15897 réponses à ce sujet

[SnakeCode]

There are a lot of things that can happen in a all around disgusting relationship. I remember reading you had someone cheat on you before -- What I got from this quest was that both people were severely abusive toward each other. Negativity feeds off other negativity. I've been cheated on too, and the result of that was I feel paranoid of everyone I'm befriended to. Started with drinking for him maybe, and then insecurity, physical violence, and what have you. I don't consider that 'evil', I consider him a human that had mostly negative dealings. 

 

But it's just my opinion.

 

Yup. It's also made clear that the Baron's wife mentally abused him every chance she got. As he said, in happier times she was there to patch him up when he was at his lowest (defeat in battle etc) and thus knew exactly where to prod to make him hurt. The whole relationship was rotten to the core, with the abuse going both ways. Geralt can even make a remark about this, saying "sounds like you two deserved each other."

[TheOgre]

Is it worth noting that the first time he hit her was when she was attempting to murder him with a knife? 

 

Self defense sometimes leads to a physical abuse relationship sadly

[Steelcan]

Haven't played the games, but I seriously doubt I would be impressed with him or the writing in general given what I've heard. Hence having not played the games.

Perhaps I'll pick them up in a few years for dirt cheap.

not enough heroism?

 

too many anti-heroes and shades of grey?

[Steelcan]

Wait, Witcher 3 tries to sell this person as being just morally grey? 

 

Not really, he's a scumbag and gets called out on it, that doesn't mean he can't have sympathetic aspects, and his wife is no innocent victim

[Trikormadenadon]

Not really, he's a scumbag and gets called out on it, that doesn't mean he can't have sympathetic aspects, and his wife is no innocent victim

A scumbag with some sympathetic qualities...that's what a it means to be a grey character no? That's what it means to me at any rate. (The reverse applies also, a hero with dark qualities).

 

EDIT: Either way, the baron is neither good nor evil so therefore he is a grey character.

[o Ventus]

A scumbag with some sympathetic qualities...that's what a it means to be a grey character no? That's what it means to me at any rate. (The reverse applies also, a hero with dark qualities).

 

EDIT: Either way, the baron is neither good nor evil so therefore he is a grey character.

 

I would argue that "grey" simply means that the character has both positive and negative traits to their personality. Sympathy doesn't factor into it. I haven't played TW3, but from what I've read here, the Baron seems about as "grey" as Caesar's Legion from Fallout: New Vegas. Which is to say he doesn't sound very grey at all, he just sounds like an obnoxious and violent ***hole with no redeeming qualities.

[Trikormadenadon]

Wait, Witcher 3 tries to sell this person as being just morally grey? 

In Exile's description of events in the game is almost entirely false. Ignore it.

 

The baron did not almost beat his wife to death.

The wife enlisted some evil witches to abort her child. the baron didn't cause the miscarriage.

 

The baron did have issues with his wife (who is not innocent either by the way, first time he hit her was when she tried to kill him with a knife after all...) and yes he beat her when  he got drunk.

He is most definitely a grey character.

[Steelcan]

I would argue that "grey" simply means that the character has both positive and negative traits to their personality. Sympathy doesn't factor into it. I haven't played TW3, but from what I've read here, the Baron seems about as "grey" as Caesar's Legion from Fallout: New Vegas. Which is to say he doesn't sound very grey at all, he just sounds like an obnoxious and violent ***hole with no redeeming qualities.

then you'd be wrong, he genuinely does feel remorse over what he's done and does his best to make amends for his mistakes

 

nor is he malicious and cruel

[Trikormadenadon]

I would argue that "grey" simply means that the character has both positive and negative traits to their personality. Sympathy doesn't factor into it. I haven't played TW3, but from what I've read here, the Baron seems about as "grey" as Caesar's Legion from Fallout: New Vegas. Which is to say he doesn't sound very grey at all, he just sounds like an obnoxious and violent ***hole with no redeeming qualities.

You must be assuming In exile is telling the truth, which he isn't by the way. The only thing In exile says that is true about that quest line is that the baron beat his wife and he set fire to a barn. Almost everything else he says is either head- cannon or just flat out false.

 

EDIT: See some of my previous posts for a more detailed explanation of what In Exile was incorrect about.

[In Exile]

There's been a lot posted so I'll try to collate a response do everyone justice. I will say that I'm a bit uncomfortable with the idea the Baron is sympathetic. Even if you disagree with me on the magnitude of what he did wrong, actual sympathy? That's not something I can wrap my head around but I guess it's a YMMV.

I will say this: regardless of our assessment the quest is phenomenal. It has a lot of varied and branching content, it ties in generally with the other narrative arcs in the area, and it atrmepts to address an IRL issue in a setting appriate way without veering into IRL hotspots per set. It may change as I now track down the two missing women but I think Bioware should consider quests of this nature in DA4/

[KBomb]

Know what I find amusing? Before this game was out, in this very thread, people were saying, "How can you judge this game? You haven't even played it yet!"

Now, I see a lot of people judging this game without even touching it.

[herkles]

The one thing I do enjoy about the Baron's quest regardless of what you think of the man himself is how the quest doesn't reveal everything about what is going up front. they reveal it slowly as geralt learns more from different people and what not. 

[Trikormadenadon]

The one thing I do enjoy about the Baron's quest regardless of what you think of the man himself is how the quest doesn't reveal everything about what is going up front. they reveal it slowly as geralt learns more from different people and what not. 

And to take your idea one step further and to tie it back into the purpose of this thread...

 

This quest line about the Bloody Baron is both part main quest and part side quest. You find out what you need to move on with the main story before the quest line is completed so you never have to finish it. Thus it can be used as an example of how to use side quests to tie in perfectly with main quests. A lesson BioWare can use for future DA games.

 

Edited for grammar.

[Seraphim24]

I'd rather make the stats way more compex and eliminate any and all action elements.

DA's best combat was in DAO, and nothing in TW seems to offer anything like that level of variety. But then, Geralt is a single character with an established fighting style.

At this point, I honestly question why I ever thought might like The Witcher. I'd much rather have a blank slate protagonist who can be anything to a fixed protagonist whose core charateristics are pre-written.

 

That's just League of Legends, which still reduces down to an action game. All stat games become an action games ultimately, it's just then it becomes a very frigid one because you spent so little time on it and all your energy on stats. DA:O was probably slightly less complex than TW by virtue of all the tank and healing abilities being passives that you stack together and just have them auto-cast according to a set list basically.

 

The only abilities you had to micro were mage abilities, and even then only CC abilities such as crushing prison, heck you could beat the entire game just correctly using crushing prison and kiting. Whole specializations and trees were completely useless (shapeshifting, etc). It's not variety of half the things don't work. TW2 doesn't have the same amount of variety but everything that exists has a purpose.

 

As someone else was saying DA:O was a shadow of the Infinity Engine games.

 

So we've gone from 'You don't criticise DAI ever' to 'You don't criticise DAI in the right kinds of ways.' You can't just keep shifting the goalposts. You also shouldn't put words in other people's mouths. If I didn't say the main story was perfect, then I didn't say it. I did enjoy it and the characters far more than Witcher 3's main story so far, which is what I said.

 

Also, what frame rate thing?

 

I just said you didn't criticize the substantial and critical elements of DA:I, which I'd say is fair to say.

[o Ventus]

That's just League of Legends, which still reduces down to an action game. All stat games become an action games ultimately, it's just then it becomes a very frigid one because you spent so little time on it and all your energy on stats.

wat

[Seraphim24]

wat

 

It has a tank/healing/dps format at it's core, it was borrowed from Dota which is borrowed from WC3 which is borrowed from D&D which is the same RPG used in DA:O. There's like one dedicated healer if I'm not mistaken which means it's mostly dps on dps, there aren't really any tanks (or a few maybe?), either way it's the same trinity system, but many of the tanking/healing abilities are just rolled into dps classes.

 

Burst, damage reduction, healing, it's all reducible to a number ultimately, you just are operating a super high number of commands and variables to get to that point.

 

If a character is best as a crit build you just get all the crit items, stack the crit along with a speed boots or whatever else, and then you add up your own damage burst and steady possibilities and compare that to the opposing person's defense and possible healing or damage reduction capabilities and in an instant, you basically just have a chunk of the person's health bar off, but what determines when that happens? It's whether you hit them which is whether you are in range and whether you click on them at the appropriate time (similar to an action game). You might as well just eliminate all those variables and have the swing of the sword which does the portion of a health bar.

 

Damage over time, direct damage, AE damage, or spot healing, burst healing, triggered heals, execution moves, all of these things can be compressed into simple health bar slices ultimately.

 

Everything reduces down to a human action of attacking defending dodging, or position, that's why competitive FPS has been popular forever.

[o Ventus]

It has a tank/healing/dps format at it's core, it was borrowed from Dota which is borrowed from WC3 which is borrowed from D&D which is the same RPG used in DA:O. There's like one dedicated healer if I'm not mistaken which means it's mostly dps on dps, there aren't really any tanks (or a few maybe?), either way it's the same trinity system, but many of the tanking/healing abilities are just rolled into dps classes.

 

Burst, damage reduction, healing, it's all reducible to a number ultimately, you just are operating a super high number of commands and variables to get to that point.

 

If a character is best as a crit build you just get all the crit items, stack the crit along with a speed boots or whatever else, and then you add up your own damage burst and steady possibilities and compare that to the opposing person's defense and possible healing or damage reduction capabilities and in an instant, you basically just have a chunk of the person's health bar off, but what determines when that happens? It's whether you hit them which is whether you are in range and whether you click on them at the appropriate time (similar to an action game). You might as well just eliminate all those variables and have the swing of the sword which does the portion of a health bar.

 

Everything reduces down to a human action of attacking defending dodging, or position, that's why competitive FPS has been popular forever.

 

Warcraft 3 is a real-time strategy game, not an RPG.

 

Also, if you have to write a paragraph detailing all of the different variable in LoL's combat, then it isn't just an action game. When you go into detail about how you can build each character, what class that character is, and where they are best suited to be on the map and to what role they should play, it no longer "reduces down to a human action of attacking defending dodging, or position [sic]". No game that involves playing as different kits with different abilities, purchasing different items to augment those different abilities, will ever boil down to just attacking, defending, and dodging. Being able to effectively build your champion is 1/3 the skill when it comes to playing LoL (the other 2/3 being management of the map and the actual combat).

[Seraphim24]

Warcraft 3 is a real-time strategy game, not an RPG.

 

Also, if you have to write a paragraph detailing all of the different variable in LoL's combat, then it isn't just an action game. When you go into detail about how you can build each character, what class that character is, and where they are best suited to be on the map and to what role they should play, it no longer "reduces down to a human action of attacking defending dodging, or position [sic]". No game that involves playing as different kits with different abilities, purchasing different items to augment those different abilities, will ever boil down to just attacking, defending, and dodging. Being able to effectively build your champion is 1/3 the skill when it comes to playing LoL (the other 2/3 being management of the map and the actual combat).

 

Well, I wanted to show I knew there were all these other things, but honestly 99% of the time it's about max burst damage which is simply stacking all synergy based passives (and playing the most currently OP character) which means all that other stuff is pretty much fluff.

 

See that was one sentence haha.

 

WC3 is an RTS/RPG hybrid.

 

You can apply that to any DA game also, max burst damage by stacking all passives with synergy, same results. Or you add in the wrinkle of adding all passive defense bonus as a tank or healing as a healer, like oh really I'm going to upgrade from shield barrier to shield wall or whatever it was, what else are you going to do, you know?

 

If I want to beat any DA game quickly, I just look for all the abilities that stack defense and grab them all for the tank, all the abilities that stack offense for the DPS, and all the abilities that synergize healing for the healer, then I put on the appropriate gambit and watch them auto-cast 98% of their abilities.

 

For example you couldn't cast fireball in BG like you can in DA:O or something because it will wipe out your entire team, innocent civilians, there were a host of other variables that made micro more important.

[Sylvius the Mad]

That's just League of Legends, which still reduces down to an action game.

Only games that are necessarily played in real-time have necessary action components. A heavily stat-driven turn-based game (like Wasteland 2) never gets reduced to an action game.

[o Ventus]

 

WC3 is an RTS/RPG hybrid.

 

Warcraft 3 most certainly is not an RTS/RPG hybrid, it's an RTS. The only elements even remotely RPG-like in that game are the upgrades for the standard units and the upgrades for the hero units (the former of which is standard fare for most every RTS to ever exist, while the latter is standard for every Blizzard RTS since Warcraft 2: Beyond the Dark Portal).

[Joseph Warrick]

then you'd be wrong, he genuinely does feel remorse over what he's done and does his best to make amends for his mistakes

 

nor is he malicious and cruel

 

He's not cruel, he just beats his wife

 

If he kicked the dog, now that would be an issue

[Trikormadenadon]

He's not cruel, he just beats his wife

 

If he kicked the dog, now that would be an issue

It sounds like you are trying to be sarcastic but in reality you are correct because there is a whole lot more to their relationship than the baron beating his wife.

 

The wife had an affair for years while the baron was off to war, the wife tried to kill the baron with a knife (which is what triggered the first beating) yet he still loves her, it's just a messed up marriage between two messed up people.

[herkles]

what did people think of the crones when you encountered them?

[Trikormadenadon]

what did people think of the crones when you encountered them?

Personally I thought it was an interesting allusion to the Fates from (I think) Greek Mythology. (Being evil instead of neutral is a nice twist) I have not finished the game but at the end of the Bloody Baron quest line I have the impression there will be more to see of them which I am looking forward to resolving.

[Hazegurl]

It sounds like you are trying to be sarcastic but in reality you are correct because there is a whole lot more to their relationship than the baron beating his wife.

 

The wife had an affair for years while the baron was off to war, the wife tried to kill the baron with a knife (which is what triggered the first beating) yet he still loves her, it's just a messed up marriage between two messed up people.

I think what a lot of people don't know or don't want to know is that the abusive relationship between the Baron and his wife is a fairly common one among domestic violence relationships. 

 

It reminds me of a woman who founded a domestic violence shelter for women which spread to many areas.  She began conducting research on the victims who had entered her shelters and discovered that over 60% of the women there were also abusers.  When she tried to make the research known militant feminists issued death threats and tried to silence her. smh.

 

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Erin_Pizzey

 

what did people think of the crones when you encountered them?

They creeped me out before I even saw them.  The moment she touched the painting and the voices et al I wanted to get the heck out of there.  When they implied Geralt wanted to bang Ciri I just knew nothing was good about them.  But I also knew I couldn't trust that thing in the tree either.  That entire quest was just creepy, great atmosphere though.  I wouldn't mind it if CDPR made a horror game.