.

Ghost in the Shell, Deus Ex, Cyberpunk 2020, etc all have the wold as more a dystopia than a utopia. 

 

I may hate the Witcher franchise, but I am really curious about Cyberpunk 2077. I'm hesitant about it, but CDPR could pull it off really well, especially since they have the creator of the tabletop series working with them and they said it would be different from the Witcher(like for example the protagonist being customizable by the player instead of a set protagonist). 

 

If it goes well, it may be the first CDPR game I actually buy. 

[Darkly Tranquil]

Cyberpunk's setting will make Witcher look like a stroll in the park. That is one desperate, dangerous world. Plus, there's no literary adaptation with that IP, so the writers can run hog wild.

Cyberpunk is pretty much a distillation of ideas from the books of William Gibson and Phillip K. Dick, so I imagine they will serve as something of a launch pad for whatever the devs have in mind. There is also a huge amount of source material from the pen and paper RPG (Cyberpunk 2020) that the game is based on for them to draw from.

[herkles]

I prefer to play a game; not watch a show. Thanks!

That is not what show don't tell means. 

 

For instance we hear about how the elves are oppressed but we rarely see. We do not even get to see the Val Royeaux Alianage, which is described to be far larger then Denerim's Alianage, it has about 10k elves living there, and far worse, being the most dilapidated in all of thedas. We should have went there and seen it. Particularly if you are playing an elven character, you should have some things relating to this even if you are a dalish.  You should have seen the chevilers hazing ritual of going to kill a city elf after dark, and perhaps doing something to stop it. You should have seen the after math of celine's burning down the alianage and doing things to help people. 

 

The problem with dragon age is that it "said the elves are oppressed" but never showed us that. You never had any guard confuse you for an escaped elf from the alianage. 

 

Since I am also talking about Val Royeaux and this is a feed back based on the witcher 3. I would have made the whole area a region, not just the little courtyard area but the whole city.  With numerous locations including, but not limited to:

 

The summer bazaar: this is the area we see IG, and it should be kept relativly the same. Though several quests should be pushed out to other areas. I would also have a quest for human rogues/warriors here, being that this is the more market for the nobility. Like with the Imperial Palace, we should have some missions showing the game, likely these quests could also take us to the palace.

 

Grand Cathedral: this is well the grand cathedral, the vatican of the chantry. Instead of addressing the chantry in the summer bazaar as we did, it should have been here. Furthermore, I think some more religious Inquistors should have the opition of doing a few more things here to help the chantry and the people's faith in it. Both Cassandra and Lellianna should have a mission here, I mean they served the previous divine. 

 

White Spire: This is the main mage tower in Val Royeaux and the templar's stronghold. This place should be a major area for the mage-templar war. After recruiting your faction, you should work on helping them here. You should see the horror of war here, with both mages and templars killed in this fighting. Cole in particular should have his quest here with the templar, after all this was where the real cole died. Viveienne should have a role to play here, especially if you are pushing her to take over the circle of mages. Also if you have allied with the templars and made Ser Barris the leader of the templars, that cermony should take place here and you should also see him here. Same thing with the mages, though one would have the opition of placing someone in charge of the mages if desired(such as Rhys or Vivienne herself). Human Mage inquistors should have something here to do that is unique for them. 

 

The imperial Palace: This is the heart of the empire. Here you should be able to see the coronation of Gaspard if you choose him, or see empress Celiene make a speeche. This is the one of the main areas of the orlaisian 'game' and the quests here should reflect that. Naturally a perfect place for Josephine. 

 

The University of Orlais: One of the major centers of learning. Also one of the focuses of Empress Celine's progress. You should get students and falcuty here to comment on their thoughts about it being opened up to commoners and even elves. Some might like it, some might detest it.

 

The alianage: I mentioned a few of my thoughts above. Furthermore this should have something for both an elven inquistor and Solas

 

The Academie des Chevaliers: This is the military compound for the Cheviliers. If you recurit Michel de Chevrin he should be here. This should be the place for gaspard's main supporters. 

 

Seeker of Truth HQ: Cassandra can become the leader of the seekers and we never see their HQ. Instead of doing her quest in that random ass castle, which I do admit looked nice, it should have been done here. 

 

Avenue of the Sun: This is a main throughfare through the city, here we should see normal orlaisians, ie not gentry or city elves. We should see how the civil war effects their lives. We should have a number of quest dealing with them.  This would be a great place for Sera and Bull to shine with their own little quest. I would also have something here for the dwarven and Qunari inquistors. 

 

The sun and night gates: Yes gates, minor until you read the descriptions which are just awesome. The gates of the sun are said to be able to blind armies that threaten its walls. The night gates are more common. Show that

 

Grande Royeaux Theater: This is the imperial theatere, we hear that Celine is supporting the arts so this is a good place to show that. Also assasinations and the like, as this is another area that bards like Lellainna would have some interesting things to do. 

 

 

This was just a bunch of ideas off the top of my head, but the point is for most compainons, advisors and agents we could have something dealing with things in the capital. Val Royeaux could have been awesome, shown glory of Orlais and its dark-side. 

 

Bioware should take notes on how to portray a war from Witcher 3.

 

I'm genuine right now. 

Yea, they really got that down right. I never really felt like the civil war or the mage-templar war was really going on in comparison. 

[SofaJockey]

... I am really curious about Cyberpunk 2077. ...

 

Neither Cyberpunk not Mass Effect: Next have advertised launch windows.

Wouldn't it be funny if they launched at about the same time? 

 

That said, I can handle 2 genre games on the trot - DAI then TW3 has been fine  .

[AresKeith]

Yea, they really got that down right. I never really felt like the civil war or the mage-templar war was really going on in comparison. 

 

The Civil War I agree, but the mage-templar war atleast had people fighting each other

[Br3admax]

Not really. The Mage-Templar war wasn't even really going on, and the civil war in halted during the entirety of Inquisition. The Hinterlands has bandits in it, and Redcliffe isn't even undersiege. It does not look like any war is happening, even the one with the main antagonist. 

[Seraphim24]

Cyberpunk's setting will make Witcher look like a stroll in the park. That is one desperate, dangerous world. Plus, there's no literary adaptation with that IP, so the writers can run hog wild.

 

I think that's the problem personally, you have to have major balls (or um.. female.. somethings.. b/c gender equality) to kill off characters or take chances or do all the things that authors often do, whereas game designers are often just facilitating those things, they don't have to make the stand themselves.

 

Cyberpunk looked flashy but empty to me, to be quite brutally honest.

 

Cyberpunk is pretty much a distillation of ideas from the books of William Gibson and Phillip K. Dick, so I imagine they will serve as something of a launch pad for whatever the devs have in mind. There is also a huge amount of source material from the pen and paper RPG (Cyberpunk 2020) that the game is based on for them to draw from.

 

Someone told me this though but I have not read them so...

 

Err.....I meant more the WORLD being sexist.  Men and women can both be seen as warriors pretty equally in Dragon Age's world for just one quick example.

 

Well unless you are Qunari. Plus as someone else mentioned there are plenty of female warriors in TW3. Also, er the Lodge (all females) like rules half the known Witcher-verse so...

 

 

Outside of the Triss scene it kinda was bad, the women was naked but Geralt still had pants on

 

Yeah like the women was naked but Geralt still had his pants on? Oh ok, well, that just summarized the entirety of all of sexism and misogyny and everything in the universe now makes sense now. That's pretty much what all those reviews amounted to as far as their criticism goes, it's like so and so's shirt was unbuttoned.....

 

...........yeah.....and? Like, what about I don't know the characters/stories/plots/quests/rewards/themes/ending/choices/mythology/setting/context/coloring/point/direction?

 

I mean do 98% of the people in this thread know who Francesa Findebair is? Or Síle de Tansarville? Or what about Grace from DA2? (A pretty solid female character).

 

Nope it's just well Geralt had his pants on, but pants off then MISOGYNYyyyyyyyy.......

[AresKeith]

Not really. The Mage-Templar war wasn't even really going on, and the civil war in halted during the entirety of Inquisition. The Hinterlands has bandits in it, and Redcliffe isn't even undersiege. It does not look like any war is happening, even the one with the main antagonist. 

 

I know the war itself wasn't raelly going on, I was commenting on that it atleast had both rebel templars and mages caught up in a skirmish a couple of times